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Secret Wars #2 of 8 (Spoilers)

This series is totally bananas. In a good way.

I love how different, at least so far, Battleworld, and this series, is from what I expected.

We've been seeing the Battleworld map for months now. And I figured that a lot of the different places in it would be isolated. That, basically, spreading out these different territories is just a way to give the different, greatest-hits-story lands a place to be. Like the different lands within Disney World's Magic Kingdom, let's say (I didn't realize the irony of that analogy at first). That you can basically walk from Fantasyland to Tomorrowland, and the border between them is arbitrary. It is just a transition from one genre or flavor of thing to another.

But what we is revealed in this issue is that Battleworld is actually all about borders. It is basically Hickman and Ribic doing a sort of giant, Game of Thrones' Westeros made out of Marvel Universe characters and ideas. And over the top of all of this-- ruling it, demanding order and worship, and perhaps even having struck a deal with the Beyonders to create it, is Doom. So instead of just being a kind of theme park (or video game) map of 'go here if you want this. Go there if you want that...', we are getting a set up that is all about power struggles and competing agendas. And we get Doom on the 'iron throne', and Thors as the watchers on the wall.

It's crazy. But so far, it totally works. A lot of this issue is expository, but I feel like they have enough mystery and story going on, and a smart selection of narrative characters, that the tour through Battleworld feels story driven rather than a data dump. It is a big, meaty read, this issue. Looks gorgeous. A lot of great designs, as there is a medieval flavor (or, perhaps, Doom-style flavor) that ties the different character designs together. And while I don't expect the execution of all the tie-ins to be as strong as the main series, it has been a long time since an event book has made me want to read so many of the tie-ins. Partly because they all have this big, exciting sand box to play in. As well as a very grounded (literally grounded) reason for the books set in the different parts of Battleworld to be able to make sense in relation to each other.

Great stuff. Give me the next one.

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Comments

  • TheOriginalGManTheOriginalGMan Posts: 1,763
    Holy crap! This book is crazy good!
  • BrackBrack Posts: 868
    This was a big improvement on issue #1 in every way, to the point where I wonder if issue #1 was drawn after this in order to make this #2 and get the end of the universe in this series rather than Avengers where it would have made more sense?

    This Secret Wars might be another riff on Moore's Twilight of the Superheroes pitch with a soupçon of Age of Apocalypse, but it's probably the best one I've seen so far. And best of all in this issue, we got a Mister Sinister who is so clearly Dr Frank-N-Furter, as intended.
  • This book is amazing. I never thought it could be this good.

    I love everything about this set-up, and I really wish I could let myself buy some of the tie-ins, but I'm trying to avoid them on principle of their price points.

    I like what Doom has done in giving himself everything Reed Richards had that he never did. It seems like good fodder for layered, complex characterization. Is it just jealousy? Or did he believe Reed was dead and therefore take it upon himself to take care of Reed's family?

    All of this is so interesting, seeing this composite world Doom made, what he did for the Marvel Universe. He set himself up as a god-emperor, sure, but he did it for the good of saving something of the multiverse. And it seems like it's working out.
  • TheOriginalGManTheOriginalGMan Posts: 1,763
    I can just imagine the boys over at DC going all "face palm" after reading the first 2 issues of this series. "THIS! THIS IS WHAT WE WANTED! AND YOU GAVE US CONVERGENCE???"
  • Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003

    I can just imagine the boys over at DC going all "face palm" after reading the first 2 issues of this series. "THIS! THIS IS WHAT WE WANTED! AND YOU GAVE US CONVERGENCE???"

    Actually, I imagine the PTB at DC telling their editors and freelancers, "Whatever you do, don't give us what Marvel's doing. We don't want to be like Marvel."
  • CaptShazamCaptShazam Posts: 1,178

    I can just imagine the boys over at DC going all "face palm" after reading the first 2 issues of this series. "THIS! THIS IS WHAT WE WANTED! AND YOU GAVE US CONVERGENCE???"

    Actually, I imagine the PTB at DC telling their editors and freelancers, "Whatever you do, don't give us what Marvel's doing. We don't want to be like Marvel."
    "Because we are not in the business of making the consumers happy and making the most money possible. That is so Levitz era."
  • HexHex Posts: 944
    Wow... just, wow. This is not at all what I was expecting from issue #2. Totally switched gears and caught me off guard. It set the stage for a BIG event. This is going to be epic. Loved the arrival of the Cabal. Things are going to get messy.

