She-Hulk Cancelled?

ccocking

That really sucks. This has been such a good book. I love when we get these kind of views of the Marvel world. This book focused on She-Hulk's life as a lawyer and how that intertwines with her life in the Super Hero community. The inclusion of a great side cast: Patsy Walker (Hellcat), Angie and Hei Hei the monkey all made for such a great, funny book. This was a good comic.

I'm sure Shulkie will get another book at some point, and I'm sure someone will say "Make it more mainstream and super-heroic", and I'm sure many fans will praise the shift in focus to "big-action" and an art style that is more in line with the typical super hero book, but this is the kind of book I wish we could see more of. What does it's cancellation say? Is there no more room in the Marvel line for a book like this or Alias or Dakota North? They better not cancel Black Widow.

TheOriginalGMan

I agree. Great, great book. The recent story arc with her defending Steve Rogers in a wrongful death suit with the plaintiffs being represented by Matt Murdock? Gold, Jerry! Gold!

bralinator

@ccocking and @TheOriginalGMan, I concur. Please voice your displeasure by writing an email to the editors using the following email address.

Heroes office: mheroes@marvel.com

nweathington

With rare exceptions, this type of book has always had trouble surviving at Marvel or DC. Add to that: 1) She-Hulk not only features a female lead, but a mostly female cast; 2) Though Pulido is one of Marvel's best artists, he does not fit into the traditional mold and I'm sure a lot of fans are turned off by his work (there were quite a few negative comments on this board as I recall); 3) Comics ain't cheap, and most buyers stick with their few favorite characters; and 4) She-Hulk wasn't duking it out with a major villain every month. Really, I'm happy it lasted as long as it did. When it comes to books like She-Hulk, I just try to enjoy them while they last.

bralinator

nweathington said:

When it comes to books like She-Hulk, I just try to enjoy them while they last.

Indeed.

I'm also disappointed to see one of the remaining few $2.99 books going away. That price point has become a rarity at Marvel unfortunately.

Hex

Let's face it, poor Shulkie has NEVER been able to sustain a solo title. How many kicks at the can has she had? 5? 6? I've lost count. I've bought them all, and pretty much enjoyed the majority of her various incarnations. Kudos to Marvel for continuing to give her (and the creatives that love her) another chance. We all knew this latest book wouldn't last long.

Regardless, it is a shame. Pulido's artwork may be a little "off-putting" to some, but his storytelling is KILLER. His attention to little details and facial expressions add so so SO much. I just read issue #10 this morning... Damn, that is some fine comics right there. I don't often re-read my comics, but I'll have another go at #10 at least a couple more times before it goes into a longbox. Charles Soule has done a fantastic job of building a great little corner of the Marvel universe for Jen and her pals (Hellcat!), and it felt like he was just getting started.

Can't wait for Titania next issue (classic!). Sad there are only 2 issues left to go.

did I mention Hellcat?
I wouldn't refer to Pulido's artwork as "sexy", but that stealth suit? - MEOW!

LibraryBoy

Yeah, She-Hulk has been great, and I'm sad to see it go, but I'm happy we got the stories that we got (well, except for those two issues with that awful fill-in artist). It's like Fearless Defenders last year... sure, I would have liked to see more, but at least what we did get was enjoyable so I'm happy for that.

LibraryBoy

Plus, I agree with @Hex‌... more Hellcat is always a good thing.

DoctorDoom

LibraryBoy said:

Yeah, She-Hulk has been great, and I'm sad to see it go, but I'm happy we got the stories that we got (well, except for those two issues with that awful fill-in artist). It's like Fearless Defenders last year... sure, I would have liked to see more, but at least what we did get was enjoyable so I'm happy for that.

