What happened to Dave Sim? Why'd he quit coming onto the show? I did a search on the forums and can't find any reason. I really enjoyed his podcast appearances.
After appearing on CGS, Dave re-engaged with the comic community at large to promote his new work
He was promptly pilloried by several folks who seemed to have been lying in wait just to pummel him with the "M-word".
He pretty much went back into seclusion after that.
However those of us who contributed to the "do something, digitize maybe?, High Society Kickstarter project" have been getting frequent, rambling e-mails from him ever since.
However those of us who contributed to the "do something, digitize maybe?, High Society Kickstarter project" have been getting frequent, rambling e-mails from him ever since.
Through the efforts of Indie Spinner Rack and fellow forumite Lenny, Dave was brought on the show to do a phonebook by phonebook breakdown of Cerebus. As WetRats said above, Dave was enjoying a new presence online and elsewhere (Glamourpuss was just hitting the stands - new work by Dave!) so yes, this did bring out the usual criticisms. Dave then sent out this form (http://momentofcerebus.blogspot.com/2012/01/please-consider-signing-petition.html) in order for people to continue corresponding/requesting for interviews and such.
That's what killed further appearances. While I may not agree with the loudest criticisms leveled on Dave Sim, I also didn't feel I had enough knowledge to make ANY decision. I didn't want to sign the petition just to insure further appearances without really truly understanding everything that went with it. That's not fair to Dave, that's not fair to the show. Perhaps some of the other guys may have felt differently at the time - we never really gave it much discussion. In any event, it was out of our hands by that point. Bryan even invited him to one of the past Super Shows but obviously he declined in a friendly manner.
Did I feel disappointed? You bet. Because of Dave's podcast appearances, I firmly believe a new audience was brought to Cerebus and his work. There was some talk of continuing the Cerebus Book of the Month Encores with Gerhard - Sim's on again off again collaborator - but I wasn't comfortable with that either. I didn't want Sim to think we were doing it just because we could no longer get Dave on the show.
Those were mad fun eps though. Dave was amazing with his time and his spirit. And I still think Cerebus is a benchmark in comics that all wannabe comic creators need to look at at some point.
I have four of the first five phone books because of CGS. I would never have even heard of Sims or Cerebus without the show. I am waiting for the 30th Anniversary Edition of High Society to come out so I can read that. It was solicited last august and DCBS told me this week it is still not due to be released until 29 May....ugh.
I have four of the first five phone books because of CGS. I would never have even heard of Sims or Cerebus without the show. I am waiting for the 30th Anniversary Edition of High Society to come out so I can read that. It was solicited last august and DCBS told me this week it is still not due to be released until 29 May....ugh.
Murphy has jumped up and down all over that project.
Did I feel disappointed? You bet. Because of Dave's podcast appearances, I firmly believe a new audience was brought to Cerebus and his work. There was some talk of continuing the Cerebus Book of the Month Encores with Gerhard - Sim's on again off again collaborator - but I wasn't comfortable with that either. I didn't want Sim to think we were doing it just because we could no longer get Dave on the show.
I'm sure I have said this on some past iteration of the CGS Forums, but I love the Cerebus episodes. I bought 1-9 because of them. Having Dave on the show was an absolute highlight of CGS. Those are great episodes
I would love to finish reading Cerebus. It's a series that I've collected since issue no. 114 (I picked up the earlier issues I picked up in trade format). My problem is, it's one of those series I can only read so much of before I need to exhale. Unfortunately, my last exhale (got as far as Church and State) was so long ago that I've decided to start over. The folks over at the Infinite Longbox podcast (a good podcast for those of you who are looking for a spoiler-filled review show that spotlights each week's batch of comics, as well as past reads) started to review each phone-book, but so far they've only reviewed the first one.
Has Glamourpuss ever been traded, and if not will it be? That's a title I bought for a while and thoroughly enjoyed, but then I lost my job, and had to give up comics for a few months, and by the time I was in a position to buy comics again, it was one of those series that I just decided to pick up the trade.
That's what killed further appearances. While I may not agree with the loudest criticisms leveled on Dave Sim, I also didn't feel I had enough knowledge to make ANY decision. I didn't want to sign the petition just to insure further appearances without really truly understanding everything that went with it. That's not fair to Dave, that's not fair to the show. Perhaps some of the other guys may have felt differently at the time - we never really gave it much discussion. In any event, it was out of our hands by that point. Bryan even invited him to one of the past Super Shows but obviously he declined in a friendly manner.
