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Episode 1488 Talkback - Spotlight on The Fantastic Four in the Bronze Age
Adam_Murdough
Posts: 506
The Lee/Kirby stories of the Silver Age are a tough act to follow, but the Fantastic Four in the Bronze Age has a lot to offer the interested reader as well, as this episode endeavors to prove! Inside you'll find scripts by Thomas and Conway, pencils by Perez and Pollard and Buckler and Buscema, and covers by Kirby; Medusa and Luke Cage as substitute FFers; Earth (TWO of 'em!) under siege by Galactus; the emergence of Franklin Richards' powers; the menace of Overmind; the courtship of Crystal and Quicksilver; the return of the Impossible Man; the deposition of Dr. Doom; and other '70s sensations sampled from the second 100 issues of the World's Greatest Comic Magazine. Excelsior! (1:52:38)
Listen here.
Listen here.
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Also, my quarter-jar sense was tingling all through this episode. Please correct Chris on his pronunciations of Joe Sinnott’s and Ramona Fradon’s last names. It’s SIN-ut and FRAY-dun.
The earliest was released by Golden Records in 1966
it's a word for word reading (with sound effects) of FF #1. It's not the best quality. The first time I listened to it, I was wearing headphones. The "turn the page" voice is so load that it scared the crap out of me.
A much better listen is the Amazing Spider-Man released by BBC Radio in 1995.
Yeah, I know. The title is Amazing Spider-man, but the FF have just as much air time as Spidey. This is very good!
I also have a book and cassette release called, The Island of Danger.
The most interesting thing about this release is the cover artist.
A couple of points to add to your recollections....during the broadcast you mentioned Darkoth the Death
Demon with his 1st appearance in issue 142, but didn't get to talking about his later (last?) appearance in #193-194, part if the "solo issues" you alluded to after the FF split in 191. This was a solo Ben Grimm story, and it revealed that Darkoth was an old buddy of Ben's - Desmond Pitt. Unfortunately they didn't carry that much further because if I recall correctly by the end of 194 Desmond sacrificed himself to save Ben from the clutches of Diablo - the villain who'd taken control of Darkoth after Doom.
One other point about the Doom saga that culminated in #200 that I thought was worth mentioning...from 192-196 Reed had been unwittingly hired by Doom (with his clone secretly running things) to take part in a massive, secret project.....so secret that each of the scientists hired to take part in it were only made aware of the portion of the final product that they were contributing to. Anyway, by 197 it's revealed that the "big project" is a spaceship specifically designed to carry Reed into space and return his powers. He does so, and after also inadvertently reviving the Red Ghost, returns to Latveria to face Doom, having by now guessed that Doom wanted to restore Richards to full power in order that he could defeat his arch nemeses at their full strength.
Also, one note on FF 104--the end of that Magneto storyline. I seem to recall this being distinguished as the first time Magneto had been truly defeated and basically carted off to prison (albeit as you said on the podcast, not for long). In his previous defeats in the silver age, he either was presumed dead, taken away by a cosmic being (the Stranger), or in some cases he simply got away or fled the scene.
Also note in FF 176-177 -- while the Frightful Four are holding tryouts, they're also holding the FF for ransom. In 177 they show a few amusing scenes with outgoing President Gerald Ford, President-elect Jimmy Carter, and even a scene with Ronald Reagan if I recall correctly, with each reacting to the ransom demand. These issues still to this day remain among my favorites. I still crack up when Captain Ultra auditions for the evil FF and then faints when the Wizard strikes a match because he's got a phobia of fire, and how Johnny makes a wise crack to them about it while still being held captive by them.
Anyway, I could go on ad-nauseum about this era of the FF, especially the latter half.....including the post 200 pre-Byrne issues, that I hope you include at the beginning of your next FF spotlight...looking forward to it!
In FF 320 Pineapple Thing finally beat Grey Hulk decisively (naturally in the Hulk's own book they then had a rematch :) )
In FF 166 Ben knocked out the Hulk with a single punch. (After Johnny shot flame at him and Sue cut off his air supply)
In Giant Size FF 1, the Thing's body defeats the Hulk's body (they switched minds).
