I got talking to Shawn Pryor about GI Joe at Super Show a few years ago and our mutual love for some of the admittedly lamer Joes (Hardball rules!), and he told me an awesome book about the toys that I got for my birthday later that year, and if you're a fan you should check it out, too. It's called The Ultimate Guide to G.I. Joe 1982-1994 (2nd edition, I think), and though it is ostensibly a price guide, that makes up a very small portion of the book; it's mostly pictures of EVERY toy manufactured in the Real American Hero line (even the super obscure store exclusives like the Sears Crimson Guard vehicles and stuff) along with some background info on pretty much everything. Track it down, it's a fantastic read.
Fantastic episode, though I felt like you really only grazed the surface of this topic, but that could certainly just be me. G.I. Joe was the book that got me into comics, and one of the longest runs I have in my collection (Peter David's Incredible Hulk may be the only sustained run of books I have that is longer). Some more thoughts, bullet point style:
- The first comic I remember buying was issue 23 of G.I. Joe, "Cobra Commander Captured," I'd been reading my cousin's copies for a few months at the time, but finally decided to dive in with this issue, and I didn't look back for over 120 issues (counting the Yearbooks, over 150 if you count Special Missions). This book, along with 26-27, the Secret Origin of Snake-Eyes, were read and re-read many times over, and it shows on the cover.
- I stuck with the book until 141, I believe. It was around the time they brought the Transformers into the book, and I finally tapped out. My interest had been waning for some time, at that point, and this felt like a good jumping off point. But up until then, I bought G.I. Joe religiously.
- I did manage to snag a copy of the final issue of the Marvel run. Then, years later, during a graphic novel book club discussion, one of the guys there gave us a very detailed synopsis of that final story (this would've been somewhere in the mid-2000s, at least a decade after the book was published). I went home, pulled out the issue, and sure enough, the guy had it all down. I don't know, that's something that has stuck with me since it happened. Some time later, I traded in that issue for a ton of cheap, but good, comics at Lone Star Comics. Almost as good a trade as my Spider-Man 300 trade (which got me the bulk of Simonson's run on Thor in back issues, back in the day). Anyway, I digress.
- In 2001, I was renting studio space with a bunch of other guys who wanted to break into comics. Part of the space was being used by one of those friends to start his own comic shop. During those months we were there and he was trying to build his subscription list, the only issue that was pre-ordered by every one of his customers was issue #1 of the Devil's Due relaunch of G.I. Joe. That, as much as anything, showed me how important this series was to so many of us from my generation.
- When the topic if Joe artists came up, I was muttering to my iPod: Ron Wagner, Ron Wagner, Ron Wagner. I was surprised his name didn't come up, as he, for my money, was THE G.I. JOE ARTIST. Sure, it comes down to personal preference, but I loved his work. Here's a cover image from Wagner (whom, I see, has done some work on the relaunched "Real American Hero" book with Larry Hama):
- And speaking of cover artist - G.I. Joe had a number of stellar cover artists, particularly in the early years once it became a sales juggernaut. Most notably Mike Zeck and Michael Golden were doing covers during the early years. That was some gorgeous stuff.
Oh, and I remember that episode of Transformers with Cobra Commander... one of my favorites out of the whole series! There's enough going on throughout the episode that makes you wonder, "Hey, is that... ?", but the payoff at the end is awesome. Not the only connection to GI Joe that season, though... a recurring human ally of the Autobots later in the season, Marissa Fairborne, is pretty much supposed to be (even if it's not explicitly stated) the daughter of Flint and Lady Jaye. The last name is one clue (Flint's real name was Dashiel Fairborne), but she's also seen talking to her dad on a viewscreen at one point, and he not only resembles an older, beret-less Flint, but he's played by the same voice actor.
I was listening to this again over the weekend and my dad reminded of something that I completely forgot. After that first issue of GI Joe hit, me and two of my friends dug a three and and half feet deep foxhole in the backyard. One of my friends got hold of some scrap plywood and we built an ammo depot along our back fence where the foxhole was and we would store all of out toy weapons there. Good times.
Who's the plastic wrap crinkler?! I hate plastic wrap crinkling! I kid I kid, I love you guys! I've been listening for over a year now and still can't wait for the next episode to come out. For a guy that has loved comics his whole life, I'm still amazed by how much I learn from listening to the show. Keep up the good work, I'll be listening for life!
I remember reading and really loving the G.I. Joe comics. When the original 13 came out, I was a big fan of Flash and Rock and Roll. I don't know why I was never a huge fan of Snake Eyes even though he was really cool. I just wasn't. I think I liked Duke and Flint mostly from the cartoon as well as Wild Bill but I think I also liked them from the comic as well.
