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The Real Impetus Behind the New52? (Gerry Conway on creator royalties)

Okay, I can be a pretty cynical guy. I call myself an optimistic cynic or a cynical optimist, depending on how I'm feeling at any given moment. When the New52 was initially announced, my first thought was that a big part of the reboot was so DC could change their characters enough to get out of paying royalties going forward in as many cases as they could. According to Gerry Conway—and I have absolutely no reason to doubt anything he says here—Warner Bros./DC is definitely working to that end in various ways.

Welcome to the corporate world, comics.
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Comments

  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    Wow.

    That is a hell of a read. It will be interesting to see if this gets the traction that it deserves. Because, damn.

    If true, then it is another sad undoing of Paul Levitz's long, and as far as I can tell, well-earned legacy of trying to get creator's paid.

    DC used to be ahead of the competition when it came to stuff like this, at least from the stories you've heard. It seems like, in the post-Levitz era, that is changing.
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    Thank-you Gerry Conway.
  • CageNarleighCageNarleigh Posts: 729
    edited April 2015
    Yeah. Myself and several other podcasters are currently messaging on Facebook trying to figure out a way to rally behind Gerry (and his fellow creators) in the coming weeks/month or so. This post by Gerry made me teeth grinding angry.
  • HexHex Posts: 944
    Whoa. That all sounds pretty shady.
  • hauberkhauberk Posts: 1,511
    Emailed them - not that it will do any good and then dropping DC books like hot rocks.
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    http://gerryconway.tumblr.com/post/117619743363/who-created-caitlin-snow-on-theflash-according


    "Who created Caitlin Snow, the alter ego of Firestorm super-villain Killer Frost, who appears regularly on The Flash?

    According to DC Entertainment, nobody.

    That’s right. Caitlin Snow, the brilliant scientist working for Harrison Wells, fiancée of Ronnie Raymond and friend of Barry Allen, aka The Flash, sprang fully formed into existence without a creator or creators.

    But that’s okay, because, by the logic employed by DC Entertainment, nobody created Barry Allen either.

    Let me explain. See if you can follow me here.

    As I’ve described elsewhere (http://comicsequity.blogspot.com), many years ago DC Comics established the first program to provide comic book creators with a share in the revenues generated by their creations in other media. This concept became known as “creator equity participation” and it was a small but significant step toward compensating creators for their work beyond a simple page rate. For me, personally, it’s been moderately lucrative (thank you, Bruce Timm, for putting Killer Croc in the animated Batman) but in recent years it’s also become an increasingly frustrating and, lately, infuriating process.

    The reason, I believe, is the shift of corporate culture at DC Comics that occurred around the time Paul Levitz left his position as publisher.

    As a comic book creator himself, Paul displayed a protective empathy for creators. Once the creator equity concept became policy, Paul applied it liberally and proactively– often notifying writers and artists their creations were due to receive equity participation when creators would otherwise have no idea. For thirty plus years, under Paul, creators were valued and supported as equity partners. (We can argue about the level of support, whether the percentage creators received was commensurate with their contributions, but we can’t deny that the support was there, and it was consistent.)

    All of that changed when Paul left, and DC Comics became, officially, DC Entertainment, a fully subsumed cog in the Warners Entertainment wheel.

    I first learned how this change would effect DC’s approach to creators equity when I received a letter from DC Entertainment’s new president, Diane Nelson, informing me I would no longer receive equity payments for Power Girl because she was now considered a “derivative” character. To soften the blow and show “appreciation” for my “contribution” she enclosed a check for $1000.

    Thank you, Diane.

    The next thing I learned about DC Entertainment’s new approach to their comic creators equity program was just as distressing, given how many characters I created for DC over the decade-plus I wrote for the company: if I wanted to receive an equity participation contract for a character I created, I had to request one, in writing, for each character, before that character appeared in another media, because DC would refuse to make equity payments retroactively.

    By a rough guesstimate, I probably created over five hundred characters for DC between 1969 and 1985. Most of them were minor one-shot creations, and some of them, like Felicity Smoak (now a regular on Arrow) were minor supporting characters who’ve taken on a new life in other media. Unless I’m willing to commit a large chunk of my life to tracking down each character and filing a separate equity request in anticipation that somehow, some day, one of these characters might end up on a TV show, I risk being cut off from any share in the fruits DC enjoys from the product of my labor. A share which DC acknowledges I’m due– but which DC refuses to assist me in receiving.

    Thank you, DC.

