Well, now that he and I won't have anything to trade, I think for most all of my Marvel reading I will just take the 6 month gap and wait for Marvel Unlimited. I certainly have plenty of other books, especially from Image, to be reading on paper.
This is anecdotal, of course. I am not saying that how I was doing it is common enough to really factor into what this change means for Marvel, or to retailers. But figured I would give a personal anecdote of how I was using these codes, and what it did to my buying habits, to go along with talking about it overall.
That's another good point, @David_D. I don't think Marvel has any idea how this is going to affect sales for them, but the current/old model of including a digital copy of the issue you were buying hasn't generated more revenue for them, so they've decided to tweak the model. There must be several things those codes meant to various buyers. Some used them to trade, like yourself, some kept the floppies and sold their codes, some kept the digital and sold their floppies, or traded, donated, or gave away the floppies, and still others never looked twice at the digital codes and just left the sticker in the book.
While this change in the type of reward using the codes will bring may affect readers differently, the biggest effect that will touch ALL Marvel readers is that the price of their books seems to be creeping further and further up. Marvel has a lot of $4.99 and $5.99 titles now and now, without added value of extra content that readers found to be useful (in whatever way) there will be even more resistance to the higher price points of Marvel Comics. Their recent practice of charging $4.99 for the first issues of their soft reboots and even $9.99 cover price of other so-called 'important' issues is going over like a lead balloon with most readers.
Remember-- they were rolled out at at time when there were still $2.99 books, that did not come with the codes. The codes only came with the $3.99 ones, and were described, right on the cover dress, as a "BONUS".
I'd forgotten that. Okay, so it's not quite apples to apples, but as you say, the free code has by this point been normalized, so when it is taken away, it is looked at as a detriment by those who take advantage of it. You're taking away value without reducing price.
I never really think of the digital codes as “extra value” because I don't use them, don't sell them, don't give them away. I just read my books like I've always done. I mean, they were going to raise the prices of those books regardless of digital codes. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've always assumed that including the digital codes was simply their marketing strategy to get their readers more comfortable with reading their product digitally, as security for when they inevitably have to cease publication of physical single issues. Plus, for some it would make the price increase an easier pill to swallow.
Well, now that he and I won't have anything to trade, I think for most all of my Marvel reading I will just take the 6 month gap and wait for Marvel Unlimited. I certainly have plenty of other books, especially from Image, to be reading on paper.
This is anecdotal, of course. I am not saying that how I was doing it is common enough to really factor into what this change means for Marvel, or to retailers. But figured I would give a personal anecdote of how I was using these codes, and what it did to my buying habits, to go along with talking about it overall.
That's another good point, @David_D. I don't think Marvel has any idea how this is going to affect sales for them, but the current/old model of including a digital copy of the issue you were buying hasn't generated more revenue for them, so they've decided to tweak the model. There must be several things those codes meant to various buyers. Some used them to trade, like yourself, some kept the floppies and sold their codes, some kept the digital and sold their floppies, or traded, donated, or gave away the floppies, and still others never looked twice at the digital codes and just left the sticker in the book.
While this change in the type of reward using the codes will bring may affect readers differently, the biggest effect that will touch ALL Marvel readers is that the price of their books seems to be creeping further and further up. Marvel has a lot of $4.99 and $5.99 titles now and now, without added value of extra content that readers found to be useful (in whatever way) there will be even more resistance to the higher price points of Marvel Comics. Their recent practice of charging $4.99 for the first issues of their soft reboots and even $9.99 cover price of other so-called 'important' issues is going over like a lead balloon with most readers.
Agreed. Sometimes it feels like they are trying to push me- as a reader who is not into collecting the physical content as much, and doesn't feel the need to read as urgently- more and more towards just being a Marvel Unlimited subscriber and sticking with that. In a way, at least for me, MU subscribing is now what waiting for the trade used to be. (And, ever since I started using MU, or the DCU in the old days, I don't think I have bought a single Marvel trade).
And, at the end of the day- for all Marvel is claiming about trying to help out the retailer, for example by having this new model of featured digital first issues of things you can go get in trade- what they have actually done is push a reader like me to cut out the physical object, and the middle man that goes with that object, and start just paying Marvel directly for their content, by paying that monthly fee for the app. Again, that is anecdotal just to my experience. But these moves have certainly not led to me spending more at my retailers. At least, not on Marvel books.
for all Marvel is claiming about trying to help out the retailer, for example by having this new model of featured digital first issues of things you can go get in trade- what they have actually done is push a reader like me to cut out the physical object, and the middle man that goes with that object, and start just paying Marvel directly for their content, by paying that monthly fee for the app. Again, that is anecdotal just to my experience. But these moves have certainly not led to me spending more at my retailers. At least, not on Marvel books.
