What makes a super-villain?

gothamkid

So among the other conceipts and compromises that the Super-Heroes Never-Ending Battle made in their documentary (I guess in order to get the participation that they did) was to state that the Joker, the first super-villain was created by Jerry Robinson. I'm not writing to dispute the created by credit (I don't want to open the can of worms), but first super-villain, really?

So what makes a super-villain, and what, other than popularity, do you think they based their claim on?

1st reccuring? Hugo Strange, Ultra-Humanite, and Tigress (reccuring Zatara foe; 1st appearance Action #1) all pre-date the Joker and the Catwoman has the same first appearance as him.
1st recurring still around? That knocks Tigress out, and I don't think Ultra-Humanite has been seen in the New 52, but Joker, Catwoman, and Hugo Strange have all been in comics within the past year.
1st recurring with the most appearances? Okay, that knocks out Hugo Strange, but based on her longer lasting on-going series, I'm sure Catwoman has had more comics published about her than the Joker.

What do you think?

playdohsrepublic

Catwoman has the status of more of an anti-hero. Even going back as far as her Earth 2 days as Batman's wife. And I haven't read the first appearance issue, but maybe Joker's story is first? I agree that title of first "super-villian" is specious though.

mwhitt80

"What makes a super villian?"
I would say a purple & green outfit

Torchsong

Some artists took mwhitt80's comment to heart - many of the early villains always had something "off" in their perspective in some way (whereas a hero was always very proportional) and often they would use secondary (purple, green, orange) colors where a lot of the heroes were primary (red, yellow and blue) colors.

Anymore, I think a "good" supervillain needs to see themselves as the hero of "their" book. They're doing what they perceive is right for them in their world. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for the rest of the world at large, hence the superhero coming in to break it up at the end of the day. Lex Luthor, Ozymandias, etc...

Chuck_Melville

I think the use of secondary colors on villain outfits -- and the use of primaries for the heroes -- had a lot to do with the limitations of color palettes in the pre-computerized color era, and helped to establish a visual code of sorts. The hero was bright, the villain wore dark, etc...

mwhitt80

Torchsong said:

many of the early villains always had something "off" in their perspective in some way and often they would use secondary (purple, green, orange) colors.
Anymore, I think a "good" supervillain needs to see themselves as the hero of "their" book. They're doing what they perceive is right for them in their world. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for the rest of the world at large, hence the superhero coming in to break it up at the end of the day. Lex Luthor, Ozymandias, etc...

Crap I forgot orange,

That's a great point about the super villians motivation. I often think of good supervillians as either thinking of themselves as the hero or they are Iagos (from Othello). Iago was Satan in the flesh; he knew he was a villian and didn't give a dang. All he cared about was getting over on the Othello. He was like an evil tornado. The Joker is like that.

mwhitt80

Hugo Strange really wasn't a reoccuring character until the late 70's. I was looking at his comicbookdb; he was created in early 1940 and has 2 more appearances in 1940. His 2nd appearance is the Joker's 1st. After 1940 he shows up just once in 37 years (a story in House of Mystery involving the Martian Manhunter). I also do not think there was anything (in the 1940 appearances) that seperated him from just a plain villian.

The Ultra Humanite would be a better case for "the first supervillian", but I don't think agrument for UltraHumanite is strong enough to refute Joker's claim.

Chuck_Melville

mwhitt80 said:

Hugo Strange really wasn't a reoccuring character until the late 70's. I was looking at his comicbookdb; he was created in early 1940 and has 2 more appearances in 1940. His 2nd appearance is the Joker's 1st. After 1940 he shows up just once in 37 years (a story in House of Mystery involving the Martian Manhunter). I also do not think there was anything (in the 1940 appearances) that seperated him from just a plain villian.

I would say three appearances in short order qualifies for recurring villain. It was a short recurrence, sure, but...

Batman also faced Dr Death a few times during the same period.

And that wasn't Hugo Strange that the Manhunter faced down, but Professor Arnold Hugo, a scientist who had accelerated his brain's growth and his overall intelligence. He faced off against Batman a couple of times during the early 60's, then shifted to the Martian Manhunter's strip -- probably because his type of character didn't really fit in with the New Look revival in the Caped Crusader's books at that point of time.

random73

I'm stunned my the knowledge of comics history being bandied about in here absolutely free of charge. You go Geeks!

Mr_Cosmic

Torchsong said:

Anymore, I think a "good" supervillain needs to see themselves as the hero of "their" book. They're doing what they perceive is right for them in their world.

Sometimes, but I still enjoy a mustache twirling villain who does evil for evil's sake. They know they are being bad and love it. They even join teams with words like "Evil" and "Villains" in the title.

SolitaireRose

The first super-villain was the Sub-Marnier.

He had super-powers, rained destruction on cities, destroyed New York with a giant tidal wave and fought the Human Torch. Then, the Nazis got involved and his because a hero....but those early stories? He was a villain, through and through.