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"Fake Geek Girls"

This is a topic that comes up from time to time. My friend gave her thoughts on the concept here:

http://www.rpsteeves.com/2013/01/guest-blog-geek-girl-on-geek-girls.html

What do you think?
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Comments

  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    It's a big pool, and everyone can have a swim. It's pretty easy to spot the "fakers" but who really cares? I come from a time where if you asked ANY girl to dress up like Power Girl you'd get slapped. :) Here's to progress!
  • tazmaniaktazmaniak Posts: 733
    edited January 2013
    Even before clicking on the article, I knew it was going to target Olivia Munn. She seems to be people's preferred target regarding this discussion.
  • ChrisMurrinChrisMurrin Posts: 256
    edited January 2013
    At a con, if any of you spot any "fake" geeks, male or female, by all means please direct them to whatever booth I'm working, as I'll be glad to talk to them about anything they like, and added foot traffic can only attract attention and help sell books. All are welcome.
  • KrescanKrescan Posts: 623
    so i can dig through a dollar bin trying to finish up my thunderbolts run on the cheap while spandex'd girls wander in and out of my line of site......plus they are fake so they are NOT interested in finding said thunderbolts before I do?

    Yeah I don't want anything to do with that. :D
  • I think that other women's motivations for showing up at any convention are their own business, and the only thing they or any other woman, including myself, owes anyone for being allowed inside of said convention is the price of the ticket.
  • I find it interesting how people who are commenting (here and on FB) are all looking to put their own particular spin on the topic, looking at it from their own very specific PoV
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    edited January 2013
    How to find out where you stand:

    A girl, late teens to mid-20s, is talking about how she's "Such a Dr. Who geek. OMG, Eccleston was really good as the first doctor, but Tennant was SO much hotter."

    Possible reactions:
    a) "That's really cool. Did you know Dr. Who's been around a LOT longer than that? You might enjoy checking out some of the early stuff. It's not as slick as the newer stuff, but there's a definite charm to it."

    b) "*snort derisively* Shows what you know. Tom Baker...the FOURTH doctor I might add, was the best doctor. Eccleston was the ninth! Come back when you've done your homework little girl."

    c) "Whore! Begone from my sight! You have no claim to the mantle of 'geek' and all the benefits that it may bestow upon those of us who have EARNED the title."

    d) Insert your own here.

    Which of the following will help create more Dr. Who fans and keep the show you love in production?
  • kfreemankfreeman Posts: 314
    The only thing that bugs me is when they clog up the aisles at cons for photos.
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794

    I find it interesting how people who are commenting (here and on FB) are all looking to put their own particular spin on the topic, looking at it from their own very specific PoV

    Well, I think you're gonna get that because it's a much more comfortable time to be an individual and not conform to groupthink like it was in "the good ol' days" :)

    When I was growing up (and I'm talking through high school), it wasn't a cool thing to be called a "geek". Your obsessive love of Robotech, Dr. Who, or any Devo song outside of "Whip It" did not earn you popularity points, get you that dream date with the cool girl in the row in front of you, or garner the respect of the football team. It wasn't a badge of honor, it was a mantle of derision and shame. You spent your life up to that point defending it with bloody noses or hiding in the library when you could.

    So I get where the "ire" comes from. Really, I do. As the old Smiths song goes "You just haven't earned it yet, baby." Dues have not been paid by this new crop of "geeks". It's like giving yourself a nickname. It doesn't work that way. You can't pronounce yourself a geek...it has to be recognized by those around you.

    Such thinking, though, is counter-productive. Instead of hating on these people, why not be happy a culture exists where grown men can watch My Little Pony? Or that the names John Pertwee and Peter Davison mean nothing to girls, but they know a Dalek from a Weeping Angel? I'm sure the bullying continues, but I like to believe there's less of a stigma and yes, fear, attached to people pursuing their geeky pursuits as there was in my day.

    Now get off my lawn! :)



  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,881
    edited January 2013
    Torchsong said:

    I find it interesting how people who are commenting (here and on FB) are all looking to put their own particular spin on the topic, looking at it from their own very specific PoV

    Well, I think you're gonna get that because it's a much more comfortable time to be an individual and not conform to groupthink like it was in "the good ol' days" :)

    When I was growing up (and I'm talking through high school), it wasn't a cool thing to be called a "geek". Your obsessive love of Robotech, Dr. Who, or any Devo song outside of "Whip It" did not earn you popularity points, get you that dream date with the cool girl in the row in front of you, or garner the respect of the football team. It wasn't a badge of honor, it was a mantle of derision and shame. You spent your life up to that point defending it with bloody noses or hiding in the library when you could.