    But now we come to the catch-22 of DC’s new approach to creator equity agreements. Assuming I perform my due diligence (which should really be DC’s due diligence) and dig up references to characters I’ve created that might soon be appearing in other media (maybe as a chess piece, or a Heroclix figure, or a recurring character on The Flash), and assuming I file the necessary request form in a timely fashion– DC can still decide, unilaterally, that my creation is “derivative” and they don’t owe me a dime.

    What, exactly, is DC’s definition of a “derivative” character?

    It’s a character that DC decides was “derived” from some other previously existing character.

    For example, Power Girl– “derived” from Superman, because, like Supergirl, she’s a relative of Superman. Which means I can’t claim to be her co-creator because Superman is a pre-existing character. Fair enough, I suppose. The logic here is that Superman is the original creation, so Power Girl is derived from that original creation, so in effect, Power Girl is an extension of Superman, which means, by this tortured logic, that Power Girl was more or less created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster.

    Uh, no.

    This was the tortured logic National Periodical Publications tried to use back in the 1940s when Siegel and Shuster sued National for the rights to Superboy. National (the company that preceded DC) argued that Superman was the original creation, which Siegel and Shuster sold to National, and that Superboy was just a “derivative” creation. A court-appointed legal referee found that Superboy was in fact a unique creation and that National was guilty of copyright infringement. Sadly for Siegel and Shuster (and for creators everywhere), legal expenses forced the creators to sell National the rights to Superboy in a consent decree that obscured this fundamental finding. But the finding is pretty clear:

    Characters “derived” from other characters are legally unique, and DC’s claim that “derivation” deprives creators of any equity participation rights in those characters is nothing more than an immoral, unethical, deceitful and despicable money grab.

    Yet, it gets worse.

    Let’s say DC agrees you created a character, like, for example, Killer Frost. In your original creation, Killer Frost had a secret identity named Crystal Frost. Later, a “new” Killer Frost is created for the New 52, and this new Killer Frost has a secret identity named Caitlin Snow.

    You’ll be pleased to hear (I hope) that DC agrees I and Al Milgrom are the co-creators of all manifestations of “Killer Frost.” We are also considered the co-creators of Crystal Frost. And, of course, by the twisted logic that credits Power Girl as a derivation of Superman, Al and I must also be the creators of Killer Frost’s New 52 secret identity, Caitlin Snow.

    Right?

    No. We’re not. And DC insists we are not. And I agree with DC.

    Caitlin Snow was created by Sterling Gates and Derlis Santacruz.

    Except, according to DC Entertainment, she wasn’t. Because she was “derived” from the original creation of Killer Frost.

    Which means Al Milgrom and I created her.

    Except, according to DC Entertainment, we didn’t.

    Nobody created her.

    Or, rather, nobody gets credit and creator equity participation for creating her.

    And that, my friends, is truly obnoxious and despicable.

    DC Entertainment has created a marvelous catch-22 that allows them to cheat creators by using both sides of an argument to serve DC’s interests.

    According to DC, Sterling Gates and Derlis Santacruz didn’t create Caitlin Snow. Don Newton and I didn’t create Jason Todd. Ric Estrada and I didn’t create Power Girl. Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster didn’t create Superboy. Bob Kanigher and Carmine Infantino didn’t create Barry Allen.

    These characters just appeared out of nowhere.

    But the money for their exploitation goes directly into DC’s bank account."
  • This should probably be merged with the "Real Impetus Behind the New52" thread.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    First, same on DC Entertainment. Second, would you believe I figured this was part of the driving force behind the relaunch when it was initially announced.

    If I recall correctly, the Estates for Siegel & Shuster just won an appeal or something along those lines. I was thinking if DC really wanted to screw the families, just don't use Superman for a couple years.

    Then this relaunch was announced. I wondered if they altered the character enough to be different, but retain some of the lore, could DC in effect state the families have minimal rights to Superman?

    Again, ethically; shame on DC. Tactically, well played.

    M
  • playdohsrepublicplaydohsrepublic Posts: 1,377
    edited April 2015
    This isn't the first time we've heard about controversy over "derivative characters" at DC, but Conway definitely makes it clear how shady it a is. It makes you wonder why they would even bother with creator credits at all. We should role the clock back 60 years and ignore all contributions to the medium. Its actually mind boggling that Jason Todd was created by no one. Or Barry Allen.

    It's like if a job was created for someone at a company and they eventually left. Then company decided to fill that position with someone new, only to tell them that they wouldn't be eligible for bonuses because they didn't create the position, only to tell the original person they wouldn't get a check either since they aren't actually doing the work.

