The Star Wars Expanded Universe is Officially Over

bralinator

Not sure why they made such a big announcement about getting a group of advisers together to decide what would be Star Wars canon and what wouldn't, but the EU is over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUm0Lo6DL-E

George Lucas described his relationship with the Expanded Universe in an interview with Starlog magazine:

"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy put a positive spin on it in the announcement.

"We're set to bring Star Wars back to the big screen, and continue the adventure through games, books, comics, and new formats that are just emerging. This future of interconnected storytelling will allow fans to explore this galaxy in deeper ways than ever before."

Lucasfilm sounded a bit desperate to reassure fans that those stories still count in some way. "While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded," the announcement reads. "Creators of new Star Wars entertainment have full access to the rich content of the Expanded Universe. For instance, the Inquisitor, the Imperial Security Bureau, and Sienar Fleet Systems are story elements in the new animated series, and all these ideas find their origins in roleplaying game material published in the 1980s."

They also promise to keep previous Expanded Universe stories in print under the "Legends" banner — perhaps indicating that sure, these are "legends" of the Star Wars universe, but may or may not have actually happened in this continuity.

So, I suppose that means the films and cartoon series is all canon and everything else is up for grabs. Does this also mean that the Holiday Special is canon?

Jersen

As I recall, back in the day there was a trilogy of novels published by Timothy Hahn that took place a few years after the conclusion of Return of the Jedi, and that trilogy of novels was endorsed by Lucas as post-film canon. I could be wrong, but I've been under that impression since they were published back in the '90s.

SolitaireRose

I know people are upset about this, but:

1) The books, comics and games are still there and you can dive in whenever you want.
2) The merch shouldn't drive the franchise
3) The new movies being sold to millions do NOT want to be tied to a complicated continuity that has only been read by thousands, and a diminishing number at that. How long has it been since a Star Wars novel hit the bestseller list?

hauberk

SolitaireRose said:

I know people are upset about this, but:

1) The books, comics and games are still there and you can dive in whenever you want.
2) The merch shouldn't drive the franchise
3) The new movies being sold to millions do NOT want to be tied to a complicated continuity that has only been read by thousands, and a diminishing number at that. How long has it been since a Star Wars novel hit the bestseller list?

Agreed and understood, however, I don't think that it's inappropriate to point out the hypocrisy of Lucas claiming to basically dismissing the EU and effectively claiming little to know knowledge of it (questionable given the stories of micromanaging that I'm sure that we've all heard) while embracing their incorporation into things like the toy line.

On a parallel note, I recently watched The People Vs. George Lucas on Netflix. Overall, it was a fair piece. What I found most fascinating was his testimony before Congress with regard to the Ted Turner colorization fiasco of the late 80's - early 90's where he said, in effect, that a film was a document that was, or should be frozen in time and that was, in effect, a record of the technique and technology associated with filmmaking at that time. Now, he may well have had some kind of epiphany, but again, there was strong language used on his part which is pretty indicting given his constant tinkering with the original trilogy.

bralinator

I think I've been anti-George Lucas after he mocked anyone that disagreed with his "Greedo Shot First" guffaw and insults. He came off as a bit of a toad.

raven

George Lucas described his relationship with the Expanded Universe in an interview with Starlog magazine: "I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

That was always BS, Lucas based the clone wars cartoon off john ostrander & jan duursema's run on star wars republic. aayla secura came from the comic book.

Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy put a positive spin on it in the announcement.
"We're set to bring Star Wars back to the big screen, and continue the adventure through games, books, comics, and new formats that are just emerging. This future of interconnected storytelling will allow fans to explore this galaxy in deeper ways than ever before."

Because they are too lazy to do a movie that will fit, yes there is too many deaths in the novels but they can write a couple of novels to resurrect them. Eventually these new books will clash with a movie or TV they want to do.

Lucasfilm sounded a bit desperate to reassure fans that those stories still count in some way. "While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded," the announcement reads. "Creators of new Star Wars entertainment have full access to the rich content of the Expanded Universe. For instance, the Inquisitor, the Imperial Security Bureau, and Sienar Fleet Systems are story elements in the new animated series, and all these ideas find their origins in roleplaying game material published in the 1980s."