In the early days they were officially equal, except the Hulk was larger (see the letters page to FF 108)
After FF 133 Ben was portrayed as progressively weaker, and by the 1980s almost everybody assumed he was a second tier powerhouse. Today he's the Whorf character, the one others beat to show how strong they are. I honestly don't recognize the FF from the 1990s and later.
I discuss Ben's strength at length on my web site, including why he lacks confidence and unconsciously holds back . I don't know if we're allowed to post links but just Google "Fantastic Four the Great American Novel" and look for "how strong is the Thing?"
Keep up the good work!
As far as Thing beating Hulk, maybe the closest Ben has to a win is FF #320 by Englehart (with an assist from Hulk writer Peter David), as Mr. Fixit Hulk agrees to fight Thing after an appeal from Dr. Doom, but Thing doesn't realize he's fighting the real Hulk, and with his recent re-mutation and strength increase and Hulk's decreased strength, Thing controls the fight until another green Hulk shows up (it's a robot), allowing Fixit to escape. Oh, I see tolworthy just posted this before I got the chance to. Since he's promoting his site, I'm going to promote mine, a humorous comic review blog over at: http://thepouchfiles.blogspot.com/ I think you'll find it's more fun than a weekend with Batman.
Also a minor quibble, I try not to get annoyed by variations in pronouncing proper character names, but "Mephisto" is "Muh-Fis-Toh," not Meh-fisto, at least according to the Faustian version, and that's how it's been pronounced in Marvel media. The emphasis isn't on the first vowel- that would be like calling that purple helmeted guy "Maaag-net-o."
https://archive.org/details/FantasticFour-10Episodes
Also, here's a link to a dramatization of same done on Youtube with the original art from issue #4:
I love the bronze age of the FF. Everytime my family went on road trips, my parents would buy me comics to look through/read in the car and it was always the Fantastic Four that they grabbed for me.
The Hanna-Barbera Thing cartoon was awesome! I loved that show. I've talked about this before, I would find whatever I could to use as rings and every single time teenage ben would put those rings together and say "Thing ring do your thing!" I would jump and do the same thing. It's a much better show than some of the other stuff being put at by HB at the time and later.
The 1978 Fantastic Four cartoon was fun to watch too. I understand why Johnny wasn't in it, but HERBIE wasn't a bad substitute in terms of the rivalry with Ben.
That just proves that Chris Eberle needs to be on these forums :)
I'm looking forward to the 80's because of Byrne and the 2000's for Waid through Hickman...the 90s? Ugh, some really bad stuff but some gems too.
I've said it before in other threads but the FF is my all time favorite comic. Thanks for taking the time and doing these spotlights. Bringing your kids to the studio so you can get these episodes out? Wow! You guys are awesome and the work you do is much appreciated..thanks!!
Issue #179 ("A Robinson Crusoe in the Negative Zone") especially stuck with me all these years (I bought it off the rack as a wee lad). The scene where Reed Richards manages to start a fire in the Negative Zone and attracts a bat like creature that makes a tough meal to eat. As he comments on the leathery taste and bad smell, back on Earth, Tigra and Thing are waiting to eat a fine diner. Great stuff by Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway with quintessential house style pencils by Ron Wilson. I think this arc is finally resolved in issue 183 and Reed is without his powers.
I was also a huge fan of the issues leading up to issue #200 regarding Dr Doom's son/clone. Also bought those off the spinner rack. What a great era! I just finished the Byrne Fantastic Four omnibus, so I'm looking forward to your next spotlight on the FF, but please don't skim over the cosmic themed material from 204 - 214 This BIG arc is referred to "In Search of Galactus" where they needed him to help them defeat the Sphinx. I think Byrne began doing pencils midway though this long storyline, around issue 209. Good, good stuff. Thanks for covering this material guys.
And a big YES to future spotlights mentioned in this episode: Inhumans, Black Panther, and as always I request Marvel Cosmic, where the FF can be a perfect launch point to this epic portion of the MU.
P.S. As for the reason H.E.R.B.I.E. replaced Johnny Storm in the FF cartoon, @Adam_Murdough is absolutely right in his recollection. The full story can be read here.
Great job in the Producer's chair @ShaneKelly - Jamie would be proud :)
I listened to the first 2 episodes yesterday. Very well done stuff. I had no idea that radio dramas were still being made in the States by the 70s.
I have watched the Thing cartoon though (thankyou 1980s TBS & USA). "Thing Ring do your thing"