It appears to be a legitimate relaunch--lots of #1s, no resetting of continuity, as opposed to DC's half-relaunch/half-reboot.
Although it may also be that it is not entirely a relaunch, as I don't think we've heard that things like Amazing Spider-Man, Daredevil, Punisher, Uncanny X-Force, or many other books are getting #1s. So far it seems like a creative reshuffle (and associated #1s) for most of the X and Avengers family books, and that's it. But, we'll see.
From what I've heard there's one new #1 a week for 5 months, so we obviously haven't heard of all of the new #1s by far.
This doesn't seem much like the DC New 52 shake-up at all. This is just Marvel relaunching a couple titles and putting out a couple new series, and they're not doing it all at once but rather over multiple months.
Some of the titles look interesting and I'll definitely be checking them out, but trying to suggest that this is a redux of what DC did is just plain wrong. I don't know if Marvel led people on to think this way, before Axel's disclaimer, but either way iFanboy seems to really be exaggerating the news in order to get hits.
This doesn't seem much like the DC New 52 shake-up at all. This is just Marvel relaunching a couple titles and putting out a couple new series, and they're not doing it all at once but rather over multiple months.
Some of the titles look interesting and I'll definitely be checking them out, but trying to suggest that this is a redux of what DC did is just plain wrong. I don't know if Marvel led people on to think this way, before Axel's disclaimer, but either way iFanboy seems to really be exaggerating the news in order to get hits.
Or Marvel is over-hyping it to get the press attention.
@WetRats they definitely are taking the risk of trumpeting this as a big, new thing and time will tell whether the audience actually finds new enough to be worth the hype.
Todd Allen at The Beat had an interesting piece of analysis on what he calls the Marvel strategy of the never-ending relaunch, and the way it might manage to navigate the waves of sales spikes for the new, and the attrition that follows.
So there will be a gay/lesbian character or two, a few will become "edgier", the fan favorites will get overused and this will be paint-by-numbers just like DC... these are the times I am happy that I just don't care and am entirely content to read other comics. Bog standard me-too crap IMO. Here's a crazy idea... actually do something new and unique! (I know crazy talk) Instead of flogging the same tired stuff time and time again, there is actually an alternative to reusing 40+ year old characters over and over again.
So there will be a gay/lesbian character or two, a few will become "edgier", the fan favorites will get overused and this will be paint-by-numbers just like DC... these are the times I am happy that I just don't care and am entirely content to read other comics. Bog standard me-too crap IMO. Here's a crazy idea... actually do something new and unique! (I know crazy talk) Instead of flogging the same tired stuff time and time again, there is actually an alternative to reusing 40+ year old characters over and over again.
I don't know how much you've read into this, but there is actually no evidence that this is a relaunch or that any characters are being changed or rebooted in the ways you are assuming. I think the name of this thread (really, the iFanboy article whose title it is quoting) is misleading. Marvel is not relaunching its universe.
For better or worse, I think this will continue to be Marvel doing what it has been doing. It is just some new #1s and new creative teams, under a promotional banner. No different then "Age of Heroes", "X-Men Regenesis", or "Dark Reign".
Which is not what you want, and that's fine. There is plenty else in the world to read, and some creative reshuffling or relaunching within a line of books you don't read anyway is no skin off your back.
But to just say this is all copying DC's New 52 game plan for changing or adding "edge" to characters does not seem informed by what we've seen of this so far.
That's an interesting article David. I feel like this has gotten bigger than the usual Marvel/DC stalemate. It is now Warner Bros/Disney so the level of marketing savvy just skyrocketed. Disney, obviously, knows how to market the hell out of product. And both companies know how to create good product (not 100% amazing but good). So I think this is going to be an interesting time for comics in general.
I read it... and they do indeed mention changing some characters and their attitudes... and I was being facetious to a point as well in my comment but not entirely. Hey, if you think this is the direction you want for comics you enjoy, great. I'd rather see some originality be the big draw and interest, this isn't it IMO.