    So I get where the "ire" comes from. Really, I do. As the old Smiths song goes "You just haven't earned it yet, baby." Dues have not been paid by this new crop of "geeks". It's like giving yourself a nickname. It doesn't work that way. You can't pronounce yourself a geek...it has to be recognized by those around you.

    Such thinking, though, is counter-productive. Instead of hating on these people, why not be happy a culture exists where grown men can watch My Little Pony? Or that the names John Pertwee and Peter Davison mean nothing to girls, but they know a Dalek from a Weeping Angel? I'm sure the bullying continues, but I like to believe there's less of a stigma and yes, fear, attached to people pursuing their geeky pursuits as there was in my day.

    Now get off my lawn! :)



    Al. You are a grown man watching My Little Pony. I won't let the culture fool you into thinking that isn't a little kinky. There can be such a thing as too much acceptance. I say this as a friend.

    ( ;) Sorry. Now back to the discussion)
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    David_D said:


    Al. You are a grown man watching My Little Pony. I won't let the culture fool you into thinking that isn't a little kinky. There can be such a thing as too much acceptance. I say this as a friend.

    (Sorry. Now back to the discussion)

    We are legion. #1 selling comic of last year*. Watch your mouth or you'll find yourself banished by Princess Celestia to the moon.

    If you'd only join us you'd know what that joke was in the last sentence.


    * No I can't verify that fact but it did sell out its first printing.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,881
    Torchsong said:

    David_D said:


    Al. You are a grown man watching My Little Pony. I won't let the culture fool you into thinking that isn't a little kinky. There can be such a thing as too much acceptance. I say this as a friend.

    (Sorry. Now back to the discussion)

    We are legion. #1 selling comic of last year*. Watch your mouth or you'll find yourself banished by Princess Celestia to the moon.
    If you'd only join us
    you'd know what that joke was in the last sentence.


    * No I can't verify that fact but it did sell out its first printing.
    See? Kinky.
  • Torchsong said:

    How to find out where you stand:

    A girl, late teens to mid-20s, is talking about how she's "Such a Dr. Who geek. OMG, Eccleston was really good as the first doctor, but Tennant was SO much hotter."

    Possible reactions:
    a) "That's really cool. Did you know Dr. Who's been around a LOT longer than that? You might enjoy checking out some of the early stuff. It's not as slick as the newer stuff, but there's a definite charm to it."

    b) "*snort derisively* Shows what you know. Tom Baker...the FOURTH doctor I might add, was the best doctor. Eccleston was the ninth! Come back when you've done your homework little girl."

    c) "Whore! Begone from my sight! You have no claim to the mantle of 'geek' and all the benefits that it may bestow upon those of us who have EARNED the title."

    d) Insert your own here.

    Which of the following will help create more Dr. Who fans and keep the show you love in production?

    Coolness! ::long conversation about the fate of Rose Tyler, Amy Pond and how much all of us hated Donna and wish SHE would have shunted off to an alternate dimension forever::

    Fake, real, it's all a silly matter of degrees. They care enough to go to a convention, and for those selling there, they are potential customers. Why waste mental energy on who is a "true fan"? I don't give a damn if the only thing they know about Spider-Man is that he rides a skateboard, they are in the house, let's welcome them in.
  • Torchsong said:

    How to find out where you stand:

    A girl, late teens to mid-20s, is talking about how she's "Such a Dr. Who geek. OMG, Eccleston was really good as the first doctor, but Tennant was SO much hotter."

    d) Insert your own here.

    Admit that I've never seen more than five minutes of Dr. Who in my life. Beg for mercy from the initiated for being the "fake" geek that I clearly must be.

  • Fake, real, it's all a silly matter of degrees. They care enough to go to a convention, and for those selling there, they are potential customers. Why waste mental energy on who is a "true fan"? I don't give a damn if the only thing they know about Spider-Man is that he rides a skateboard, they are in the house, let's welcome them in.

    I totally agree, and it's a point I've been making about the Twilight fans for years, too. Everyone likes to mock them rather than make them feel welcomed into a scene that has a million other vampire stories that they may also enjoy. Rather than cultivating new fans, most folks prefer to ostracize others. Then they complain that no one reads comics anymore.

