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Is comic book collecting or is it book collecting?
phansford
Posts: 221
As for collect-ability or increasing in value, the (Insert Title of Comic Book Series) omnibus which came out in 2008 has doubled in price, originally selling for $125 (before discounts, same as this WBN omni), is now selling for $250+. On the other hand, (Insert Floppy Issue) is probably at its peak value and will probably never increase by more than inflation.There seems to be an opinion out there that is counter to my definition of being a collector of comic books. I find the above quote to be the typical attitude these days. (Some redactions to protect the OP and make the comment fairly generic ). I think this would be an interesting discussion. Do you really consider collecting hard-bound or soft bound books comic book collecting?
Somehow buying a hard-bound or soft-bound book that collects a story arc or a complete run of comic book issues is now thought of as being equal to collecting comic books. Or at least that seems to be the perception if you were to read the above quote. I wholeheartedly disagree.
While I certainly purchased "Archive" editions to fill in the early issue holes of my collection, I never once considered those books as part of my comic book collection. I placed little value to them as compared to the original floppies. I consider them to be books and there is a separate market for collecting books then there is for collecting comic books. My concerns for my book collection was much different than those of my comic collection. Keeping the dust jacket in excellent condition, reducing shelf wear verses rolled spines and acidic backer boards.
Books are for the most part not ephemeral items. They can last for 100's of years. Their value can be based many things, mostly first edition/printing, subject matter, author, condition (obviously), and even the inclusion of a dust jacket can increase the value of a book. Also - depending upon the age and rarity of a book, restoration or rebinding does not make collecting the particular specimen persona non grata. I recently restored and rebound a first edition of Frank Lloyd Wright's Ausgeführte Bauten (Executed Buildings) published by Ernst Wasmuth A.-G., Berlin in 1911. These were only available for purchase directly from Mr. Wright and what unsold copies Mr. Wright had were destroyed in the murderous fire at Taliesin of 1914. The restoration of that book did little to affect its value. Restoring a comic book to the degree I did that rare book will surely devaluate it to near worthlessness.
Lets face it…. if you take a collection of floppies and bind them, you just devalued them to a serious collector.
Guess I should state that since I sold the comic collection, I went back headlong into building my architecture library including buying out-of-print editions for the library. Since my son started architecture school 4 years ago (he's now working on his Master of Architecture), my buying has really intensified. I have someone to share the library with and to purchase great O/P books for.
We are already seeing a decreased value of "Marvel Masterworks" from their first edition/printing to their "reprint" editions. So I would content that the nature of collecting these books and their value is following the trends that one finds in the "rare" book market. Personally - I think there is a limit to any sort of increase in value of a "Archive" edition book. The singular omnibus book will never have the value equal to the collected and complete series of floppies. Making a comparison to an a Marvel Masterworks of Spider-man to a copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 falls short for me. Particularly since I owned both at one time.
As for comic books… they are VERY ephemeral items. The acidic newsprint of the golden age and silver age makes them quite the ticking bomb of self destruction. There is only one edition of Amazing Spider-man #1 or Amazing Fantasy #15.
I understand that there are a ton of people here on the forum that couldn't think of spending $100 for a comic book. (But would gladly sell it if one got to that value. HaHa). But there are those collectors out there. I was one of them. I think the most I spent of a comic book was probably in the $300 to $400 range (Superman #12) I would drop $250 an early Supes or Batman or Capt America before I would ever purchase an omnibus for that amount. Just saying.
Now don't get me wrong - I love a collected trade paperback as much as the next guy. Why read that frail copy of Fantastic Four #49 when you can read the Masterworks or Essentials copy on your shelf. But I think its apples and oranges when we start comparing them as collectables.
On the other side….. you'll only sell those hard-bound books to other comic geeks. Keep them in good shape. And don't hesitate to have a clamshell book custom made to protect them on your shelf - if you intend to start collecting books that collect comic books. And you should start reading about how to properly store and protect those books…. you can't slab'em. HaHa
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But hear me out. Comics are literature, and yet they are not literature. A first printing of Moby Dick is nigh-invaluable to a Melville reader. And where comic books themselves - individual issues - are concerned, nobody can deny the value of Amazing Fantasy #15 or Action Comics #1.
Where collected trades are concerned, it's simply a different story, because the contents of said books can be re-packaged any number of times any number of ways depending on the whim of the publisher. So I lumped up anyone paying hundreds for a trade collection as "a fool and their money". Because if there is time and a market for it, you'll see those books again. Yes, perhaps with a different cover, but the content itself will by and large be the same.
