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When Minimum-Wage Hikes Hit a San Francisco Comic-Book Store

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417763/when-minimum-wage-hikes-hit-san-francisco-comic-book-store-ian-tuttle

But that may not last. Hibbs says that the $15-an-hour minimum wage will require a staggering $80,000 in extra revenue annually. “I was appalled!” he says. “My jaw dropped. Eighty-thousand a year! I didn’t know that. I thought we were talking a small amount of money, something I could absorb.”
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Comments

  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    I'm of several minds on this:

    - Would be interesting to hear James Sime (Isotope) weigh in on the law, as I'm guessing he's also bound by it.

    - I wonder if we won't eventually reach the "contract between two adults" system Hibbs alludes to, where you have the $15 base, but an employer could say "I'll pay you $12, but you'll get a substantial discount on merchandise, either my cost or less".

    - Of course, if they didn't raise wages, who's going to be able to afford these funnybooks in the first place?
  • bamfbamfbamfbamf Posts: 718
    i think we're reaching the point where major cities can only support 1 comic book store...

    and this min wage law is just speeding up the invevitable demise of the comic book store...

    get used to reading only trades you order on amazon or dcbs or digital only on comixology
  • mwhitt80mwhitt80 Posts: 4,637
    i can't even make a wise crack about this because it makes me so upset, and I do my best not to talk political with internet friends.
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    Well, and this will be an unpopular comment, but do we *need* the comic book store anymore?

    - I don't need it to get my books, that's for sure. Even the indie ones thanks to Kickstarter. Most if not all come at a discount, and in the latter case, often come with extras and incentives.

    - I don't need it as a place to hang out and shoot the day away with my fellow comic brethren. What am I doing right now?

    - With a convention going on somewhere pretty much every weekend now, I don't necessarily need it to meet creators at an in-store appearance.

    I'm not saying this like it's a good thing, but the traditional comic book store is really in danger of becoming a dinosaur if they don't evolve and find new ways to bring in an audience. Most of the ones in my area stay afloat not through walk-in customers, but because they sell online. We have about eight different ones in my tiny hamlet (Phoenix, AZ).
  • fredzillafredzilla Posts: 2,131
    edited May 2015
    But I think you do have a point @Torchsong.

    If I happen to go to a brick and mortar store, I've seen many more that specialize in board/card games and comics. Many places have designated gaming areas too.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    edited May 2015
    Torchsong said:

    Well, and this will be an unpopular comment, but do we *need* the comic book store anymore?

    Yes.

    The FLCS I go to supports a community.

    It hosts special opening night shows of the comic book movies.

    It's a clean, well-run shop, with a staff who are very responsive and pleasant.

    It has a growing customer base because they do a brilliant job of promoting comics.

    Of course, it supports gaming, too. That's just smart business.

    In fact, I refuse to go digital because I believe in supporting a business that has been fair & friendly to me for years.

    There's more to a good comic shop experience than discounts.
  • RickMRickM Posts: 407
    "My business can only stay alive if I pay sub-poverty wages."

    The wage issue is not going to go away. The minimum wage was allowed to deteriorate for far too long, and when a pricy city like San Francisco tries to undo years of neglect in one swoop the change is drastic. Would have been less wrenching if the wage had increased 3% every year, but that never happened.

    I hope Hibbs can figure something out, because I hate when comic shops close, and I also think his staff probably deserve to make at least $15 an hour for their labor. One wonders how they are surviving on less than that now.
  • bamfbamfbamfbamf Posts: 718
    they are uber drivers after hours =)
  • kgforcekgforce Posts: 326
    edited May 2015
    Good article.

    In the article following it (about Borderlands Books):

    "Raising the minimum wage has become the new feel-good elixir of the Left, which loves the fact that its simplistic appeal can win over electorates in many cities. But the law of unintended consequences kicks in after the warm glow of voting for “a living wage” passes. Young people — especially minorities — are frozen out of an already tight job market and small businesses are least able to afford the extra expense of an increase."

    QFT

    In regards to comic book stores... I personally don't need them. I've gone digital.
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    Not to get political either, but I'm of the mindset that a minimum wage shouldn't necessarily equate to a "living wage". It's designed to compensate an entry level job, not a career. The increase can only be met if prices are hiked. But with the prices pre-printed on the comics, these guys don't have much choice. I'm convinced that this was poorly conceived, planned, and executed. Too late now, but I think $15 an hour may be a bit TOO progressive, even punitive, as is the case here.
  • CaptShazamCaptShazam Posts: 1,178
    edited May 2015
    I cannot afford to shop at my local store anymore. Without DCBS and to a lesser extent Amazon, I would be out of the hobby.