    My only complaint, as @David_D pointed out, is the Game of Thrones influence. A little too heavy and "on-the-nose" for my taste. A minor quibble, considering how awesome Issue #2 is.
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    David_D said:

    This series is totally bananas. In a good way.

    I love how different, at least so far, Battleworld, and this series, is from what I expected.

    We've been seeing the Battleworld map for months now. And I figured that a lot of the different places in it would be isolated. That, basically, spreading out these different territories is just a way to give the different, greatest-hits-story lands a place to be. Like the different lands within Disney World's Magic Kingdom, let's say (I didn't realize the irony of that analogy at first). That you can basically walk from Fantasyland to Tomorrowland, and the border between them is arbitrary. It is just a transition from one genre or flavor of thing to another.

    But what we is revealed in this issue is that Battleworld is actually all about borders. It is basically Hickman and Ribic doing a sort of giant, Game of Thrones' Westeros made out of Marvel Universe characters and ideas. And over the top of all of this-- ruling it, demanding order and worship, and perhaps even having struck a deal with the Beyonders to create it, is Doom. So instead of just being a kind of theme park (or video game) map of 'go here if you want this. Go there if you want that...', we are getting a set up that is all about power struggles and competing agendas. And we get Doom on the 'iron throne', and Thors as the watchers on the wall.

    It's crazy. But so far, it totally works. A lot of this issue is expository, but I feel like they have enough mystery and story going on, and a smart selection of narrative characters, that the tour through Battleworld feels story driven rather than a data dump. It is a big, meaty read, this issue. Looks gorgeous. A lot of great designs, as there is a medieval flavor (or, perhaps, Doom-style flavor) that ties the different character designs together. And while I don't expect the execution of all the tie-ins to be as strong as the main series, it has been a long time since an event book has made me want to read so many of the tie-ins. Partly because they all have this big, exciting sand box to play in. As well as a very grounded (literally grounded) reason for the books set in the different parts of Battleworld to be able to make sense in relation to each other.

    Great stuff. Give me the next one.

    What he said.
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782

    I can just imagine the boys over at DC going all "face palm" after reading the first 2 issues of this series. "THIS! THIS IS WHAT WE WANTED! AND YOU GAVE US CONVERGENCE???"

    Actually, I imagine the PTB at DC telling their editors and freelancers, "Whatever you do, don't give us what Marvel's doing. We don't want to be like Marvel."
    Make mine Marvel
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    Hex said:

    Wow... just, wow. This is not at all what I was expecting from issue #2. Totally switched gears and caught me off guard. It set the stage for a BIG event. This is going to be epic. Loved the arrival of the Cabal. Things are going to get messy.

    My only complaint, as @David_D pointed out, is the Game of Thrones influence. A little too heavy and "on-the-nose" for my taste. A minor quibble, considering how awesome Issue #2 is.

    Maybe Victor (we're on a first name basis) is a GoT fan and his subconscious influenced his world building
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    I'm not trying to be "that guy" but Doom has had power and been in control before ...once under Hickman.
    "Here, I can build."
    "I found it...beneath me."

  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    "How to destroy a man: grant him his heart's desire"
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782

    This book is amazing. I never thought it could be this good.

    I love everything about this set-up, and I really wish I could let myself buy some of the tie-ins, but I'm trying to avoid them on principle of their price points.

    I like what Doom has done in giving himself everything Reed Richards had that he never did. It seems like good fodder for layered, complex characterization. Is it just jealousy? Or did he believe Reed was dead and therefore take it upon himself to take care of Reed's family?

    All of this is so interesting, seeing this composite world Doom made, what he did for the Marvel Universe. He set himself up as a god-emperor, sure, but he did it for the good of saving something of the multiverse. And it seems like it's working out.

    I've always fancied Byrne's Doom. He's not a villian (well, he does kill people and destroy worlds, but you know what i mean). He has his own agenda and things like morals and the laws of man are for lesser men. Anyway, the world is governed by rules and these rules do not stop chaos or misfortune. Doom has a better way (he is Doom, after all). In Emperor Doom, here is no famine, no war, no poverty. As long as he has absolute control and we obey, everything will be fine (pay no attention to that Thanos behind the curtain) .
  • luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392
    I actually read Marvel Graphic Novel: Emperor Doom last week. This is that to Nth degree. I'm loving this series.
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    I want a copy. I just picked up Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment(15.95 at my lcs). Emperor Doom would round it out nicely.
  • luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392
    I read it in the Avengers Epic Collection: Judgement Day.

    Also has the X-Men vs Avengers mini.