I completely agree with that. I don't think this is actually helping the retailers at all. Does Marvel expect us to believe that a typical reader bothered to redeem their new digital code, and downloaded the first issue of a trade will read that free issue and then go buy the physical trade to finish the story?
Most savvy digital readers know that if they just read it digitally, they can purchase the trade for $9.99 via Comixology (retail price), instead of getting in a car, driving to the retailer, and plopping down $19.99 + tax for the trade - and that's assuming your LCS has that particular trade available. Is that really what they think? I'm skeptical that these new digital issues won't already make it simple to buy the full trade digitally for a discount when you finish the first bonus issue. If I were Marvel, that's the way I would arrange it.
I fully believe this is merely going to create a bump in Marvel Unlimited subscribers who have gotten used to reading their books digitally and it will adversely affect their floppy comics sales numbers. I think over the long run, this potentially hurts retailers more than it helps.
for all Marvel is claiming about trying to help out the retailer, for example by having this new model of featured digital first issues of things you can go get in trade- what they have actually done is push a reader like me to cut out the physical object, and the middle man that goes with that object, and start just paying Marvel directly for their content, by paying that monthly fee for the app. Again, that is anecdotal just to my experience. But these moves have certainly not led to me spending more at my retailers. At least, not on Marvel books.
I completely agree with that. I don't think this is actually helping the retailers at all. Does Marvel expect us to believe that a typical reader bothered to redeem their new digital code, and downloaded the first issue of a trade will read that free issue and then go buy the physical trade to finish the story?
Most savvy digital readers know that if they just read it digitally, they can purchase the trade for $9.99 via Comixology (retail price), instead of getting in a car, driving to the retailer, and plopping down $19.99 + tax for the trade - and that's assuming your LCS has that particular trade available. Is that really what they think? I'm skeptical that these new digital issues won't already make it simple to buy the full trade digitally for a discount when you finish the first bonus issue. If I were Marvel, that's the way I would arrange it.
I fully believe this is merely going to create a bump in Marvel Unlimited subscribers who have gotten used to reading their books digitally and it will adversely affect their floppy comics sales numbers. I think over the long run, this potentially hurts retailers more than it helps.
I was just reading about how Amazing Spider-Man #25 is going to be $9.99 for a 40 page Spider-Man story kicking off the new Norman Osborn storyline. Also included (it's a 96 page book) will be a Slott and Giuseppe Camuncoli short story, Hannah Blumenreich writing and drawing her Spider-debut, Cale Atkinson creates a new story about A-May-zing Spider-Aunt, and a Peter David and Mark Bagley launch for the new Scarlet Spider series. Topped off with an (ugly) Alex Ross cover, and Stuart Immonen variant cover, a Venomized Dave Johnson cover, an Action figure variant cover, and several other unannounced variant covers.
But that’s just the start. If retailers order 200% of this $9.99 comic that they did of Amazing Spider-Man #22, then they get a massive discount off the price. With lower discounts if retailers order 150% or 125% of their #22 numbers. Keep in mind that issue #22 had an estimate of North American numbers of around 63,000. So does this mean Marvel expects rather high numbers – topping 100,000 North American orders – and definitely topping the dollar share for the month of March? Of course they do.
Think about that this way though, 63,000 copies of issue #22 shipping to comic shops suggests that a percentage of those definitely sold to readers, so it may be safe to say that around 60,000 copies actually ended up in the hands of people who regularly read the comic, rather than on comic shop shelves and storage facilities. I'm being generous though.
As for a 96 page book, those “short stories” are likely all just teases for other books—meaning readers are basically paying for in house ads, just like in Amazing Spider-Man #1. So how does shipping an extra 40,000 copies of issue #25 (predicted) make an extra 40,000 people buy a comic and/or read it that weren't already reading it? Sure, Alex Ross is a popular artist, but his cover will not increase sales by 40,000+. And with this being issue #25, instead of a new number one, I don't think it's going to pull in a lot of new readers, certainly not 40,000. And I think almost everyone here already knows that "shipping figures" are not "actual sales."
At least buyers will also get bonus digital content of the first issues from Civil War II, Captain Marvel Vol 2: Civil War II, and Wolverine: Old Man Logan. So there's that. I think the sooner comic shops stop participating in these absurd pump-and-dump shenanigans, the better for the industry.
