Seriously, IMO I hope they make a sat morn cartoon and watchmen cereal and beeny babies and a million more Watchmen comics and movies. I am so burnt out on the Watchmen / Moore worshiping. This Comic Book Poison guy needs to get a life. Alan Moore is not a God! Watchmen is not some sacred holy text to be worshiped and protected. DC has not committed some unholy unforgivable sin against God and Nature. There are real evils and real injustices in the world... this is not one of them! You dont like it dont want it? dont buy it! Why is the comic book biz from the publishers to the retailers held to such a high moral and ethical standard accross the board than any other business where worse offenses are widely expected and accepted? I dont get it.
Just finished Before Watchmen: Silk Spectre #1 a while back and was quite impressed with it. While not to the very high standard of last week's Minutemen I feel it more than justifies its place as part of this initiative.
Silk Spectre is very much a teen empowerment comic. The story of Laurie and her mom at that early stage of their relationship was handled very well, showing the brashness and impulsiveness of Laurie and the regret and conflict that fuelled her mother in the original Watchmen. There's a feel of the old romance comics from the issue which is such a rare thing these days that it really does give the mini it's own identity.
The plotting on this wsn't as tight as Cooke's work on last weeks issue but it was still solid work from him. Amanda Connor's art however was amazing. It's easily the most polished work I've seen from her yet and worth buying the issue for alone.
Overall, I'd say that this issue has me hooked for the remainder of this mini. I think 4 issues is probably the correct length for the story Cooke and Connor seem to be telling. Two issues in and I think I can honestly say that DC seem to have done the concept justice.
Finshed the Before Watchmen: The Comedian #1 and we finally we have the first disappointing Before Watchmen issue.
JG Jones' artwork certainly isn't at his best this issue. His lines are poor and his storytelling doing only the bare minimum. There's absolutely none of the inventiveness of Cooke and Connor in previous issues and he really suffers in comparison.
Azzerello is one of my favourite writers and I though his double-talk style of writing would be a good fit with the character of the Comedian. It just doesn't ring true for me however. He writes him without the edge we've come to know he had in the original and he just seems dull. When the flash of aggression comes late in the issue it doesn't fit with the character as Azzerello has presented him so far. He also seems to be setting up some historical figures as the motivation for him becoming a hard-ass but once again it all just seems off.
This whole issue just didn't seem to get the character and the tone right at all. It's not a terrible comic at all, but it's sadly a hugely forgettable one.
Loved. Loved. LOVED! Silk Spectre #1. Connor & Cooke really made me care about both mother & daughter.
Read the preview pages on Comedian #! online and was unimpressed. The scene with Jackie K. putting a hit on Marilyn Monroe was ham-fisted, cliched and ridiculous*. I wasn't planning on getting this book. Now I certainly won't.
*You want something creepy involving Jackie K., listen to the tapes of Lyndon Johnson skeezing on her right after Jack's funeral. Then take a long shower.
The art style in silk spectre really threw me off initially because it, well clarly wasn't Dave gibbons but reading #1 I found it very enjoyable it just didn't feel like Watchmen. I would have enjoyed this just as much if it was an entirely new superhero character. BUT if it didn't have the Watchmen banner on it...it probably wouldn't have made it into my hands. Apparently, I am a slave to the eternal consumption engine.
It's funny... I've read a lot from Moore and Gibbons on Watchmen, but never came across this interview... actually a panel appearance with Neal Gaiman, during Watchmen's release.
FROM THE AUDIENCE: Do you actually own Watchmen?
MOORE: My understanding is that when Watchmen is finished and DC have not used the characters for a year, they’re ours.
GIBBONS: They pay us a substantial amount of money. ..
MOORE: … to retain the rights. So basically they’re not ours, but if DC is working with the characters in our interests then they might as well be. On the other hand, if the characters have outlived their natural life span and DC doesn’t want to do anything with them, then after a year we’ve got them and we can do what we want with them, which I’m perfectly happy with.
GIBBONS: What would be horrendous, and DC could legally do it, would be to have Rorschach crossing over with Batman or something like that, but I’ve got enough faith in them that I don’t think that they’d do that. I think because of the unique team they couldn’t get anybody else to take it over to do Watchmen II or anything else like that, and we’ve certainly got no plans to do Watchmen II.
It's interesting that Moore says "My understanding is that when Watchmen is finished and DC have not used the characters for a year, they’re ours." Not published for a year... USED THE CHARACTERS for a year.
