The Champions

mwhitt80

So we've joked around the forums about Marvel's oddest team book ever. But in this month's Back Issue (#65 available digitally for $3.95 at twomorrows, no DRM) we get the real answer to the question: Herc, Ghost Rider, Black Widow, Iceman, and Angel?
I don't want to ruin the Tony Isabella article, but here is the basic origin of the series. Tony wanted to write a buddy series that would be Route 66 meets the Odd Couple starring Angel and Iceman.
Len Wein and Marv Wolfman told him every team had to have five members (Wolfman was working on Fantastic Four at the time): a strong man, a woman, and a character with it's own title were required.

Hex

The Defenders were always an oddball group of misfits, but the Champions take the cake. Feels like the bullpen threw that line-up together by pulling their names out of a hat. Wish Marvel would bring these guys back... even for a 4 issue mini (Hell, I'll take a one-shot even). And get Byrne to draw it! It could be his triumphant return to Marvel!

Gotta love Back Issue.

mwhitt80

Issue 65 is all about B-Teams: Defenders, Champions, Doom Patrol, Titans West, Inhumans, etc.
It's one of my favorite issues of the year. Only $3.95 for the pdf

nweathington

mwhitt80 said:

Issue 65 is all about B-Teams: Defenders, Champions, Doom Patrol, Titans West, Inhumans, etc.
It's one of my favorite issues of the year. Only $3.95 for the pdf

Which can be found here.

Webhead

I loved the Champions and The Defenders

I love the quirkiness of The Defenders during the Steve Gerber run, they still are some of my favorite comics.

As for the Champions any team located in California got my immediate attention, even if it was So. Cal.

David_D

mwhitt80 said:

So we've joked around the forums about Marvel's oddest team book ever. But in this month's Back Issue (#65 available digitally for $3.95 at twomorrows, no DRM) we get the real answer to the question: Herc, Ghost Rider, Black Widow, Iceman, and Angel?
I don't want to ruin the Tony Isabella article, but here is the basic origin of the series. Tony wanted to write a buddy series that would be Route 66 meets the Odd Couple starring Angel and Iceman.
Len Wein and Marv Wolfman told him every team had to have five members (Wolfman was working on Fantastic Four at the time): a strong man, a woman, and a character with it's own title were required.

...Not to mention two accountants, of course.

mwhitt80

@David_D it's true.

I think they should re-team up the Champions and have them go on a Road Trip. Black Widow might need to get subbed out if she is busy in the Avengers or whatever. Marvel can bring in US Archer to drive if they want to go cosmic(after my mini reintroducing him to Marvel).

shroud68

The Champions were great B level stuff. They fought Swarm in a two parter that felt so damn epic to a little kid back in the day. That is a hardcover I'd like to see. Probably not going to but that series is worthy in my eyes.

JamieD

shroud68 said:

The Champions were great B level stuff. They fought Swarm in a two parter that felt so damn epic to a little kid back in the day. That is a hardcover I'd like to see. Probably not going to but that series is worthy in my eyes.

DUDE, Hercules punched out a Queen Bee. EPIC on so many levels

matchkitJOHN

Unfortunately bringing them back means they can't be the Champions since Marvel lost the name :(

DoctorDoom

Hex said:

The Defenders were always an oddball group of misfits, but the Champions take the cake. Feels like the bullpen threw that line-up together by pulling their names out of a hat. Wish Marvel would bring these guys back... even for a 4 issue mini (Hell, I'll take a one-shot even). And get Byrne to draw it! It could be his triumphant return to Marvel!

Gotta love Back Issue.

Hell yeah! (except for Byrne drawing it)

I have the Champions trades, and love them.

JamieD

DoctorDoom said:

Hex said:

The Defenders were always an oddball group of misfits, but the Champions take the cake. Feels like the bullpen threw that line-up together by pulling their names out of a hat. Wish Marvel would bring these guys back... even for a 4 issue mini (Hell, I'll take a one-shot even). And get Byrne to draw it! It could be his triumphant return to Marvel!

Gotta love Back Issue.

Hell yeah! (except for Byrne drawing it)

I have the Champions trades, and love them.

HEY....those are fightin words bub LOL

shroud68

DoctorDoom said:

Hex said:

The Defenders were always an oddball group of misfits, but the Champions take the cake. Feels like the bullpen threw that line-up together by pulling their names out of a hat. Wish Marvel would bring these guys back... even for a 4 issue mini (Hell, I'll take a one-shot even). And get Byrne to draw it! It could be his triumphant return to Marvel!