One thing about the episode that really took me back was when Chris was talking about going to Somerville New Jersey to get his comics. I grew up in Bridgewater which is the town next door and I used to get my comics at a shop in Somerville all the time as well. They were on Main Street and I think there is still a comic store there but I remember going there and being a experience to say the least.
Great episode as always and I think I'm interested in getting those Marvel trades.
If you really want to get the Marvel run in a good format, IDW is releasing the start of the run in hardcover editions starting this Fall. If they are anything like the hardcovers they have been doing for the IDW Transformers run these will be really nice and around $50 for about 15-20 issues (Through DCBS I was getting them for under $35).
I just saw the GI cartoon pilot for the first time in 26 years. I had no idea Scarlette's boobs could be so bouncy in the craptastic animnation of the mid to late 80s! Oh, and some other stuff happened in the episode, but it wasn't nearly as important.
Thanks for a great episode! It's was a fun listen.
I think I'm just a few months older than Chris. Everything you guys said was spot on. I really couldn't add anything. My own personal story - I started collecting G.I. Joe with issue 8, from my local 7-11 spinner rack. I stayed with it until the late 130s.
Here's a question I'm hoping someone can answer: Is there a "definitive" publication history of G.I. Joe, since the Marvel run? I can figure out the Marvel stuff (although it'd be nice to know when the Special Missions and Yearbooks were published, in relation to the "main" comic). But everything afterward (the Devil's Due and IDW stuff) confuses me.
I'd love to start picking that stuff up, but I have know idea where to start, or what the publication time line is. I'd just like to read everything, in the order that it was published.
I just read there was a Rocky Balboa figure prototype and he actually appeared in one issue, preferring to fight with his fists instead of guns, arrows, knives, sweat, saliva, what have you. Then Marvel retconned him out when they couldn't come to a licensing agreement. Does anyone remember this? I think they should try that in the IDW comic and put him on the front lines, then see him get shot about 50 times while trying to use his fists instead of guns.
OK.... so he was in the second issue. But then when the licensing fell through, it was in the third issue that they printed the "retraction." I'll have to look for those issues sometime.
Thanks Kyle for the further info. I have never heard of the "Order of Battle" series, but I'm guessing due to their star value, probably worth more than a mint Action Comics #1. It's sad there was no Uncle Paulie or Adrian character or figure to go with it. Or Mr. T, Thunderlips, or Dolph Lundgren. Now a Carl Weathers/Apollo Creed GI Joe would have kicked some serious ass.
Thanks Kyle for the further info. I have never heard of the "Order of Battle" series, but I'm guessing due to their star value, probably worth more than a mint Action Comics #1. It's sad there was no Uncle Paulie or Adrian character or figure to go with it. Or Mr. T, Thunderlips, or Dolph Lundgren. Now a Carl Weathers/Apollo Creed GI Joe would have kicked some serious ass.
Order of Battle was basically just the G.I. Joe version of Who's Who or OHOTMU. If by "worth more than a mint Action Comics #1" you mean "in their fair share of 50 cent bins" then sure.
If you really want to get the Marvel run in a good format, IDW is releasing the start of the run in hardcover editions starting this Fall. If they are anything like the hardcovers they have been doing for the IDW Transformers run these will be really nice and around $50 for about 15-20 issues (Through DCBS I was getting them for under $35).
If you're into digital comics (or will be in the near future), Comixology has a 50% off G.I. Joe sale until July 4th. I picked up Vol. 2-4 (issues 11-40) for a total of $18 (I bought Vol. 1 after listening to this episode). I love these deals. It's the only way I buy digital comics.
I was a fan of the show and the toy so I'm really digging the comic series. It's like reconnecting with long forgotten friends.
- And speaking of cover artist - G.I. Joe had a number of stellar cover artists, particularly in the early years once it became a sales juggernaut. Most notably Mike Zeck and Michael Golden were doing covers during the early years. That was some gorgeous stuff.
chris
The cover artists for Joe were astounding. Did want to clarify though that both covers you referenced were by Golden. If you look closely between Cobra Commander's leg and Roadblock's leg on #23 you'll see the symbol Golden used to sign his work with. I had a chance to talk to him about this cover a few years ago as it may be my favorite in the entire run, and he told me that it was the first Joe work he ever did.
Met Mike Zeck at Heroes last weekend and had him sign several Joe books for me, including RAH #34, which I think is his best cover (image below is not my copy). He was extremely nice and it was a thrill to meet him for sure!
