Episode 1475 Talkback - Captain America: The Winter Soldier Movie Review

Adam_Murdough

'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' is already being called one of the best superhero movies made to date--now hear what WE have to say about the Shield-Slinger's second cinematic sortie! (Hint: it's pretty complimentary.) But be warned, if you enter this battlefield, expect to come under heavy SPOILER-fire! (1:13:55)

Listen here.

fredzilla

One if the best parts of these episode posts is the episode blurb from @Adam_Murdough‌. Fun to read each and every time.

TheOriginalGMan

Adam_Murdough said:

But be warned, if you enter this battlefield, expect to come under heavy SPOILER-fire! (1:13:55)

Well, won't be listening to this one for awhile ...

bralinator

Been looking forward to this! Thanks guys.

CageNarleigh

Love that, the first time in awhile that I bother to leave a voicemail, it ruins the tempo of the episode in the middle of Murd-thoughts.

Apologies to all. lol

Otherwise, loving the conversation.

abuddah

abuddah

Who reads the wikipedia synopsis of the movie before hand? That is...unsettling. And really an affront to storytelling. If you strip down any narrative to it's plot points, they just become reports of a fictional event. Language, context, nuance, mood, these are the things that make stories special. My favorite comic book movie of all time is The Dark Knight. However if you just told be the plot, I'd react "sounds like a fairly standard Batman story". It's Zimmer's score, Pfisters cinematography, Ledgers' performance that make that movie magical. It's almost as bizarre as reading the comic book adaptation before seeing a movie #PANTS. Is the motivation simply to have knowledge other comic book geeks don't? Or is it that weird manufactured sense that the movie is trying to deceive or one up you? I urge you to go to GotG without reading anything just to compare the experience. I believe the sense of discovery far outweighs the power of ultimate knowledge.

Matt

abuddah said:

Who reads the wikipedia synopsis of the movie before hand? That is...unsettling. And really an affront to storytelling. If you strip down any narrative to it's plot points, they just become reports of a fictional event. Language, context, nuance, mood, these are the things that make stories special. My favorite comic book movie of all time is The Dark Knight. However if you just told be the plot, I'd react "sounds like a fairly standard Batman story". It's Zimmer's score, Pfisters cinematography, Ledgers' performance that make that movie magical. It's almost as bizarre as reading the comic book adaptation before seeing a movie #PANTS. Is the motivation simply to have knowledge other comic book geeks don't? Or is it that weird manufactured sense that the movie is trying to deceive or one up you? I urge you to go to GotG without reading anything just to compare the experience. I believe the sense of discovery far outweighs the power of ultimate knowledge.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not headed to see either ASM2 or GotG.

I'm not sure how reading Wikipedia before seeing a movie is unsettling. Growing up, I normally wound up reading the novelization before I was able to see the movie. Besides hating to be surprised, if I know how everything plays out, then I avoid tunnel vision. I more appreciate the story, music, acting, etc instead of mostly focusing on the plot.

Knowing Zod's fate or Batman's fate in TDKR before I saw the movies have me an uneasiness. When I saw them in the contents of the storylines, I understood them better. I was able to follow the build ups closer.

M

kiwijase

abuddah said:

popcornsamurai

The movie Jamie is thinking of is three days of the condor not day of the jackle.

I took people that did not see cap1 and they loved the movie even not knowing any background.

i_am_scifi

Mr_Cosmic

CageNarleigh

shroud68

abuddah said:

Who reads the wikipedia synopsis of the movie before hand? That is...unsettling. And really an affront to storytelling. If you strip down any narrative to it's plot points, they just become reports of a fictional event. Language, context, nuance, mood, these are the things that make stories special. My favorite comic book movie of all time is The Dark Knight. However if you just told be the plot, I'd react "sounds like a fairly standard Batman story". It's Zimmer's score, Pfisters cinematography, Ledgers' performance that make that movie magical. It's almost as bizarre as reading the comic book adaptation before seeing a movie #PANTS. Is the motivation simply to have knowledge other comic book geeks don't? Or is it that weird manufactured sense that the movie is trying to deceive or one up you? I urge you to go to GotG without reading anything just to compare the experience. I believe the sense of discovery far outweighs the power of ultimate knowledge.