Fearless Defenders! :'(

jaydee74

I was enjoying this but I wonder if these 12 issues was what Charles Soule had in mind from the beginning. I think I'll get these in what will hopefully be 2 trades. I'll miss this title.

bralinator

@jaydee74 I read somewhere that Soule had 12 issues for his pitch and that's what Marvel contracted him for with the option to extend if they decided to. So it will get a solid conclusion. I think Shulkie has had success this time though and even longer runs in the past. They will likely do this in two trades but since I have all these in floppies, I'd prefer one single collected edition. Or at least one that leaves the Wimberly issues out..........

jaydee74

@Actually, I'd would want one volume with all 12 issues. I disliked the art from Wimberly but I loved the story so while I get why you wouldn't want those issues in, I would want everything in there.

bralinator

jaydee74 said:

@Actually, I'd would want one volume with all 12 issues. I disliked the art from Wimberly but I loved the story so while I get why you wouldn't want those issues in, I would want everything in there.

I believe we can all agree on that.

demonbear

i really love these 'fringe' books and am just really bummed that i won't be able to get my fix of She-Hulk AND Hawkeye...

demonbear

oh, and x-factor too! i wish they would let these series' end on maxi-series type numbering (12, 24 or 25), but that's just the old completist in me... :)

Torchsong

I read the first trade and to be honest? It just wasn't for me. The writing was clever, but not nearly on par with what had come before it (not just Slott, but Byrne's work as well). The artwork, as well, was just plain wrong for this type of book. I can understand why it turned away many readers.

This is not what I'm looking for in a She-Hulk book, so I'm not too surprised it got canceled. I can appreciate that Marvel tried to break some new ground with her...but in my book it's an A for effort and a D- for execution.

jaydee74

I thought the stories were great. I agree about the art. It was good but I thought it would have been better for another book. For me, this was the first time where I was buying a book strictly on the strength of it's writing and not so much on the art where I usually like a nice medium between the two.

DennisCuzinski

Torchsong said:

I read the first trade and to be honest? It just wasn't for me. The writing was clever, but not nearly on par with what had come before it (not just Slott, but Byrne's work as well). The artwork, as well, was just plain wrong for this type of book. I can understand why it turned away many readers.

This is not what I'm looking for in a She-Hulk book, so I'm not too surprised it got canceled. I can appreciate that Marvel tried to break some new ground with her...but in my book it's an A for effort and a D- for execution.

Byrne's She-Hulk is a top-10 all time book for me, and I dug Slott's as well

nweathington

Which goes back to my second point in my earlier post. Personally, the only reason I picked up the book to begin with was because Pulido was going to be drawing it. The fact that the stories were well written, with a nice blend of humor and action and a focus on Jen’s day job, was a great bonus.

I totally get why people don't like Pulido’s work—or why they might like his work on other things, but not on She-Hulk—but I completely disagree that he was “just plain wrong for this type of book.” You're very welcome to your opinion, but I thought he was a great fit for the tone of the book.

I know some people on other threads here have said that Pulido doesn’t draw She-Hulk pretty enough or sexy enough, but that’s rather contrary to the focus of the book, which is all about her personality, her legal career, and her emotions. In other words, the book is working very hard (consciously or unconsciously, I don't know) to de-objectify her as a character.

For me, it’s an A for effort and an A- for execution (deducting for Wimberly’s rather bleh two issues).

bralinator

nweathington said:

Which goes back to my second point in my earlier post. Personally, the only reason I picked up the book to begin with was because Pulido was going to be drawing it. The fact that the stories were well written, with a nice blend of humor and action and a focus on Jen’s day job, was a great bonus.

I totally get why people don't like Pulido’s work—or why they might like his work on other things, but not on She-Hulk—but I completely disagree that he was “just plain wrong for this type of book.” You're very welcome to your opinion, but I thought he was a great fit for the tone of the book.

I know some people on other threads here have said that Pulido doesn’t draw She-Hulk pretty enough or sexy enough, but that’s rather contrary to the focus of the book, which is all about her personality, her legal career, and her emotions. In other words, the book is working very hard (consciously or unconsciously, I don't know) to de-objectify her as a character.

And here is that earlier thread over in Candidates For The Cancellation Calvacade

nweathington said:

For me, it’s an A for effort and an A- for execution (deducting for Wimberly’s rather bleh two issues).