Gotta love Back Issue.

Hell yeah! (except for Byrne drawing it)

I have the Champions trades, and love them.

What did the trades cover? And that was early Bryne for Marvel so it did not reach the level of distraction that his late 80 early 90s work did.

JamieD

shroud68 said:

DoctorDoom said:

Hex said:

The Defenders were always an oddball group of misfits, but the Champions take the cake. Feels like the bullpen threw that line-up together by pulling their names out of a hat. Wish Marvel would bring these guys back... even for a 4 issue mini (Hell, I'll take a one-shot even). And get Byrne to draw it! It could be his triumphant return to Marvel!

Gotta love Back Issue.

Hell yeah! (except for Byrne drawing it)

I have the Champions trades, and love them.

What did the trades cover? And that was early Bryne for Marvel so it did not reach the level of distraction that his late 80 early 90s work did.

The trades are the entire series inluding the cross over with Super Villian Team up, I have them both too

SolitaireRose

I picked up the book when Byrne started work for it...wow the team just didn't gel in any way. Reading them now, it really feels like a "team books are selling, so let's put out another one. Have it it!"

Bookbag

I loved the Champions. They should have more teams made from second string characters, makes for an interesting dynamic.
How about New Champions with, Iceman, Hank Pym, Wonder Man, Hellcat and Kitty Pryde.

Hex

Bookbag said:

How about New Champions with, Iceman, Hank Pym, Wonder Man, Hellcat and Kitty Pryde.

Ha! Those characters are now all way to high profile for an all-new Champions team!
Champions would need to scape closer to the bottom of the C-list barrel.
More like Gilgamesh, D-man, Steel Spider, etc. The more random, the better

dubbat138

Webhead said:

I loved the Champions and The Defenders

I love the quirkiness of The Defenders during the Steve Gerber run, they still are some of my favorite comics.

As for the Champions any team located in California got my immediate attention, if it was So. Cal.

The Defenders are still my favorite superhero team.

shroud68

dubbat138 said:

Webhead said:

I loved the Champions and The Defenders

I love the quirkiness of The Defenders during the Steve Gerber run, they still are some of my favorite comics.

As for the Champions any team located in California got my immediate attention, if it was So. Cal.

The Defenders are still my favorite superhero team.

The Defenders stories were always too loopy ( for lack of a better word). They were often incoherent and while that may be the appeal to some, I like my Capes and Cowls to be a little grounded in reality. I subscribed to them the last few years because I loved the revolving door roster but other then some story-lines,the Overmind/Squadron Supreme arc comes to mind, they do not make my list of stories I go back to.

Chuck_Melville

shroud68 said:

dubbat138 said:

Webhead said:

I loved the Champions and The Defenders

I love the quirkiness of The Defenders during the Steve Gerber run, they still are some of my favorite comics.

As for the Champions any team located in California got my immediate attention, if it was So. Cal.

The Defenders are still my favorite superhero team.

The Defenders stories were always too loopy ( for lack of a better word). They were often incoherent and while that may be the appeal to some, I like my Capes and Cowls to be a little grounded in reality. I subscribed to them the last few years because I loved the revolving door roster but other then some story-lines,the Overmind/Squadron Supreme arc comes to mind, they do not make my list of stories I go back to.

The first few years' worth by Roy Thomas, Steve Englehart, Len Wein and most certainly Steve Gerber are solid gold, right up to issue #40. After that... meh.

Hex

What other C-list teams did (does?) Marvel have that are of the same calibre (or lesser) as the Champions? Any with their own title/series?

Obviously The Great Lakes Avengers (or whatever they call themselves now - The Lightning Rods?). Texas Rangers. The Slingers. Omega Flight (don't you dare say Alpha Flight). X-Factor has always felt like the awkward step-child of the X-universe. The Craptacular B-Sides!

I've always enjoyed the loser underdog teams.
Give me more!

dubbat138

shroud68 said:

dubbat138 said:

Webhead said:

I loved the Champions and The Defenders

I love the quirkiness of The Defenders during the Steve Gerber run, they still are some of my favorite comics.

As for the Champions any team located in California got my immediate attention, if it was So. Cal.

The Defenders are still my favorite superhero team.

The Defenders stories were always too loopy ( for lack of a better word). They were often incoherent and while that may be the appeal to some, I like my Capes and Cowls to be a little grounded in reality. I subscribed to them the last few years because I loved the revolving door roster but other then some story-lines,the Overmind/Squadron Supreme arc comes to mind, they do not make my list of stories I go back to.

