Seen Ant Man? (Spoilers)
David_D
Posts: 3,884
Figured that, as there are still some conversations going on in the original thread amongst people that haven't seen it yet, it would be better to make a separate, spoilery one, and amalgamate later. I moved some comments over (not that they were spoilery, they were mindful not to be, but figured as the first people that saw it, you could kick off the discussion for those that have seen it here.
So, spoilers will be ahead...
So, spoilers will be ahead...
Comments
We have a winner!!!
Waiting for second post credit scene now
Good.
I felt like there were, and I think this is apropos of the two separate different writing teams, two different movies, each with their own tones, poorly smashed together. Each of those movies, if fully committed to on their own, would have been ones I would enjoy. But what I saw felt like a mess. With fun in it, sure. But just too much dumb in it for me to feel like I could go along for the ride and enjoy it. And too many thin justifications for various set pieces.
I think they should have EITHER stuck with the original, long-term (and Wright-directed) plan of letting it just be its own thing. I think part of what made Guardians so successful in feeling fresh and distinct from the Marvel movies is that it was so separate, and so different in tone from the MCU that had come before. (And they were helped by being, I don't know, millions of light years and many narrative years away from the influence the Avengers were having on Earth.
OR they should have scrapped more of what I assume to be the original stand-alone ideas and made all of this fully a movie about a down-on-his-luck guy suddenly finding himself in the superhero game, in a world where the superheroes are very, very different people than he is, and he has to figure out how he matches up. It could still have a lighter tone than the rest of the MCU. But I think they could have found story driven ways to mark that territory. To basically have 'We are not here to be Avengers/ We are disruptors to the Avengers market' be more of a driving idea, coming from Pym.
The potential was there for this-- his mentor, Pym, was a Cold War espionage guy in an age before the Avengers. Maybe he doesn't like what SHIELD has become, how they have consolidated power. Maybe he finds the ascendence of the Avengers very troubling.
I think some of these ideas, these connections, were tilted at (which felt like late additions to the script they already have-- a throw away line about Stark here, some random suit wearers getting called Hydra there. But the idea that this was a world that has public, capital-S Superheroes in it should have affected every time a person saw someone in one of those suits. There should have been some talk about whether putting on a supersuit in this world means that SHIELD comes and immediately shuts you down. Things like that. So much of this movie still felt like story beats from a script where (to borrow a Del Close term) Ant-Man is the one and only Unusual Thing. But put him in a world that already has so many unusual things happening in it recently, and then different things have to be true to that world.
Heck, when Lang got into that vault, he basically should have thought, 'Wait. Is this guy an Avenger or something?' because that is the world he lives in.
Deciding to still be in his daughter's life in a world where you KNOW what happened in the Battle of New York, and when a city in Eastern Europe got lifted into the sky, etc. You're in a world where you have to think about that getting near your family. (And, earlier this summer, we see a plotline about a hero keeping their family off the grid and far away for exactly that reason.)
And, no, I don't need an Ant-Man movie to be as dark and heavy as other Avengers ones. I would love it to be its own thing, but they didn't go that way. And I think the half-measures of trying to shoehorn years of prepping one movie into being this other kind of movie just didn't end up coming together. At least, not for me. You could see them straining at it.
Oh well. I wasn't big on Avengers: Age of Ultron either, so for Marvel movies this wasn't my summer. But so it goes.
TLDR Version: I wish they committed to one movie or the other. They tried to make both, and it asks for too many leaps from the audience. Too much dumb.
So I would say I enjoyed myself more after Ant-Man than I did after AoU.
What I liked:
1) Hank Pym's back story... the fact that he was a forgotten super hero.. that he didn't like Stark and didn't play nicely with Shield.. that he was a bad ass.. that he was brilliant scientist AND a bad ass.. how he tragically lost Janet and how by the end of the movie, i know he's going to go sub atomic and try to find her!
2) The sub atomic part/the quantum space part... i think this is a set up for Doctor Strange to be honest.. there was something magical about the sub atomic scene when Scott Lang kept shrinking
3) The comedy and the pace... to me the movie did not bog down, like Avengers 2 did, i think it was mainly due to the comedy relief throughout the movie.. and the fast pace of a heist movie was really awesome.. the 3-men in Scott's ANTourage were great.. the giant ant and the giant train were awesome and the whole theater busted out laughing!