I read it... and they do indeed mention changing some characters and their attitudes... and I was being facetious to a point as well in my comment but not entirely. Hey, if you think this is the direction you want for comics you enjoy, great. I'd rather see some originality be the big draw and interest, this isn't it IMO.
I doubt they would consider the sexuality of a character their "attitude". (At least I would hope not!) So I don't think the changes being made will equate to some of the New 52 changes.
As for whether or not this is what I want as a Marvel reader? I have no idea. We'll see. As with the DC New 52, I would rather judge the work then the hype. And I don't know that there is really any clear or different direction here to judge. There is a lot of entertainment I have been enjoying from Marvel for years. And I would guess that will continue to be true. It looks like there will continue to be creators and properties involved that I enjoy, so I am game to give it a try. Along with the many, arguably more original (or, at least newer) creator-owned books I also enjoy.
I read and enjoy a lot of comics. It is a great time to be a comics reader, and I am often spoiled for choice. I like a mix of genres, including long-lived superhero serials. As with film and movies, sometimes I want innovation, and sometimes I want well-executed showbusiness. I don't feel it all has to be some big either/or. Especially when I can buy both.
I read it... and they do indeed mention changing some characters and their attitudes... and I was being facetious to a point as well in my comment but not entirely. Hey, if you think this is the direction you want for comics you enjoy, great. I'd rather see some originality be the big draw and interest, this isn't it IMO.
Personally, I kinda want both. I want my big blockbuster popcorn movie and I want my little independent flick. Just because I like steak and potatoes doesn't mean I can't like sushi and edimame, too.
I like the independent creator owned stuff I'm reading lately but I don't want an exclusive diet of it. It sounds like you are arguing that one type of comic is inherently superior to another and I don't buy that point of view.
It reminds me of high school kids who only like "undiscovered" bands and shun "sellouts". Come on. Every Musician on the planet wants to make a living doing what they love. Wild success doesn't make Aerosmith sellouts. It doesn't make Stephen King a sellout. It doesn't make Robert Kirkman a sellout. It makes them successful and damn good at what they do.
I like what I like. Sometimes that is the manhattan projects. Sometimes it is Wolverine. I don't feel bad about either.
I read it... and they do indeed mention changing some characters and their attitudes... and I was being facetious to a point as well in my comment but not entirely. Hey, if you think this is the direction you want for comics you enjoy, great. I'd rather see some originality be the big draw and interest, this isn't it IMO.
I doubt they would consider the sexuality of a character their "attitude". (At least I would hope not!) So I don't think the changes being made will equate to some of the New 52 changes.
As for whether or not this is what I want as a Marvel reader? I have no idea. We'll see. As with the DC New 52, I would rather judge the work then the hype. And I don't know that there is really any clear or different direction here to judge. There is a lot of entertainment I have been enjoying from Marvel for years. And I would guess that will continue to be true. It looks like there will continue to be creators and properties involved that I enjoy, so I am game to give it a try. Along with the many, arguably more original (or, at least newer) creator-owned books I also enjoy.
I read and enjoy a lot of comics. It is a great time to be a comics reader, and I am often spoiled for choice. I like a mix of genres, including long-lived superhero serials. As with film and movies, sometimes I want innovation, and sometimes I want well-executed showbusiness. I don't feel it all has to be some big either/or. Especially when I can buy both.
I never said any of that @random73. I don't care for "popcorn" flicks and I don't care for lame "events" and gimmicks... what I care for are good comics done with some soul and passion. I never said the big two are incapable of it, just the opposite they have all the talent and money in the world to do it well, they choose not to and instead do things like this which is my gripe. Like I said enjoy the hell out of it, fine by me, but I'd rather see new characters and actual innovation rather than rewarming dinner for the 100th time. That's all. At best this is a reaction to the New 52 and it has to be as hastily planned and thought out as AvX because it has been less than a year for all of it and most likely way less than a year since they saw the numbers over a bit of time and decided it was a good idea. If this was some really well-planned and conceived move I'd give it a bit more credit, but I just don't see it.
huh. i must have misunderstood. sorry if you felt attacked, that wasn't my intention. thats just what it sounded like to me.