Did I feel disappointed? You bet. Because of Dave's podcast appearances, I firmly believe a new audience was brought to Cerebus and his work. There was some talk of continuing the Cerebus Book of the Month Encores with Gerhard - Sim's on again off again collaborator - but I wasn't comfortable with that either. I didn't want Sim to think we were doing it just because we could no longer get Dave on the show.
Those were mad fun eps though. Dave was amazing with his time and his spirit. And I still think Cerebus is a benchmark in comics that all wannabe comic creators need to look at at some point.
I agree with your praise for Dave and his work, but I also agree with your decision not to sign his petition. That's kind of an odd thing to ask of anyone, and in doing so he essentially sets the stage for one-sided interviews. Now, I've read the piece in Cerebus no. 186 that spawned this whole controversy. In fact, Dave and Gehrard both autographed my copy. Of course they did so long before the shit hit the fan - so to speak, for I doubt Dave would be willing to sign that issue today. Dave wrote commentary in that issue that I don't agree with and I can certainly relate to why they would be construed as misogynistic. However, the word "misogynistic" implies a hatred of women, and in his defense I'm not sure it's fair to classify Dave's views as outright "hatred". The bottom line is he wrote what he did, and the words he wrote outraged a large number of people. If Dave doesn't feel his words impart a hatred toward women, then he either needs to defend those words or be willing to accept the fact that they pissed off a lot of people. Asking those who seek an audience with him to formerly declare their allegiance and giving Dave permission to then post that declaration for everyone to see effectively taints the interview, and it certainly won't change how his writings were already interpreted. I would hope Dave is capable of realizing that not everyone who wishes to hear his thoughts are doing so because all they are interested in is his views on women (or his defending of such views). I think the CGS Cerebus review he partook in is a prime example. I would love for the CGS Cerebus review series to continue, but I wholeheartedly back CGS's decision to decline signing Dave's petition.
I find it sad that while Bill Willingham has been forgiven for the controversial statements he made over 20 years ago, Dave Sim seems to be forever damned for his.
I find it sad that while Bill Willingham has been forgiven for the controversial statements he made over 20 years ago, Dave Sim seems to be forever damned for his.
In my experience, the manner in which someone responds to their accusers can be instrumental in quelling the controversy, or conversely perpetuating it. By requesting people formally declare their allegiance to him, Dave is fueling the very fire he's trying to flee from.
Always good to see some Dave Sim talk. Cerebus ties with Love and Rockets as my all time favourite comic. Mr Sim has been busy of late, producing alternative covers for IDW on such diverse titles as Popye, Dr Who, and Judge Dredd(!!!). http://www.momentofcerebus.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/IDW Covers
Sim's words are also forever published in that comic. While other creators say dumb things on the Internet their words go unnoticed by the vast majority of their fans. You can enjoy Byrne's comics and never know about the stuff he says on his forum. However, people who discover Cerebus will inevitably stumble across his infamous words.
I find it sad that while Bill Willingham has been forgiven for the controversial statements he made over 20 years ago, Dave Sim seems to be forever damned for his.
It's because Sim made it an integral part of the story he was telling. By the time he got to issue 200, every woman in the comic was a soul sucking evil bitch who killed the lives of everyone around them. He would give interviews that were impossible to get through unless you had just gone through a brutal divorce and he had yet to say he was anything other than dead on. He pissed off his female editor/proofreader, a woman known in the industry for being not just a great editor, but accepting of a LOT of creator craziness.
The only beef I ever had with Willingham was his inability to finish a story he started, so I am unaware of any batshit statement he made, but if you read Cerebus, issue 186 marks when the book started a massive downward slide from brilliant must-read to "dave is still pissed about his divorce.":
BTW: "Dave's pissed about his divorce" is a gross oversimplification. He had a spiritual crisis as much a result of his behavior after his divorce as the divorce (and the weird, ugly marriage/relationship that preceded it) itself. He was comics' first real rock star creator, and he has put that aside to essentially become a monk.
Willingham's statement is offensive, and was even offensive in 1989 when it was made. But as someone who worked in a wide variety of office environments while temping in the '90s, I still heard variations of that phrase in use, by both whites and blacks, on more than one occasion. For example, someone telling someone to do something, and they would respond "Hey, I'm not your _____-N-word." Typically, this came from the cruder people in the office, but they still felt comfortable enough to say it, and everyone else would cringe when they did. Which is kind of how I reacted to Willingham's statement.