They also promise to keep previous Expanded Universe stories in print under the "Legends" banner — perhaps indicating that sure, these are "legends" of the Star Wars universe, but may or may not have actually happened in this continuity.

So, I suppose that means the films and cartoon series is all canon and everything else is up for grabs. Does this also mean that the Holiday Special is canon?


Legends means this book don't mean s**t.

raven

Jersen said:

As I recall, back in the day there was a trilogy of novels published by Timothy Hahn that took place a few years after the conclusion of Return of the Jedi, and that trilogy of novels was endorsed by Lucas as post-film canon. I could be wrong, but I've been under that impression since they were published back in the '90s.

The books after ROTJ were canon they were told not to give luke skywalker a wife or children, then lucas said was not going to make episodes 7-9 so they married him off and gave him a kid.

SolitaireRose said:

I know people are upset about this, but:

1) The books, comics and games are still there and you can dive in whenever you want.
2) The merch shouldn't drive the franchise
3) The new movies being sold to millions do NOT want to be tied to a complicated continuity that has only been read by thousands, and a diminishing number at that. How long has it been since a Star Wars novel hit the bestseller list?

1. yes but there will be no new books continuing the stories, a lot of the dark horse comics can still go on.
2. but it fills their wallets.
3. you can write episode 7 without it starting up go read 40 novels and 300 comics and then come back and watch this movie. I think most people know how children happen.

SolitaireRose

raven said:

Jersen said:

As I recall, back in the day there was a trilogy of novels published by Timothy Hahn that took place a few years after the conclusion of Return of the Jedi, and that trilogy of novels was endorsed by Lucas as post-film canon. I could be wrong, but I've been under that impression since they were published back in the '90s.

The books after ROTJ were canon they were told not to give luke skywalker a wife or children, then lucas said was not going to make episodes 7-9 so they married him off and gave him a kid.

SolitaireRose said:

I know people are upset about this, but:

1) The books, comics and games are still there and you can dive in whenever you want.
2) The merch shouldn't drive the franchise
3) The new movies being sold to millions do NOT want to be tied to a complicated continuity that has only been read by thousands, and a diminishing number at that. How long has it been since a Star Wars novel hit the bestseller list?

then come back and watch this movie. I think most people know how children happen.

It's more than just kids...it's the fact that Luke fell to the Dark Side for a time, the way they worked through the fall of the Empire, the different invasion, the way the Jedi Knights were put back together and so on and so on.

The 6 movies are canon, everything else is not. Just like Star Trek where the moves and TV series are canon, and the comics, games, books etc... are not.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Maybe it's because the books slipped off my radar once they started making huge changes to the Star Wars universe and focused on characters that you would only know if you read ALL of the books. Kind of like how I quit reading the Star Trek novels when they did the same thing.

raven

SolitaireRose said:

It's more than just kids...it's the fact that Luke fell to the Dark Side for a time, the way they worked through the fall of the Empire, the different invasion, the way the Jedi Knights were put back together and so on and so on.

The 6 movies are canon, everything else is not. Just like Star Trek where the moves and TV series are canon, and the comics, games, books etc... are not.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Maybe it's because the books slipped off my radar once they started making huge changes to the Star Wars universe and focused on characters that you would only know if you read ALL of the books. Kind of like how I quit reading the Star Trek novels when they did the same thing.

dark empire is 6 years after ROTJ, episode 7 is suppose to be 20-30 years after ROTJ, in theory the empire would be gone & the jedi order will be back. (most likely episode 7-9 is the emperor's secret apprentice).

I believe the clone wars cartoon will still be canon

The books/comics have been going on for 23 years, they were eventually going to do other characters other than han, luke & leia. Most people by now I have heard of mara jade, grand admiral thrawn (there is a story we are never going to get what thrawn was really up to and that he was probably not a bad guy), etc.

There is a certain element that we sold these books as being canon.

Personally I prefer the stories to go onwards not stagnate, I prefer the same thing with the current star trek expanded universe. But neither is perfect.

luckymustard

raven said:

Jersen said:

As I recall, back in the day there was a trilogy of novels published by Timothy Hahn that took place a few years after the conclusion of Return of the Jedi, and that trilogy of novels was endorsed by Lucas as post-film canon. I could be wrong, but I've been under that impression since they were published back in the '90s.