It sounds as if his understanding at the time was that DC was going to use them beyond the scope of Watchmen, and he was hoping they would not use them badly.
@Tonebone: The intention of this thread is to try to have a kind of sanctuary to talk about the books without stirring up the debate over their validity yet again.
The first post has links to a couple threads where the fur can fly freely.
@Tonebone: The intention of this thread is to try to have a kind of sanctuary to talk about the books without stirring up the debate over their validity yet again.
The first post has links to a couple threads where the fur can fly freely.
Yeah.. I missed that... and wasn't trying to start a fight or anything... just never came across this particular quote before.
Just read Minutemen #1 and thought it was great! I think the only thing that didnt work for me was the Comedian page. Didnt feel right or natural at all. I loved the insight into the other side characters like Moth.
Just read Minutemen #1 and thought it was great! I think the only thing that didnt work for me was the Comedian page. Didnt feel right or natural at all. I loved the insight into the other side characters like Moth.
Made complete sense to me.
Eddie Blake was a sociopath who figured out that he could get away with whatever he wanted in the guise of society's protector.
Minutemen is probably the only book that will have the same intelligence and craft in the sequential art. I feel that the other books are going to be storytelling on art crutches. They may have a bevy of excellent artists but they are not the highest quality sequential craftsmen.
Just read Minutemen #1 and thought it was great! I think the only thing that didnt work for me was the Comedian page. Didnt feel right or natural at all. I loved the insight into the other side characters like Moth.
Made complete sense to me.
Eddie Blake was a sociopath who figured out that he could get away with whatever he wanted in the guise of society's protector.
Completely agree with @WetRats. Cooke got to the spirit of The Comedian with such as small amount of space in Minutemen, but I fell Azzerello dropped the ball with an entire issue. I honestly can't say I'm hopeful for JMS from his record and I really think that the first two minis are the ones that will stand the test of time.
I did not like the way Eddie was portrayed, he did not resemble the man in Watchmen. What was the point of his man crush on Jack and Bobby. I much prefer the interaction he had with Jack from the movie then him crushing on him during a game of touch football. To me it makes more sense that the man who tried to rape his teammate would kill the president and not hang out with him.
I am not buying the death of JFK is what changes him or at least the beginning of his change. Which is what the story seems to be implying. He was a vicious psyco before and after the death not because of it.
I've only read two of the books so far. Cooke made a solid artistic story comparable to gibbons'. Connor did serviceable art. It was not done in the same tone, thoughtfulness or quality of gibbons.
I did not like the way Eddie was portrayed, he did not resemble the man in Watchmen. What was the point of his man crush on Jack and Bobby. I much prefer the interaction he had with Jack from the movie then him crushing on him during a game of touch football. To me it makes more sense that the man who tried to rape his teammate would kill the president and not hang out with him.
I am not buying the death of JFK is what changes him or at least the beginning of his change. Which is what the story seems to be implying. He was a vicious psyco before and after the death not because of it.
I saw that relationship totally different from what I think you're saying here. I thought this was more of an entitled group of guys that had a lot of power that could get away with a lot of bad behavior when they felt like it. The Kennedys with the adultery/Chappaquiddick/rape and Eddie with everything that he's done. It's natural for people of similar stature to be drawn to each other, especially if they have complementary skill sets/values and aren't competing with each other.
I don't see them as the group of idealists that you commonly saw presented in the media in the past, and which I think is what you're saying when you suggested that this is what would turn Eddie bad. I don't think that this is a story about what put him on the wrong track. He was already flawed. I'm thinking that this is more a Kennedy assassination conspiracy story, and that the next step in this story is going to be about why J. Edgar Hoover wanted to keep the Comedian away from Dallas.
I actually quite enjoyed this issue. That makes one of us, so far.
Just read Minutemen #1 and thought it was great! I think the only thing that didnt work for me was the Comedian page. Didnt feel right or natural at all. I loved the insight into the other side characters like Moth.
Made complete sense to me.
Eddie Blake was a sociopath who figured out that he could get away with whatever he wanted in the guise of society's protector.
Completely agree with @WetRats. Cooke got to the spirit of The Comedian with such as small amount of space in Minutemen, but I fell Azzerello dropped the ball with an entire issue. I honestly can't say I'm hopeful for JMS from his record and I really think that the first two minis are the ones that will stand the test of time.
I dunno, it felt gratuitous and over the top to me personally when most everything else felt fluid. The only other thing that felt mediocre was the opening bit about about how "even the ugly parts of your past eventually start to look bright" (or however it went)... It seemed he forced.
