Justice League: Spoiler Discussion - Spoil and Discuss Away!

matchkitJOHN

I am not going to see it till next week so I look forward to the discussion.

Matt

Damn, there are some hardcore DC fans on some sites going ugly on the movie, Whedon, & the studio.

RedRight88

My thoughts on the film (Spoilers).

bralinator

37% on RottenTomatoes with nearly 200 reviews in.

Matt

Nearly the end of Saturday & still this thread is bare. What does that say about the movie?!

nweathington

Matt said:

Nearly the end of Saturday & still this thread is bare. What does that say about the movie?!

That nobody posts here on the weekend. That’s always been the case.

BionicDave

** DEFINITELY SPOILERS! :joy: **

Saw it late last night... and loved it. A perfect film? Nope. But a huge improvement over BvS. There is so much awesomeness in this movie! And man: now this is Superman. Not since Christopher Reeve left the role have I felt like I've seen MY Superman on the silver screen - until now, with "Justice League." So as a fan who did not care for MoS, and who felt like BvS didn't allow Big Blue to shine, and who even felt that wonderful Brandon Routh truly didn't give a unique enough performance in SR... I say thank you, finally, Warner Brothers! (And Henry Cavill lol)

I also loved the other hero characterizations in this movie. Gadot's Wonder Woman, of course; good God, what a blessing she is to the role and to comic book movies. I still love Batfleck too, he is fantastic once again - though wow, you can really see in his face that the actor was struggling with alcoholism here. But his raw look only makes Bruce Wayne look more battle-scarred. As a big fan of Grant Gustin's Barry Allen/Flash, I chafed at the decision to cast Ezra Miller when it was announced, he was just so against type; so I am stunned at how much I like his version here. They decided to use Flash somewhat like the animated Justice League did, and it works like gangbusters in contrast to the other more seasoned heroes of this story. Fisher's Cyborg was a bit too emo for me, tbh; but as his character grows more comfortable in his condition, he totally clicked with me, I greatly look forward to seeing more of him. While I did love AquaMomoa's look/attitude/action stuff, and did feel his presence improved many scenes, I also think he needs more humanistic material written for him. Hopefully James Wan's solo film will give Arthur more range. But this Aquaman is still a big win for the movie and for the future of the character.

Steppenwolf is cool looking and sounding, but he's pretty much played as a videogame boss. It might have bugged me more if we didn't have so many new superheroes to get to know and have fun watching. Yes, Warner Brothers does need to evolve this addiction it has to Act 3 CGI gaming sequence finales. But this one was done well - and it excellently showed off what our heroes can do, and how they might work as a team.

Lots of spectacular set pieces, too. There's an especially breath-taking sequence on Themyscira, as the Amazons put up a last stand against Steppenwolf who's trying to steal a Motherbox. Hippolyta and her warriors are so badass, I seriously can't get enough of them! And there's another scene, a flashback to Steppenwolf's first attempt to conquer Earth; this scene is pure nerdgasm lol. But there's also some beautiful, emotional stuff played against equally beautiful background locales. Loved it all.

I am aware that my positive reaction to "Justice League" is a minority one, or at most, only on one side of very mixed reviews. That's sad. I mean, I get it - this film comes with LOTS of bad mojo baggage. Even though it works hard to prove it's a different animal from MoS, BvS and SSquad, most people simply don't want to put their animosity down. Maybe it's easier for me because I've grown tired of these later phase light-comedy Disney/Marvel films. (I haven't loved a Disney/Marvel movie since "The Winter Soldier.") So while I dug "Justice League's" story as is, it also worked for me because I do appreciate a different formula than Disney's, and one that doesn't feel so family-friendly. These days, I'll take "Logan" and "Justice League" over ten "Thor: Ragnaroks." So I'm truly looking forward to 2018's "Deadpool 2," "The New Mutants," and "The Black Panther." And hopefully Jason Momoa's late 2018 "Aquaman" will reaffirm this new confidence in the WB/DCEU which "Wonder Woman" and now "Justice League" have given me :)

Matt

nweathington said:

Matt said:

Nearly the end of Saturday & still this thread is bare. What does that say about the movie?!

That nobody posts here on the weekend. That’s always been the case.

Joke.