I was just reading about how Amazing Spider-Man #25 is going to be $9.99 for a 40 page Spider-Man story kicking off the new Norman Osborn storyline. Also included (it's a 96 page book) will be a Slott and Giuseppe Camuncoli short story, Hannah Blumenreich writing and drawing her Spider-debut, Cale Atkinson creates a new story about A-May-zing Spider-Aunt, and a Peter David and Mark Bagley launch for the new Scarlet Spider series. Topped off with an (ugly) Alex Ross cover, and Stuart Immonen variant cover, a Venomized Dave Johnson cover, an Action figure variant cover, and several other unannounced variant covers.
But that’s just the start. If retailers order 200% of this $9.99 comic that they did of Amazing Spider-Man #22, then they get a massive discount off the price. With lower discounts if retailers order 150% or 125% of their #22 numbers. Keep in mind that issue #22 had an estimate of North American numbers of around 63,000. So does this mean Marvel expects rather high numbers – topping 100,000 North American orders – and definitely topping the dollar share for the month of March? Of course they do.
Think about that this way though, 63,000 copies of issue #22 shipping to comic shops suggests that a percentage of those definitely sold to readers, so it may be safe to say that around 60,000 copies actually ended up in the hands of people who regularly read the comic, rather than on comic shop shelves and storage facilities. I'm being generous though.
As for a 96 page book, those “short stories” are likely all just teases for other books—meaning readers are basically paying for in house ads, just like in Amazing Spider-Man #1. So how does shipping an extra 40,000 copies of issue #25 (predicted) make an extra 40,000 people buy a comic and/or read it that weren't already reading it? Sure, Alex Ross is a popular artist, but his cover will not increase sales by 40,000+. And with this being issue #25, instead of a new number one, I don't think it's going to pull in a lot of new readers, certainly not 40,000. And I think almost everyone here already knows that "shipping figures" are not "actual sales."
At least buyers will also get bonus digital content of the first issues from Civil War II, Captain Marvel Vol 2: Civil War II, and Wolverine: Old Man Logan. So there's that. I think the sooner comic shops stop participating in these absurd pump-and-dump shenanigans, the better for the industry.
To quote my new favorite clip from Logan, "Holy fuck." If I was buying the book I'd be irritated. Not only am I paying $9.99 for 1 book, the 40 page content has filler.
Hannah Blumenreich does a Spidey fan webcomic. Her story will most likely be a one-off of just a few pages, not a teaser for a series. Likewise, the “A-May-zing Spider-Aunt“ is a series of shorts that show up from time to time, in annuals or double-sized issues. It’s just a fun, silly two-pager kind of thing—the kind of thing that showed up in practically every Golden Age anthology book in between the bigger features. I imagine the Slott/Camuncoli story will be at least a 10-pager, and will probably just be a side story to whatever is going on in this series—might be a “throwaway” story, might be a character development story, might be an integral plot point for the next storyline. The Scarlet Spider story is most likely a teaser for a new Scarlet Spider series, though it will probably be a prequel of sorts, not an excerpt from a possible Scarlet Spider #1.
Whether all of that is filler or not remains to be seen, but it will all be (I’m pretty sure) original material that won't be showing up in any other single issues.
How much does Marvel charge for a 40-page comic these days? $5.99? $6.99? So the question is will this extra 50 pages of material (that's minus the ads) be worth the extra three or four bucks.
How much does Marvel charge for a 40-page comic these days? $5.99? $6.99? So the question is will this extra 50 pages of material (that's minus the ads) be worth the extra three or four bucks.
50 pages of extra material that the reader ostensibly didn't ask for and probably doesn't want. It feels like this is more of a way for Marvel to justify increasing their page count so they can increase the price - the ends justify the means. Otherwise, why not just do this every month? Come out with a 100-Page giant Spider-Man series. Or, better yet, insert these one-off stories in the monthly .99 cent Marvel Previews? Or as a free web comic or digital download in the issue at the regular price?
Even if the Scarlet Spider tale and the others are only published here, I'm a little bit skeptical that this is going to create a lot of goodwill after many fans complained about them shoehorning Inhumans #1 into Amazing Spider-Man #1. Of course, I shouldn't expect that Marvel is trying to do anything for goodwill. They're in the business of making a profit. Just thought I would share the news about their next $10 book for those who are interested.
I was just reading about how Amazing Spider-Man #25 is going to be $9.99 for a 40 page Spider-Man story kicking off the new Norman Osborn storyline. Also included (it's a 96 page book) will be a Slott and Giuseppe Camuncoli short story, Hannah Blumenreich writing and drawing her Spider-debut, Cale Atkinson creates a new story about A-May-zing Spider-Aunt, and a Peter David and Mark Bagley launch for the new Scarlet Spider series. Topped off with an (ugly) Alex Ross cover, and Stuart Immonen variant cover, a Venomized Dave Johnson cover, an Action figure variant cover, and several other unannounced variant covers.
