Daredevil Episode 12 Spoiler Discussion "The Ones We Leave Behind"
matchkitJOHN
Posts: 1,030
I thought I would start a side discussion about Ben Urich being killed by the Kingpin in ep 12. I figured this would garner a major discussion that someone still watching would be majorly spoiled. So we can discuss this development openly and just this ep. People can talk about their thoughts of Ben and were you as shock dad I was. It can be amalgamated later.
I really didn't see that coming. Not at all. I thought he would be around for some of the other series and reporting on the Marvels. He seemed to be doing that with the newspapers in his office. I felt so bad for his wife. I thought the elderly lady in the apt would be their closest casualty but evidently not.
I think Vondie Curtis Hall did a great job. I had hoped he could have done more. Kingpin had done so much foul stuff I didn't think they needed to do this but I guess they wanted to raise the stakes.
I really didn't see that coming. Not at all. I thought he would be around for some of the other series and reporting on the Marvels. He seemed to be doing that with the newspapers in his office. I felt so bad for his wife. I thought the elderly lady in the apt would be their closest casualty but evidently not.
I think Vondie Curtis Hall did a great job. I had hoped he could have done more. Kingpin had done so much foul stuff I didn't think they needed to do this but I guess they wanted to raise the stakes.
Comments
Curious if Karen's 2 secrets, not to mention her past, will come back to haunt her..
I guess the age of the newspaper really is over.
:((
The other thread is probably a better place for this rant, but...
I have been digging Netflix Daredevil (only have the final episode left to watch), however the portrayal of "The Kingpin" has been driving me crazy. I feel it is COMPLETELY wrong. I was excited when Vincent D'Onofrio was cast as Wilson Fisk. I felt that he would be the superior actor and steal every scene. That couldn't be further from the reality.
This series' portrayal of Wilson Fisk baffles me. He isn't terrifying at all. In EVERY scene he looks like a bewildered child who has just woken from a long nap and can't comprehend how he has been placed into his position of power. He appears as if he is constantly on the verge of tears. Fisk walks through the storyline like an overgrown man-child who doesn't understand the complexity of his Empire. The only time we are shown his "dark side" is when the big, bald baby throws a spontaneous temper tantrum (that doesn't make him a gangland Don, it makes him a Spaz). There is no planning, or calculation (Wesley took care of the details, if anything, he was the Kingpin), only daddy issues and apron strings. This Netflix version of Fisk can't execute a plan, he can barely spit out his dialogue in one cohesive sentence, sounding like he needs assistance from a respirator. I found him much preferable as the enigmatic "Employer", who operated from the shadows.
Vincent D'Onofrio isn't the Kingpin, he is Lex Luthor's dim-witted baby brother. The comic book version of The Kingpin would eat Netflix Wilson Fisk for breakfast... and have a satisfying grin while he took his time doing it.
You don't get to be the shadowy puppet master, orchestrating a gangland empire with four or five merciless lieutenants of various factions doing your bidding, without thinking you are above the law (which you have also bought). I don't think the comic book version of the Kingpin considers himself the "bad guy", just overly ambitious and not willing to let anything stand in his way. D'Onofrio's character doesn't look ambitious, just constantly confused as to why people are asking him for direction, as if he never intended to be in the position. There is NONE of the Kingpin's smug confidence, none of his cold calculation, none of the enjoyment of building his empire.
Thank you.
Thank you!
I was starting to feel like I was the only one who had the same reaction.
M
I feel he had ambition (although I wonder how he rose so high) but is so unsure of himself. After Vanessa comes along, he focuses. He goes public and his partners see him as a threat to what they are building. We see that he has some plan because they do the ol "whisper my plan in your ear cliche" before he is arrested. (Maybe Vanessa will run things until he gets out or she is instructed to do something specific to get him out) . While in custody he verbalizes that he is the bad guy. He already knew this, but saying it out loud makes it more real (and dramatic for the audiance). His final scene is staring at the wall deciding what man he wants to be.
His character arc was not done well. He came into his own too late in he season. Having him realize that his downfall was because of own doing and growing from this is a better origin story. Matt is his nemesis because he will be the only one to ever truely defeat him. Many good elements and ideas were not used to their strengths.
That being said, I enjoyed Fisk overall.
One last thing, his reliance on someone else to take care of all the details came back to bite him. This may force him to take charge of his organization and machinations.
From April 11:
I probably just missed it. I mostly navigate the forums when I'm driving around for work. I sometimes overlook posts.
M
@Hex definitely out-opused me.
Mine was more of a miffed minuet.
But couldn't help it... every time D'Onofrio was on screen I wanted to slap him and scream "You're THE Kingpin damn-it, act like it!"
You were spot-on.
The only thing I disagree with is your optimism for D'Onofrio's performance. This was exactly the kind of transparent over-emoting I feared we'd see from him. It's his signature move. I'd love to play poker with him.
However, after the opening scene in episode one with Charlie Cox in the confessional, the bar was set pretty high. What an opener!
I think it is a very three dimensional portrayal of Fisk with some surprises that we haven't seen before- but they remain plausible based on what we know. To me he certainly will have all the capacity to grow into the supremely evil, manipulative monster that we know him to be from the comics.
And I miss Ben Urich already. Felt like a misstep to me- but I may change that opinion after I see episode 13. I'm willing to accept that there may be a very good reason storywise to have done him in.