Matt

BionicDave said:

** DEFINITELY SPOILERS! :joy: **

Saw it late last night... and loved it. A perfect film? Nope. But a huge improvement over BvS. There is so much awesomeness in this movie! And man: now this is Superman. Not since Christopher Reeve left the role have I felt like I've seen MY Superman on the silver screen - until now, with "Justice League." So as a fan who did not care for MoS, and who felt like BvS didn't allow Big Blue to shine, and who even felt that wonderful Brandon Routh truly didn't give a unique enough performance in SR... I say thank you, finally, Warner Brothers! (And Henry Cavill lol)

I also loved the other hero characterizations in this movie. Gadot's Wonder Woman, of course; good God, what a blessing she is to the role and to comic book movies. I still love Batfleck too, he is fantastic once again - though wow, you can really see in his face that the actor was struggling with alcoholism here. But his raw look only makes Bruce Wayne look more battle-scarred. As a big fan of Grant Gustin's Barry Allen/Flash, I chafed at the decision to cast Ezra Miller when it was announced, he sooo goes against type; so I am stunned at how much I like his version here. They decided to use Flash somewhat like the animated Justice League did, and it works like gangbusters in contrast to the other more seasoned heroes of this story. Fisher's Cyborg was a bit too emo for me, tbh; but as his character grows more comfortable in his condition, he totally clicked with me, I greatly look forward to seeing more of him. While I did love AquaMomoa's look/attitude/action stuff, and did feel his presence improved many scenes, I also think he needs more humanistic material written for him. Hopefully James Wan's solo film will give Arthur more range. But this Aquaman is still a big win for the movie and for the future of the character.

Steppenwolf is cool looking and sounding, but he's pretty much played as a videogame boss. It might have bugged me more if we didn't have so many new superheroes to get to know and have fun watching. Yes, Warner Brothers does need to evolve this addiction it has to Act 3 CGI gaming sequence finales. But this one was done well - and it excellently showed off what our heroes can do, and how they might work as a team.

Lots of spectacular set pieces, too. There's an especially breath-taking sequence on Themyscira, as the Amazons put up a last stand against Steppenwolf who's trying to steal a Motherbox. Hippolyta and her warriors are so badass, I seriously can't get enough of them! And there's another scene, a flashback to Steppenwolf's first attempt to conquer Earth; this scene is pure nerdgasm lol. But there's also some beautiful, emotional stuff played against equally beautiful background locales. Loved it all.

I am aware that my positive reaction to "Justice League" is a minority one, or at most, only on one side of very mixed reviews. That's sad. I mean, I get it - this film comes with LOTS of bad mojo baggage. Even though it works hard to prove it's a different animal from MoS, BvS and SSquad, most people simply don't want to put their animosity down. Maybe it's easier for me because I've grown tired of these later phase light-comedy Disney/Marvel films. (I haven't loved a Disney/Marvel movie since "The Winter Soldier.") So while I dug "Justice League's" story as is, it also worked for me because I do appreciate a different formula than Disney's, and one that doesn't feel so family-friendly. These days, I'll take "Logan" and "Justice League" over ten "Thor: Ragnaroks." So I'm truly looking forward to 2018's "Deadpool 2," "The New Mutants," and "The Black Panther." And hopefully Jason Momoa's late 2018 "Aquaman" will reaffirm this new confidence in the WB/DCEU which "Wonder Woman" and now "Justice League" have given me :)

The leaked clips I’ve come across don’t look nearly as bad as what I’ve heard the critics are saying. Which is what I figured; they rarely are “as bad” or “as good” as advertised.

I can definitely see why the Snyder disciples are pissed.

I always hate when the MCU gets labeled “comedies” because they have quips & banter. Action/Adventure movies have that all the time.

bralinator

Matt said:

Nearly the end of Saturday & still this thread is bare. What does that say about the movie?!

It says that I’ve been burned by DC enough that, with the exception of Wonder Woman, DC no longer gets my hard-earned theater money for their films. This is definitely a home viewing for me - and no, I don’t mind being “spoiled”.

BionicDave

Matt said:

I always hate when the MCU gets labeled “comedies” because they have quips & banter. Action/Adventure movies have that all the time.

Did you see the comedy "Thor:Ragnarok?" Or "Guardians of the Galaxy 2," which starts with dancing baby Groot and continues its cozy laugh-fest for almost 2 and a half hours. I get it that all superhero films need some degree of quips and banter, even bleak "Logan" has that. But there's stray quips and banter.. and then there's a studio deciding its chief goal is to make little kids laugh.

Matt

BionicDave said:

Matt said:

I always hate when the MCU gets labeled “comedies” because they have quips & banter. Action/Adventure movies have that all the time.

Did you see the comedy "Thor:Ragnarok?" Or "Guardians of the Galaxy 2," which starts with dancing baby Groot and continues its cozy laugh-fest for almost 2 and a half hours.

Yes, but I wouldn’t label them “comedies;” especially Ragnarok. I wouldn’t label Big Trouble in Little China, & that’s exactly what Ragnarok felt like.

spid

I saw the movie tonight, and for me this is the best DC Universe film. I think it is the most complete movie from start to finish. Outside if Superman who is not in the film enough I thought the rest of the League was spot on.

bralinator

Wow. Justice League just had a horrific opening of just $96 million.

http://deadline.com/2017/11/justice-league-opening-weekend-box-office-lower-thor-ragnarok-wonder-the-star-1202211094/

That’s the lowest opening of any DC Films movie yet. Man of Steel made $116 million, Batman v Superman made $166 million, Suicide Squad made $133 million, and Wonder Woman made $103 million on their first weekend.