  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794

    I cannot afford to shop at my local store anymore. Without DCBS and to a lesser extent Amazon, I would be out of the hobby.

    This is fairly true of me as well. I had all but considered dropping out when I started listening to CGS and heard about DCBS. Safe to say I would be much more of a casual reader had I not started buying through them. I'll never not read comics, but it would certainly be more of a pastime than a hobby.


  • kgforcekgforce Posts: 326
    RickM said:

    kgforce said:

    Good article.

    In the article following it (about Borderlands Books):

    "Raising the minimum wage has become the new feel-good elixir of the Left, which loves the fact that its simplistic appeal can win over electorates in many cities. But the law of unintended consequences kicks in after the warm glow of voting for “a living wage” passes. Young people — especially minorities — are frozen out of an already tight job market and small businesses are least able to afford the extra expense of an increase."

    QFT

    In regards to comic book stores... I personally don't need them. I've gone digital.

    Actually, it's not so much "the truth" as it is an agenda, from the Right-leaning National Review. And the excerpt is an editorial, not an article.
    Truth... these mandated minimum wages hurt small businesses the most.
    Article/Editorial... whatever
  • ElsiebubElsiebub Posts: 338
    edited May 2015
    I'm not even a National Review fan, but it's pretty obvious that the measure would hurt small businesses the most. More people should have seen this coming. Major corporations can afford pay increases much more easily than little shops can. And it's little shops like Hibbs' place that give cities so much character.

    Meanwhile Google, Apple, and all sorts of tech companies get huge tax breaks in San Francisco. (What, do people still not realize that BOTH political parties can be shills for major corporations?)

    I'm all for a living wage, but what people have to realize is that it's basically funny-money at this point anyway. What good is $15 per hour when the cost of living in San Francisco will just rise and rise anyway? People are living beyond their means, especially the people in charge, from politicians to BIG businesspeople to landowners. I think it'd be better to start living more in our means, rather than just chasing the prices of everything upwards indefinitely. Unfortunately, for a lot of people who buy comics, it's those $3.99 and $4.99 cover prices that seem the most obvious examples of what they can cut out of their lives to start living more economically.

    Were Hibbs' employees just barely scraping by on what he was paying them? Or were they making ends meet? It seems like they were making ends meet. And I don't want to speak for them, but from what I know he has a pretty tight staff there. If someone came to them and said "You could keep everything as it is, or you could make $4 an hour more but that would mean 1) half of your friendly co-workers will be fired, and 2) the shop will go out of business in two years", what do you think they would have said? They'd probably have chosen to keep things as they were in order to keep working at a place they love indefinitely.

    Either way (and Hibbs himself has said this), raising the rate all at once was the real problem. Given enough time, business people can get creative and manage to withstand and even flourish if they only have to pay a LITTLE more every year. Whether it's a tax increase or a wage hike, as long as it's a little bit at a time, smart people can work with it. But raising it so much all at once? It's impossible to see this as anything other than an attack on small business so that big business (and sometimes government services) can swoop in and take their place and their property. Even politicians aren't so oblivious to reality. Everyone with economic sense knows this would happen, that's why virtually every other minimum wage hike in this country has been raised a bit at a time to allow non-gigantic businesses a chance to survive.

    Hibbs really has his work cut out for him and I wish him all the luck in the world. Unfortunately most of the merchandise he sells has the prices printed right on them, and there's no way he can take that new comic and put a $5.49 sticker over the $3.99 cover price and expect many customers to continue to shop in his store. He's gonna have to come up with creative solutions, maybe giving deeper discounts to incentivize customers to buy more than they otherwise would.
  • matchkitJOHNmatchkitJOHN Posts: 1,030
    There is a burger joint here in Michigan called Moo & Cluck and two years they touted they have a $15 min wage. The thing is they were able to structure that wage into their business plan from the get go. The article stated that the wage will be fully realized by 2018 which might give them time to maybe restructure. Less staff. No employee discounts.
  • hauberkhauberk Posts: 1,511
    Torchsong said:

    Well, and this will be an unpopular comment, but do we *need* the comic book store anymore?