It's weird for sure but to each his own. I read multiple reviews before any movie, it has not effected my enjoyment at any point in the 30 or so years I've been doing it. @Matt believes differently than you, that's how he enjoys it, try not to be unsettled.

rebis

When Fury was explaining to Cap the need for the 3 state of the art helicarriers, did anyone else think of the old Cap story, "The Sleeper Shall Awake'?. My mind went right to it and I was certain that Redford was going to be revealed as Red Skull.
I was a little disappointed when that didn't happen.

Another thought I want to get opinions on. One of the things that has kept me from buying into Agents of SHIELD is that in the early MU Movies SHIELD agents like Coulson & Sitwell were played as a kind of comic relief. They weren't "Keystone Copping' their way through the movies, but at the same time their very dry, deadpan responses to every situation didn't help establish them as being bad asses. CAWS has helped rehabilitate their image. Certainly, Frank Grillo as Rumlow is mucho bad ass, but I still have a difficult time believing that the higher level SHIELD, and by extension HYDRA agents are much of a threat. To me, they're more Public School Administration douchbags then people that are a real physical threat.

Chuck_Melville

rebis said:

When Fury was explaining to Cap the need for the 3 state of the art helicarriers, did anyone else think of the old Cap story, "The Sleeper Shall Awake'?. My mind went right to it and I was certain that Redford was going to be revealed as Red Skull. I was a little disappointed when that didn't happen.

I didn't think that Redford was going to be revealed as the Red Skull (though that would have been cool, along the lines of the 'Dean Rusk' scenario done in the Avengers comic several years ago), but I did also think of the Sleeper scenario. In a way, that is what the Hydra revelation was, though without the giant rampaging robots.

For a few minutes, I also wondered (before they uncovered the hidden Dr Zola in his new AI configuration) if the unknown AI Cap and the Widow were tracking was going to be an early generation of Ultron, leading into next year's Avengers movie. That turned out not to be so...

bralinator

They've been promising that AoS was going to get "more Marvel" like in the second half of the season, and I believe this may be the catalyst

rebis said:

When Fury was explaining to Cap the need for the 3 state of the art helicarriers, did anyone else think of the old Cap story, "The Sleeper Shall Awake'?. My mind went right to it and I was certain that Redford was going to be revealed as Red Skull.
I was a little disappointed when that didn't happen.

I expected this as well, and was even looking at Redford's wrinkly face for a mask line to show up at one point, but oh well, I was fine with it not going back that far. It might have made more sense, but I was okay with Zola being there.

rebis said:

I still have a difficult time believing that the higher level SHIELD, and by extension HYDRA agents are much of a threat. To me, they're more Public School Administration douchbags then people that are a real physical threat.

At least they weren't AIM operatives. Nobody takes those guys seriously...

Chuck_Melville said:

For a few minutes, I also wondered (before they uncovered the hidden Dr Zola in his new AI configuration) if the unknown AI Cap and the Widow were tracking was going to be an early generation of Ultron, leading into next year's Avengers movie. That turned out not to be so...

Something tells me not to totally rule out Zola's presence in next year's Avengers 2 though...

Matt

I actually like that it wasn't Red Skull. This made the

rebis said:

When Fury was explaining to Cap the need for the 3 state of the art helicarriers, did anyone else think of the old Cap story, "The Sleeper Shall Awake'?. My mind went right to it and I was certain that Redford was going to be revealed as Red Skull.
I was a little disappointed when that didn't happen.

Another thought I want to get opinions on. One of the things that has kept me from buying into Agents of SHIELD is that in the early MU Movies SHIELD agents like Coulson & Sitwell were played as a kind of comic relief. They weren't "Keystone Copping' their way through the movies, but at the same time their very dry, deadpan responses to every situation didn't help establish them as being bad asses. CAWS has helped rehabilitate their image. Certainly, Frank Grillo as Rumlow is mucho bad ass, but I still have a difficult time believing that the higher level SHIELD, and by extension HYDRA agents are much of a threat. To me, they're more Public School Administration douchbags then people that are a real physical threat.

I'm actually glad it wasn't Red Skull. There's more realism if there isn't a 'boogieman' behind it all. Cap couldn't take the head of 1 person, but attack the whole body.