Thanks Kyle for the further info. I have never heard of the "Order of Battle" series, but I'm guessing due to their star value, probably worth more than a mint Action Comics #1. It's sad there was no Uncle Paulie or Adrian character or figure to go with it. Or Mr. T, Thunderlips, or Dolph Lundgren. Now a Carl Weathers/Apollo Creed GI Joe would have kicked some serious ass.
Order of Battle was basically just the G.I. Joe version of Who's Who or OHOTMU. If by "worth more than a mint Action Comics #1" you mean "in their fair share of 50 cent bins" then sure.
My son picked up a mint copy of Order of Battle #1, bagged and boarded, for a quarter yesterday at a local shop's anniversary sale. He's 11 and wants to get an entire run of Joe books even though I have them already and he'll get them when he's older...
jt3fan, are you sure you want your son to get his prints all over your comics? I'm kidding, but it's like I told a friend, I can't wait until my impending child (rears its head into the world around Dec. 3, hopefully) turns eight, and I call them to stay of out daddy's Legos, and play with your own!
- And speaking of cover artist - G.I. Joe had a number of stellar cover artists, particularly in the early years once it became a sales juggernaut. Most notably Mike Zeck and Michael Golden were doing covers during the early years. That was some gorgeous stuff.
chris
The cover artists for Joe were astounding. Did want to clarify though that both covers you referenced were by Golden. If you look closely between Cobra Commander's leg and Roadblock's leg on #23 you'll see the symbol Golden used to sign his work with. I had a chance to talk to him about this cover a few years ago as it may be my favorite in the entire run, and he told me that it was the first Joe work he ever did.
Met Mike Zeck at Heroes last weekend and had him sign several Joe books for me, including RAH #34, which I think is his best cover (image below is not my copy). He was extremely nice and it was a thrill to meet him for sure!
Ach! Looking back at it now, the figure work is so obviously Mike Golden. I stand corrected.
jt3fan, are you sure you want your son to get his prints all over your comics? I'm kidding, but it's like I told a friend, I can't wait until my impending child (rears its head into the world around Dec. 3, hopefully) turns eight, and I call them to stay of out daddy's Legos, and play with your own!
My son buys original art at cons to hang on his wall (primarily inked pages) with his own money from mowing lawns, so I'm not worried about him handling my comics.
Best of luck with the new addition, they'll be playing with Legos and everything else quicker than you can imagine.
Thanks for a great episode! It's was a fun listen.
I think I'm just a few months older than Chris. Everything you guys said was spot on. I really couldn't add anything. My own personal story - I started collecting G.I. Joe with issue 8, from my local 7-11 spinner rack. I stayed with it until the late 130s.
Here's a question I'm hoping someone can answer: Is there a "definitive" publication history of G.I. Joe, since the Marvel run? I can figure out the Marvel stuff (although it'd be nice to know when the Special Missions and Yearbooks were published, in relation to the "main" comic). But everything afterward (the Devil's Due and IDW stuff) confuses me.
I'd love to start picking that stuff up, but I have know idea where to start, or what the publication time line is. I'd just like to read everything, in the order that it was published.
I'm not aware of any definitive publication that tells you the order in which everything was released, but looking up GI Joe on ComicBookDB might help.
Just a quick run down of what I can recall off the top of my head after Marvel:
Image did G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero which was meant to follow the stories after the Marvel run. Midway through this run Devil's Due took over the publishing of the comic. This ran until the numbering in the mid-40s. IDW has started releasing this run in trades call G.I. Joe: Disavowed.
Then Devil's Due relaunched with a title called G.I. Joe: America's Elite. This ran for close to 40 issues, with some one-shots and mini-series on the side.
While the Image/Devil's Due main title was going on, they also started a series called G.I. Joe: Frontlines, which was like Special Missions where Joe was not up against Cobra, but rather did other missions. This lasted about 18 issues (my number of issues might be off on all of these. Just going from memory here).
Devil's Due also did a short lived series called G.I. Joe: Reloaded, which was a complete reimagining of the characters. This was a grittier and deadlier take on Joe. It lasted only 14 issues, but it was good. Similar in tone to the GI Joe Resolute cartoon.
Then shortly after Devil's Due went away, IDW got the licensing and started with G.I. Joe, G.I. Joe: Origins, and G.I. Joe: Cobra (a 4 part mini-series). These were a complete new start to Joe with no past continuity.
G.I. Joe went for 26 issues, and then was rebooted to #1 due to a change that occurred in stories, and is currently on issue #14 of the series.
G.I. Joe: Origins (which mostly focused on shorter stories, including some one and done stories) went for 23 issues and ended. It was replaced with the series Snake-Eyes, which is on issue #14, and is currently titles Snake-Eyes & Storm Shadow.