Good example - Alpha Flight. I believe there's one Classic trade edition that was released, then the trade run got cancelled, and the book was pretty pricey last I checked on the back market. But there's little to no doubt in my mind Marvel will at some point reprint the Byrne run again. If I'd spent $100+ on that first book, I'd be kicking my own ass as I watched it become "irrelevant" <- note the quotes there.
While NONE of the issues in my other runs (She Hulk, Namor, Star Wars, etc) are below NM-. I also tend to bag and board any new books I pick up after I read them, actually that's how they ship.
If your point of collecting comics is to eventually get a return, then paying a premium for a book like Werewolf By Night #32 seems less wise than grabbing an omnibus and reselling it in a year or three, but if you are buying it as your "white whale" and completing a run just as a collector and not as a speculator, then by all means, you ought to pay what you can afford and get that comic book.
I tend to double-dip and collect a run AND grab an Omni so I can read the series and keep the original comics bagged.
Tomb of Dracula Omnibuses are high because Marvel hasn't reprinted them yet. You can argue with me but I've watched 1st ed. asking prices plumet on omnibus reprints.
Collected Editions just aren't the same in collectors/speculators minds as single issues.
There are some rare exceptions like a 1st Edition Squadron Supreme tpb, but that is because it is rare and unique. However there are always some exceptions.
I love omnibuses and absolutes I read the mess out of them, but I've never paid above book price. I'm not even sure I've ever bought one at retail price.
I'm actually kind of pissed that Master of Kung Fu is being reprinted in the omnibus format. I don't think I'm going to buy them, despite my love for the series. I have most of the issues anyway, and maybe the omnibuses will bring the prices down on the back issues—which really aren't all that expensive now—and I can fill the holes that way. It will probably be cheaper for me that way than spending omnibus money.
Like mwhitt, I don't think I've paid full retail for any of them.
FWIW - I read the floppies I bought regardless of the price I paid. However, I quit reading the early issues of my ASM collection once the Masterwork books came out. While there were a couple of books I purchased as "investments", I really was a collector not a speculator. I can count on one hand the number of comic books I bought as an "investment" and I can say that all but one of those panned out. HaHa. Typically it was a new title that I would buy multiples of such as Omega the Unknown #1 or Spectacular Spider-man #1. Goes without saying that I did not put myself thru college with those books. HaHa.
The one thing I would say is that, in my experience, there's not much of an overlap on what collectors focus on. People who are into the collector mentality tend to either be really into valuable comics or valuable collected editions, but not both. At least, that's my personal experience and what I've seen with other people online and in person. So even though the collector mentality of both types of things is very similar, people tend to focus on either one or the other, if they focus on either.
A few years ago I was into collected editions because I wanted to grow my (reading) library, and at the same time I got to know which trades and HCs were worth money. I'd almost play musical chairs with my collection: selling or trading floppies in order to fund HC or Omnibus purchases that collected the same issues... and then at times when the collected editions would peak in value, I'd sell them to buy back the floppies, or buy a cheaper TPB edition of the same material, or whatever.
About a year ago I got into collecting valuable (and valuable-ish) single issues and haven't really looked back. Every now and then I'll check and see if one of my out-of-print Omnibuses is worth selling, but I still value them as reading material and library artifacts, so I rarely sell any of them at this point. Really I only ever sold some of them in order to help fund the comic collected edition library I wanted, which I pretty much have now, so there's less desire on my part to purchase and flip HCs and TPBs. And I'll still buy new collected editions when one comes out that reprints a story I want to have.
I understand that a lot of this flipping and speculating is distasteful to people. I think it's fine as long as the people involved still appreciate the CONTENT of what they're buying and selling. It's like I told a local shop owner (who sells $1 comics in his arts and crafts store) the other day when he expressed shock that I had spent about $100 for a 9.6 CGC copy of Uncanny X-Men #205 certified signed by Chris Claremont. "If it's sealed up like that, how can you even read the thing?" he asked. "Bob," I told him, "that issue is the first X-Men comic I ever bought when I was a kid. I have three other copies of it, including reprints, including the copy I got when I was five years old. I've already read the story a million times. I wanted really nice copy of it because it means something to me."
I still consider myself a comic book collecter in that all of the books contain comics. I understand how someone could say that I am a book collector, I just do not see it that way. I am not collecting things for for potiential resell value. I collect them because I like them and want to read them. I have no desire to sell any of my collection. I have given away stuff that I am not going to read again. Mostly to friends with children to hopefully introduce the kids to comics.
