The Crisis Tapes 12 Talkback: Crisis on Infinite Earths #2, Part 1
Adam_Murdough
Posts: 506
The Monitor's 'Great Fifteen' original multiversal defenders have been summoned and gathered and are now aboard the Monitor's satellite to be briefed on their dire, life-or-death mission, while far below on Earth-One, the first cracks in time and space begin to appear! It's the beginning of the end for the mainstream DC Universe, and Rios and Murdough are there to comment on the chaos! (3:06:30)
Listen here.
Listen here.
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Are you familiar with the "Fire & Water" Podcast? They've been running a fun series of episodes focusing on DC's "Who's Who" series that was published simultaneously with Crisis. They just posted an episode of the last issue of the initial series. Next they're moving onto the Legion, Star Trek, and updates:
https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/the-fire-and-water-podcast/id463855630
I think this series is a fine complement to your wonderful Crisis musings.
Personally, I'd love to hear similar in-depth analyses of Darwyn Cooke's New Frontier & Waid and Ross's Kingdom Come.
“I think the initial ideas were worked out by Marv, Len Wein, and Bob Greenberger. I don't know if, when they were conceptualizing it, I was even attached to it. I'd heard John Byrne might have been approached, because Marv didn't think I'd be available for whatever reason. So when I found out about the project and said I'd definitely be interested in doing it—I believe John had bowed out anyway—they didn't bother looking any further, because I was the logical choice.”
Now, George was a little fuzzy on the facts, and it may be that rumors and memories are intermingling, and it never happened, but George makes it sound like Byrne was approached to be the artist initially. Of course, by that time, John was writing his own stuff and wanting to keep going in that direction, and I don't know if he would have taken on the job if he was only going to be drawing it and not at least be involved in the plotting. Whatever the case, while it's possible he was approached to be the artist (or even artist/cowriter), I think it's safe to assume the basic ideas for Crisis were invented by Marv, Len, and Bob.
In any case, while John Byrne started as writer/artist of the FF in July 1981, having just read an interview with him about those days ("Comic Creators on Fantastic Four") I tend to doubt he'd have been approached as early as 1982 to handle both writing and art for a project like Crisis. Yes, I know, he was subsequently approached for the 1986 Man of Steel reboot, but frankly I don't think that had as much pre-planning as Crisis did. Also, to your point of JLB wanting to continue doing both writing and art, while I'm sure that's true given the majority of the stuff he did following the FF, I recall he did the artwork only on the crossover event that followed Crisis - i.e. Legends. So, maybe the dinner happened, but the thought was for him as artist only perhaps? In any case, even if JLB's version played out and he were agreeable to take on such an assignment, the final version wouldn't have had much in common with the Crisis we all know, except maybe the reboot of the multiverse as I suggested above, if that was always the plan from DC editorial?
I think issue 1 is a lot more straight forward in a sense...we get the first glimpse of the problem, a few hints of central characters reacting to the situation, a gathering as the title indicates, an unexpected attack from the "enemy", and a last page reveal of the man behind the curtain - the Monitor. Issue 2 on the other hand has a lot more seemingly randomness or chaos to it, as we see some (initial) Crisis impacts on the past (Anthro), future (Legion), and present (Flash, Batman, Joker) before we return to the cliffhanger from last issue (10 pages into #2 already) and are given at least some hints/direction on what the fifteen "gathered" are being asked to take part in.
Not getting the full story at this point, along with the constant scene shifting, really imo adds to the reader's feel of how out of control or chaotic this multiversal crisis truly is.
Beyond the "main" plot of the fifteen being assigned to protect the Monitor's tuning forks, there are a number of pivotal scenes here that are relevant to the later story, or in some cases even referred back to...
- The fate of the Flash
- The involvement of the Guardians
- The meeting of the World's Finest on Earth-1 to assess the situation
I agree with the comment on how the Batman and Joker as represented are very different than their post-Crisis versions. If anyone were to ever attempt a modern retrospective on the events of Crisis (like the "new-52 version"), I could see the dialogue, and maybe even the whole fight, being redone to fit with the newer versions (not that I'd like to see that mind you...frankly I happen to prefer the pre-Crisis characters in most cases to their post-Crisis or new-52 counterparts).
I also like your points about the differences in (a) the Corps as military instead of policemen, and (b) the World's Finest duo being more recognized than the concept of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman as the "Big Three".
I also noted that 9 of the 15 characters gathered were from comics I happened to be reading at the time, so for me those choices seemed very natural.
I'm also curious enough to keep delving into that concept of the "five crucial eras" where the tuning forks are placed. I suppose over the past 30 years some of the finer Crisis plot points of this series have faded into my own personal anti-matter wall.
In any case, looking forward to future installments! :)
Time to share my "Crisis Kid" story, as I am a Crisis kids, having just gotten into comics in 1984. I got a huge bundle of comics at a garage sale late 1984, with a ton of DC Comics mixed in there (including a bunch of Kirby Jimmy Olsen, but alas, it was missing the Darkseid first appearance). Among those comics were the 5 part "Crisis on Earth Prime" story in All-Star Squadron and JLA. To 12 year old me, I had no problem understanding the difference between the earths, and I remember thinking to myself that it wasn't confusing at all.
I vaguely remember picking up Crisis as it came out in 1985. I remember reading the end of it though, and being blown away.
Being the OCD comic book fan that we all are, I *had* to get everything Crisis related. So, once ICG published "The Official Crisis on Infinite Earths Index" and "The Official Crisis on Infinite Earths Crossover Index" it was done. I had to have it all.
So, between 1986 and 1988, I managed to grab everything. And, considering how recently everything had been published, it was easy to find.
About 5 years ago, I sold off the entire collection. Which included my copies of G.I. Combat #274 and #275.
Every time you guys mention it, my heart breaks just a little, as I would have gladly contributed those to you guys if I still had a collection to speak off. Small price to pay to give something back to you guys. I'm loving listening to you guys spend as much as you are on each of these issues. It's a big deal to this 42 year old man.
Speaking of Crisis completism, Peter, I would love to hear your thoughts on Multiversity. Murd has several times hinted that his thoughts on the subject are forthcoming, but I sincerely hope that you will also be available to join the episode in the event that the show does an in-depth look at the series!
Cheers!
Thank you..
Not only did I get both Monitor G.I Combat appearances at LSCC but I got them for about £10, roughly $15!
@Adam_Murdough When you reference your thesis would you mention the page number so that those of us with a signed copy *smug face engaged* can play along at home?
(Don't get too carried away with that smug-face, though--believe it or not, you're not the only one out there with a signed copy of my thesis in his possession! ;) )
http://twotruefreaks.com/shows.php?show=2
Agree that some discussion by you two on Multiversity, which I think has been excellent, would be awesome, given your deep knowledge of the DC multiverse. In particular, I would enjoy an in-depth discussion of Pax Americana by Adam and Peter.
I also agree with one of the above posts that an in depth discussion of New Frontier would be much appreciated. I'm happy to get the podcast episodes that we get from Peter and Adam (and all of the CGS crew) because I'm sure it takes a good deal of time and we all live busy lives, but just making a suggestion.
Does anyone know if there are any plans to do a multi-part movie version of Crisis, much as was done with The Dark Knight Returns? I assume there have been discussions, but that it was considered too long or too complex and difficult to translate into another medium, but it would seem possible to get the essence of the story in a way that would be entertaining.
I'd love to hear a crossover with Adam & Peter and Rob & Shag
I do enjoy these episodes very much, but this unpleasant noise really takes me out of it (the noise just seems so visceral and literally makes me cringe). Hope you'll consider this in future episodes.