The books after ROTJ were canon they were told not to give luke skywalker a wife or children, then lucas said was not going to make episodes 7-9 so they married him off and gave him a kid.

SolitaireRose said:

I know people are upset about this, but:

1) The books, comics and games are still there and you can dive in whenever you want.
2) The merch shouldn't drive the franchise
3) The new movies being sold to millions do NOT want to be tied to a complicated continuity that has only been read by thousands, and a diminishing number at that. How long has it been since a Star Wars novel hit the bestseller list?

1. yes but there will be no new books continuing the stories, a lot of the dark horse comics can still go on.
2. but it fills their wallets.
3. you can write episode 7 without it starting up go read 40 novels and 300 comics and then come back and watch this movie. I think most people know how children happen.

1. You're talking about the comics set way in the past? And I'm confused by you saying "there will be no new books..." There will be new books - John Jackson Miller writing "Star Wars: A New Dawn" coming out in September and other books scheduled after that. If your "no" was critical upon the idea of "continuing the stories", then what stories? I can't say as certainly as I just did about new books coming out, but it seems possible to me that new books could eventually be about just as a wide ranging span of time as they have been for the past 20 years.

luckymustard

And after writing that I go to Bleeding Cool and see this. Four covers with titles and authors...

I'm excited for the Luceno "Tarkin". Don't know the other two authors. "Heir to the Jedi" might be most critical to the new movies and pays homage to the EU resurgence's first book from about 1990, "Heir to the Empire".

CageNarleigh

Even though I'm fairly certain most of the fans on here already know this, I'm going to say here what I've been telling every person that asks me what I think about the Star Wars EU (particularly the Zahn novels) not being adapted.

"What would you rather have in Episode 7? A page by page adaptation of a novel? OR do you want to see Harrision Ford, Mark Hamill, and Carrie Fisher make an appearance? You can't have both."

luckymustard

CageNarleigh said:

"What would you rather have in Episode 7? A page by page adaptation of a novel? OR do you want to see Harrision Ford, Mark Hamill, and Carrie Fisher make an appearance? You can't have both."

Oh, that's right! Because the Zahn trilogy is set five years after Jedi. And they're 30 years older.

Mr_Cosmic

90% of the novels were crap. Most of the comics were "meh." I'm ready for a new EU.

bralinator

I guess this means I can kiss my dream of a Jaxxon appearance in Episode VII goodbye...

raven

luckymustard said:

raven said:

Jersen said:

As I recall, back in the day there was a trilogy of novels published by Timothy Hahn that took place a few years after the conclusion of Return of the Jedi, and that trilogy of novels was endorsed by Lucas as post-film canon. I could be wrong, but I've been under that impression since they were published back in the '90s.

The books after ROTJ were canon they were told not to give luke skywalker a wife or children, then lucas said was not going to make episodes 7-9 so they married him off and gave him a kid.

SolitaireRose said:

I know people are upset about this, but:

1) The books, comics and games are still there and you can dive in whenever you want.
2) The merch shouldn't drive the franchise
3) The new movies being sold to millions do NOT want to be tied to a complicated continuity that has only been read by thousands, and a diminishing number at that. How long has it been since a Star Wars novel hit the bestseller list?

1. yes but there will be no new books continuing the stories, a lot of the dark horse comics can still go on.
2. but it fills their wallets.
3. you can write episode 7 without it starting up go read 40 novels and 300 comics and then come back and watch this movie. I think most people know how children happen.

1. You're talking about the comics set way in the past? And I'm confused by you saying "there will be no new books..." There will be new books - John Jackson Miller writing "Star Wars: A New Dawn" coming out in September and other books scheduled after that. If your "no" was critical upon the idea of "continuing the stories", then what stories? I can't say as certainly as I just did about new books coming out, but it seems possible to me that new books could eventually be about just as a wide ranging span of time as they have been for the past 20 years.

I said "there will be no new books continuing the stories" in novels what happens after "Crucible". In comics there is a lot of ongoing mini series from dark horse, which marvel may have picked up to create interest in their books, eg Agent of the Empire, dark times, Dawn of the Jedi, Knight Errant, Knights of the Old Republic & Lost Tribe of the Sith.