Because I am not looking at an a potiential resell, I do not pay a lot for out of print stuff. It is just not worth it for me. If I am buying an out of print collected edition, I never get omnibuses and I do not spend more than around 1.5 times the initial cover price. I think I have only broken that rule one - for a DC archives Legion of Super Hero Book that I needed to complete my set. I think I paid double cover price for that.
I get an occasional new release omnibuses. I generally like them. Marvel does a great job with the binding and they are not too difficult to read. DC is hit or miss with the binding quality. Some are just too big. The Death of Superman Omnibus was ridiculously huge. The Perez Wonder Woman Omnibus was great though.
So, whether you're a collector, or a speculator, or just a fan of WBN, my point is, get it now while you can still get it for less than $75 - it'll likely never be more affordable.
I'll stick with my Essentials, though.
The part I don't get is that they've released the same material in trades. You can have the same stuff for $100 less than what people are asking for the first omnibus volume.
That being said, DC does (did) a much better job with their Showcase series than Marvel did with the Essentials. Much better production work to make sure the artwork was clean and reproduced well. Some of the pages in the Essentials are pretty crappy repros.
Some points:
1. In both pursuits, a key point is first printing of original material. In the book world, you start with a first printing (first edition, first printing, first state). Everything that comes after that is a reprint (or at least a correction) of some sort. And, generally, prices are highest for the original source and decline depending how many versions have been printing since.
2. 99% of Omnibus/trades are reprints, either in collected form or a reprint of an existing volume (paperbacks are usually reprints of a hardcover version in the book world). The “original” is almost always a floppy book. So, if you are collecting trades, you probably should be less concerned with long-term value, as you do not have an original printing (except in rare cases). This is also generally true if you collect floppy book reprints.
3. This does not mean that Omnibus and trade books don't have value, but here the value will be based on the quality of the volume and its condition, not on it having original source material (most of the time.) A good parallel would be if you collect Charles Dickens. Most of Dickens works were serialized, kinda like comics, and later collected in volumes. Those volumes have value as first collected volumes, and later volumes can have value as well based on the quality of the printing (many were hand-bound, some with hand-painting and other cool features.)
4. Over the long term, original source material almost always wins out. Yes, your Omnibus may double based on what you bought it for and if it's out of print, but most likely, over the long term, the value of the original source material will usually appreciate more and have a higher overall value, unless the collected edition is truly compelling.
5. Earlier is almost always better, with rare exception. In both comics and books, earlier printings generally (but not always) have smaller runs, expanding as the character (in comics) or author (in fiction books) grows in popularity. If you collect Ernest Hemingway, his most valuable book is Tortilla Flat (his first). If you collect F Scott Fitzgerald, it’s This Side of Paradise (his first). Both are better known for other books (Fitzgerald for Gatsby and Hemingway for several), but the “first” is almost always more valuable. So, if you are collecting trades, you should still be concerned with the number of printings, as a first printing should still be more valuable than later printing long-term and hardcover should be more valuable that soft.
Me, I'm not. Collected editions aren't all I buy. If I were, because I also "collect"/hoard books, I'd only call myself a book collector. If I didn't also collect books, then I'd call myself a comic book collector. But what most people would call me is a book hoarder.
I don't know what to call other people.
krustycook - Excellent post. Thanks.
My guess is there probably are omnibus editions that will go up in price and claim collectible status, but I have no idea what one should look for. Maybe some first printings of Walking Dead hard covers? Or the omnibus? Those seem the most likely since Walking Dead is likely to produce the highest number of fans that might want these. Probably first printings of Sandman hardcovers are a good bet too. I think the upcoming reprints of master Of Kung Fu are probably a good bet because Marvel will not always have the favor of the owners of Fu Manchu and there will always be fans to talk up the run as one of the best comics of that era.
As far as books not being affected by restoration as far as price, clearly you aren't collecting modern first editions. Rebinding a pricey first edition might kill most of the value. It certainly will kill a lot of the market for it. I guess it would depend a lot on what kind of restoration we're talking about, but I can't think of any restorative that wouldn't affect the value of a book.
The key being this book is the first book to expose Wright's work to an international audience and thus spark the European Modern Movement. Its a seminal work affecting the course architectural history. It was the precursor to the larger and more extensively published Wasmuth Portfolio. Prior to these two publications… the "Little Wasmuth" which I own and the large Wasmuth Portfolio, Wright's work was unknown outside of the Midwest.
Again…. you could only purchase the book directly from Frank Lloyd Wright and most of the copies were destroyed in the Taliesin Fire.
This isn't like owning a first edition of "To Kill a Mocking Bird". This is much, much different and very unique. Restoring this book was like saving one of the last living specimens of an endangered species. ;)