Episode 1231 Talkback: Comic Talk
Pants
Posts: 567
'You can't get off topic if there is no topic to begin with.' We talk about the new Avengers TV show comic from Boom and the second wave of DC's new 52, but there's also a nice story about Jamie on a track. (1:01:26)
Listen here.
Listen here.
Comments
I love the Comic Talk episodes. Thanks guys :x
I'm trying to think of the last time I heard a filmmaker or author staging a big press announcement to say that a film or book will include a homosexual character. I think this says a lot about comics today and what people (including the publishers, apparently) think of them: kids' stuff, plain and simple.
1. That isn't quite the same thing. Introducing a new gay character is a different thing than turning a pre-existing character gay. If the next James Bond movie featured a gay James Bond you can bet it would be getting a lot more press than this DC announcement. There were no press releases regarding the creation of new characters in the Young Avengers who were gay that I know of.
2. Quick. Name me one big budget blockbuster that featured a gay male character that was not comic relief. If you can name one I'm surprised. In that respect, the comic industry is well ahead of its equivalent in the film world.
Now, for Didio/DC to pull this stunt:
A, someone beat you to it.
B, have some self-respect, man. Shameless pandering to any social or political group is completely demeaning.
C, enjoy the 15 minutes of fame this will buy you, for tomorrow, comics will be forgotten again in the eyes of those you are trying to get the attention of.
D, I am not surprised.
Now, if this were an "organic" plot thread in a character's development, I'm on board. But it's not. Those don't tend to get announced at a comic con, teaser-style, with the sole purpose of setting forums ablaze.
Glad to hear you are well, brother. I, too, am diabetic, and can understand the problems of dealing with that ON TOP of your other issues. I was truly happy for you when you got to travel to England, and have been rooting for you all along. Hang in there, and stay well.
I share your concern about whether or not such developments are "organic" or not. And it isn't a racial/sexual thing: I felt the same way about character-switches back in the '80s and '90s, when it was straight white male characters being replaced by other straight white male characters. Usually these identity shifts seem pretty gimmicky and forced to me, an excuse for media hype. Then again, I like how DC has handled the Kate Kane Batwoman, so they do have a pretty good track record imo.
Really, I think the only thing to complain about regarding things like this is how nauseating the media coverage can be (I mean both pro and con coverage). The actual comics are what matter. The new Ultimate Spider-Man, which got tons of coverage for being a minority character? GREAT comic. GREAT character. Couldn't stand the initial media coverage, though, with Marvel all but insisting this was the most important pop culture event of all time and that anyone who didn't enthusiastically support the comic was probably a racist.
So I just take a wait-and-see approach to all this. I'm usually skeptical but cautiously optimistic about every new development in mainstream comics, though.
And for another, I'm not sure I really can agree with you. It's a different podcast, and overall there were definitely things I liked better about the way it used to be. But from the beginning, there were always episodes that just didn't do it for me. The difference though is that now those episodes are still entertaining, just not quite for me. Back in the day, they used to do more creator interviews, but the problem was that a good chunk of the interviews were either boring people being interviewed and sometimes it was as clear that the geeks were as bored as me. I used to listen to the show at work and some episodes I had to skip because it was getting so hard to stay alert and concentrate on my work.
On the other hand, when the show was good, it was great. So I would say that the old CGS had more highs and lows. The highs were a bit higher than they are now (although really not by all that much), but the lows were much lower. Unfortunately, nostalgia always causes us to compare the current lows with the old highs.
Come on! CGS still rocks!
I need my weekly dose of overexcited Pants, weary Mike, metaphysical Murd, sensitive Shane, smug Matt and of course the battle-wise Jamie. Sometimes we even get good old grumpy Bry.
:x 4-ever
M
M
As for why you do this with an existing character instead of a new one, well, you create a new gay character, then that's what they are: The New Gay Character. The sexuality becomes the character's defining trait. Remember all that puerile "lipstick lesbian" stuff in the press when Batwoman was introduced? Luckily Kate Kane had some awesome writers in her corner to help define her character beyond that, but for a good long time, any media attention she got was basically all about potential hot girl-on-girl bat action. You take a pre-existing character, and a lot of that stigma goes away. Instead of Gay Superhero, you get Superhero who Happens to be Gay.
(And nevermind the fact that for all intents and purposes these are ALL new characters in DC right now, anyway!)
As for who it will be, I know there are a lot of Tim/Connor shippers out there who are begging for it to be Tim Drake. I've also seen a few people speculate about Alan Scott. I say make a big damn statement and have it be Superman. It would guarantee front page coverage, it would be a strong statement about just how mainstream and normal they think this thing should be, and it would certainly justify their stance about him not being with Lois this go-round! It'd never happen, but hey, go big or go home, right?
Keep in mind though that I'm not advocating Batman either. The problem with both of them is kinda summed up in your argument for them. It becomes a strong statement. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily, but in this context, the character disappears and they become a statement instead. It would be done for shock value. Which of course is what it already feels like, but this would make it even moreso.
Oh, and it's knell not nell.
A death Nell was what did for Charles II