Marvel time travel and Age of Ultron - Now with AofU #10 SPOILERS

Maximara

The biggest flaw with Age of Ultron is it goes against the main way time travel works in the Marvel universe. Generally you can't change history with time travel. If your trip is not part of some time loop, the moment you arrive in the past you create an alternate universe (or you arrive in an alternate past--Marvel hasn't always been consistent on that) that has NO effect on your present. The only exceptions we have seen is insanely powerful beings and those have either been retconned (Age of Apocalypse reality became Earth-295) or forgotten (the whole TimeQuake saga in What #336-35)

Matt

The biggest flaw in Age of Ultron is the story itself! The alternate timeline bit can't exist because Joe Q said such a multiverse doesn't exist in the MU.

M

Mr_Cosmic

It's always been confusing. I've held to the theory that in the MU time travel creates alternate timelines, etc etc...

It also makes Kang the biggest dork in the MU. He travels here and there through time but never really changing anything..just creating a mess.

Maximara

Matt said:

The biggest flaw in Age of Ultron is the story itself! The alternate timeline bit can't exist because Joe Q said such a multiverse doesn't exist in the MU.

M

Considering that the Captain Britain comic, Excalibur Cross-Time Saga (Excalibur #13-24), and the aforementioned TimeQuake saga (What if... Vol 2 #35-38), House of M, and DOZENS of various other stories show such a multiverse existing in the MU Joe Q does NOT know WHAT he is talking about.

Maximara

Mr_Cosmic said:

It's always been confusing. I've held to the theory that in the MU time travel creates alternate timelines, etc etc...

It also makes Kang the biggest dork in the MU. He travels here and there through time but never really changing anything..just creating a mess.

Well to be fair to poor Kang Marvel writers have the same problem Pre-Crisis DCU writers have--they can't keep what are parallel universes and what are divergent timelines straight.

For instance, in House of M Rachel reveals that she has no alternates in the (presumably parallel universe) multiverse and yet we have seen alternate timelines that have a Rachel Summers with the Phoneix force.

So the question is is Kang going after alternate timelines or parallel universes that resemble alternate timelines? If the former then yes he is a dork but if the later...

dubbat138

Seems like the biggest flaw is letting Bendis write it. I know most people have enjoyed his work at Marvel. But I have only liked the first 20 or so issues of Alias.

Mr_Cosmic

Not to digress too far but I love his writing for on going titles...it's his "events" that I struggle with.

CaptShazam

I have not read the issues. I was tempted to buy the Age of Ultron Omnibus that was in the new solicitations. Thank you for helping me save some cash. I think I will skip this story.

Justin_TheBuck

dubbat138 said:

Seems like the biggest flaw is letting Bendis write it. I know most people have enjoyed his work at Marvel. But I have only liked the first 20 or so issues of Alias.

You aren't alone. I don't like him writing Marvel books. To me everyone seems to be a Spidy clone, personality wise.

I haven't read any of this title but I do like alternate timeline stories. Is the whole thing and alternate or just some of the issues? I'm still on the fence about picking it up when it its paperback.

Matt

I concur, Bendis writes a title better then events. I think with a title, he has his own "groceries" to use as he wants. When he writes events, Bendis needs to use the "groceries" of other writers. This causes continuity issues.

For example, Spider-man in AU is clearly Peter Parker, not "Peter Parker," clearly indicating this was written before the whole MarvelNOW! IF it wasn't, then Spidey is written differently from his own title.

Having said that, I've never been a fan of Bendis' writing style. In each title, he finds 1 character to write similar to Spider-man. I find his take on Spidey to be very annoying.

As for this event; skip the trade, google the key pages & read Wikipedia.

That's kind of like asking if now is now or now...or now now. The initial couple issues could be either the 616 timeline commonly known before this story or it could be a divergent timeline from the word go. After that, there's time leaping.

M

David_D

dubbat138 said:

Seems like the biggest flaw is letting Bendis write it. I know most people have enjoyed his work at Marvel. But I have only liked the first 20 or so issues of Alias.

While AofU has been a bummer, I have enjoyed a lot of Bendis' work. Indeed, apropos to this discussion, one of the best time travel stories I've ever read at Marvel is currently going on in Bendis' All New X-Men.

Hex

The biggest flaw in Age of Ultron is that the story is ANOTHER time travel/parallel universe storyline. Yawn. I'm soooooo tired of this crutch that Marvel constantly relies on to bail them out of committing to the "big changes" that the event promises.

I was very much looking forward to this event. I like Ultron, I think he is one of the greatest Avengers villains. 9 issues in and we have yet to even see the "real" Ultron!?!

Greg

Hex said:

I was very much looking forward to this event. I like Ultron, I think he is one of the greatest Avengers villains. 9 issues in and we have yet to even see the "real" Ultron!?!

