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Super Serious Collector/Asset Talk
BlackUmbrella
Posts: 208
Looking for a little clarity from those of you with a particular genius in this area.
It has come to my attention that some of my 60s/70s comics (key Batman issues with Neal adams art/covers in VF to NM, etc.) have really jumped in value in recent years, and I'm thinking it's time for me to take their preservation a little more seriously. I left pedantic comic collecting for relaxed comic reading years ago, so these key issues just sit bagged and boarded in one rarely opened long box that contains the remnant of my old collection.
I have concluded the following, based on watching YouTube videos of preservation panel discussions:
- There's no point in sending the books to have them graded/slabbed until I plan to sell them, as they have to be reslabbed repeatedly to avoid the collection of gasses inside the slabs that cause damage to the pages.
- If I keep them bagged and boarded, even the highest quality bags and boards have to be swapped out every few years or so in order to avoid damage to the pages and gloss.
- The primary variable between books that remain in preserved condition with cover gloss and white pages is compression, to prevent exposure to air. Unbagged books in a heavy stack, if unexposed to sunlight or extreme heat, will age very slowly.
So this is what I am considering for the 20 or so key books I want to keep as financial assets: I plan to put the raw books in plasticizer-free rigid plastic toploaders, place them in a small fireproof safe with a metal silica desiccant pack inside, and keep them in a cool, dry area of the basement. Think that's a good plan?
(I notice that many people bag the comic, and place the bagged comic inside the rigid toploader. This seems redundant to me. Am I missing something?)
It has come to my attention that some of my 60s/70s comics (key Batman issues with Neal adams art/covers in VF to NM, etc.) have really jumped in value in recent years, and I'm thinking it's time for me to take their preservation a little more seriously. I left pedantic comic collecting for relaxed comic reading years ago, so these key issues just sit bagged and boarded in one rarely opened long box that contains the remnant of my old collection.
I have concluded the following, based on watching YouTube videos of preservation panel discussions:
- There's no point in sending the books to have them graded/slabbed until I plan to sell them, as they have to be reslabbed repeatedly to avoid the collection of gasses inside the slabs that cause damage to the pages.
- If I keep them bagged and boarded, even the highest quality bags and boards have to be swapped out every few years or so in order to avoid damage to the pages and gloss.
- The primary variable between books that remain in preserved condition with cover gloss and white pages is compression, to prevent exposure to air. Unbagged books in a heavy stack, if unexposed to sunlight or extreme heat, will age very slowly.
So this is what I am considering for the 20 or so key books I want to keep as financial assets: I plan to put the raw books in plasticizer-free rigid plastic toploaders, place them in a small fireproof safe with a metal silica desiccant pack inside, and keep them in a cool, dry area of the basement. Think that's a good plan?
(I notice that many people bag the comic, and place the bagged comic inside the rigid toploader. This seems redundant to me. Am I missing something?)
Comments
If you're planning to sell these within the next year or two, I'd suggest slabbing them and being done with it. If you intend to keep them long term, I think top loaders in the safe in the basement should be fine.
I'm no expert in this field, I'm just fond of the medium.
The only problem with stiff top loaders is any imperfection can scratch the comic. So I would bag it, then put it in the top-loader. Store the comics tightly and vertically. Do not stack them. If necessary, use a short box and fill it with other comics or whatever to stack them tightly.
Not sure what the fire proof safe does for you. Depending on the fire and the length of time, it won't protect the contents from combusting after a certain period of time. And then I would question the potential smoke damage. If you're really concerned, buy insurance. You should be able to do it as a rider on your home policy, just like jewelry. (That's the architect in me speaking).
Unless you are going to sell them thru ebay and want to ensure the buyer the grade of the book, there is no need to slab the books. You can find a serious collector who will be willing to buy them from you without third-party grading. Plan on selling them for about 70% of guide. (Do the math….. you make the same amount of money because you will not have ebay, pay pal, shipping, slabbing fees).
Now all of that said…. I had a high-grade run of Neal Adams Detective Comics. They were a tough sell. Most serious collectors have those books in high grade and well…. Batman isn't as popular as you'd think. If memory serves me correctly, I finally sold them to a local Batman collector who flipped them on ebay. He sells on ebay to support his own collection. He bought a lot of books from me. I think those books are over-valued by the guides. Find my thread about selling my collection for more detailed comments on price guides.