    - I don't need it to get my books, that's for sure. Even the indie ones thanks to Kickstarter. Most if not all come at a discount, and in the latter case, often come with extras and incentives.

    - I don't need it as a place to hang out and shoot the day away with my fellow comic brethren. What am I doing right now?

    - With a convention going on somewhere pretty much every weekend now, I don't necessarily need it to meet creators at an in-store appearance.

    I'm not saying this like it's a good thing, but the traditional comic book store is really in danger of becoming a dinosaur if they don't evolve and find new ways to bring in an audience. Most of the ones in my area stay afloat not through walk-in customers, but because they sell online. We have about eight different ones in my tiny hamlet (Phoenix, AZ).

    Similar to @Wetrats, my LCS does quite a bit in the community. The Owner is active in the business district, participates heavily in community festivals and events, including providing kid friendly events, donates trades to the local library and a whole host of other things.

    He also knows his customers. I walk in and he'll point out books that he's aware of that are similar to my exhibited reading tastes, lets me know that he just added back issues in a series that I was bin diving for and otherwise offers a level of customer service.

    Ultimately, the community and the hobby would be a poorer place without his store.
  • hauberkhauberk Posts: 1,511
    There are a number of other issues at play here.

    1 - Yes, it's more impactful on small businesses - most are already running on a low margin to begin with. Certainly, major corporations can afford to pay higher wages, and will, but they'll do so be either raising prices or cutting hours/positions to do it. The profit margin must not waiver so something else has to give.

    2 - That focus on profits results in more people being pushed into jobs that were traditionally, and probably should continue to be jobs for high school and college students in search of gas/date/beer money.

  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    As mentioned, I have a number of comic stores in my area, and they fall under several business models that may or may not keep them afloat:

    - The Online Vendor: DCBS doesn't have a lock on online sales. I know a couple stores in my area make as much scratch from selling online via ebay or their own website. They do not use the DCBS advance-order model, but they do talk about how much they ship out in an average week, and in one store's case it's a staggering amount.

    - The More Than Just a Comic Store: A friend of mine runs a store that runs regular Heroclix and card tournaments with a buy-in. The store I went to to hawk redskirtsonline.com for FCBD also ran on this model. Oh there were comics, but they were alongside gaming materials. What's fun to watch is how his (relatively young) store is building a community, as many of you have talked about.

    - The Everything Store: You need a Pop Vinyl figure? How about a Settlers of Cataan module? Oh, need a t-shirt to go with that? And over here are some My Little Pony items we just got in. Comics? What are tho- oh yeah, we have some of those in the back.

  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 6,748
    I have eight (at last count, but it's constantly in flux) shops in my area. The shop I used to work at has always been More Than Just a Comic Store. It's always done a fair amount of gaming business, even though only about 5% of the space is devoted to gaming. The sci-fi/fantasy/horror novels don't do as well, but again, only about 5-10% of the floor space. Likewise the toys/statues/etc.

    We've got one shop who started out as an Online Vendor with a small physical shop (Diamond won't sell to vendors who don't have a physical space), but now they've got a huge location. They took over from a Family Dollar or something. Half the space is tables for gaming and a bar that serves beer but no liquor, a third is games, and the rest comics—they still do the online thing as well—and a small section of Pop Vinyl figures/Dr. Who stuff/Nanobrick sets/etc. They're basically all three models rolled into one.
  • kgforcekgforce Posts: 326
    hauberk said:

    kgforce said:

    RickM said:

    kgforce said:

    Good article.

    In the article following it (about Borderlands Books):

    "Raising the minimum wage has become the new feel-good elixir of the Left, which loves the fact that its simplistic appeal can win over electorates in many cities. But the law of unintended consequences kicks in after the warm glow of voting for “a living wage” passes. Young people — especially minorities — are frozen out of an already tight job market and small businesses are least able to afford the extra expense of an increase."

    QFT

    In regards to comic book stores... I personally don't need them. I've gone digital.

    Actually, it's not so much "the truth" as it is an agenda, from the Right-leaning National Review. And the excerpt is an editorial, not an article.
    Truth... these mandated minimum wages hurt small businesses the most.
    Article/Editorial... whatever
    Completely disagree on "Article/Editorial... whatever." Article connotes a level of journalistic integrity. Editorial is an opinion piece and is not required to offer fact when anecdote will suffice to support the opinion. The lack of discrimination between the two has done what may be irreparable harm to society by encouraging the divisive environment present today.
    Well, I certainly never intend to do harm to society with my posts here! My apologies.