That was my concern going in, but I've become okay with not having seen Ultron yet.

The story started out with Ultron already established as the victor and establishing himself as the world's ruler. I had to remind myself of other stories (whether they be books, comics, television or movies) with resistance fighters and how often we only see them fighting the enemy's minions or soldiers until the very end.

TheMarvelMan

Matt said:

The alternate timeline bit can't exist because Joe Q said such a multiverse doesn't exist in the MU.

Yeah, and he also said, "Dead is dead." And he said, "We've got too many mutants, so I'm thrilled that we found a way to get the number down to 198."

Now, characters that died during his tenure (e.g., Hawkeye) are back and mutants are proliferating once again. Pretty soon, Logan will have his stoggie back!

Chuck_Melville

TheMarvelMan said:

Matt said:

The alternate timeline bit can't exist because Joe Q said such a multiverse doesn't exist in the MU.

Yeah, and he also said, "Dead is dead." And he said, "We've got too many mutants, so I'm thrilled that we found a way to get the number down to 198."

Now, characters that died during his tenure (e.g., Hawkeye) are back and mutants are proliferating once again. Pretty soon, Logan will have his stoggie back!

Am I old enough to know what a 'stoggie' is?

DoctorDoom

Chuck_Melville said:

TheMarvelMan said:

Matt said:

The alternate timeline bit can't exist because Joe Q said such a multiverse doesn't exist in the MU.

Yeah, and he also said, "Dead is dead." And he said, "We've got too many mutants, so I'm thrilled that we found a way to get the number down to 198."

Now, characters that died during his tenure (e.g., Hawkeye) are back and mutants are proliferating once again. Pretty soon, Logan will have his stoggie back!

Am I old enough to know what a 'stoggie' is?

Cigar.

Maximara

Hex said:

The biggest flaw in Age of Ultron is that the story is ANOTHER time travel/parallel universe storyline. Yawn. I'm soooooo tired of this crutch that Marvel constantly relies on to bail them out of committing to the "big changes" that the event promises.

I agree. Instead of Days of Future Past we get Days of Future FUBAR where the future is such a hosed mess that its 'get time machine and hit the reset button' time.

At least it is not like DC who has reset their universe so many times that I doubt anybody readers or writers alike even know what is in continuity.

Maximara

TheMarvelMan said:

Matt said:

The alternate timeline bit can't exist because Joe Q said such a multiverse doesn't exist in the MU.

Yeah, and he also said, "Dead is dead." And he said, "We've got too many mutants, so I'm thrilled that we found a way to get the number down to 198."

Now, characters that died during his tenure (e.g., Hawkeye) are back and mutants are proliferating once again. Pretty soon, Logan will have his stoggie back!

The funny thing is during the whole "way to get the number down to 198" story Sir James Jaspers (Myxzpltk is a wimp) was brought back from the dead and merged with the Fury (Nimrod Sentinel is a wimp) though it appears it was only so he could be a plot device to trim the ranks of the Captain Britain corps a year later.

Chuck_Melville

DoctorDoom said:

Chuck_Melville said:

TheMarvelMan said:

Matt said:

The alternate timeline bit can't exist because Joe Q said such a multiverse doesn't exist in the MU.

Yeah, and he also said, "Dead is dead." And he said, "We've got too many mutants, so I'm thrilled that we found a way to get the number down to 198."

Now, characters that died during his tenure (e.g., Hawkeye) are back and mutants are proliferating once again. Pretty soon, Logan will have his stoggie back!

Am I old enough to know what a 'stoggie' is?

Cigar.

Ah!! A stogie! I know those.

Chuck_Melville

Hex said:

The biggest flaw in Age of Ultron is that the story is ANOTHER time travel/parallel universe storyline. Yawn. I'm soooooo tired of this crutch that Marvel constantly relies on to bail them out of committing to the "big changes" that the event promises.

I was very much looking forward to this event. I like Ultron, I think he is one of the greatest Avengers villains. 9 issues in and we have yet to even see the "real" Ultron!?!

Frankly, I don't see this in quite the same light as you. I think the story has been intriguing thus far. The idea of 'let's go back in time and fix the problem -- oops! That only made it worse! Let's fix that one now!' made for an interesting twist. And the fact that Ultron isn't directly present isn't really a minus either -- it's an interesting ploy considering how often he's been at the forefront. His distance in this gambit brings up the question of why he's working at a distance? Is it a simple matter of necessity, of needing to remain in the future while he directs his invasion, or has he a particular weakness at this time that he doesn't want to expose to the heroes?

I like the fact that the story keeps things (as well as the readers) off balance. The only complaint I do have is the amount of decompression involved in the story -- at times it works, but most of the time the pacing lags.

