Episode 1552 Talkback - BOMC: The Infinity Gauntlet

Adam_Murdough

What does a death-obsessed demigod do after he acquires six impossibly powerful talismans that make him Master of All Reality? ANYTHING HE WANTS. Join the Geeks on a cosmic odyssey back to the early '90s as they turn their attention to The Infinity Gauntlet, the six-issue Marvel miniseries that began an ongoing cycle of Warlock/Thanos 'Infinity' stories by Jim Starlin. Thoughts are shared on the cosmic philosophy and mind-bending magniloquence of writer Starlin, the artwork of George Perez and Ron Lim, the characterization of Thanos (SPOILER: not all of us were impressed!), and the ramifications of this story for the future of Marvel Cinematic Universe. (2:37:57)

Listen here.*

(*Also available on YouTube, as the first-ever CGS vidcast!)

joewhite73

Im really digging the video option. For me, I will probably not feel like watching every episode, if all episodes are even available. Just my two cents.

brydeemer

@joewhite73 We certainly don't expect everyone to watch every video, or even any videos at all! We just wanted to add the option for those that prefer a video and to hopefully acquire some new listeners through the vast audience of YouTube.

rebis

Regarding the familiarity that Thor has with Warlock (1:35)
One of Warlock's very early appearances was in Thor (as Him).

It might be the character's 2nd. appearance.

Anyway, I don't remember if it was Sif or Jane Foster, but Him fancies one for a mate. Mayhem ensues. Thor and Him fight in space. Him feels himself loosing, goes into a cocoon and floats away. I think, he floats into the arms of the High Evolutionary.

RepoMan

This is new to me in terms of reading it. But the connections to the upcoming (current and past) Marvel movies makes for an interesting thought. Basically - the comic book reading audience already knows the basic story. The movies should add in tons more. But I'll go in knowing too many of the plot points already. I feel that way with the Inhumans story in Agents of SHIELD. So outside of different players is there really another way the Infinity War movie can play out? We'll see. Haha.

i_am_scifi

Here's the link to the YouTube!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z0i5Wmue_U

mphil

I'm a huge fan of Marvel's cosmic universe and The Infinity Guantlet happened right in the middle of cosmic really getting fully fleshed out, so it's a personal favorite of mine.

I really do wish DC would make some effort to cleanup their cosmic stuff because it doesn't fit well together (New Gods and Green Lantern especially) the way Marvel's does. I prefer DC overall but cosmic is one area where Marvel is so much more rich.

compsolut

Love the vidcast! Also listened to the audio version while driving to and from work. Did anyone else find that Dani and Bill were very quiet (almost unheard) on the audio podcast? They come over perfect on the video side.

All bugs to be worked out, and I am a happy geek to be a guinea pig :)

Thanks for all the hard work gents, and keep it up!

ChrisBeckett

Just starting to listen, and I meant to add this to the pre-recording thread:
I know Perez gets a lot of flack for not finishing this series. It was a huge deal - Perez returning to Marvel after a decade of exclusivity at DC; they even offered signed editions of issue #1 for pre-order (the first time I remember that, probably because I purchased one - for only ten bucks!). This came at a time when he was becoming known as an artist starting to miss his deadlines, something that became more pronounced with his work at Malibu and Tekno Comics soon after. And, as far as I remember, it was merely the fact that he could not hit his deadlines; I don't remember there being any extenuating circumstances, though I would not ask to be quoted on that. But consider, each issue was double-sized, so Perez, whose work is highly detailed and who is not known as a fast artist, was already behind the eight ball with this.

As to the "jarring transition" to Ron Lim. I don't know who else Marvel could have gotten that would be a better fit. His style is very reminiscent of Perez and other artists who work in that vein, and I always felt, from looking at Lim's work, that he must have been influenced heavily by Perez. Couple this with the fact that he was the artist responsible for delineating Jim Starlin's run on Silver Surfer, which brought Thanos back to the Marvel Universe, along with the Thanos Quest, as mentioned by Murd, and Lim is the ideal choice for this.