By last few years do you mean when the team was Angel,Iceman,beast and some others? Cause by then the lineup rarely changed. I loved the Defenders from the first issue to the last. I loved how wacky it was,I loved the changing lineup. Plus I can not hate anything Steve Gerber wrote. But I can see why it is a series that wouldn't appeal to everyone.

shroud68

Hex said:

What other C-list teams did (does?) Marvel have that are of the same calibre (or lesser) as the Champions? Any with their own title/series?

Obviously The Great Lakes Avengers (or whatever they call themselves now - The Lightning Rods?). Texas Rangers. The Slingers. Omega Flight (don't you dare say Alpha Flight). X-Factor has always felt like the awkward step-child of the X-universe. The Craptacular B-Sides!

I've always enjoyed the loser underdog teams.
Give me more!

I would not put any of those teams on the same level as the Champions ( except maybe incarnations of X Factor beyond the first ). Champions were stars of their own title or major supporting players. You can't really say that about GLA or Texas Rangers.

mwhitt80

shroud68 said:

I would not put any of those teams on the same level as the Champions ( except maybe incarnations of X Factor beyond the first ). Champions were stars of their own title or major supporting players. You can't really say that about GLA or Texas Rangers.

I agree with that. The members of the Champions may not have been the biggest stars of their titles, but they were key players. There are not very many comparable teams at Marvel. The West Coast Avengers are close but they seem to be a step up; maybe the Midnight Sons from the 90s. My favorite thrown together C level team is the New Fantastic Four (Spidey, Hulk, Wolverine, and GR).

Chuck_Melville

There were supposed to have been about fifty or more individual Avengers teams during the period of the Avengers Initiative, one for each state (plus DC and the territories) -- only a few were ever identified, like the Others and the Texas Rangers. So there's a bunch of B, C and, likely, D level teams for you.

mwhitt80

Georgia Avengers.... uhmmm.... Scarlet from GI Joe.

Hex

Chuck_Melville said:

There were supposed to have been about fifty or more individual Avengers teams during the period of the Avengers Initiative, one for each state (plus DC and the territories) -- only a few were ever identified, like the Others and the Texas Rangers. So there's a bunch of B, C and, likely, D level teams for you.

That was my favourite part of the Avengers Initiative... seeing all the different state teams, what the team names were, and who ended up where. Thought it was funny that the Alaska "team" was only Hellcat.

I remember the all the hubbub about Marvel losing the rights to the "Champions" name when they wanted to relaunch the title as the California Avengers Initiative book. I wonder if The Order would have lasted longer if it had the Champions title? There is a D-list team if ever there was one, although I wish they would have thrown in a couple of more established characters on the line-up. Tough to make a book sell with an unknown cast. I wonder if we will ever see those characters again. I doubt it, as they were only to be powered up for a year (very Strikeforce Morituri).

Chuck_Melville

Hex said:

Chuck_Melville said:

There were supposed to have been about fifty or more individual Avengers teams during the period of the Avengers Initiative, one for each state (plus DC and the territories) -- only a few were ever identified, like the Others and the Texas Rangers. So there's a bunch of B, C and, likely, D level teams for you.

That was my favourite part of the Avengers Initiative... seeing all the different state teams, what the team names were, and who ended up where. Thought it was funny that the Alaska "team" was only Hellcat.

I remember the all the hubbub about Marvel losing the rights to the "Champions" name when they wanted to relaunch the title as the California Avengers Initiative book. I wonder if The Order would have lasted longer if it had the Champions title? There is a D-list team if ever there was one, although I wish they would have thrown in a couple of more established characters on the line-up. Tough to make a book sell with an unknown cast. I wonder if we will ever see those characters again. I doubt it, as they were only to be powered up for a year (very Strikeforce Morituri).

I called them The Others, didn't I? Mental slip on my part; I had Lost on my mind. I meant The Order.

Hex

Chuck_Melville said:

There were supposed to have been about fifty or more individual Avengers teams during the period of the Avengers Initiative, one for each state (plus DC and the territories) -- only a few were ever identified, like the Others and the Texas Rangers. So there's a bunch of B, C and, likely, D level teams for you.

Anyone know if there is a comprehensive list online anywhere that lists off the various Avengers Initiative teams that have been identified for which states and their members?
Found this (not bad, 30 out of 50!)

Love the mix of "reformed" villains and heroes. I wonder how many of those Initiative villains have stayed reformed since Marvel's mandatory registration has been revoked?