And while I wasn't exactly agreeing with you in that other thread, I do certainly agree with this statement. I was won over.

TheOriginalGMan

I didn't mind the artwork. There were a lot of times though where he'd draw her face from the front and she just looked weird.

Torchsong

nweathington said:

I totally get why people don't like Pulido’s work—or why they might like his work on other things, but not on She-Hulk—but I completely disagree that he was “just plain wrong for this type of book.” You're very welcome to your opinion, but I thought he was a great fit for the tone of the book.

Slott achieved that same tone without having the book sacrifice in terms of making She-Hulk/Jennifer (for want of a better word) "ugly". And that's where the disconnect lies - if I'm spending too much time deciphering what the artist is going for on each panel, it's drawing me out of whatever Soule was trying to accomplish with his writing.

I have no problem with Pulido's particular style, but I don't feel She-Hulk was the best vehicle to showcase it. I'd love to see him on an Inhumans book or possibly even taking the reins over on Ms. Marvel if an artist position on that book were to open up. I could see him doing quite well on something like that. She-Hulk simply didn't work, at least not for me.

nweathington

I didn't read Slott’s run. I heard good things about it, but everytime I'd look at it on the rack at my LCS, I'd put it back because the artwork didn't appeal to me in the least.

bralinator

nweathington said:

I didn't read Slott’s run. I heard good things about it, but everytime I'd look at it on the rack at my LCS, I'd put it back because the artwork didn't appeal to me in the least.

Maybe you're referring to some of the garish Greg Horn painted covers? I have all 5 trades and I think the Juan Bobillo art does an exceptional balancing act of keeping Shulkie attractive without being gratuitous while still rendering the characters and settings in a comedic, fun, dynamic way. I think it was Bobillo's longest stint on any title, all written by Dan Slott (2004-2006), and was his highest profile gig up to that time.

nweathington

bralinator said:

nweathington said:

I didn't read Slott’s run. I heard good things about it, but everytime I'd look at it on the rack at my LCS, I'd put it back because the artwork didn't appeal to me in the least.

Maybe you're referring to some of the garish Greg Horn painted covers? I have all 5 trades and I think the Juan Bobillo art does an exceptional balancing act of keeping Shulkie attractive without being gratuitous while still rendering the characters and settings in a comedic, fun, dynamic way. I think it was Bobillo's longest stint on any title, all written by Dan Slott (2004-2006), and was his highest profile gig up to that time.

Nope, not thinking of the Horn covers, but I don't think it was Bobillo either. Maybe it was Pelletier, who I like well enough, but find a bit bland at times.

Bobillo isn't bad. The above page makes me think “poor man’s Kevin Maguire” though. I went through a bunch of Bobillo's stuff online now, and his storytelling is pretty good, and his figure designs are somewhat interesting (his non-superhero stuff is far more interesting than his superhero stuff). What I saw of his She-Hulk work looks a bit stiff to me. He could really have used a better inker. Mark Farmer could have done wonders for him.

To be honest, if he had been drawing the current series, I probably wouldn't have picked it up. It's good work, but it doesn't reach out and slap me and scream, “BUY ME!” like Pulido does for me.

jaydee74

Is that from the Dan Slott run? I must have it. That looks awesome.

bralinator

nweathington said:

Bobillo isn't bad. The above page makes me think “poor man’s Kevin Maguire” though. I went through a bunch of Bobillo's stuff online now, and his storytelling is pretty good, and his figure designs are somewhat interesting (his non-superhero stuff is far more interesting than his superhero stuff). What I saw of his She-Hulk work looks a bit stiff to me. He could really have used a better inker. Mark Farmer could have done wonders for him. It's good work, but it doesn't reach out and slap me and scream, “BUY ME!” like Pulido does for me.

