Also, I think it is important to remember that it is of no interest to the publishers how the relaunching, or lack of volume number, affects the back issue market. Those are the books they have already sold. How confusing it might be for the secondary market (and back issue collectors buying after the fact) to organize and sell these books are not their concern.
As for how the remembering affects Marvels backlist? It is easy to have these titles displayed in chronological order via Comixology (or the associated Marvel app), and there have long been titles that go through a variety of titles and volumes but nonetheless have a clear collected edition backlist. Just look at Hellboy. A reader excited to follow the story can look at the number on the spine, or check Wikipedia.
It is different than how it used to be. But that doesn't mean it is not working for them. Sure, it may be that a readership doesn't stick to 100 issues of a given title, but if instead that same readership spreads those dollars over 5 sets of 20 issue volumes, even of 5 different titles, then they are still selling the same amount of cars over the same amount of years, you know what I mean?
Also, I think it is important to remember that it is of no interest to the publishers how the relaunching, or lack of volume number, affects the back issue market. Those are the books they have already sold. How confusing it might be for the secondary market (and back issue collectors buying after the fact) to organize and sell these books are not their concern.
As for how the remembering affects Marvels backlist? It is easy to have these titles displayed in chronological order via Comixology (or the associated Marvel app), and there have long been titles that go through a variety of titles and volumes but nonetheless have a clear collected edition backlist. Just look at Hellboy. A reader excited to follow the story can look at the number on the spine, or check Wikipedia.
It is different than how it used to be. But that doesn't mean it is not working for them. Sure, it may be that a readership doesn't stick to 100 issues of a given title, but if instead that same readership spreads those dollars over 5 sets of 20 issue volumes, even of 5 different titles, then they are still selling the same amount of cars over the same amount of years, you know what I mean?
Not saying you're wrong, but I could just as easily substitute the relaunch gimmick with foil covers in the 90's and your argument will remain the same. Even if it makes business sense for them, I don't have to like it and I intend to start treating these titles like the limited series that they are and expect them to be the "jumping off" points that the current economy encourages...
Also, I think it is important to remember that it is of no interest to the publishers how the relaunching, or lack of volume number, affects the back issue market. Those are the books they have already sold. How confusing it might be for the secondary market (and back issue collectors buying after the fact) to organize and sell these books are not their concern.
Yep. Marvel, DC, & every other publisher (from Image down to Joe from Bumpkinville, Idaho) are in the new comics business.
Decades ago people used to be fine with picking up #292 of whatever longterm series was out there. No one cared about "jumping-on points" because you had a sense that you would have enough information (without the internet, even!) to just eventually get up to speed with what was going on anyway. If you wanted to read Spider-Man, you read whatever Spider-Man issue was out. If you wanted to follow a favorite artist when that artist went to draw Batman, you just bought that issue of Batman, and it was a sense of discovery to try and figure out what was going on. We don't have that anymore, and to some extent I can't really blame people for being so skittish about trying new non-"jumping on points". Because the storytelling isn't the same, and if you randomly buy an issue of a series, you will be quite lost. The storytelling now doesn't really lend itself to making each installment enjoyable in and of itself.
This is the only part that I disagree with slightly, and only slightly. I think some of it has less to do with writing changes and a lot more to do with a reader's tolerance to jump into reading a story without knowing what came before it.
I hear from a LOT of my friends now who say that they don't like to jump into a story in the middle anymore. They don't want to read a title unless they can go back and read the 1st issue and read all the way through to the current stuff. My argument back is exactly what was said above which is "did you feel you had to read Amazing Spider-Man #1 through 291 before #292? No. You just jumped in and figured it out as you went along. Sure, maybe you went back and got a few back issues if you could, but you still just jumped in.
So, when I realized it might even be my own mindset that could be getting in the way, I decided to just pick up a DC title, a Marvel title, and an independent title at random. The only criteria was that they had to be, according to my knowledge, not a jumping on point and not a #1. They also had to be a title that I had not been reading for a long time. And I read them with an open mind and with the intention of enjoying them. You know what I found out? I found that if I let myself still have that youthful spirit of just jumping into an adventure without being sure of what I was getting myself into, that I could read and enjoy the story. Not saying all 3 stories were good, but I could follow what was happening, or if I was a little lost with who someone was, I got a general idea by the end of the issue. I also realized that if I continued with these titles going forward I would eventually fill in the gaps of my lack of knowledge as to what was going on or who someone was, JUST LIKE I USED TO DO WHEN I WAS A KID READING #292 ON A WHIM.
