Episode 1547 Talkback - Spotlight on the Fantastic Four in the John Byrne Era
Pants
Posts: 567
Because Jamie D Demanded It! Presenting a detailed look at a period of Fantastic Four history (1979-86) dominated by the creative vision of one of comics' most singular talents, John Byrne! As penciler, writer, inker, and all of the above, Byrne restored lost grandeur to the First Family of the Marvel Universe, giving them new costumes, a new member, new life challenges, and a newly expanded cinematic scope to their adventures; while giving comics posterity six years of memorable stories and THE definitive portrayal of Dr. Doom. Don't miss the CGS treatment of the run that made the Fantastic Four cool again! (3:05:26)
Listen here. Feel the Byrne!
Listen here. Feel the Byrne!
Comments
Greatest. Post. Ever.
Looking forward to this spotlight gentlemen. I"ll have to grab my first volume of the Byrne FF omnibus (if I can lift it...!)
Excellent episode! I run the "Great American Novel" FF site, so was grinning from ear to ear. And thanks for giving the non-Byrne issues the space they deserve. Regarding Kirby, you often asked what he would have thought, and speculated that the back up to FF 236 was new work for that issue. Oh boy, there is a HUGE story there!!! (Three exclamation marks in honor of The King!!!)
At this time Kirby was in dispute with Marvel over his work: I am sure you all know the story so I'll just summarize it briefly, but this was the depths of the bad blood period. FF 236 was arguably the low point. The backup was Kirby's storyboards from the cartoon: Marvel used it without paying him a singe penny. They had the legal right to do so, but for Kirby this was just twisting the knife. For twenty years Kirby had been promised more money (e.g. by Goodman), but the money never came. Meanwhile Marvel grew richer and richer on Kirby's creations. Then in the 1980s Kirby was not allowed his original art back (unless he signed a waiver saying Marvel owed him nothing). And now, in the gigantic 20th anniversary celebration, Marvel were once again using Kirby's work without paying him. See the cover to FF 236, where there's a white space next to Stan Lee? That was originally Jack Kirby, and he asked to be removed. When he heard what they were doing for a backup it was the last straw, and he wanted no part of it.
That said, I am sure Kirby would have applauded Byrne's work: he was always supportive of fellow artists. But supporting Marvel re:FF 236 ? Not so much.
I really enjoy listening to your stuff, but it is getting harder and harder to be happy about clicking "play" when I know my ears are gonna be paying the price for their desire to hear what you guys have to say. You guys are redlining at least 4 or 8 times an episode now. It is like you guys are screaming right into the mic at times.
Again, man, honestly not trying to be a typical internet hater. I do love what you guys do, it is just this one thing, this one aspect that is just painful to hear.
Thanks for the time. Gonna try and listen to this again tomorrow. Peace.
Pants did turn some of the mics down this episode. It sounded much better to me. I'm sure there were still a few moments that popped, but all in all it was greatly improved.
Sooner or later those dials will be in the right place.
Bry
Again, I am not trying to be a complainer, I do enjoy this show greatly (you guys are always the first podcast/bookmark I click on to see if there are any new episodes) and appreciate all the hard work that goes into making these things (and all the harder work that is getting ready to happen, hopefully) I was just at a bad place last night and I just had to get that off my chest.
Off now to listen to this Bronze Age FF in full. The episode I know Jamie is smiling about as he listens from above.
Peace.
In this issue, Ben, Alicia and Franklin are left behind in Liddleville by Reed, Sue, and Johnny, for what they believe will be, essentially, a week's vacation. Ben wishes to remain human for as long as possible, while Alicia is left to believe this is indeed the real world. Instead, Ben discovers something much darker has occurred. Because of Ben's selfishness, even for this short a time, the rest of the Fantastic Four wind up killed by Doctor Doom, who then traps the three in Liddleville...FOREVER! *bum bum bum*
BELOW ID the living moon!
http://marvel.wikia.com/Id_(Selfish_Moon)_(Earth-616)
Personally, I didn't think FF had lost much grandeur. Perez did some fun work on the book in the 70s and that year-long saga by Marv Wolfman with Galactus vs. the Sphinx is one of my favorites.
I'm off to listen.
I am glad Chris mention the Wolfman issues.
I think you might have skipped over this early issue but there was an issue called "The Man with the Power". I think this was heavily swipped from an old Outer Limits episode of the same name.
And Yes, Yes, Yes to spotlights on Two-in-One and Team Up. Heck, I'd even listen to one on Spidey Super Stories! :)
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/fantastic_four_annual_5_silver.shtml
Let's see, #201-231, I was pretty much up on a base in northern Japan and I was only collecting X-Men through subscription at the time. So I had exposure to Byrne's work, but after #200, I wasn't reading much F.F. except an issue here or there. So, it's nice to have the story gaps filled in by this spotlight.
232 and on....Man, I just love you guys' enthusiasm about these issues! I was in England and Hawaii during this time and thus had access to a majority of the issues and loved them. Unfortunately, I sold them back in '93. I've been slowly getting them back in dollar bins, since 2009. As Chris said, they're readily available, but it's been hit-or-miss in finding the issues for me.
Great episode!
Who knew...
I read a lot of the Thing's solo series at the same time, but that never resonated as well with me. A little of mopey Benjy goes a long way, and this book was issue after issue of mopey Benjy. Where was the Ever-Lovin' Blue-Eyed Idol of Millions from Marvel Two-In-One? Some of the Rocky Grimm, Space Ranger stuff was fun, though, especially the story that crossed over with FF #274, the one with the kinda-sorta Universal monsters and their master, Dr. Julius Ackermann, the Monster Maker! It was years before I got the reference, but even then I loved that story.
Oh, and a quick aside about #275. Remember the sleazy magazine publisher who tried to print the naked photos of She-Hulk? He's featured prominently on the cover:
Now, true believers, picture him with a mustache and tell me who he looks like, circa 1984? Excelsior! :))
Here's something worth looking at that wasn't mentioned:
By John Byrne. I feel like this is right up @chrisw 's alley.
Jack was also not fond of Byrne calling himself "The New Kirby" (and at conventions it was rumored that he said he was better than Kirby which Jack referenced quite a few times in interviews at the time) and felt that he was part of the group who worked at Marvel during his 1975 - 1978 run who made the time there difficult.
It's all behind the scenes stuff, but it certainly explains why Kirby was so upset when they took one of his storyboards from his work on FF cartoon, recut it and printed it without paying him...selling it as a new Kirby FF story made for the comic when it was anything but.
@Adam_Murdough's notes at the end were a perfect coda. Also enjoyed hearing call-backs to Jamie D. This episode was timeless, which is another reason I love the Spotlight episodes.
Any further movement on that Marvel Two-In-One Spotlight you guys mentioned?
... hint, hint
Thank you so much fellas.