"rewarming dinner for the 100th time" sounds to me like "every AC/DC song sounds the same", and yeah they do but you also never mistake AC/DC for anybody else.
the problem is that this is a business and while "new characters and actual innovation" may be noble they don't often sell enough issues to sustain an industry. That stuff by definition HAS to be fringe material.
I'd be excited about this if they were resetting/reinventing the wheel for new readers. As it is, it's just another attempt to cater to the existing audience.
In the 60s–80s, villains and superhero crossovers were on a 6, 12, 18 or 24-month rotation (give or take). Repetition was fine, because there was frequent audience turnover. The new kids coming in didn't know that Reed had sent Galactus away 5 other times; they just saw the threat and said "Aw, coool!"
Older readers accepted and understood that the material wasn't solely for them and either enjoyed the books with that caveat, or moved on to the numerous comics targeted at their age group.
Today, the dying Direct Market is going after the same 30-and-up crowd and leaving the booming youth graphic novel industry to Scholastic, First Second, and others. :-B
I don't fault the Big 2 for loyalty to their existing audience, but I do wish they hadn't abandoned the turnover market.
I'd be excited about this if they were resetting/reinventing the wheel for new readers. As it is, it's just another attempt to cater to the existing audience.
In the 60s–80s, villains and superhero crossovers were on a 6, 12, 18 or 24-month rotation (give or take). Repetition was fine, because there was frequent audience turnover. The new kids coming in didn't know that Reed had sent Galactus away 5 other times; they just saw the threat and said "Aw, coool!"
Older readers accepted and understood that the material wasn't solely for them and either enjoyed the books with that caveat, or moved on to the numerous comics targeted at their age group.
Today, the dying Direct Market is going after the same 30-and-up crowd and leaving the booming youth graphic novel industry to Scholastic, First Second, and others. :-B
I don't fault the Big 2 for loyalty to their existing audience, but I do wish they hadn't abandoned the turnover market.
Steve Bryant for the win!
I always find your posts insightful and interesting, as opposed to others who complain and weep about comics they are not even buying, let alone reading!
As with all things in entertainment, let the hype pass and judge for yourselves when you actually hold the comic in your hands. Thats what I am gonna do. I hope all comic publishers reach new readers with every issue, for each issue could be someone's first.
yeah. they're are still marketing to us after all these years. when we were kids it was fake dog doo now it is a Ford Focus (or real dog doo...) but either way they're still marketing toys to the same folks. the toys are just more expensive.
@random73 no worries (my response seemed more aggressive than I meant it actually so the fault is mine) I just meant that I get more disappointed that with all the talent they can't (won't is more like it) do some great new stuff.
@electric_mayhem, I have no idea what your holier than thou beef is with me. I'll say what the hell I want and my opinion, that is the point here. Keep clicking your dislikes on everything I say or choose to actually discuss things if you wish but your attempts at trying to minimize me are weak at best. I could not care less that you don't like me or value my opinion but let it go dude it is just petty.
@Zhurrie, I wasn't talking about you specifically (we all know there are more than one message board about comics in the ol' interwebs.. :-O ) so please calm down. If it did prick ya a bit, why? Could it be you felt it hit a little close to home? Maybe it is time think about one's contribution to the discussion and decide for yourself, or not. I ain't anybody's conscience but my own's.
Lets get back on topic, shall we?
Whats the over/under for Cassaday not getting those pages out monthly? Month 3? Or maybe month 5? Could he do a whole 6 month arc on time?
A friend and I have discussed the idea of reboot/relaunch in depth.
What we hammered out was that what we'd really like is a 10 year cycle.
Take one of these creator retreats and tell everyone, "Listen, we are going to start this whole universe over, and it is going to last 10 years, and then the whole thing is going to implode in an event and we're going to start again. You have no more than 120 issues to tell every story you've wanted to tell about these characters, beginning to end. Some characters may get titles later on, and they will have even less time. We'll throw in more minis, because some characters just don't have 10 years worth of stories to tell. You can do throwaway stories, or you can decompress a one-and-done story to last six issues, but this universe has an expiration date that isn't changing, and you have this finite number of issues to accomplish what you want."