But that’s just the start. If retailers order 200% of this $9.99 comic that they did of Amazing Spider-Man #22, then they get a massive discount off the price. With lower discounts if retailers order 150% or 125% of their #22 numbers. Keep in mind that issue #22 had an estimate of North American numbers of around 63,000. So does this mean Marvel expects rather high numbers – topping 100,000 North American orders – and definitely topping the dollar share for the month of March? Of course they do.
Think about that this way though, 63,000 copies of issue #22 shipping to comic shops suggests that a percentage of those definitely sold to readers, so it may be safe to say that around 60,000 copies actually ended up in the hands of people who regularly read the comic, rather than on comic shop shelves and storage facilities. I'm being generous though.
As for a 96 page book, those “short stories” are likely all just teases for other books—meaning readers are basically paying for in house ads, just like in Amazing Spider-Man #1. So how does shipping an extra 40,000 copies of issue #25 (predicted) make an extra 40,000 people buy a comic and/or read it that weren't already reading it? Sure, Alex Ross is a popular artist, but his cover will not increase sales by 40,000+. And with this being issue #25, instead of a new number one, I don't think it's going to pull in a lot of new readers, certainly not 40,000. And I think almost everyone here already knows that "shipping figures" are not "actual sales."
At least buyers will also get bonus digital content of the first issues from Civil War II, Captain Marvel Vol 2: Civil War II, and Wolverine: Old Man Logan. So there's that. I think the sooner comic shops stop participating in these absurd pump-and-dump shenanigans, the better for the industry.
I'm given to believe that Marvel overships stuff to retailers all the time that they don't order so I think you are being very generous.
This is the cyclical nature of the big 2 though. A year ago DC was on the ropes.
Hey guys. Don't post on here as much as i should anymore but this conversation compelled me.
1) The digital code loss at marvel is a big one for me. I purchase around 30 single issues a week, the way i have time to read all those is by using the digital codes for my marvel books, i get to keep my physical collection but read on train or at work. I also review Deadpool issues and having digital copies greatly assists rereads and image sourcing.
Now i am an international buyer so that means i spend basically double US cover price for my books (or quadruple DCBS price :smiley: ) so that $1 difference is $2 for me. now i know that a digital code isn't $1 but it did add extra value to my purchase that was once there. Now i know marvel is offerring Promotional issues instead. but if you know marvel digital you always had three issues that change each week that are free. so they are replacing it with something they always offered even without a purchase.
I'm going to be dropping a lot of marvel books, not because i want to or can't afford them but more just for time to read and value for my dollars
2) Chris , i love you buddy, but you broke my widdle wade heart. Talking about how marvel dosent let characters breath and progress with great creator runs. You used Deadpool as an example of the negative example. While i give you the fact he has had over saturation in the market (most spin offs being out of continuity ). The main Deadpool title is exactly the thing you keep saying is missing at Marvel. Gerry Duggan has had a treamendous run at marvel on Deadpool he has been on the book as long Aaron has been on Thor and delivering the same quality and tight continuity across the run. Plus he has been more prolific than aarons thor. 70 + issues of the main title not to mention one shot specials, annuals, Uncanny Avengers vol (which both features and ties heavily to Deadpool Continuity) . All this while telling great stories featuring the character that many fan think will be classic stories remembered for years. Joe Kelly is the Deadpool master. but right after him in most hardcore DP fans eyes is Gerry Duggan. Along with Thor this is the title other mainstream books should be looking to to re embrace that great creator run. but no hard feelings buddy i understand the DP shelf is crowded but part of the reason is the main book is gold. Hell over most of the last decade and a half Deadpool has had three writers total for his main 616 story Fabin Nicieza , Daniel Way and Gerry Duggan. while humor is part of his appeal i also think that under the nose of a lot of old school comic fans but being picked up by the new fans this is where the solid creator runs on a character have been happening. this is how DP went from D lister to A lister at marvel in a short space.
So chris my homework to you my outstanding comic historian is TPB Deadpool : the Good the Bad and the Ugly (this is the classic of Duggan's run and establishing of his run post Brian Posehan co writer and is a punch to the gut, its not all laughs here ).... as well as/or instead of, the recent Deadpool Vol 5 issues 20 (this is "a very special issue" where Deadpool spends a night talking with a suicidal girl. shows this book is more than most folks think it is )
I stand corrected sir! I appreciate the passionate case you've made for the current Deadpool title, and I will certainly give it a try at some point down the road. Thanks!