4) Paul Rudd and Evangeline Lily... both perfectly cast for their roles.. rudd starts off as an awkward, reluctant hero... and he never evolves into the super stud that chris pratt kind of evolved into by the end of GOTG.. Scott Lang was still awkard until the end.. when he was kissing Hope.. Lily is just hot and awesome
5) The WASP... as Hope Van Dyme said... "ITS ABOUT DAMN TIME!!!".. i hope this is the beginning of a slew of Marvel super heroines!
6) THE ANTS... the ants were awesome, but i would say the special effects were not the greatest in this movie... a lot of obvious CG..
7) the shared universe / cross-over / nerdy goodness.. the Falcon fight.. the mentioning of Spider-Man.. the mentioning of the events of Avengers 2.. it's stuff comic nerds get off on
Final) It was as good as Iron Man 1 was.. great origin story, charismatic protagonist, funny, unique action sequences
My updated Top 10 Marvel Movies Ranking
1) Avengers 1
2) Guardians of the Galaxy
3) Cap 2 Winter Soldier
4) Iron Man
5) Ant Man
6) Avengers 2
7) Thor 2
8) Cap 1
9) Thor 1
10) Iron Man 3
i left out Iron Man 2 and Hulk
=)
1. Avengers
2. Winter Soldier: Cap 2
3. Iron Man
4. Avengers Age of Ultron
5. Captain America
6. Guardians of the Galaxy
7. Ant-Man
8. Iron Man 2
9. Thor
10. Thor: The Dark World
11. Incredible Hulk
12. Iron Man 3
Says a lot about the strength of these movies that outside Iron Man 3 I really enjoyed the Thor movies.
The entire theater went nuts
Can't wait for Hank to go searching for Janet. In fact, I found Michael Douglas surprisingly awesome as Dr. Pym. I was all set to hate him, and Marvel studios for throwing him aside for Scott Lang. Instead, I thought his role was perfect.
Reed stated to look close in the Sub-Quantum zone. Theres someone else there. Douglas stated he'd love for Zeta-Jones to play Janet...and I can't say I hate that idea.
M
Guess I'll have to go see it again!
M
I think it's obvious Janet is alive in the microverse. I was half expecting her to help Ant-Man find his way back...though her being right there would've been too convenient.
EDIT: So someone else was there? Cool!
EDIT EDIT: 90% of the theater left as soon as the credits started. After the first scene everyone else, except my wife and I, got up to leave. My wife actually yelled out "there's one more!" Two people listened and stayed.
M
The Good
It's an interesting cast that works well.
Nice change of pace to see a Marvel film where the stakes are more down to earth, and not the end of the world.
Special effects were decent for the most part. I felt like a lot of thought was put into making Ant-Man and all his powers more interesting than the comics often have. Some occasional obvious CGI, but nothing worse than I've experienced in many similar films.
The Bad
As David D wrote, the tone is often uneven. Many times the film tries to be its own thing, but then it gets saddled with references to Hydra, unnecessary cameos, a tie-in to the Avengers, etc. They allowed Guardians of the Galaxy to play in its own universe for the most part, so I don't understand why Ant-Man couldn't as well. If it's because they need him for one scene in Captain America: Civil War, then I think all the creative shuffling behind the scenes is awfully silly in hindsight.
Try as it may, it never shakes the feeling that it's a lesser Marvel film. Even though I enjoyed it, I still found myself thinking "Why this film?" Like David D, I also didn't care for Avengers 2, and it would have been nice for the summer to go out with a bang, with something like Black Panther or Doctor Strange or Captain Marvel. I feel like the Marvel films are in a holding pattern, as we wait for the big stuff to come next year.
That said, I actually liked it better than Avengers 2, more than Iron Man 2, maybe even more than Iron Man 3. If it holds up on a second viewing, I might even rank it above both Thor films.
Also, I looked very carefully during the Quantum Universe sequence. I saw nothing aside from the trippy effects. If there is someone else in there, it's very quick.