Imagine if every issue actually mattered. Imagine no more filler. Imagine a sense of importance to each issue because this version of this character was only going to last so long.
As I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate the idea of the finite. Let's face it, there just aren't 75 years of great Superman stories out there (okay, possibly, there are, but we aren't ever going to get them all in a row, especially since, while every writer may have a great Superman story in them, the vast majority of them will never get the chance to write it). But 10 years? Yeah, I think there are. Same with all the big characters.
Reimagine old elements, create new. Take all the characters down to bare bones, one sentence descriptions at the start, and launch from there. After 10 years, do it again.
I know, I'm being overly simplistic, and there are so many logistics to manage, but I still think there is something to this. I mean, they kinda did it with the Ultimate Universe at the start, right?
@electric_mayhem boy you are a smug one aren't you? Maybe stop and think about why I even bother... maybe it is because I actually care and would like to see things make a change for the better in some areas. No, I'm not excited or blown away by rehashed ideas and concepts and "wars" like this, honestly by now I'd think not many long-time readers would be. I never understand how wanting better or more than a mindless popcorn flick/comic is so threatening. I'm not saying every one has to be high art and conceptual and abstract but I am saying that after AvX which has been so banal that I'd love to see one of the big 2 actually try something new and different and refreshing. From what I read *here* in this case I don't see that and that is what I stated. It is all speculation until we see the results, but why the speculation has to be positive only to be accepted does grind my gears... it is all speculation, from what I read and see I simply commented from my perspective. I get frustrated because in the past few of these kinds of threads I'm constantly beat up on for speaking out against or about the flaws and told that I have no say because I recently stopped buying DC/Marvel comics... I do own thousands and have trade after trade and do actually care about some of the characters. In the most recent cases I was 100% correct in my soothsaying in those threads and I have just as much insight and attachment to them even if I am not into the current runs. I'd LOVE to see things change for the better. I know that makes me so terrible.
Uh, nothing. It was a family guy reference. Zhurrie used the phrase in his last post and it struck me funny. And now I feel dumb explaining i now so I'm going to stop talking...
Comments
(Thursday Morning Paperbacking?)
share similar diseases?
That's beautifully-done!
Double Post!
Some of the titles look interesting and I'll definitely be checking them out, but trying to suggest that this is a redux of what DC did is just plain wrong. I don't know if Marvel led people on to think this way, before Axel's disclaimer, but either way iFanboy seems to really be exaggerating the news in order to get hits.
Todd Allen at The Beat had an interesting piece of analysis on what he calls the Marvel strategy of the never-ending relaunch, and the way it might manage to navigate the waves of sales spikes for the new, and the attrition that follows.
You can find it here:
The Stroke of Genius in the Marvel Now Plan- The Never Ending Relaunch
For better or worse, I think this will continue to be Marvel doing what it has been doing. It is just some new #1s and new creative teams, under a promotional banner. No different then "Age of Heroes", "X-Men Regenesis", or "Dark Reign".
Which is not what you want, and that's fine. There is plenty else in the world to read, and some creative reshuffling or relaunching within a line of books you don't read anyway is no skin off your back.
But to just say this is all copying DC's New 52 game plan for changing or adding "edge" to characters does not seem informed by what we've seen of this so far.
As for whether or not this is what I want as a Marvel reader? I have no idea. We'll see. As with the DC New 52, I would rather judge the work then the hype. And I don't know that there is really any clear or different direction here to judge. There is a lot of entertainment I have been enjoying from Marvel for years. And I would guess that will continue to be true. It looks like there will continue to be creators and properties involved that I enjoy, so I am game to give it a try. Along with the many, arguably more original (or, at least newer) creator-owned books I also enjoy.