Have writing styles changed? Absolutely. Can this sometimes get in the way from us understanding everything or everyone in a random issues? Yes, it can. But did we face this same problem years ago with some issues when their numbering was in the hundreds? Yes, we did. Did we let that stop us from continuing to read a fun story and to continue reading the title just for the hell of it and realize we might know more later if we keep going? HELL NO!!
Give it a try. It can be a fun experiment if you have the right mindset for it going in.
And yet for some reason we aren't seeing the Walking Dead relaunching every 25 issues to bump sales...
Sure, but that is an outlier. Every publisher would like every book to sell the way Walking Dead does (or Saga does) but you can't make a plan based on that kind of unusual success.
And yet for some reason we aren't seeing the Walking Dead relaunching every 25 issues to bump sales...
Sure, but that is an outlier. Every publisher would like every book to sell the way Walking Dead does (or Saga does) but you can't make a plan based on that kind of unusual success.
Marvel and DC had that kind of success and still do. Take Amazing Spider-Man. Issues #695, #696, etc, were selling more copies than Saga. Superior still does. And yet they rebooted, relaunched, and are renumbering... again.
Does this do any good? Thor God of Thunder is doing slightly better numbers than Mighty Thor was doing two years ago, but Fantastic Four #605 sold almost double what the new relaunch issue #2 did. So what exactly are they basing their plan on? Is this truly unusual success? Amazing Spider-Man 698 and on was doing HUGE numbers, no one cared it was such a high issue number.
My argument back is exactly what was said above which is "did you feel you had to read Amazing Spider-Man #1 through 291 before #292? No. You just jumped in and figured it out as you went along. Sure, maybe you went back and got a few back issues if you could, but you still just jumped in.
I totally agree with this point of view. Just write solid stories and produce exceptional art and let marketing do the rest. The books are going to find their way into the hands of the readers (or the e-devices) and will live or fall on their merit, not their numbering or foil covers.
Do Image and the big 2 have the same expectations with sales figures? Does Saga selling 50k mean more to Image than Spiderman selling 75k does to Marvel?
Image has stated several times that they make no more money off of their highest selling book than they do their lowest. So no, they do not have the same expectations with sales figures. Saga selling 50k means more to Brian K. Vaughan than Amazing Spider-man selling 75k does to Dan Slott though.
I would also like to point out that it's pretty low-down of Marvel to retroactively increase the prices of books that have already been solicited. Why not put it in the next solicit? Hawkeye #19 was meant to be out in April but has slipped to 21st May, with #20 and #21 slipping forward a month as well… So they retroactively jacked up the price on a book that was already shipping late, shipping out of order, sticking in fill-in issues... they should've done this after the pizza dog issue or waited until the next solicits.
Some retailer ought to go Brian Hibbs on them. Otherwise EVERYONE is going to start going DCBS instead of LCS.
According to an email update I just got from DCBS, three months after increasing the price of Hawkeye from $2.99 to $3.99 (retroactively mind you, meaning it was solicited for $3 and then at the last minute Marvel increased the price by 20%) they've done it again and added another 20% to issue #22, NOW only FIVE BUCKS...
Those that have been waiting to get this run in trades absolutely made the smarter financial decision. As a one time Hawkeye fan who has hung on this long in spite of all oft he delays, books coming published out of order and now more than one last minute price hike, I feel a little violated by Marvel. Damn my compulsive completist mentality...
According to an email update I just got from DCBS, three months after increasing the price of Hawkeye from $2.99 to $3.99 (retroactively mind you, meaning it was solicited for $3 and then at the last minute Marvel increased the price by 20%) they've done it again and added another 20% to issue #22, NOW only FIVE BUCKS...