These new novels are part of the "playing it safe" novels that they have been putting out already.

WetRats

Good move.

spid

I would say it is a perfectly reasonable move.

raven

"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians [...]." ―George Lucas in 1988

bralinator

It is very easy to bash George Lucas. He's done it to himself. However, it is hard to disagree that this was their best move - for many reasons. And none of those reasons benefit the fans of the EU, but they serve the creators that are handling these licensed properties going forward.

Much like DC's recent revamp of all of their once beloved properties, recognizing that these familiar characters are no more than licensed properties to exploit makes it a bit easier to swallow.

Torchsong

I don't worry about this crazy thing called "Canon" anymore. It'll just break your heart. Just enjoy the stories you like and stop worrying so much about whether they're "real" or not. They are and they aren't. :)

Krescan

a little sad that I might have to experience the death of a certain character twice now

luckymustard

New thread for this?

I'm trying to nail down who in this picture is who. My best guesses...

WetRats

I hope Serkis gets to play an actual, Andy Serkis-faced human...

Yeah right, "Didja bring your mocap suit, Andy?"

luckymustard

Rebel Force Radio that I'm listening to is saying Max von Sydow is who I have as Anthony Daniels. And who I have has Sydow is Lawrence Kasdan. Further, the one person I don't have noted apparently is Andy Serkis, which means I have my note for Serkis wrong, and that person is Brian Burke?

Again, per RFR, Daisy Ridley is between Ford and Fisher because maybe she's their daughter?

Mr_Cosmic

Harrison Ford (1), Daisy Ridley (2), Carrie Fisher (3), Peter Mayhew (4), Producer Bryan Burk (5), Lucasfilm President and Producer Kathleen Kennedy (6), Domhnall Gleeson (7), Anthony Daniels (8), Mark Hamill (9), Andy Serkis (10), Oscar Isaac (11), John Boyega (12), Adam Driver (13) Lawrence Kasdan (14) J.J Abrams, (15)

bralinator

WetRats said:

I hope Serkis gets to play an actual, Andy Serkis-faced human...

Yeah right, "Didja bring your mocap suit, Andy?"

He's playing Jar-Jar's son I think.

Ooh, a black & white pic and minimal decor. How authentic. I sense this film may turn out to be a turkey....

Any ideas why Peter Mayhew is even being bothered with this? Couldn't they find an athletic 7 foot tall dude? He's no Andy Serkis for sure. Oh, hang on... hmm.. there may still be a New Hope for this yet. I don't see George Lucas anywhere!

That's it. Looks like I'll probably be seeing this in the theater, (unlike Episode III).

Mr_Cosmic

Kenny Baker in the crate?

Royal_Lantern

I have been a lifelong Star Wars fan and a huge fan of the EU (duh, if you look at my podcast it's pretty obvious). I own all 150+ novels and I own all of the Dark Horse comics in one form or another. I love the stories and the continuity that was created to expand this universe.

I am not upset about the news of the past EU ending. When you look at it, it had to. There would be no way to really do the new movies with any justice if you were tied to what was done in the books and comics. So I am looking forward to this new start and seeing what they do with it. And as said above, those stories are still there for me to read anytime I want to (and to have the fun of still collecting them, I am going to try to get the floppies of everything that I only have in trade form).

I am excited for the new start. I think they are crazy for thinking that they will be able to have everything count going forward as offical canon (comics, TV, books, everything). It wasn't possible to be done with the past EU as much as they tried and I find it hard to accomplish for this new EU, but I hope they can pull it off.

I am excited to see the cast together and can't wait to see what comes out at the end. It's going to be a great ride for me and I get positive chills just thinking about new Star Wars movies all over again (yes, I was excited about the Prequels and I was let down a bit, but I don't hate the Prequels and I'm grateful for them with all of the EU that came out because of them.) I will remain hopeful that these new films will be amazing, and I will be there opening night to see them.

WetRats

bralinator said:

Ooh, a black & white pic and minimal decor. How authentic.

Looks like an authentic table read to me.

bralinator

So I'm being cynical.

What do you suppose Peter Mayhew's lines are?