For all its problems, Batman v Superman eventually earned a respectable worldwide gross of $873 million. Do we expect Justice League to meet or surpass that total? Internationally, the film brought in an estimated $185.5 million from 65 markets for a $281.5 million worldwide debut. This makes it one of the top twenty-five worldwide openings all-time and the twentieth ranked international opening over, besting the $185.1 million overseas opening from The Avengers, although the Marvel team-up movie debuted in only 39 markets during its opening weekend as international and worldwide opening comparisons are rarely apples-to-apples.

Compared to its current competition, Marvel’s Thor: Ragnarok opened to nearly $123 million just two weeks ago, and Marvel’s first team movie, The Avengers, made a huge $207 million in its opening weekend. And as for worldwide totals, Thor: Ragnarok has grossed $738,082,170 worldwide in only 17 days of release. and The Avengers, earned $1,518,812,988 globally.

I'm not sure what to make of it, but my guess is that the folks who went, but didn’t like Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice stayed away from this sequel. So, similar to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows, a retooled, lighter, more kid-friendly “this is what the last film should have been” sequel was similarly rejected because audiences sampled the last one out of curiosity and didn’t like it. If you consider Justice League to be the third chapter in Zack Snyder’s DC Films trilogy following Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice, then Justice League played like the third Divergent movie. Fans and general audiences decided not to be fooled for the third time.

Wonder Woman can only do so much for JL. The reviews were mixed-negative, even if that dumb Rotten Tomatoes gambit created a false sense of conspiracy and forthcoming critical annihilation (which currently stands at 39%). Maybe switching out Snyder for Whedon pissed off the Zack-bro loyalists and added tens-of-millions of dollars to the budget for little additional value. Not sure. But the Thanksgiving holiday may give it some legs this week. We'll see.

BionicDave

@bralinator That's a great, thorough analysis. Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall during today's JL meeting in the Warner Brothers feature film division? :joy: Jeez.

I hope "Justice League" will have legs. Like I rambled on above, I think this film's getting a bad rap. I'm seeing it again this week with a friend, so maybe our combined ticket sale of $24 will push JL past "Catwoman's" opening month...

bralinator

For Warner Bros and DC's sakes, I hope you're right.

kiwijase

I liked it very much. I thought it was a nice culmination of what had come before. The story was a bit rote, but gave the characters room to soar. I didn't have a problem with Steppenwolf, thought he was rather suave. Loved the return of Supes (Uncanny moustache notwithstanding). Go see it! Make it a hit so we can see more adventures with these snazzy super friends. To do less would be an injustice.

CageNarleigh

I'm PRETTY sure the Green Lantern shown in the movie was Yalan Gur...

mphil

I think we already know what is going to happen, we saw what happened with Man of Steel. Warner is going to blame the characters and do more Batman and Wonder Woman movies.

Instead of noticing that, you know, all of Zach Snyder's films are critical bombs and he is a terrible film maker.

We really got lucky that Patty Jenkins got hired for WW. So now we'll at least get more movies with her. Otherwise it would have been back to just-Batman like before.

If you're a JL fan or a fan of any other DC characters (Superman included), be prepared for some years of disappointment to come.

luke52

Just got out the cinema. I liked it. It’s not as good as Wonder Woman, but still enjoyed from start to finish.

Wonder Woman stole the show... again. I personally think that no one since RDJ has really encapsulated a superhero as perfectly.

Aquaman and Flash were really good. Agree about Cyborg from above, a little too emo and wasn’t a fan of the look. The new he look he got at the end was much more what i wanted.

Only one thing really bugged me about the movie, and hoping someone can cast some light, Superman. Pretty much every scene he was in looked like his mouth was CGI’d. Like they’re changed all his dialogue and had to CGI his mouth to get it in line. Wondering if Whedon had anything to do with this???

I’d give it a solid 7/10.

Matt

luke52 said:

Just got out the cinema. I liked it. It’s not as good as Wonder Woman, but still enjoyed from start to finish.

Wonder Woman stole the show... again. I personally think that no one since RDJ has really encapsulated a superhero as perfectly.

Aquaman and Flash were really good. Agree about Cyborg from above, a little too emo and wasn’t a fan of the look. The new he look he got at the end was much more what i wanted.

Only one thing really bugged me about the movie, and hoping someone can cast some light, Superman. Pretty much every scene he was in looked like his mouth was CGI’d. Like they’re changed all his dialogue and had to CGI his mouth to get it in line. Wondering if Whedon had anything to do with this???