M

Bondo

I've been waiting for this episode since I saw the film and posted my two cents in the movie thread. Thanks @matt for the mention about the CGI Makeup. Great to hear everyone's thoughts, These movie reviews are always a treat. I look forward to the next ones, and I'll be sure to post another ridiculously lengthly review I'm sure!

Royal_Lantern

I absolutely loved this movie. Much like Jamie said, Avengers is still my top comic book movie, but this is a VERY, VERY close second. I really enjoyed the first one a lot, but this definitely surpassed it for me. Fantastic casting. I could not pick a better Falcon and I really enjoyed how much time he got. I could see the next Cap movie being called "Captain America and Falcon" or something along those lines.

I believe the guy with the blades for hands that you guys couldn't remember was Razorfist. I could be wrong, but I believe that is who you were referring to.

I don't get reading the wiki page things either, but as mentioned, to each their own. To me, it's not the same as reading the novel because while some plot points remain the same, things get changed from book to movie. Where the wiki is information based directly on what happens in the movie. But again, while I might not do that or understand doing that, if it makes Matt happy and he enjoys the movie more because of it, more power to you.

I can't wait for Guardians of the Galaxy, and bring on the Quasar movie!!!

I'm not necessarily a Quasar fan in particular, but to me, the more comic book movies the better.

Matt

Royal_Lantern said:

I absolutely loved this movie. Much like Jamie said, Avengers is still my top comic book movie, but this is a VERY, VERY close second. I really enjoyed the first one a lot, but this definitely surpassed it for me. Fantastic casting. I could not pick a better Falcon and I really enjoyed how much time he got. I could see the next Cap movie being called "Captain America and Falcon" or something along those lines.

I believe the guy with the blades for hands that you guys couldn't remember was Razorfist. I could be wrong, but I believe that is who you were referring to.

I don't get reading the wiki page things either, but as mentioned, to each their own. To me, it's not the same as reading the novel because while some plot points remain the same, things get changed from book to movie. Where the wiki is information based directly on what happens in the movie. But again, while I might not do that or understand doing that, if it makes Matt happy and he enjoys the movie more because of it, more power to you.

I can't wait for Guardians of the Galaxy, and bring on the Quasar movie!!!

I'm not necessarily a Quasar fan in particular, but to me, the more comic book movies the better.

That is correct, the novelizations do sometimes have alterations. I have also read novelizations that were the exact same. Wikipedia is not really any different then if you and I are talking about a movie released 20 years ago that I never saw, then I go to see it. Same with a comic book storyline. If I run into people talking about Trinity War at a comic book store, hear the major beats, then read the storyline itself, I really know what happens.

I would not say people have to read the wikipedia beforehand, but it is also not really that different from other reviews, spoilers, novelizations, discussions, etc. Besides, I have said for years, that it is not the ending, but the journey that I find the most interesting. Bond always wins, but I still go to see how he got that win in the movie.

M.

Royal_Lantern

Yeah, I totally get what you're saying and where you're coming from. And I'm not one to lose my mind when I am accidentally spoiled about something in a comic, movie, or TV show. It's fine if it happens. But for me, I like to be surprised or see it unfold without knowing what is going to happen completely when it comes to a movie. But that is just my preference and you have your preference, which is totally cool. Everyone has their own style of how they like to do things.

I know one thing I do at times that people don't get and drives some people crazy, that is similar to what you do, is that sometimes I open the comic to the last page to see what happens before I read it. I don't do it often, but I have done it before and still on occassion do it. So it is along the same lines in many respects to what you do reading wiki. So again, whatever works for people is totally up to them as long as it's not taking any enjoyment away from the person because really, why would anyone want to take any enjoyment away from themselves? That might be someone that needs psychological help. LOL

Matt

Royal_Lantern said:

Yeah, I totally get what you're saying and where you're coming from. And I'm not one to lose my mind when I am accidentally spoiled about something in a comic, movie, or TV show. It's fine if it happens. But for me, I like to be surprised or see it unfold without knowing what is going to happen completely when it comes to a movie. But that is just my preference and you have your preference, which is totally cool. Everyone has their own style of how they like to do things.

