When it's time to call it quits with a character
playdohsrepublic
Posts: 1,377
One thing I feel like we tend to hear, especially from creators trying to promote their creator-owned work, is that we, as fans, should follow the creators and not the characters. That we shouldn't by books we don't like just because it's about Superman or Wolverine or whatever. But we've all done it. They may be fictional, but a little part of these characters is real to us and I know I don't want to miss out on an important part of a characters existence just because I don't like how they are being handled...
But not really. Over the last few years I've noticed that I've been breaking up with characters left and right and having flings with characters I wouldn't have looked twice at before because the creative on it is so attractive (like Daredevil and Hawkeye for instance) and reading more creator owned than ever.
Examples:
I read Batman: Hush. I had been a pretty big bat-fan, but even though I didn't hate the story I instantly felt like I never needed to read another mainstream Batman story again. Now I can't stand anything Bat-related. I don't even know why.
Spider-Man, that was toughest, because he's the reason I even got into comics. But even during the BND era Dan Slott was one of my least favorite writers and when Spider-Island happened, I read the first issue and didn't read it again for 6 months. The only reason I even bothered was because there was a crossover with Daredevil and I didn't want to skip ahead. But then 700 came out. It wasn't anything I didn't expect from Slott, no raging hate fires in my soul over it. But it was an out and I took it and now I don't miss him at all.
I'm curious, is this happening with anyone else? When did you know it was over?
But not really. Over the last few years I've noticed that I've been breaking up with characters left and right and having flings with characters I wouldn't have looked twice at before because the creative on it is so attractive (like Daredevil and Hawkeye for instance) and reading more creator owned than ever.
Examples:
I read Batman: Hush. I had been a pretty big bat-fan, but even though I didn't hate the story I instantly felt like I never needed to read another mainstream Batman story again. Now I can't stand anything Bat-related. I don't even know why.
Spider-Man, that was toughest, because he's the reason I even got into comics. But even during the BND era Dan Slott was one of my least favorite writers and when Spider-Island happened, I read the first issue and didn't read it again for 6 months. The only reason I even bothered was because there was a crossover with Daredevil and I didn't want to skip ahead. But then 700 came out. It wasn't anything I didn't expect from Slott, no raging hate fires in my soul over it. But it was an out and I took it and now I don't miss him at all.
I'm curious, is this happening with anyone else? When did you know it was over?
Comments
And even at five years old I was paying attention to the credits. As early as my elementary school years, the creative teams, while not being the sole determining factor, were already playing a big part in my buying decisions.
That being said, there are still certain characters I’ll give more leeway to. Anytime Aquaman gets relaunched, I’ll give the title a shot irrespective of the creative team. By the same token, I won’t hesitate to drop it like a hot potato if it doesn’t do anything for me. Likewise, there are certain creators I’ll pick up no matter what they do, and if it ends up being a series that doesn’t work for me, I’ll drop it.
I have to admit a sense of relief at the latest series cancellation, and a hope that it will be a while before a relaunch. Maybe I can make the break.
on the brightside Marvel has given me close to ten years of really good to excellent Hulk stories, and if we pretend Shadowland was just a dream, then Daredevil has set the bar for consistently great stories over a 15 year period.
I am guilty of buying Batman and Detective out of compulsion and habit than desire. even during times when I flat out havnt enjoyed it. Fortunately even when they havnt been great in my opinion theyve rarely been what I consider really truly bad. I think theyve each been steadily average / nothing special for so long now that I might be ready to let them go.
Yes, a gifted creator can take an existing character no one cares about and turn out a great story. But in the process of making that story, they are making the reader care about that character. They are making that character, even if only for the duration of that one story, a strong, memorable character.
Characters do not appear out of the ether fully formed. They are built up over the course of a story (or many stories). It is those stories—and hence the people creating those stories—that make characters iconic or forgettable.
But the thing is that, if the creators have done their jobs properly, their characters will outlive them. Eventually—sooner rather than later when it comes to comics—they will be handled by other creators, for good or ill. So, it’s only natural that people generally tend to latch onto characters over creators. The characters were created to achieve a connection with the reader on some level (some may connect more strongly than others), and they will always be there for the reader.
As for the rest, I’m not going to judge anyone for what they read or why they read it—not publicly anyway. ;)
Look, I understand where you’re coming from. I worked at a comic shop back in the early ’90s. I can’t tell you how many times customers would come up and say something along the lines of, “Man, (fill in the blank) sucks! When are they going to get a new writer?” Yet they kept on purchasing the book month after month, and month after month they would complain about it. After a while I got fed up with asking them why then they kept buying the book. Instead I started telling them, “Well, if you liked this book when so-and-so was writing it, you should try this other book, because it has a similar feel. I think you’ll like it if you give it a shot.” Sometimes they’d take the advice, sometimes they wouldn’t.