I havnt had the chance to read the Comedian yet and its the only other one I have for now.
I really enjoyed The Comedian #1. The artwork was fantastic and I loved seeing the Kennedy's just chilling out playing football.I feel bad that Jackie Onassis got such a bad rep though, lol. It's a shame that in the movie of The Watchmen they added the montage of The Comedian taking the shot from the grassy knoll as it's redundant now.
I'm not in the super-extreme anti-Before Watchmen camp, but I simply wasn't going to read any of these because I was kind of apathetic about the whole thing. My feelings were along the lines of "These don't need to exist and I have no interest in reading them, whatever the talent involved."
But last weekend I traded in a lot of my unwanted comics to my LCS for a generous amount of store credit. I had so much of it that I hardly knew what to do with it, so I picked up Silk Spectre #1 out of curiosity (and because I like the way Amanda Conner draws pretty girls).
It was a fairly good comic. The art was DEFINITELY VERY high quality and the story did leave me KIND OF wanting more in some sense (as described below).
On another level, though, as expected, I just didn't really... care... very much. I definitely felt (and still feel) that Alan Moore already gave me all I need to know about these characters. So the all current mini-series still seem totally extraneous and a bit dubious to me.
Like I said, though, I'm still left wanting the next issue of Silk Spectre, a bit out of curiosity. It's not that I'm captivated by the characters or the story, but in some sense I just think the little world is pleasant enough to stick around in. Basically, when faced with the question of "Would you like seeing Amanda Conner draw a pretty girl in San Francisco in the '60s?", I have to say "Yeah, that sounds like fun."
$4 still seems like an awful lot for that. And even though I got the first issue "for free", the idea of spending $12 on the remaining three does not appeal to me.
So maybe in a month or so, if I get more store credit, then I'll buy issue 2. On some level, this has to be a victory for DC, even though I'm technically not spending any money.
The only negative was Darwyn Cooke's use of interspersed, broken up lines of songs and television shows. VERY ANNOYING. It scarcely ever contributed anything to the actual story; and what parallels there were between "real world" scenes and the lines from songs/tv were quite obvious and uninteresting. I sure hope Cooke doesn't keep doing this.
I haven't managed to read any of the other issues since Minutemen. More just because I've been busy, rather than a return of my Watchmen apathy. looking forward to digging into Silk Spectre... uh... so to speak...
Went ahead and got Nite Owl and Silk Spectre last night. Really liked Note Owl but the bit about his abusive dad was cliche and unec. I also think they rushed through too much too quickly, such as meeting and teaming up with Rorchach and their hooking up with the Crimebusters. To me THAT couldve easily been the basis of the series alone.
Not sure what to think of Silk Spectre but I didnt love it. Some of it felt gratuitous and the day dreaming sequences didnt work for me. Nothing really connected with me. I dont know if Ill get the rest of this one.
Comments
Nite Owl and the getaway car.
Silhouette in the alley.
All beautifully-choreographed and each very different.
Silk Spectre is very much a teen empowerment comic. The story of Laurie and her mom at that early stage of their relationship was handled very well, showing the brashness and impulsiveness of Laurie and the regret and conflict that fuelled her mother in the original Watchmen. There's a feel of the old romance comics from the issue which is such a rare thing these days that it really does give the mini it's own identity.
The plotting on this wsn't as tight as Cooke's work on last weeks issue but it was still solid work from him. Amanda Connor's art however was amazing. It's easily the most polished work I've seen from her yet and worth buying the issue for alone.
Overall, I'd say that this issue has me hooked for the remainder of this mini. I think 4 issues is probably the correct length for the story Cooke and Connor seem to be telling. Two issues in and I think I can honestly say that DC seem to have done the concept justice.
JG Jones' artwork certainly isn't at his best this issue. His lines are poor and his storytelling doing only the bare minimum. There's absolutely none of the inventiveness of Cooke and Connor in previous issues and he really suffers in comparison.
Azzerello is one of my favourite writers and I though his double-talk style of writing would be a good fit with the character of the Comedian. It just doesn't ring true for me however. He writes him without the edge we've come to know he had in the original and he just seems dull. When the flash of aggression comes late in the issue it doesn't fit with the character as Azzerello has presented him so far. He also seems to be setting up some historical figures as the motivation for him becoming a hard-ass but once again it all just seems off.