Appreciate the good word-of-mouth for Legion on FX (Starts Feb 8 at 10pm), as well as for Archer on FXX (New Season starts April 5 at 10pm and Nocturnal Missions start at 12am eastern many evenings every week). Check local listings.
Of course, I say this without any bias of any kind.
Comments
While this change in the type of reward using the codes will bring may affect readers differently, the biggest effect that will touch ALL Marvel readers is that the price of their books seems to be creeping further and further up. Marvel has a lot of $4.99 and $5.99 titles now and now, without added value of extra content that readers found to be useful (in whatever way) there will be even more resistance to the higher price points of Marvel Comics. Their recent practice of charging $4.99 for the first issues of their soft reboots and even $9.99 cover price of other so-called 'important' issues is going over like a lead balloon with most readers.
I never really think of the digital codes as “extra value” because I don't use them, don't sell them, don't give them away. I just read my books like I've always done. I mean, they were going to raise the prices of those books regardless of digital codes. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've always assumed that including the digital codes was simply their marketing strategy to get their readers more comfortable with reading their product digitally, as security for when they inevitably have to cease publication of physical single issues. Plus, for some it would make the price increase an easier pill to swallow.
And, at the end of the day- for all Marvel is claiming about trying to help out the retailer, for example by having this new model of featured digital first issues of things you can go get in trade- what they have actually done is push a reader like me to cut out the physical object, and the middle man that goes with that object, and start just paying Marvel directly for their content, by paying that monthly fee for the app. Again, that is anecdotal just to my experience. But these moves have certainly not led to me spending more at my retailers. At least, not on Marvel books.
Most savvy digital readers know that if they just read it digitally, they can purchase the trade for $9.99 via Comixology (retail price), instead of getting in a car, driving to the retailer, and plopping down $19.99 + tax for the trade - and that's assuming your LCS has that particular trade available. Is that really what they think? I'm skeptical that these new digital issues won't already make it simple to buy the full trade digitally for a discount when you finish the first bonus issue. If I were Marvel, that's the way I would arrange it.
I fully believe this is merely going to create a bump in Marvel Unlimited subscribers who have gotten used to reading their books digitally and it will adversely affect their floppy comics sales numbers. I think over the long run, this potentially hurts retailers more than it helps.
But that’s just the start. If retailers order 200% of this $9.99 comic that they did of Amazing Spider-Man #22, then they get a massive discount off the price. With lower discounts if retailers order 150% or 125% of their #22 numbers. Keep in mind that issue #22 had an estimate of North American numbers of around 63,000. So does this mean Marvel expects rather high numbers – topping 100,000 North American orders – and definitely topping the dollar share for the month of March? Of course they do.
Think about that this way though, 63,000 copies of issue #22 shipping to comic shops suggests that a percentage of those definitely sold to readers, so it may be safe to say that around 60,000 copies actually ended up in the hands of people who regularly read the comic, rather than on comic shop shelves and storage facilities. I'm being generous though.
As for a 96 page book, those “short stories” are likely all just teases for other books—meaning readers are basically paying for in house ads, just like in Amazing Spider-Man #1. So how does shipping an extra 40,000 copies of issue #25 (predicted) make an extra 40,000 people buy a comic and/or read it that weren't already reading it? Sure, Alex Ross is a popular artist, but his cover will not increase sales by 40,000+. And with this being issue #25, instead of a new number one, I don't think it's going to pull in a lot of new readers, certainly not 40,000. And I think almost everyone here already knows that "shipping figures" are not "actual sales."
At least buyers will also get bonus digital content of the first issues from Civil War II, Captain Marvel Vol 2: Civil War II, and Wolverine: Old Man Logan. So there's that. I think the sooner comic shops stop participating in these absurd pump-and-dump shenanigans, the better for the industry.
M
Whether all of that is filler or not remains to be seen, but it will all be (I’m pretty sure) original material that won't be showing up in any other single issues.
How much does Marvel charge for a 40-page comic these days? $5.99? $6.99? So the question is will this extra 50 pages of material (that's minus the ads) be worth the extra three or four bucks.
Even if the Scarlet Spider tale and the others are only published here, I'm a little bit skeptical that this is going to create a lot of goodwill after many fans complained about them shoehorning Inhumans #1 into Amazing Spider-Man #1. Of course, I shouldn't expect that Marvel is trying to do anything for goodwill. They're in the business of making a profit. Just thought I would share the news about their next $10 book for those who are interested.
I don't read ASM anymore.
This is the cyclical nature of the big 2 though. A year ago DC was on the ropes.
Of course, I say this without any bias of any kind.