I know one thing I do at times that people don't get and drives some people crazy, that is similar to what you do, is that sometimes I open the comic to the last page to see what happens before I read it. I don't do it often, but I have done it before and still on occassion do it. So it is along the same lines in many respects to what you do reading wiki. So again, whatever works for people is totally up to them as long as it's not taking any enjoyment away from the person because really, why would anyone want to take any enjoyment away from themselves? That might be someone that needs psychological help. LOL

Only until about the start of CGS did I stop paging through a comic book before I actually began reading it. I loved to look at the art first and try to figure out where the story was going before actually reading it (I hate reading directions vs. looking at the illustrations).

M

David_D

@Matt - and this is not to judge it - it sounds like what you are looking to do is to control the experience ahead of the experience. That instead of the storytellers being in control of what order and in what way the information reaches you, you can instead circumvent that and arrive to the experience they have created more informed than they intended the audience to be. Does that sound about right?

Matt

David_D said:

@Matt - and this is not to judge it - it sounds like what you are looking to do is to control the experience ahead of the experience. That instead of the storytellers being in control of what order and in what way the information reaches you, you can instead circumvent that and arrive to the experience they have created more informed than they intended the audience to be. Does that sound about right?

Perhaps. I have always equated it to being a reverse engineer, which to some extent is what I do as an investigator. I know the outcome, but my job is to 'reverse engineer' how the outcome occurred.

I recall learning algebra in high school by using the answers in the back of the book. I found it easier to learn by seeing the question, seeing the answer, then back tracking to get the 'work' to see how to solve the equation myself. Strangely enough, I can do mazes quicker starting at the center and working outward then working toward the center.

M

Mr_Cosmic

Royal_Lantern said:

bring on the Quasar movie!!!

I'm adding you to my Christmas card mailing list.

alienal

I was pretty excited by this movie! I'm still behind in my listening but since I saw the movie last night (yes, even here in Japan!), I'll listen to this episode now. / To start: Yeah! I love to hear that old Cap theme song! / In terms of ranking the Marvel movies, after watching the movie I feel that Avengers is still tops, but the 2nd Thor movie is now #2 for me. This Cap would be #3 and Iron Man 3 would be #4. / (I think Matt's microphone volume is too low or he's not close enough) / Question: Murd accurately sums up the Falcon's background in the regular Marvel U., but aside from being a SHIELD agent, is his background much different? / I'm tending to agree with Matt about how Redford's presence made the movie MORE of a political thriller. His scene's with the Winter Soldier and the Council were pretty heavy. / As for the change in Hydra strategy: As Matt said, sooner or later Cap would figure it out and indeed, Fury had already figured it out! So, they had to do something sooner or later. / Mentions of New York invasion: well, it's getting farther and further away from that movie. Multiple mentions in Iron Man 3, fewer in Thor 2, and a couple in Cap 2. Time passes and that event becomes less important.

HannibalKing

Did the geeks do a Muddle The Murd or Deceive The D in this episode?

Royal_Lantern

I would give this movie a 5. I also gave Avengers a 5. I understand Jamie's reservations in giving anything else a 5 since he gave Avengers a 5, but I look at it as I have given multiple movies a 4 or a 4.5 or 3, etc. So multiple movies can be given a 5, and for me this is right up there with Avengers.

If I was ranking just the Marvel Studios movies that have come out in these Avengers related films, they would be this:

1) Avengers
2) Captain America: Winter Soldier
3) Iron Man
4) Captain America
5) Thor: The Dark World
6) Thor
7) Incredible Hulk
8) Iron Man 2
9) Iron Man 3

Nick

Maybe I missed it, but who is JP? At the beginning he introduced himself, but no one ever says who he is...a new geek? I know Jimmy is Deemer's cousin, but is this JP another mystery character like the Winter Soldier? Is he an agent of Hydra?! Will he blow up CGS from the inside out or reunite the fractured forces?! We'll have to wait and see true believers...

fredzilla

Adam_Murdough said:

'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' is already being called one of the best superhero movies made to date--now hear what WE have to say about the Shield-Slinger's second cinematic sortie! (Hint: it's pretty complimentary.) But be warned, if you enter this battlefield, expect to come under heavy SPOILER-fire! (1:13:55)

Listen here.

@Adam_Murdough‌, just looking at the title for some reason and I noticed it says "Episode 1745" instead of "1475". :-??