G.I. Joe: Cobra was such a hit as a mini-series that they did a one-shot special, and then it became an ongoing series that lasted 13 issues. That did so well that they did another one-shot special and started the series just titled Cobra. This title is now on its #14 as well.
There are rumblings that the IDW Joe continuity of books might get minimized to just 1 title, but that it might then ship twice a month, so going from 3 titles each month to just 1 title twice a month. That would probably help in some confusion on what to read for people jumping in.
Last but not least, IDW restarted G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero, picking up the Marvel run "from where it left off". This started a couple years ago with the Free Comic Book Day issue #155 1/2, and is still going on. It is currently on #180 (which that issue by the way has my podcast show's name in it in 2 spots. I was very excited to see that.). This title once again is written by Larry Hama. You don't need to really knw the Marvel Run to enjoy it, but if you do, then there are a lot of great references and easter eggs for you to enjoy.
That's about it. Hope this helped some. And of course I would be remissed if I didn't say that if you'd like to know even more about G.I. Joe in current comic titles as well as the past comic titles, give Star Joes a listen....we cover a lot more than just G.I. Joe so we're a good mix of comic talk for anything Star Wars, G.I. Joe, or any of your favorite 80s franchises.
Based on the podcast, I moved GI Joe up on my trades to buy list to #1, Marvel original issues #1-10. The podcast was spot on--they were pretty amazing. A couple of meh issues, but 5-6 brilliant issues also in the trade. Something I picked up from the TPB that I may have missed or was not discussed in the podcast: the idea that anyone on the GI Joe is expendable. Not that there were mass deaths (trying not to spoil, but obviously not all GI Joes died in the first 10 issues, otherwise you would have had a very short series or an entirely new group. I have read The Losers (only in The New Frontier volume 1 TPB), but it felt very much like The Losers to my simple mind. I never, ever thought GI Joe could be this good. I always that of it as a toy line and the comics to sell the toys. Another classic book read because of the Geeks! Yea!
That's about it. Hope this helped some. And of course I would be remissed if I didn't say that if you'd like to know even more about G.I. Joe in current comic titles as well as the past comic titles, give Star Joes a listen....we cover a lot more than just G.I. Joe so we're a good mix of comic talk for anything Star Wars, G.I. Joe, or any of your favorite 80s franchises.
Thanks! That helped a bit. Thanks for the great info. I will definitely check you guys out, as well.
Comments
- The first comic I remember buying was issue 23 of G.I. Joe, "Cobra Commander Captured," I'd been reading my cousin's copies for a few months at the time, but finally decided to dive in with this issue, and I didn't look back for over 120 issues (counting the Yearbooks, over 150 if you count Special Missions). This book, along with 26-27, the Secret Origin of Snake-Eyes, were read and re-read many times over, and it shows on the cover.
- I stuck with the book until 141, I believe. It was around the time they brought the Transformers into the book, and I finally tapped out. My interest had been waning for some time, at that point, and this felt like a good jumping off point. But up until then, I bought G.I. Joe religiously.
- I did manage to snag a copy of the final issue of the Marvel run. Then, years later, during a graphic novel book club discussion, one of the guys there gave us a very detailed synopsis of that final story (this would've been somewhere in the mid-2000s, at least a decade after the book was published). I went home, pulled out the issue, and sure enough, the guy had it all down. I don't know, that's something that has stuck with me since it happened. Some time later, I traded in that issue for a ton of cheap, but good, comics at Lone Star Comics. Almost as good a trade as my Spider-Man 300 trade (which got me the bulk of Simonson's run on Thor in back issues, back in the day). Anyway, I digress.
- In 2001, I was renting studio space with a bunch of other guys who wanted to break into comics. Part of the space was being used by one of those friends to start his own comic shop. During those months we were there and he was trying to build his subscription list, the only issue that was pre-ordered by every one of his customers was issue #1 of the Devil's Due relaunch of G.I. Joe. That, as much as anything, showed me how important this series was to so many of us from my generation.
- When the topic if Joe artists came up, I was muttering to my iPod: Ron Wagner, Ron Wagner, Ron Wagner. I was surprised his name didn't come up, as he, for my money, was THE G.I. JOE ARTIST. Sure, it comes down to personal preference, but I loved his work. Here's a cover image from Wagner (whom, I see, has done some work on the relaunched "Real American Hero" book with Larry Hama):
- And speaking of cover artist - G.I. Joe had a number of stellar cover artists, particularly in the early years once it became a sales juggernaut. Most notably Mike Zeck and Michael Golden were doing covers during the early years. That was some gorgeous stuff.