I read and enjoy a lot of comics. It is a great time to be a comics reader, and I am often spoiled for choice. I like a mix of genres, including long-lived superhero serials. As with film and movies, sometimes I want innovation, and sometimes I want well-executed showbusiness. I don't feel it all has to be some big either/or. Especially when I can buy both.
I like the independent creator owned stuff I'm reading lately but I don't want an exclusive diet of it. It sounds like you are arguing that one type of comic is inherently superior to another and I don't buy that point of view.
It reminds me of high school kids who only like "undiscovered" bands and shun "sellouts". Come on. Every Musician on the planet wants to make a living doing what they love. Wild success doesn't make Aerosmith sellouts. It doesn't make Stephen King a sellout. It doesn't make Robert Kirkman a sellout. It makes them successful and damn good at what they do.
I like what I like. Sometimes that is the manhattan projects. Sometimes it is Wolverine. I don't feel bad about either.
"rewarming dinner for the 100th time" sounds to me like "every AC/DC song sounds the same", and yeah they do but you also never mistake AC/DC for anybody else.
the problem is that this is a business and while "new characters and actual innovation" may be noble they don't often sell enough issues to sustain an industry. That stuff by definition HAS to be fringe material.
In the 60s–80s, villains and superhero crossovers were on a 6, 12, 18 or 24-month rotation (give or take). Repetition was fine, because there was frequent audience turnover. The new kids coming in didn't know that Reed had sent Galactus away 5 other times; they just saw the threat and said "Aw, coool!"
Older readers accepted and understood that the material wasn't solely for them and either enjoyed the books with that caveat, or moved on to the numerous comics targeted at their age group.
Today, the dying Direct Market is going after the same 30-and-up crowd and leaving the booming youth graphic novel industry to Scholastic, First Second, and others. :-B
I don't fault the Big 2 for loyalty to their existing audience, but I do wish they hadn't abandoned the turnover market.
Steve Bryant for the win!
I always find your posts insightful and interesting, as opposed to others who complain and weep about comics they are not even buying, let alone reading!
As with all things in entertainment, let the hype pass and judge for yourselves when you actually hold the comic in your hands. Thats what I am gonna do. I hope all comic publishers reach new readers with every issue, for each issue could be someone's first.
@electric_mayhem, I have no idea what your holier than thou beef is with me. I'll say what the hell I want and my opinion, that is the point here. Keep clicking your dislikes on everything I say or choose to actually discuss things if you wish but your attempts at trying to minimize me are weak at best. I could not care less that you don't like me or value my opinion but let it go dude it is just petty.
Lets get back on topic, shall we?
Whats the over/under for Cassaday not getting those pages out monthly? Month 3? Or maybe month 5? Could he do a whole 6 month arc on time?
What we hammered out was that what we'd really like is a 10 year cycle.
Take one of these creator retreats and tell everyone, "Listen, we are going to start this whole universe over, and it is going to last 10 years, and then the whole thing is going to implode in an event and we're going to start again. You have no more than 120 issues to tell every story you've wanted to tell about these characters, beginning to end. Some characters may get titles later on, and they will have even less time. We'll throw in more minis, because some characters just don't have 10 years worth of stories to tell. You can do throwaway stories, or you can decompress a one-and-done story to last six issues, but this universe has an expiration date that isn't changing, and you have this finite number of issues to accomplish what you want."
Imagine if every issue actually mattered. Imagine no more filler. Imagine a sense of importance to each issue because this version of this character was only going to last so long.
As I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate the idea of the finite. Let's face it, there just aren't 75 years of great Superman stories out there (okay, possibly, there are, but we aren't ever going to get them all in a row, especially since, while every writer may have a great Superman story in them, the vast majority of them will never get the chance to write it). But 10 years? Yeah, I think there are. Same with all the big characters.
Reimagine old elements, create new. Take all the characters down to bare bones, one sentence descriptions at the start, and launch from there. After 10 years, do it again.
I know, I'm being overly simplistic, and there are so many logistics to manage, but I still think there is something to this. I mean, they kinda did it with the Ultimate Universe at the start, right?