Enough rambling for the moment. Back to the show.

BlueBullitt01

I have read Infinity Gauntlet (IG) multiple times and I have to agree with many of the comments on the show. Specifically, Thanos does come off as sappy, rebuffed, lover. I think the purpose of IG was to illustrate that ultimate power doesn't equal happiness.

Thanos is a deeply flawed emotional character. First, Thanos is incapable of making any lasting connections to other beings - his son, daughter, family, etc. He destroys, perverts, and uses anyone who attempts to align with him. Second, success comes to Thanos in most endeavors but are empty victories - he knows, or deeply believes, he will win. The one exception to both points is Death. Everything Thanos does is in support of his end goal to attain Death. As long as she and Thanos are apart, Thanos will never be fulfilled because Death is the only being that can meet satisfy those unmet needs.

I believe you could make an argument that Death is the real villain in IG. She manipulates Thanos from beginning to end.

nweathington

ChrisBeckett said:

I know Perez gets a lot of flack for not finishing this series. It was a huge deal - Perez returning to Marvel after a decade of exclusivity at DC; they even offered signed editions of issue #1 for pre-order (the first time I remember that, probably because I purchased one - for only ten bucks!). This came at a time when he was becoming known as an artist starting to miss his deadlines, something that became more pronounced with his work at Malibu and Tekno Comics soon after. And, as far as I remember, it was merely the fact that he could not hit his deadlines; I don't remember there being any extenuating circumstances, though I would not ask to be quoted on that. But consider, each issue was double-sized, so Perez, whose work is highly detailed and who is not known as a fast artist, was already behind the eight ball with this.

People tend to forget that while George was penciling Infinity Gauntlet, he was also writing, doing covers, and providing layouts for DC’s War of the Gods miniseries, and writing Wonder Woman.

War of the Gods had gone through some delays when the editor, Karen Berger went on maternity leave, which caused some overlap between it and Gauntlet, and created some editorial problems regarding crossovers.

Here's what George told me: “I was having a hard time keeping my enthusiasm up. I was becoming overly critical of the books I was working on. With Infinity Gauntlet, I felt that the story did not warrant six double-sized books. I had gone into it with a certain idea, Jim Starlin had his own ideas—and, of course, Jim had been doing Thanos for years, and it was his character, so I know the problem wasn't with him, it was with me. I just started losing interest, and as a result I was slowing down. Part of it was that it was being done concurrently with War of the Gods, which was highly stressful.”

ChrisBeckett

nweathington said:

People tend to forget that while George was penciling Infinity Gauntlet, he was also writing, doing covers, and providing layouts for DC’s War of the Gods miniseries, and writing Wonder Woman.

War of the Gods had gone through some delays when the editor, Karen Berger went on maternity leave, which caused some overlap between it and Gauntlet, and created some editorial problems regarding crossovers.

Here's what George told me: “I was having a hard time keeping my enthusiasm up. I was becoming overly critical of the books I was working on. With Infinity Gauntlet, I felt that the story did not warrant six double-sized books. I had gone into it with a certain idea, Jim Starlin had his own ideas—and, of course, Jim had been doing Thanos for years, and it was his character, so I know the problem wasn't with him, it was with me. I just started losing interest, and as a result I was slowing down. Part of it was that it was being done concurrently with War of the Gods, which was highly stressful.”

It's comforting to know @nweathington is around to bring the knowledge.

grannygeekness

Great episode, and I am relieved to find out I was not the only person who a) "remembered" Infinity Gauntlet including Thanos gathering the gems, and b) thought Thanos was being a whiny baby through this whole series.

nweathington

Thanks, Chris. I may want to use that as a quote on my Facebook page. ;)

And for the record, I agree with George. Infinity Gauntlet got off to a nice start, but the story really dragged in several places. I thought the Thanos Quest two-issue prequel was fantastic, and for me Gauntlet just didn't live up to Quest’s set-up.

wuchmee

Very good episode -- a BOMC in all its glory. Next time Mr. Ellis and Ms. O'Brian participate, have them speak up or turn up their levels; it was VERY difficult to hear them on the audio podcast, especially her.