  • HexHex Posts: 944
    Group hug everyone!
  • This conversation is interesting, but doesn't really have anything to do with the content of the article I posted! I suppose the term itself is worthy of conversation, but I wish there had been more response to the points she made. Oh, well
  • LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803

    This conversation is interesting, but doesn't really have anything to do with the content of the article I posted! I suppose the term itself is worthy of conversation, but I wish there had been more response to the points she made. Oh, well

    I think she kinda contradicted herself by claiming that anyone with some small amount of love in the heart for aspects of geek culture is real enough, but then also saying that there are indeed fakers and we should hate them especially Olivia Munn. I think she undermines her point, and by trying to decide who is "real" and who isn't leads me to dismiss her opinions entirely.
  • I gave my first feedback in a kind, constructive way, but you want more? You are wrong when you set people up as absolute polaralities. Ho do YOU know someone's level of fandom, and more, why are you judging them? ANY fandom should be a welcoming open tent.

    And did Olivia Munn take your lunch money as a kid?

    As a con organizer, anything that brings new people in the door is a good thing.
  • dubbat138dubbat138 Posts: 3,200


    Fake, real, it's all a silly matter of degrees. They care enough to go to a convention, and for those selling there, they are potential customers. Why waste mental energy on who is a "true fan"? I don't give a damn if the only thing they know about Spider-Man is that he rides a skateboard, they are in the house, let's welcome them in.

    I totally agree, and it's a point I've been making about the Twilight fans for years, too. Everyone likes to mock them rather than make them feel welcomed into a scene that has a million other vampire stories that they may also enjoy. Rather than cultivating new fans, most folks prefer to ostracize others. Then they complain that no one reads comics anymore.

    I saw the same thing happening in the punk music scene back when bands like Green Day and Offspring hit it big. There was an influx of young teens starting to come to punk shows. And lots of the older people in the scene gave them so much shit for liking "Fake ass punk rock" most of these kids left and never came back. And without young people entering the scene it ended up dying off.

  • I find it really hard to take any article seriously that begins with the words "There are two kinds of." Add to that, an article about authenticity vs. Posers? Nah, son. I'd rather look look at the weird pony pics.
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    edited January 2013
    dubbat138 said:



    I saw the same thing happening in the punk music scene back when bands like Green Day and Offspring hit it big. There was an influx of young teens starting to come to punk shows. And lots of the older people in the scene gave them so much shit for liking "Fake ass punk rock" most of these kids left and never came back. And without young people entering the scene it ended up dying off.

    Went to a Henry Rollins gig a while back where he talked about attitudes and haters. He gave us a line or two that stuck with me: "It's all down to your perception when you want to hate on something. And it's more a reflection on you than the thing you're hating. Music today doesn't suck...YOU suck. Movies don't suck today...YOU suck."

    So let's take it one step more: Fake geeks don't suck... :)

  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,881
    edited January 2013
    Also, to echo some of the posts above, what is to be gained by exclusivity? It tends to go hand in hand with obscurity and then things dying off.

    It puts me in mind of the New York Comic Con. It seemed a real surprise to the organizers that there was SUCH an interest in that show, to the point that the first year was a fire marshal provoking, overcrowded mess. But. . . also a huge encouragement. A success and proof of concept that allowed them to have a bigger space and better organization the following year. And it has sustained and even grown since. And that has been a win for me as a New Yorker. There is a nearly San Diego class show I can get to with my metrocard.

    Now, sure, I'll bet a lot of the people attending would fit the label of "fake" to those who label. But who cares? Maybe this is how they get started. Maybe they spend money and support things as they play around with an identity, even temporarily. And simply by buying a pass they help this big show continue to exist.

    (Now, the grumpy with crowds me wish the cosplayers wouldn't clog the aisles or block booths for pictures, but that is not a matter of "real vs. fake", it is a matter of "considerate vs. selfish". . . and is really another matter. There are plenty of "real" geeks who are also inconsiderate).

    So, in short, if "fakeness" keeps the doors open, then great. Couldn't we all have been called poseurs at some point? Who cares?
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,881

    So, like others have said, once you start with "there are two groups", you're getting into generalities and stereotypes. There are actually a whole bunch of different groups of women who like some aspect of geek culture, from middle aged women like myself, who have been around geeky stuff for (gulp) a half century, to the girl who's basically gotten into certain things because her friends are into them, to women who blend the two together. But reading further, we learn that the groups are actually "girls I accept as geeks" and "girls I really don't like". It's hard to offer feedback on that, because that's really pretty subjective. And with all due respect to your friend, I don't think she can read minds, so her take on the "fakes" motivations seems to be a bit of projection and a lot of imagination on her part. And it all seems to be over something that really doesn't matter--who cares why some other woman thinks she's a geek? Who does it hurt? Not me.

    Well said. And, welcome aboard!
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