Zeck (on the first issue I had)
and Golden:
chris
Yooo Joe!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6s2X7wozoAo#!
One thing about the episode that really took me back was when Chris was talking about going to Somerville New Jersey to get his comics. I grew up in Bridgewater which is the town next door and I used to get my comics at a shop in Somerville all the time as well. They were on Main Street and I think there is still a comic store there but I remember going there and being a experience to say the least.
Great episode as always and I think I'm interested in getting those Marvel trades.
I think I'm just a few months older than Chris. Everything you guys said was spot on. I really couldn't add anything. My own personal story - I started collecting G.I. Joe with issue 8, from my local 7-11 spinner rack. I stayed with it until the late 130s.
Here's a question I'm hoping someone can answer: Is there a "definitive" publication history of G.I. Joe, since the Marvel run? I can figure out the Marvel stuff (although it'd be nice to know when the Special Missions and Yearbooks were published, in relation to the "main" comic). But everything afterward (the Devil's Due and IDW stuff) confuses me.
I'd love to start picking that stuff up, but I have know idea where to start, or what the publication time line is. I'd just like to read everything, in the order that it was published.
http://gijoe.wikia.com/wiki/Rocky
I'm not sure what they mean though by his appearances were "retracted." I don't have the Order of Battle issues. Was he in the printed ones or not?
http://comicrelated.com/news/16729/talking-with-larry-hama
I loved the redesign for Destro with the gold helmet, by the way.
I was a fan of the show and the toy so I'm really digging the comic series. It's like reconnecting with long forgotten friends.
Met Mike Zeck at Heroes last weekend and had him sign several Joe books for me, including RAH #34, which I think is his best cover (image below is not my copy). He was extremely nice and it was a thrill to meet him for sure!
thanks,
chris
chris
Best of luck with the new addition, they'll be playing with Legos and everything else quicker than you can imagine.
Just a quick run down of what I can recall off the top of my head after Marvel:
Image did G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero which was meant to follow the stories after the Marvel run. Midway through this run Devil's Due took over the publishing of the comic. This ran until the numbering in the mid-40s. IDW has started releasing this run in trades call G.I. Joe: Disavowed.
Then Devil's Due relaunched with a title called G.I. Joe: America's Elite. This ran for close to 40 issues, with some one-shots and mini-series on the side.
While the Image/Devil's Due main title was going on, they also started a series called G.I. Joe: Frontlines, which was like Special Missions where Joe was not up against Cobra, but rather did other missions. This lasted about 18 issues (my number of issues might be off on all of these. Just going from memory here).
Devil's Due also did a short lived series called G.I. Joe: Reloaded, which was a complete reimagining of the characters. This was a grittier and deadlier take on Joe. It lasted only 14 issues, but it was good. Similar in tone to the GI Joe Resolute cartoon.
Then shortly after Devil's Due went away, IDW got the licensing and started with G.I. Joe, G.I. Joe: Origins, and G.I. Joe: Cobra (a 4 part mini-series). These were a complete new start to Joe with no past continuity.
G.I. Joe went for 26 issues, and then was rebooted to #1 due to a change that occurred in stories, and is currently on issue #14 of the series.
G.I. Joe: Origins (which mostly focused on shorter stories, including some one and done stories) went for 23 issues and ended. It was replaced with the series Snake-Eyes, which is on issue #14, and is currently titles Snake-Eyes & Storm Shadow.
G.I. Joe: Cobra was such a hit as a mini-series that they did a one-shot special, and then it became an ongoing series that lasted 13 issues. That did so well that they did another one-shot special and started the series just titled Cobra. This title is now on its #14 as well.
There are rumblings that the IDW Joe continuity of books might get minimized to just 1 title, but that it might then ship twice a month, so going from 3 titles each month to just 1 title twice a month. That would probably help in some confusion on what to read for people jumping in.
Last but not least, IDW restarted G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero, picking up the Marvel run "from where it left off". This started a couple years ago with the Free Comic Book Day issue #155 1/2, and is still going on. It is currently on #180 (which that issue by the way has my podcast show's name in it in 2 spots. I was very excited to see that.). This title once again is written by Larry Hama. You don't need to really knw the Marvel Run to enjoy it, but if you do, then there are a lot of great references and easter eggs for you to enjoy.
That's about it. Hope this helped some. And of course I would be remissed if I didn't say that if you'd like to know even more about G.I. Joe in current comic titles as well as the past comic titles, give Star Joes a listen....we cover a lot more than just G.I. Joe so we're a good mix of comic talk for anything Star Wars, G.I. Joe, or any of your favorite 80s franchises.