Matt

I know Angela is supposed to be crowbarred into the final issue, but does that really mean anything (besides to Marvel for appeasing to Gaiman & sticking it to McFarlane)?

M

Elsiebub

Chuck_Melville said:

And the fact that Ultron isn't directly present isn't really a minus either -- it's an interesting ploy considering how often he's been at the forefront. His distance in this gambit brings up the question of why he's working at a distance?

But do you actually expect Bendis to answer this question in any perceptible way?

So many times with Bendis event/Avengers comics, it seems like some story element will be missing, or there will be huge plot holes, or totally out-of-character moments. And fans try to defend this by saying "Bendis is just doing something different. Give it time." But then in the end as often as not the disjunctures are just left dangling and nothing is explained. After a while, personally, I've just taken to assuming "The glaring flaws in these comics don't mean that 'Bendis is planning something'; they mean that Bendis wrote all of this so fast that he didn't think about whether it made enough sense or not."

The event is called Age of Ultron. We're on issue 9 and we haven't seen Ultron yet. There's 1(ish) issue left. It's a Brian Bendis event comic. Chances that we'll actually see Ultron for at least more than a couple decompressed pages in the final issue? 50% Chances that Brian Bendis wrote this whole thing without even realizing that the actual title character didn't even appear in it? 50%.

Chuck_Melville

Elsiebub said:

Chuck_Melville said:

And the fact that Ultron isn't directly present isn't really a minus either -- it's an interesting ploy considering how often he's been at the forefront. His distance in this gambit brings up the question of why he's working at a distance?

But do you actually expect Bendis to answer this question in any perceptible way?

Beats me. I'm just along for the ride. So far, I'm enjoying it.

Elsiebub said:

The event is called Age of Ultron. We're on issue 9 and we haven't seen Ultron yet.

Sure we have. He's in the last panel of #9. Of course, it's Ultron-1, the original Ultron at his creation, but it's still Ultron.

The title is The Age Of Ultron, and that's what we're seeing: the Age in which he conquers and dominates. Nothing in that title is a guarantee that we will actually ever see him doing it in person. I hope we do see him, but I think folks have the wrong expectation based on the title.

WetRats

Matt said:

I know Angela is supposed to be crowbarred into the final issue, but does that really mean anything (besides to Marvel for appeasing to Gaiman & sticking it to McFarlane)?

M

An increase in the T&A quotient.

shroud68

Chuck_Melville said:

Elsiebub said:

Chuck_Melville said:

And the fact that Ultron isn't directly present isn't really a minus either -- it's an interesting ploy considering how often he's been at the forefront. His distance in this gambit brings up the question of why he's working at a distance?

But do you actually expect Bendis to answer this question in any perceptible way?

Beats me. I'm just along for the ride. So far, I'm enjoying it.

Elsiebub said:

The event is called Age of Ultron. We're on issue 9 and we haven't seen Ultron yet.

Sure we have. He's in the last panel of #9. Of course, it's Ultron-1, the original Ultron at his creation, but it's still Ultron.

The title is The Age Of Ultron, and that's what we're seeing: the Age in which he conquers and dominates. Nothing in that title is a guarantee that we will actually ever see him doing it in person. I hope we do see him, but I think folks have the wrong expectation based on the title.

I think that is ridiculous to say folks have the wrong expectation if we wanted to see Ultron in an event called Age of Ultron. That sounds like apologist bait and switch Bill Clinton BS. They released Bride of Ultron trade and a Free Comic Book Day book containing ........ Ultron in preparation for this event. This is a comic book event not Waiting For Godet. That comment is laughable and f"%king annoying.

Chuck_Melville

shroud68 said:

That comment is laughable and f"%king annoying.

Nevertheless, I do honestly believe that is, and has always been, the intent of the series -- that this event is about the event, and not specifically about the author of that event.

Hex

shroud68 said:

This is a comic book event not Waiting For Godet.

Hilarious! Nice one! Quote of the week!

I probably came across as a Curmudgeon in my earlier post. There are many things I am enjoying about this series. Exploring the nature of Hank Pym and just how bad-ass Ultron is (his over all "effect", even though we have yet to see much of him in person) are worthwhile. Things I am not enjoying; Wolverine, more Marvel time travel, and Bendis. Generally I have no problem with Bendis... but I think he has worn out his welcome (with me). A good example is all the hoopla around "his" Guardians of the Galaxy, while everything great about the title was developed earlier by Abnett & Lanning.

Maximara

All that time and we get an Ultron who looks like he fell out of a Flash Gordon serial. That design practically screams 1930's.

Greg

AoU #10 has been leaked, watch out for spoilers.

WetRats

Greg said:

AoU #10 has been leaked, watch out for spoilers.

And death rays. Always watch out for death rays.

Webhead

Greg said:

AoU #10 has been leaked, watch out for spoilers.

Thanks for the heads up