Zabbah
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He was promptly pilloried by several folks who seemed to have been lying in wait just to pummel him with the "M-word".
He pretty much went back into seclusion after that.
However those of us who contributed to the "do something, digitize maybe?, High Society Kickstarter project" have been getting frequent, rambling e-mails from him ever since.
That's what killed further appearances. While I may not agree with the loudest criticisms leveled on Dave Sim, I also didn't feel I had enough knowledge to make ANY decision. I didn't want to sign the petition just to insure further appearances without really truly understanding everything that went with it. That's not fair to Dave, that's not fair to the show. Perhaps some of the other guys may have felt differently at the time - we never really gave it much discussion. In any event, it was out of our hands by that point. Bryan even invited him to one of the past Super Shows but obviously he declined in a friendly manner.
Did I feel disappointed? You bet. Because of Dave's podcast appearances, I firmly believe a new audience was brought to Cerebus and his work. There was some talk of continuing the Cerebus Book of the Month Encores with Gerhard - Sim's on again off again collaborator - but I wasn't comfortable with that either. I didn't want Sim to think we were doing it just because we could no longer get Dave on the show.
Those were mad fun eps though. Dave was amazing with his time and his spirit. And I still think Cerebus is a benchmark in comics that all wannabe comic creators need to look at at some point.
Yeah.
That was... uncomfortable.
Has Glamourpuss ever been traded, and if not will it be? That's a title I bought for a while and thoroughly enjoyed, but then I lost my job, and had to give up comics for a few months, and by the time I was in a position to buy comics again, it was one of those series that I just decided to pick up the trade. I agree with your praise for Dave and his work, but I also agree with your decision not to sign his petition. That's kind of an odd thing to ask of anyone, and in doing so he essentially sets the stage for one-sided interviews. Now, I've read the piece in Cerebus no. 186 that spawned this whole controversy. In fact, Dave and Gehrard both autographed my copy. Of course they did so long before the shit hit the fan - so to speak, for I doubt Dave would be willing to sign that issue today. Dave wrote commentary in that issue that I don't agree with and I can certainly relate to why they would be construed as misogynistic. However, the word "misogynistic" implies a hatred of women, and in his defense I'm not sure it's fair to classify Dave's views as outright "hatred". The bottom line is he wrote what he did, and the words he wrote outraged a large number of people. If Dave doesn't feel his words impart a hatred toward women, then he either needs to defend those words or be willing to accept the fact that they pissed off a lot of people. Asking those who seek an audience with him to formerly declare their allegiance and giving Dave permission to then post that declaration for everyone to see effectively taints the interview, and it certainly won't change how his writings were already interpreted. I would hope Dave is capable of realizing that not everyone who wishes to hear his thoughts are doing so because all they are interested in is his views on women (or his defending of such views). I think the CGS Cerebus review he partook in is a prime example. I would love for the CGS Cerebus review series to continue, but I wholeheartedly back CGS's decision to decline signing Dave's petition.
In my experience, the manner in which someone responds to their accusers can be instrumental in quelling the controversy, or conversely perpetuating it. By requesting people formally declare their allegiance to him, Dave is fueling the very fire he's trying to flee from.
Always good to see some Dave Sim talk. Cerebus ties with Love and Rockets as my all time favourite comic. Mr Sim has been busy of late, producing alternative covers for IDW on such diverse titles as Popye, Dr Who, and Judge Dredd(!!!). http://www.momentofcerebus.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/IDW Covers
The only beef I ever had with Willingham was his inability to finish a story he started, so I am unaware of any batshit statement he made, but if you read Cerebus, issue 186 marks when the book started a massive downward slide from brilliant must-read to "dave is still pissed about his divorce.":
That's an AWESOME cover - makes me want to get the comic.
BTW: "Dave's pissed about his divorce" is a gross oversimplification. He had a spiritual crisis as much a result of his behavior after his divorce as the divorce (and the weird, ugly marriage/relationship that preceded it) itself. He was comics' first real rock star creator, and he has put that aside to essentially become a monk.
I find that Willingham's modification of the N-word is in the same spirit. Now the way my brother-in-law uses the N-word -- that's offensive.
I KEED, I KEED!!