The point is, people generally don’t respond well to broad criticisms of their reading habits. They tend to get defensive about it, in fact. But if you give them specific alternatives to specific situations, you’ll get a much better response.
And part of the reason they get defensive is that comic book readers tend to get emotionally attached (sometimes deeply attached) to their favorite characters. It’s just how most of us are wired internally, just as I believe it is that same internal wiring that draws us to stories told in the form of pictures and text in the first place. So you’re going to have a hard time taking emotional response out of the equation.
That doesn’t mean logic has no place in the discussion. In fact, I think you’ll find that most readers, particularly the ones I’ve encountered on this board, already know and understand the arguments have laid out. Most comic book readers are intelligent people, and can figure all of that stuff out for themselves. But if you expect everyone to throw away their emotional attachments in the face of logic, you’re in for a lot more frustration.
Also, keep in mind that sometimes people just like to bitch. ;)
As a child, it was all about the character. I read Spider-Man because I liked Spider-Man. Anything beyond that was information I didn't need, want, or care about.
But, as a child, it wasn't just what was written on the page... it was tied into every time we played superheroes, or with action figures. The comics were merely jumping off points to our imagination, in which the character was ALWAYS amazing. Comics inspired, but, for the most part, they weren't the final word.
As we get older, there is less time for play, so more of the responsibility for making the character amazing lands on the comic creators. A lot of folks learn that the creators are the major factors and tend to follow the creators at that point, rather than a particular character.
And, yet, especially with those characters that we loved so much as children, there is a desire for them to be good, and we often give them the nostalgia boost - enjoying less than stellar runs a bit more than warranted, keeping up with a title through bad runs hoping it gets better, defending creative choices that even we aren't that sure that we really like.
I'm an old man now. I have my favorite characters, but I've learned that bad stories starring those characters don't increase my love of those characters, so I find it easier to drop them pretty quick. Still, I tend to give them multiple chances to rip my heart out, for nostalgia's sake.
I'm looking at you, Firestorm. I know it was you, Firestorm. You broke my heart. You broke my heart!
I quit reading Spider-Man because Peter's greatest enemies were either dead or good (the Green Goblin, Venom), his best friend was dead (Harry Osborn), Ben Reily was going to take his place (or was he the clone? I always forget), he and MJ were going to have a kid and raise it, and Aunt May was dead. With all that going on, it was a perfect ending point.
Of course, me quitting comics is a far more complicated answer, but with my favorite superhero retiring, I decided to too.
When they announced they were making her into Batgirl again I was devastated but then Gail Simone explained her plan and it made sense (kind of) and it was handled very well.
I think characters are important to some people because sometimes they are able to get across a point of view that you might not be able to explain.
I haven't let her go yet as she represents a huge part of me and I think for a lot of people they don't let their characters go, they just wait for the good creators to come back to them.
I see the three elements - Story/Character/Creator - as essentially equals, or at the very least a system of checks and balances that, the closer you get to equilibrium, will deliver a great overall experience reading the book, and a comic that will stand the test of time.
I'm not sure that the touchstones are the same with creators. If all of the works that a creator puts out create the exact same association, that feels a little one trick pony-ish to me and is probably not a creator that I'm going to stick with for very long before I get tired of seeing the same things rehashed. So, I suspect that with creators, it's more about a style of writing or illustration or genre that they elevate that makes for the connection.
For example, while I love David Drake's military SF books, I'm less of a fan of his fantasy (largely because he DOES elevate military SF and his fantasy characters by an large are all the same people in different scenarios). I continue to follow him as a writer, but his books aren't the urgent buys that they were when he was focusing on the Slammers universe.
Its always been the characters that intrigued me, not the specific creators. They were my safety net when I would read other stuff. Since I moved on, I did try other characters (currently the Shadow.) I buy the titles regardless of the creative teams.
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But my love of certain characters has led me to writers many times. Reading JLA and Fantastic Four led me to Mark Waid, and now Daredevil (plus the other million great things he's done in the last 20 years), Fraction on Iron Man led me to Hawkeye, and so on...
Which is why I love the current Mark Waid run. Waid has managed to utilize the best of both the swashbuckler devil-may-care character and the noirish DD to produce some really great, great stories.
I didn't stop reading the X-Men when Clairemont left, although to me he *is* the definitive voice of the team.
And certainly I wouldn't want to read Warlord done by anyone besides Mike Grell.
If I think of any other examples I'll add 'em...good question, though.