I figured this thread would bring you out to play, but I had a question about your selling of the collection. Maybe you've answered this in your thread, but I'm lazy right now.
In your experience what type of comics were easy to unload and fetched the best price (outside of early Marvel books)? My guess would have been war or westerns because they crossed into 2 collecting fan bases.
The stuff that sold well was the Marvel Silver and Bronze titles. Tales to Astonish, Tales of Suspense, Capt. America, DD, FF, ASM, Sgt Fury. The DC stuff sold very slow. I had a full runs of Kirby's Jimmy Olsen, Mister Miracle, and Kamandi. I gave my Kirby run of the Losers (Our Fighting Forces) to a forum member. Aparo's run on the Spectre in Adventures…. Great stories…. little interest from collectors.
The modern stuff…. even the MacFarlane ASM runs….. are bulk fodder.
In assessing the value of the books, I'm counting a bit on slab fever, as there is a considerable jump in cost for slabbed books. We'll have to see how that goes in the future. I'm assuming I'll get lower grades than I expect to get, as that seems common.
My current hobby is collecting coins, and that market has been utterly transformed by grading/slabbing. In fact, except for seasoned graders, the current conventional wisdom is that coins of any significant value should not be purchased unless they have been graded and slabbed, and the premium for slabbed coins is often very high (regardless of scarcity, although common coins in perfect graded condition become scarce in their own right).
The reader market in comics will never go down that road, but I believe the manic collectors will, particularly because hard-to-detect restored comics are so much lower in value. I'm looking at a handful of specific books, so hopefully if I ever decide to unload them I can take the time to find the right buyer.
Speaking from experience, the Neal Adams Batman books aren't as highly sought after as we are led to believe. Those of us who would be old enough to want them have them. Its an issue of demographics. There are only a few "Keys" in those runs (Ra's al Ghul, Two-Face, Man-bat) And if you decide to have an auction house handle the sale, expect 20-30% to go in fees. So again… you're back to the 70% of guide
If you took a poll here …. I bet there wouldn't be many forum members that have paid hundreds of dollars for a single issue. I think the most I ever paid was $300 for a VG+ copy of Superman #12. When I paid $75 for ASM #1 in 1976, that was considered astronomical. HaHa. And I was 15 years old at the time. My point being - its a very small segment of the market that will pay high dollars for slabbed non-key issues. :(
Talk to a well-known dealer for advice. Ask them their opinion of the Price Guide. Most that I've known over the years are of the opinion that 10% of the books are at value, 10% are below value and 80% are over-valued. (I hope that makes sense) BTW - Be very very leary of dealers/auction houses that publish and send news releases about the key issue they just sold for big bucks. Again…. talk to long time dealers. Some of those "deals" were not all cash, but involved trades and so on. This helps increase the value of the lower end books which don't normally increase over time. So when a 9.6 copy of AF #15 for $100K, it drives the market up on lower end books which normally wouldn't increase in value. There is a lot of market manipulation that occurs.
I recommend reading through Chuck Rozanski's Tales from the Database, in particular read the one's about slabbing and grading.
The Chaos of Upper End Grading Standards
Corruption & Manipulation Creep into the Back Issue Comics Market
Fooling Bob Overstreet, and Other Fun Games.
In the coin market, the truism is to "buy the coin, not the slab", as it is a given that the grading can be arbitrary and inconsistent. There are two competing top-tier grading services, NGC (the coin branch of CGC), and PCGS. Plus a couple of second tier grading services, whose slabs do not impact value as much.
Collectors routinely crack coins out of slabs and resubmit them for grading, either to a company they suspect is consistently easier on the particular flaws of a coin, or even to the same company, hoping for an upgrade - which they frequently will get, boosting the value of the coin.
Grading is arbitrary, there's no getting around that. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in comics.
The loose stack in your basement only works well if you're in the desert like Edgar Church. :)
Agree with phansford on insurance though most homeowners companies won't give a rider for comics - but the insurance is relatively cheap from specialized underwriters.
If it's a small stack you may consider a safe deposit box as better than a fire safe.
The most expensive book I've ever purchased was from phansford. ;)