    Just trying to relate the situation to another experience creates absurd contrivances.
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 6,748
    Matt said:

    Second, would you believe I figured this was part of the driving force behind the relaunch when it was initially announced.

    Sure, I'd believe that. I am under no reservation I was the only one to think it. But my reasoning was based more on the Aquaman settlement, where Paul Norris was paid for usage of the original costume. He would get a modest royalty on an Aquaman figure in the orange-and-green costume, but not on an Aquaman figure in the shirtless, hook-handed costume.
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782

    Okay, I can be a pretty cynical guy. I call myself an optimistic cynic or a cynical optimist, depending on how I'm feeling at any given moment. When the New52 was initially announced, my first thought was that a big part of the reboot was so DC could change their characters enough to get out of paying royalties going forward in as many cases as they could. According to Gerry Conway—and I have absolutely no reason to doubt anything he says here—Warner Bros./DC is definitely working to that end in various ways.

    Welcome to the corporate world, comics.

    Fyi...I coined the term "optimistic pessimist" and, by turn, pessimistic optimist". I hope we do not have one of those Captain Marvel vs Superman litigation situations on our hands, @nweathington.
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 6,748
    popestu said:

    Okay, I can be a pretty cynical guy. I call myself an optimistic cynic or a cynical optimist, depending on how I'm feeling at any given moment. When the New52 was initially announced, my first thought was that a big part of the reboot was so DC could change their characters enough to get out of paying royalties going forward in as many cases as they could. According to Gerry Conway—and I have absolutely no reason to doubt anything he says here—Warner Bros./DC is definitely working to that end in various ways.

    Welcome to the corporate world, comics.

    Fyi...I coined the term "optimistic pessimist" and, by turn, pessimistic optimist". I hope we do not have one of those Captain Marvel vs Superman litigation situations on our hands, @nweathington.
    I hope you have your paperwork in order, @popestu, if that's your real name.
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782

    popestu said:

    Okay, I can be a pretty cynical guy. I call myself an optimistic cynic or a cynical optimist, depending on how I'm feeling at any given moment. When the New52 was initially announced, my first thought was that a big part of the reboot was so DC could change their characters enough to get out of paying royalties going forward in as many cases as they could. According to Gerry Conway—and I have absolutely no reason to doubt anything he says here—Warner Bros./DC is definitely working to that end in various ways.

    Welcome to the corporate world, comics.

    Fyi...I coined the term "optimistic pessimist" and, by turn, pessimistic optimist". I hope we do not have one of those Captain Marvel vs Superman litigation situations on our hands, @nweathington.
    I hope you have your paperwork in order, @popestu, if that's your real name.
    Oh, I do. And it is (kinda sorta maybe)
  • matchkitJOHNmatchkitJOHN Posts: 1,030
    Wow. That has to be the biggest pile of corporate bs doublespeak ever.
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    1. I'll have to read that thread.
    2. How does one get threads merged?
  • playdohsrepublicplaydohsrepublic Posts: 1,377
    edited April 2015
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    @playdohsrepublic , you are correct. This should have been on the other thread
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
  • *Googles definition of "ructions"*
  • compsolutcompsolut Posts: 150
    Stuff like this, whether move related or not, really gets me upset at the human level. I understand that DC wants to keep profits for itself, but in doing so, they alienate the very reason why they have those characters to profit from. I find myself more and more drawn to the Image, IDW, and other creator owned publishers for this very reason.

    I have officially dropped the remaining DC titles I am buying to just Batman and Batmite. Who knows, when Snyder is done and Batmite's 6 issue mini is done . . . I might just be done with DC in general.

    Signed,
    ~ Grateful for Autumnlands Tooth and Claw, Saga, and Fade Out
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    This is why, at conventions, when aspiring artists tell me they want to work someday for DC or Marvel, I tell them "Don't."

    Make your own stuff. Own your own stuff.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    Torchsong said:

    This is why, at conventions, when aspiring artists tell me they want to work someday for DC or Marvel, I tell them "Don't."

    Make your own stuff. Own your own stuff.

    That. Or, as many have done, make a name telling great stories with their stuff, then use that to launch your own.
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,200
    WetRats said:
    I wonder if it's anything like a "Rusty Venture?"

    http://youtu.be/ykEGtwJuZIs
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    Mr_Cosmic said:

    WetRats said:
    I wonder if it's anything like a "Rusty Venture?"

    http://youtu.be/ykEGtwJuZIs
    Go team Venture

    image
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