Re: Infinity Gauntlet -- on balance worth the read, but drags in (many?) spots. Thanos's petulance actually adds a humanizing factor to the shenanigans. YMMV.

wuchmee

@brydeemer Great launch of CGS video. Bill and Dani's audio was louder than on the regular podcast, but still lower than everyone else.

Are you switching manually?

brydeemer

wuchmee said:

Are you switching manually?

Yep, I'm switching the video feeds manually.

SolitaireRose

nweathington said:

ChrisBeckett said:

I know Perez gets a lot of flack for not finishing this series. It was a huge deal - Perez returning to Marvel after a decade of exclusivity at DC; they even offered signed editions of issue #1 for pre-order (the first time I remember that, probably because I purchased one - for only ten bucks!). This came at a time when he was becoming known as an artist starting to miss his deadlines, something that became more pronounced with his work at Malibu and Tekno Comics soon after. And, as far as I remember, it was merely the fact that he could not hit his deadlines; I don't remember there being any extenuating circumstances, though I would not ask to be quoted on that. But consider, each issue was double-sized, so Perez, whose work is highly detailed and who is not known as a fast artist, was already behind the eight ball with this.

People tend to forget that while George was penciling Infinity Gauntlet, he was also writing, doing covers, and providing layouts for DC’s War of the Gods miniseries, and writing Wonder Woman.

War of the Gods had gone through some delays when the editor, Karen Berger went on maternity leave, which caused some overlap between it and Gauntlet, and created some editorial problems regarding crossovers.

War of the Gods also had the artist leave in the middle of the series to join the Army. Now THERE'S a backstage story I'd love to hear more about...

TheOriginalGMan

compsolut said:

Did anyone else find that Dani and Bill were very quiet (almost unheard) on the audio podcast?

Yes, which was a real shame because I love when they're on. At first I was envisioning that they weren't actually sitting at the table with the rest of the gang and were sitting against the back wall or something. Was surprised to find that wasn't the case when I watched the video.

bralinator

Really enjoyed this episode. Thanks fellas. It definitely sated my desire to hear some more 'Marvel Cosmic' discussion on the show. Knowing this BOMC was pending, I re-read the Silver Surfer issues leading up to this event (34-50), and those crossing over into it, as well as the Thanos Quest. Wish I had the Doctor Strange issues now. I can't help but think that reading these set-up issues would have added to the experience for those that weren't as impressed when reading it for the first time, like Danni and Bill. Although it's true, the Starlin Marvel Cosmic stories aren't exactly for everyone, but I love 'em.

I've not read any of the Life of Captain Marvel collected issues, though I have read the Death of Captain Marvel graphic novel. In that story, Thanos appeared to Captain Marvel as he was dying from cancer to actually HELP him accept the inevitable. He came to ease Mar-Vell into dying at peace because he wanted to help in a way that only Thanos would have. It was near perfect.



Overall, I think it's fascinating how Starlin has developed Thanos as a character of pathos. Thanos has a dry wit I enjoy, but it's often lost on his terrified enemies. On the other hand, he has a cold commitment to nihilism and death that would be terrifying to any rational being. He commits genocide because he is philosophically opposed to life: he killed his own mother. He is a dark individual. He loves Death. He should prove to be the perfect nemesis in the MCU during the upcoming Infinity War movies.

Lastly, kudos to the strong work on this episode by @Adam_Murdough - and I thought it was a great discussion all around by everyone. Even the opinions I disagree with :)

popestu

popestu

brydeemer said:

@joewhite73 We certainly don't expect everyone to watch every video, or even any videos at all! We just wanted to add the option for those that prefer a video and to hopefully acquire some new listeners through the vast audience of YouTube.