    Lots of classic Avengers at a reasonable price too!!
  • BrackBrack Posts: 868
    Read an old article Warren Ellis wrote about Hickman's work, where he talked about how "Everything connects, everything reflects something else", and it made me realise that his Marvel work has that on a grand scale.

    His FF run is reflected in his Ultimates run, his Ultimates run is reflected in his Avengers run, and Secret Wars is a grand reflection on all three. His Ultimate Reed Richards/The Maker was already a reflection of 616-Doctor Doom (scarred face, covered by a metal mask, supreme vanity in thinking he is always the one in the right), and now in Secret Wars, with "our" Doom as the saviour of worlds, we have him opposed by a Reed Richards aligned with a team of cosmic nihilists.

    And presumably as they had stolen 616-Reed's design to survive, the inference is that he also survived (along with Thor, Starlord, Black Panther, Capt Marvel and possibly Spidey, Cyclops, Sue, Ben, Johnny and the FF children).
  • Brack said:

    And presumably as they had stolen 616-Reed's design to survive, the inference is that he also survived (along with Thor, Starlord, Black Panther, Capt Marvel and possibly Spidey, Cyclops, Sue, Ben, Johnny and the FF children).

    Spider-Man and Cyclops should be fine, they were in the same part of the ship as Reed, Thor, Quill, T'Challa, and Carol. I got the impression that the Sue and FF children we saw serving Doom this issue were rescued from the white nothingness. With this in mind, Commissioner Thor must be Ben, and it follows that the fiery Galactus is Johnny. They were molded according to Doom's will the same way Doctor Strange was -- Stephen was with Doom for his attack on the Beyonders.
  • RepoManRepoMan Posts: 327
    This issue lost me. I wanted this series to be about the Marvel Universe, not alternate versions of the characters (or however they are explaining this). It just feels like the resent button is too obvious now since the story isn't even about the main Marvel U. Yea, this is heading to the Convergence way of reading. I'll just pick up the last issue when it wraps up and heads to the status quo of whatever comes out after it.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    edited May 2015
    @RepoMan I won't tell you to enjoy it if you didn't.

    But to be fair, though the setting is filled with alternate versions, the Cabal that came out of that ship is from the 616. It is the 616 Doom playing god. The 616 Doctor Strange is active. And I expect that Reed, T'Challa and others from the 616 will end up being the major players in this. Like the original Secret Wars, they have gone to a different place. Unlike the original, the denizens of that place are these fun, designed alternates instead of arbitrary aliens. But I think this is still a Marvel Universe (Character) story, just as the original SW was. And is taking place in the MU as much as the original did.
  • BrackBrack Posts: 868
    I suspect ultimately the problem with this series is it is going to play better the more of Hickman's Marvel work you have read. It is based in a lot of Marvel continuity, spread across multiple titles and has had 6 years of comics building towards it. In that sense, for bad and good, it feels like an alien object compared to 90% of other Marvel/DC comics events.

    I've liked it a lot as a finale to Hickman's Avengers' but after reading his Ultimates and the finale of his Fantastic Four (which this issue is a direct sequel to), I love it even more. The scale of his endeavour is jaw dropping, but I wonder if that will come across if you only read Secret Wars.
  • SolitaireRoseSolitaireRose Posts: 1,445
    I was talking with my podcast partner a few months ago about how it been a long time since Marvel had used Dr Doom and I was really in the mood for one...and that it seemed Doom had fallen away in the modern Marvel.

    Glad I was wrong.
  • shroud68shroud68 Posts: 457
    I have read Hickman's FF and Avengers run in trade. As a long time Doom fan this version, Hickman's touch, is definitive, classic and recognizable in his arrogance. But with a modern touch, his bond with Valeria is unexpected but fits. Hickman's Marvel is thrilling. That he gets to tie up the loose ends in 616 is exciting. Time Runs Out as far as I read was riveting stuff and as an intelligent fan, if I do say so myself, I'm glad he went complex and thought provoking. The best action comes out of the unanswerable questions which what his Avengers stuff is all about. In one issue he actually made me root for Captain America to lose. I can't wait to dive into this story. I have no sympathy for fans who choke on its density. I've seen too many Duex Ex Machina in comics over the years. Hickman seems intent on at least doing something different even if he resorts to some tropes at times. To compare this to simplistic fan fiction like Axis or soap operas likeCivil War misses the point entirety. Go out with a bang not a whimper.
  • HexHex Posts: 944
    shroud68 said:

    I have no sympathy for fans who choke on its density. I've seen too many Duex Ex Machina in comics over the years. Hickman seems intent on at least doing something different even if he resorts to some tropes at times. To compare this to simplistic fan fiction like Axis or soap operas likeCivil War misses the point entirety. Go out with a bang not a whimper.