Those that have been waiting to get this run in trades absolutely made the smarter financial decision. As a one time Hawkeye fan who has hung on this long in spite of all oft he delays, books coming published out of order and now more than one last minute price hike, I feel a little violated by Marvel. Damn my compulsive completist mentality...
I think it is because the last issue increased in size and is a longer comic.
It sucks that the schedule slipped so badly, and Marvel WILL have to take returns on the book if retailers don't sell them. Problem is, I don't think there will be any retailer returning them. Hawkeye sells very steadily, and I can't see the people who buy it refusing to buy the end of the story.
I have actually sold off my trades in anticipation of a Omnibus.
According to an email update I just got from DCBS, three months after increasing the price of Hawkeye from $2.99 to $3.99 (retroactively mind you, meaning it was solicited for $3 and then at the last minute Marvel increased the price by 20%) they've done it again and added another 20% to issue #22, NOW only FIVE BUCKS...
Those that have been waiting to get this run in trades absolutely made the smarter financial decision. As a one time Hawkeye fan who has hung on this long in spite of all oft he delays, books coming published out of order and now more than one last minute price hike, I feel a little violated by Marvel. Damn my compulsive completist mentality...
I think it is because the last issue increased in size and is a longer comic.
It sucks that the schedule slipped so badly, and Marvel WILL have to take returns on the book if retailers don't sell them. Problem is, I don't think there will be any retailer returning them. Hawkeye sells very steadily, and I can't see the people who buy it refusing to buy the end of the story.
I have actually sold off my trades in anticipation of a Omnibus.
You guys are right and I understand the decision, but I'm still venting from the schedule changes and the last price hike I suppose. I guess in January I'll sell off my full run and flip that into an Omnibus too.
And yet for some reason we aren't seeing the Walking Dead relaunching every 25 issues to bump sales...
Sure, but that is an outlier. Every publisher would like every book to sell the way Walking Dead does (or Saga does) but you can't make a plan based on that kind of unusual success.
The other thing Walking Dead does it has clearly defined story arcs (usually six issues) and has a complete line of trade paperbacks available at all times. If you look at the sales figures, it usually jumps up 5 - 10% every new story arc.
And yet for some reason we aren't seeing the Walking Dead relaunching every 25 issues to bump sales...
Sure, but that is an outlier. Every publisher would like every book to sell the way Walking Dead does (or Saga does) but you can't make a plan based on that kind of unusual success.
The other thing Walking Dead does it has clearly defined story arcs (usually six issues) and has a complete line of trade paperbacks available at all times. If you look at the sales figures, it usually jumps up 5 - 10% every new story arc.
You're right. Image is doing so many things I admire - this is just one example. I notice they've resisted rebooting Spawn and Savage Dragon too.
Anyone else notice that Hawkeye #22 from Matt Fraction was solicited way back in August 2014, yet still hasn't shipped? I think it's coming out around the end of this month. And now Jeff Lemire's All-New Hawkeye is out on comic store shelves, before the last series even ended!
I guess Marvel realized that waiting on that frequently late, and even out of order, monthly book has been leaving money on the table for them. Fans would have bought a new issue of Hawkeye every month if the creative team could've kept up with that pace. Too bad really because Lemire's take isn't nearly as good as Fraction's was (at least during the first 10-12 issues).
It's a bummer that the last Fraction/Aja issue has been so delayed. But I will be glad to read it whenever the heck it comes out.
I have only read the first issue of the Lemire/Perez volume. They certainly have a hard act to follow. But the first issue didn't really grab me. The flashback stuff looked beautiful. But the present day stuff felt like they were trying to do a Fraction/Aja scene (And, to be fair, that was probably their brief) and not quite nailing it. I think I have up to #3 ordered via DCBS, so we'll see. But from this start I expect this will be something I might just read on Marvel Unlimited someday instead.
Comments
As for how the remembering affects Marvels backlist? It is easy to have these titles displayed in chronological order via Comixology (or the associated Marvel app), and there have long been titles that go through a variety of titles and volumes but nonetheless have a clear collected edition backlist. Just look at Hellboy. A reader excited to follow the story can look at the number on the spine, or check Wikipedia.