I’d give it a solid 7/10.

From what I’ve been reading, all but 2 scenes with Cavill were reshot. During the reshoots, he had the mustache, so they cgi-ed his lip.

luke52

Matt said:

luke52 said:

Just got out the cinema. I liked it. It’s not as good as Wonder Woman, but still enjoyed from start to finish.

Wonder Woman stole the show... again. I personally think that no one since RDJ has really encapsulated a superhero as perfectly.

Aquaman and Flash were really good. Agree about Cyborg from above, a little too emo and wasn’t a fan of the look. The new he look he got at the end was much more what i wanted.

Only one thing really bugged me about the movie, and hoping someone can cast some light, Superman. Pretty much every scene he was in looked like his mouth was CGI’d. Like they’re changed all his dialogue and had to CGI his mouth to get it in line. Wondering if Whedon had anything to do with this???

I’d give it a solid 7/10.

From what I’ve been reading, all but 2 scenes with Cavill were reshot. During the reshoots, he had the mustache, do they cgi-ed his lip.

That would explain it! Thanks @Matt

BionicDave

Yeah, Cavill was shooting the new "Mission: Impossible" sequel when Warners requested that he come back to "Justice League" for the new Whedon reshoots. Paramount said fuck that, we had him grow a thick mustache for his M:I role and we are not waiting around for him to grow it back / or wear a phony one. Warners said fine, then we'll pay to CGI it, but his contract with us says we're still entitled to call him back for reshoots. So Cavill was plopped on a private jet back to "Justice League"-ville... and the rest is history. LOL

Though I only noticed his face looked weird in that one opening "phone video" interview clip (an obvious Whedon reshoot). He actually looked fine to me for the rest of the film?

luke52

BionicDave said:

Yeah, Cavill was shooting the new "Mission: Impossible" sequel when Warners requested that he come back to "Justice League" for the new Whedon reshoots. Paramount said fuck that, we had him grow a thick mustache for his M:I role and we are not waiting around him for grow it back / or wear a phony one. Warners said fine, then we'll pay to CGI it, but his contract with us says we're still entitled to call him back for reshoots.

Though I only noticed his face looked weird in that one opening "phone video" clip (an obvious Whedon reshoot). Looked fine to me for the rest of the film?

That first phone clip was by far the worst CGI job, guess after that it was in my head and just couldn’t stop noticing it.

bralinator

Are Atlanteans unable to talk under water in this?
Do we know what Batman's nightmare in Batman V Superman was about now?
Was there ever any explanation why The Flash went back in time in Batman V Superman to warn Batman?

BionicDave

bralinator said:

Are Atlanteans unable to talk under water in this?
Do we know what Batman's nightmare in Batman V Superman was about now?
Was there ever any explanation why The Flash went back in time in Batman V Superman to warn Batman?

a. Apparently so (thank God). Mera creates an undersea bubble in which she and Arthur can speak during their battle with Steppenwolf. I don't know if that's how James Wan will have Atlanteans communicate in "Aquaman" or if he'll figure something else out, like Arthur learning telepathy or whatever.

b. We always knew it was not so much a random nightmare but a "premonition" about Darkseid's coming conquest of Earth. However...

c. ...there is nothing in "Justice League" which references Barry going back in time to appear in BvS. Maybe it was a Barry from an alternate timeline in which Steppenwolf was not defeated in "Justice League," thus Earth had fallen to Apokolips?

bralinator

ThAt’s nearly worthy of a “no prize”, @BionicDave :)

Matt

Is this an actual moment in the movie?

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/amp/justice_league/spoilers-did-joss-whedon-take-a-swipe-at-justice-league-in-the-movies-opening-credits-a155707

luke52

Matt said:

Is this an actual moment in the movie?

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/amp/justice_league/spoilers-did-joss-whedon-take-a-swipe-at-justice-league-in-the-movies-opening-credits-a155707

Yup, that’s actually in the movie.

luckymustard

luke52 said:

Matt said:

Is this an actual moment in the movie?

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/amp/justice_league/spoilers-did-joss-whedon-take-a-swipe-at-justice-league-in-the-movies-opening-credits-a155707

Yup, that’s actually in the movie.

And as the article says at the very end... "coincidence".

BTW, I'm seeing it a third time this coming Tuesday evening.

Matt

Does anyone else feel this is a little off? I understand, removing IH from Phase 1 basically means Avengers & JL are the 5th movies for each shared universe. It just doesn’t feel like an appropriate comparison.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/11/24/dcs-road-to-justice-league-was-no-more-rushed-than-marvels-road-to-avengers/amp/


Keep in mind; I still haven’t seen Suicide Squad or JL, so perhaps those who have will look at it the same way the writer did.