Everyone must watch every video. It is your...destiny.

popestu

compsolut said:

Love the vidcast! Also listened to the audio version while driving to and from work. Did anyone else find that Dani and Bill were very quiet (almost unheard) on the audio podcast? They come over perfect on the video side.

All bugs to be worked out, and I am a happy geek to be a guinea pig :)

Thanks for all the hard work gents, and keep it up!

Yes. I found them very low. I was raising the volume each time they spoke and then lowering it whenever someone else spoke.

popestu

ChrisBeckett said:

Just starting to listen, and I meant to add this to the pre-recording thread:
I know Perez gets a lot of flack for not finishing this series. It was a huge deal - Perez returning to Marvel after a decade of exclusivity at DC; they even offered signed editions of issue #1 for pre-order (the first time I remember that, probably because I purchased one - for only ten bucks!). This came at a time when he was becoming known as an artist starting to miss his deadlines, something that became more pronounced with his work at Malibu and Tekno Comics soon after. And, as far as I remember, it was merely the fact that he could not hit his deadlines; I don't remember there being any extenuating circumstances, though I would not ask to be quoted on that. But consider, each issue was double-sized, so Perez, whose work is highly detailed and who is not known as a fast artist, was already behind the eight ball with this.

As to the "jarring transition" to Ron Lim. I don't know who else Marvel could have gotten that would be a better fit. His style is very reminiscent of Perez and other artists who work in that vein, and I always felt, from looking at Lim's work, that he must have been influenced heavily by Perez. Couple this with the fact that he was the artist responsible for delineating Jim Starlin's run on Silver Surfer, which brought Thanos back to the Marvel Universe, along with the Thanos Quest, as mentioned by Murd, and Lim is the ideal choice for this.

Enough rambling for the moment. Back to the show.

The change annoyed me. It always annonys me when events do not have a consistent artist. However, at least it didn't have 3 artist and 7 inkers like certain other books.

alienal

I don't think I've read Thanos Quest, Infinity Gauntlet, or Infinity War, but like Chris I was first exposed to Marvel Cosmic via the FF and later the Starlin Warlock issues. So, it was interesting to hear all you guys thoughts on IG. Hopefully I will be inspired to pick up a few trades before the movie comes out.

BlueBullitt01

@alienal the trades would serve you well. Thanos Quest is excellent followed by IW and IG. You may also want to think about picking up Infinity Gauntlet: Aftermath. IG:A follows the heroes post IG and the fallout from those events in their individual books.

bralinator

If you get the Silver Surfer tpb return of Thanos, it includes the issues Starlin wrote that led up to the Thanos quest, as well as the actual Thanos Quest issues.

DoctorDoom

I wrote a ton of notes that I thought you guys missed as I was listening, but as the episode neared the end, you guys covered most of them. So here's jsut some info!

(Also, I was one of those readers who, at the time, had no clue who half the characters/abstracts were!)







Thanos did not just return out of nowhere. The lead-up came from Starlin's Surfer run, as @Bralinator said. This run also had the return of Drax, and Surfer meeting Adam Warlock after being sucked into the Soul Gem by Thanos.






Thanos actually fakes his death in this issue, so that he can go on his Thanos Quest.




Mephisto appears to Thanos, claiming to want to council him. He makes a play for the Gauntlet, fails, claims he was testing Thanos. Thanos asks why he shouldn't just change Mephisto, like one of you guys wondered. Mephisto claims that he has a unique perspective, and changing it would be a disservice to Thanos.




One more note here: Nebula was blasted by Thanos when he returns, in Silver Surfer #38.

DoctorDoom

These two issues show Strange gathering the survivors of the first assault on Thanos.

It also answered how the heck Thor is around for the last issues after being shattered.

popestu

Good work. I was unaware of the Dr. Strange issues.

DoctorDoom

popestu said:

Good work. I was unaware of the Dr. Strange issues.

It also explains what happened to Doctor Doom, which IG never made clear.



Also, Tiny Hulk vs Abomination is a good one. Not necessary, but still fun.