It is different than how it used to be. But that doesn't mean it is not working for them. Sure, it may be that a readership doesn't stick to 100 issues of a given title, but if instead that same readership spreads those dollars over 5 sets of 20 issue volumes, even of 5 different titles, then they are still selling the same amount of cars over the same amount of years, you know what I mean?
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All that, plus don't forget, we've trained them to do this.
We buy more #1s than #2s or #17s.
As ye reap...
I hear from a LOT of my friends now who say that they don't like to jump into a story in the middle anymore. They don't want to read a title unless they can go back and read the 1st issue and read all the way through to the current stuff. My argument back is exactly what was said above which is "did you feel you had to read Amazing Spider-Man #1 through 291 before #292? No. You just jumped in and figured it out as you went along. Sure, maybe you went back and got a few back issues if you could, but you still just jumped in.
So, when I realized it might even be my own mindset that could be getting in the way, I decided to just pick up a DC title, a Marvel title, and an independent title at random. The only criteria was that they had to be, according to my knowledge, not a jumping on point and not a #1. They also had to be a title that I had not been reading for a long time. And I read them with an open mind and with the intention of enjoying them. You know what I found out? I found that if I let myself still have that youthful spirit of just jumping into an adventure without being sure of what I was getting myself into, that I could read and enjoy the story. Not saying all 3 stories were good, but I could follow what was happening, or if I was a little lost with who someone was, I got a general idea by the end of the issue. I also realized that if I continued with these titles going forward I would eventually fill in the gaps of my lack of knowledge as to what was going on or who someone was, JUST LIKE I USED TO DO WHEN I WAS A KID READING #292 ON A WHIM.
Have writing styles changed? Absolutely. Can this sometimes get in the way from us understanding everything or everyone in a random issues? Yes, it can. But did we face this same problem years ago with some issues when their numbering was in the hundreds? Yes, we did. Did we let that stop us from continuing to read a fun story and to continue reading the title just for the hell of it and realize we might know more later if we keep going? HELL NO!!
Give it a try. It can be a fun experiment if you have the right mindset for it going in.
Does this do any good? Thor God of Thunder is doing slightly better numbers than Mighty Thor was doing two years ago, but Fantastic Four #605 sold almost double what the new relaunch issue #2 did. So what exactly are they basing their plan on? Is this truly unusual success? Amazing Spider-Man 698 and on was doing HUGE numbers, no one cared it was such a high issue number.
I totally agree with this point of view. Just write solid stories and produce exceptional art and let marketing do the rest. The books are going to find their way into the hands of the readers (or the e-devices) and will live or fall on their merit, not their numbering or foil covers.
See more at: imagecomics.com/about/faq
Some retailer ought to go Brian Hibbs on them. Otherwise EVERYONE is going to start going DCBS instead of LCS.
Those that have been waiting to get this run in trades absolutely made the smarter financial decision. As a one time Hawkeye fan who has hung on this long in spite of all oft he delays, books coming published out of order and now more than one last minute price hike, I feel a little violated by Marvel. Damn my compulsive completist mentality...
It sucks that the schedule slipped so badly, and Marvel WILL have to take returns on the book if retailers don't sell them. Problem is, I don't think there will be any retailer returning them. Hawkeye sells very steadily, and I can't see the people who buy it refusing to buy the end of the story.
I have actually sold off my trades in anticipation of a Omnibus.
You guys are right and I understand the decision, but I'm still venting from the schedule changes and the last price hike I suppose. I guess in January I'll sell off my full run and flip that into an Omnibus too.
I guess Marvel realized that waiting on that frequently late, and even out of order, monthly book has been leaving money on the table for them. Fans would have bought a new issue of Hawkeye every month if the creative team could've kept up with that pace. Too bad really because Lemire's take isn't nearly as good as Fraction's was (at least during the first 10-12 issues).
Just lamenting.
I have only read the first issue of the Lemire/Perez volume. They certainly have a hard act to follow. But the first issue didn't really grab me. The flashback stuff looked beautiful. But the present day stuff felt like they were trying to do a Fraction/Aja scene (And, to be fair, that was probably their brief) and not quite nailing it. I think I have up to #3 ordered via DCBS, so we'll see. But from this start I expect this will be something I might just read on Marvel Unlimited someday instead.