    Yeah, yeah... I'm with you. Hickman has been crafting one heck of a story, and I wouldn't miss it for the world.
    But don't get too high on your horse that you miss out on the disposable hilarity that is Deadpool's Secret Secret Wars! There is enough room in the longbox to enjoy both the "high" and the "low" art.
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    shroud68 said:

    I have read Hickman's FF and Avengers run in trade. As a long time Doom fan this version, Hickman's touch, is definitive, classic and recognizable in his arrogance. But with a modern touch, his bond with Valeria is unexpected but fits. Hickman's Marvel is thrilling. That he gets to tie up the loose ends in 616 is exciting. Time Runs Out as far as I read was riveting stuff and as an intelligent fan, if I do say so myself, I'm glad he went complex and thought provoking. The best action comes out of the unanswerable questions which what his Avengers stuff is all about. In one issue he actually made me root for Captain America to lose. I can't wait to dive into this story. I have no sympathy for fans who choke on its density. I've seen too many Duex Ex Machina in comics over the years. Hickman seems intent on at least doing something different even if he resorts to some tropes at times. To compare this to simplistic fan fiction like Axis or soap operas likeCivil War misses the point entirety. Go out with a bang not a whimper.

    Nicely said. Hickman's Doom is a perfect continuation of Byrne's. Having Val connect Doom to the Richards is odd and yet seems right (as long as you disregard Waid's Unthinkable...a topic to another time).
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    For people jumping in with Secret War w/o any prior knowledge there is always something called the interweb?the information super highway? Something like that. I hear Wikipedia is like an electronic encyclopedia delivered right to your door for free (no free steak knives, though) .

    Secret Wars is the end of an era. I'm sure it will set up some things to come but FCBD issues show a Marvel Universe simiar to what we've seen before and not the Doom of Thrones we are seeing currently.
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    Btw, great issue. Best.Sinister. Ever. If he we consistently written like this, I would give a damn about the character. Instead, I view him as a poorly defined villian with a Summers boys fetish.

    What consequences did Hyperion receive for his part in all this?
  • spidspid Posts: 203
    I got my DCBS order so I was able to catch up to this issue. You know people have their gripes over continuity, but man this event shows me why I love it particularly Marvel continuity. This series, and the reveals in Avengers a few months ago, really bring me back to picking up 2nd printings in three packs at local store of the original series as a kid. I picked up the last three issues that way and I was blown away with what I saw.

    Hickman does such a great drop of bringing that same sort feeling with modern flair. He is bringing all his new ideas and meshing those with the grand daddy of Marvel events. At the end of the day this boils down to Dr. Doom vs the Beyonder with the heroes/villains caught in the middle.

    I know why Marvel choose these universe to explore, but I am curious why Doom would choose these worlds to use to craft his Battleworld. Or is Hickman dipping back to Secret Wars again by giving Doom the fatal flaw exposed in the original series. No matter perfect a world he creates a way to trip himself up.
  • popestupopestu Posts: 782
    spid said:

    I got my DCBS order so I was able to catch up to this issue. You know people have their gripes over continuity, but man this event shows me why I love it particularly Marvel continuity. This series, and the reveals in Avengers a few months ago, really bring me back to picking up 2nd printings in three packs at local store of the original series as a kid. I picked up the last three issues that way and I was blown away with what I saw.

    Hickman does such a great drop of bringing that same sort feeling with modern flair. He is bringing all his new ideas and meshing those with the grand daddy of Marvel events. At the end of the day this boils down to Dr. Doom vs the Beyonder with the heroes/villains caught in the middle.

    I know why Marvel choose these universe to explore, but I am curious why Doom would choose these worlds to use to craft his Battleworld. Or is Hickman dipping back to Secret Wars again by giving Doom the fatal flaw exposed in the original series. No matter perfect a world he creates a way to trip himself up.

    Well said, @spid .
    I really don't want to see Doom fail. Hopefully he will figure out how not to loose.
  • luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392
    I'm getting worried about Secret Wars. Not the content mind you, I'm loving the series and the mini's I'm reading are all pretty good too.

    I'm worried about the release schedule. I'm hearing #4 has dropped two weeks and #5 has dropped 6 weeks. Because of this a lot of the tie ins have also dropped due the content within.

    I really hope they pull this together and keep up a regular release schedule.
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