An excellent example of how tastes vary. I think that I am one of those fans that appreciate the current run for the writing and occasionally get "wowed" by some of the art design. The earlier series with Bobillo was more than adequate draftsmanship with an emphasis on illustration over graphic design. I like it better and I think Slott did a great jibe (at least the first 80% of the run). If you can overlook your disregard for the art it's very well written and fun. It took me back to the Byrne work on the previous series.

jaydee74 said:

Is that from the Dan Slott run? I must have it. That looks awesome.

Yep. It's fun and all available in tpbs too.

nweathington

bralinator said:

If you can overlook your disregard for the art it's very well written and fun.

It's not so much that I’m disregarding the art, I just have so many other things to read, I don't need to spend my time with something that doesn’t bowl me over. I've got a stack of OGNs and trades almost as tall as me waiting to be read, plus a 12-inch stack of single issues. Who needs Bobillo when I’ve got Paul Pope, Sergio Toppi, and Juanjo Guarnido waiting for me, know what I mean?

Evening639

nweathington said:

In other words, the book is working very hard (consciously or unconsciously, I don't know) to de-objectify her as a character.

Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti accomplished this with Power Girl and Amanda Conner still drew Karen as being a very attractive woman. In fact, Amanda Conner really embraced the sexuality of the character and that run is probably the best Power Girl has ever been. And, more recently, David Lopez's interpretation of Carol Danvers is also pretty standard. Her costume isn't revealing anymore but she's still drawn as an attractive woman.

Charles Soule is just as good of a writer as Gray and Palmiotti and Kelly Sue DeConnick, so I think that having a more standard visual take on She-Hulk wouldn't have really distracted from the focus at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way criticizing Pulido's artwork. I just don't think it's application on She-Hulk was necessary. What Michael Allred is doing on Silver Surfer fits that book much better and books of that nature are really where more stylized art belongs.

This is, of course, only my opinion. In the end, it's really all subjective, though, and that's the beautiful thing about art.

nweathington

Evening639 said:

nweathington said:

In other words, the book is working very hard (consciously or unconsciously, I don't know) to de-objectify her as a character.

Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti accomplished this with Power Girl and Amanda Conner still drew Karen as being a very attractive woman. In fact, Amanda Conner really embraced the sexuality of the character and that run is probably the best Power Girl has ever been. And, more recently, David Lopez's interpretation of Carol Danvers is also pretty standard. Her costume isn't revealing anymore but she's still drawn as an attractive woman.

Charles Soule is just as good of a writer as Gray and Palmiotti and Kelly Sue DeConnick, so I think that having a more standard visual take on She-Hulk wouldn't have really distracted from the focus at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way criticizing Pulido's artwork. I just don't think it's application on She-Hulk was necessary. What Michael Allred is doing on Silver Surfer fits that book much better and books of that nature are really where more stylized art belongs.

This is, of course, only my opinion. In the end, it's really all subjective, though, and that's the beautiful thing about art.

I enjoyed those first twelve issues of Power Girl as much as anyone. But with Power Girl—arguably the most sexualized character of the Big Two—avoiding the issue of her sexualization would be ignoring the elephant in the room. I think in her case, it was absolutely the best way to go, to attack the issue head-on and use it to the character's advantage.

Further, I think Amanda Conner would have been great on this She-Hulk series. I probably would have still picked it up if she had been drawing it rather than Pulido. But I don't think the book would have been any better because of it, though I grant that it might have sold better. I say might, because there are several other factors which I listed previously I think hurt sales.

As for where stylized art belongs, do you mean to tell me that Jack Kirby shouldn't have drawn any mainstream books? His work is every bit as stylized as Allred’s and Pulido’s.

DoctorDoom

nweathington said:

bralinator said:

If you can overlook your disregard for the art it's very well written and fun.

It's not so much that I’m disregarding the art, I just have so many other things to read, I don't need to spend my time with something that doesn’t bowl me over. I've got a stack of OGNs and trades almost as tall as me waiting to be read, plus a 12-inch stack of single issues. Who needs Bobillo when I’ve got Paul Pope, Sergio Toppi, and Juanjo Guarnido waiting for me, know what I mean?

I hear that. I have the series to read, and I barely want to, due to the art.