This whole issue just didn't seem to get the character and the tone right at all. It's not a terrible comic at all, but it's sadly a hugely forgettable one.
Read the preview pages on Comedian #! online and was unimpressed. The scene with Jackie K. putting a hit on Marilyn Monroe was ham-fisted, cliched and ridiculous*. I wasn't planning on getting this book. Now I certainly won't.
*You want something creepy involving Jackie K., listen to the tapes of Lyndon Johnson skeezing on her right after Jack's funeral. Then take a long shower.
Was kinda meh about the whole thing except minutemen.
Still felling meh.
Feels like many talented people trying to do watchmen.
It sounds as if his understanding at the time was that DC was going to use them beyond the scope of Watchmen, and he was hoping they would not use them badly.
Here is the panel transcript in its entirety.
http://www.tcj.com/a-portal-to-another-dimension-alan-moore-dave-gibbons-and-neil-gaiman/
The first post has links to a couple threads where the fur can fly freely.
Sorry!
Eddie Blake was a sociopath who figured out that he could get away with whatever he wanted in the guise of society's protector.
They may have a bevy of excellent artists but they are not the highest quality sequential craftsmen.
I did not like the way Eddie was portrayed, he did not resemble the man in Watchmen. What was the point of his man crush on Jack and Bobby. I much prefer the interaction he had with Jack from the movie then him crushing on him during a game of touch football. To me it makes more sense that the man who tried to rape his teammate would kill the president and not hang out with him.
I am not buying the death of JFK is what changes him or at least the beginning of his change. Which is what the story seems to be implying. He was a vicious psyco before and after the death not because of it.
Cooke made a solid artistic story comparable to gibbons'.
Connor did serviceable art. It was not done in the same tone, thoughtfulness or quality of gibbons.
I don't see them as the group of idealists that you commonly saw presented in the media in the past, and which I think is what you're saying when you suggested that this is what would turn Eddie bad. I don't think that this is a story about what put him on the wrong track. He was already flawed. I'm thinking that this is more a Kennedy assassination conspiracy story, and that the next step in this story is going to be about why J. Edgar Hoover wanted to keep the Comedian away from Dallas.
I actually quite enjoyed this issue. That makes one of us, so far.
I havnt had the chance to read the Comedian yet and its the only other one I have for now.
http://www.rpsteeves.com/2012/06/wrapped-up-like-comic-review-before.html
http://www.rpsteeves.com/2012/06/wrapped-up-like-comic-review-before_26.html
I'm not in the super-extreme anti-Before Watchmen camp, but I simply wasn't going to read any of these because I was kind of apathetic about the whole thing. My feelings were along the lines of "These don't need to exist and I have no interest in reading them, whatever the talent involved."
But last weekend I traded in a lot of my unwanted comics to my LCS for a generous amount of store credit. I had so much of it that I hardly knew what to do with it, so I picked up Silk Spectre #1 out of curiosity (and because I like the way Amanda Conner draws pretty girls).
It was a fairly good comic. The art was DEFINITELY VERY high quality and the story did leave me KIND OF wanting more in some sense (as described below).
On another level, though, as expected, I just didn't really... care... very much. I definitely felt (and still feel) that Alan Moore already gave me all I need to know about these characters. So the all current mini-series still seem totally extraneous and a bit dubious to me.
Like I said, though, I'm still left wanting the next issue of Silk Spectre, a bit out of curiosity. It's not that I'm captivated by the characters or the story, but in some sense I just think the little world is pleasant enough to stick around in. Basically, when faced with the question of "Would you like seeing Amanda Conner draw a pretty girl in San Francisco in the '60s?", I have to say "Yeah, that sounds like fun."
$4 still seems like an awful lot for that. And even though I got the first issue "for free", the idea of spending $12 on the remaining three does not appeal to me.
So maybe in a month or so, if I get more store credit, then I'll buy issue 2. On some level, this has to be a victory for DC, even though I'm technically not spending any money.
The only negative was Darwyn Cooke's use of interspersed, broken up lines of songs and television shows. VERY ANNOYING. It scarcely ever contributed anything to the actual story; and what parallels there were between "real world" scenes and the lines from songs/tv were quite obvious and uninteresting. I sure hope Cooke doesn't keep doing this.
But, again, the artwork was amazing.
Not sure what to think of Silk Spectre but I didnt love it. Some of it felt gratuitous and the day dreaming sequences didnt work for me. Nothing really connected with me. I dont know if Ill get the rest of this one.