    So... instead of writing "In the article following..." just imagine that I really meant to write "In the post following..."
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    I think gaming is doing a lot to merge the fandoms, particularly with Heroclix. My friend who runs the one store holds regular Heroclix tourneys. He tried to get me to bite, but I held off until he showed me the Batman 66 ones. I still haven't played the game, but I can't resist those little figures. :)
  • compsolutcompsolut Posts: 150
    Torchsong said:

    Well, and this will be an unpopular comment, but do we *need* the comic book store anymore?

    There appears to be one overlooked reason (besides community benefits) that isn't mentioned. How many people in this hobby love digging through back issue bins? I will guarantee that people looking for back issues will almost always prefer to go to a LCS and dig as opposed to pay the going rate on eBay, plus shipping. Cons are an option, but who can afford to pay $75 for a multi-day pass when you can pay that for hundreds of back issues?

    Also, building on community, the LCS I work at takes community one step farther. We are a safe place for kids and families. We pride ourselves on the fact that parents know they can bring Jimmy down, and let him hang out for 15 minutes while they run to the post office, and he will be safe. Now, we aren't running a daycare, but I think you understand what I am saying.

    Also, we provide a much needed outlet for people that would otherwise stay holed up in their houses, and not have as much of an enriching life by communicating with other people who have the same interests.

    We also are partnering with a local hospital to provide opportunities to patients to either get comics that they want, or to interact with gaming, when they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

    Are these reasons as to why YOU need an LCS - probably not, but these are reasons why the LCS can still be a pillar of a community or area.
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 6,748
    My shop actually makes more money through their back issues now than they did when I worked there in the ’90s. They've got 140, 150 long boxes and are constantly having to restock.
  • hauberkhauberk Posts: 1,511
    Ple
    kgforce said:

    hauberk said:

    kgforce said:

    RickM said:

    kgforce said:

    Good article.

    In the article following it (about Borderlands Books):

    "Raising the minimum wage has become the new feel-good elixir of the Left, which loves the fact that its simplistic appeal can win over electorates in many cities. But the law of unintended consequences kicks in after the warm glow of voting for “a living wage” passes. Young people — especially minorities — are frozen out of an already tight job market and small businesses are least able to afford the extra expense of an increase."

    QFT

    In regards to comic book stores... I personally don't need them. I've gone digital.

    Actually, it's not so much "the truth" as it is an agenda, from the Right-leaning National Review. And the excerpt is an editorial, not an article.
    Truth... these mandated minimum wages hurt small businesses the most.
    Article/Editorial... whatever
    Completely disagree on "Article/Editorial... whatever." Article connotes a level of journalistic integrity. Editorial is an opinion piece and is not required to offer fact when anecdote will suffice to support the opinion. The lack of discrimination between the two has done what may be irreparable harm to society by encouraging the divisive environment present today.
    Well, I certainly never intend to do harm to society with my posts here! My apologies.

    So... instead of writing "In the article following..." just imagine that I really meant to write "In the post following..."
    Please don't take that as a direct indictment, but we have whole networks providing 24-hours of op-ed (with a headline crawl at the bottom of screen) that have News in their official name. That's the lack of discrimination to which I refer.

    My comment was more about the slippery slope - a casual disregard offered to those questioning what The Real World was doing on Music Television surely contributed to its evolution to M(eaningless)TV
  • bamfbamfbamfbamf Posts: 718
    maybe a shop with space for gaming does not work in San Francisco because real estate space is so expensive and the lack of children in the city... seems like comic book shops can only hope to survive in suburbia?
  • I checked some other sites, which clarified things. The employees are actually making more than minimum wage right now (something I'd wondered about, since you can't actually live in parts of the Bay Area making minimum wage, even in a roommate situation. And SF is definitely one of those places.) However, Mr. Hibbs feels that if the minimum wage goes up, he needs to raise everyone's pay so that they continue to be over minimum wage. I'm not sure why the National Review omitted that piece of information, but I guess it didn't fit the story they wanted to do. It also makes the "contract between two adults" quote a little odd. I may join the Book of the Month club; besides a way to put my money where my mouth is as far as the minimum wage, it sounds like a good way to get exposure to books I wouldn't normally pick up.
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