To me this is marvel silently admitting DC is better at the game. But really? Let's change the books that need changed and leave the rest alone? Don't they do this all the time?
It seems they are trying to replicate some of the attention that DC got for their reboot, of course. But I don't think what they are doing compares. (Nor do I, personally, think Marvel needs to do a line-wide reboot, as they are doing soft reboots all the time.)
I agree. The plethora of relaunches and renumbering and co-numbering (remember that?!) since Joey Q took over is really quite absurd. Because of their chronic vacillation and capricious approach to issue numbers, I don't see this making the splash that DC recently achieved. But, I've been wrong before!
@random73 Well, I am reading more Dc's than ever before, but I still read mostly Marvel (I'm about a 50% Marvel, 25% DC, 25% indie guy).
But I didn't start reading more DC books because they rebooted their universe - as I mentioned, if anything, I found that to be an impediment to reading DC. I started reading more DC books, because they started putting out more good books (IMHO). If they hadn't rebooted, and put out the same books, I would be reading them anyway.
This is the key lesson the Big 2 need to learn: good books sell comics, not gimmicks. Sure you might get a temporary bump in sales when you put out a new #1 (or 52 of them), but eventually sales will even out and the crappy ones will fall by the wayside (and no, I'm not so naive as to think quality = success in sales as a general rule, but I like to think that over time, the quality book will be the ones that last - in general, not always).
This is the key lesson the Big 2 need to learn: good books sell comics, not gimmicks. Sure you might get a temporary bump in sales when you put out a new #1 (or 52 of them), but eventually sales will even out and the crappy ones will fall by the wayside (and no, I'm not so naive as to think quality = success in sales as a general rule, but I like to think that over time, the quality book will be the ones that last - in general, not always).
I wish this were true, but I think you're mistaken.
I think gimmicks and hype sell more books than quality does.
And I'm afraid the publishers have the data to confirm it.
I think you're both right. Gimmicks and hype certainly do provide an immediate, albeit ephemeral, bump in sales... whereas quality is the only way to ensure prolonged sales success. Unfortunately, I think protracted quality is more difficult to achieve than "gimmick of the month." And thus, we experience gimmick after gimmick after gimmick instead of annual gimmicks that punctuate consistent quality. Oh well, as in all other realms, money makes the world go 'round!
Totally agree that Nu52 is the same as Ultimates. I understand why Marvel did the Ultimate line, but at the time, it kind of disturbed me and went against a huge part of why I bought Marvel (I LOVE the continuity, why would I want to throw it away?).
As for the nu52... I started off picking up a few more DC books than I did before the reboot, but now I'm down to only 2. One will soon be cancelled, and I'm going to drop the last one after the next issue. And I'm not really broken up about it. I think the reason I don't really care is because I don't have anything emotional invested in this new DC universe. I thought about picking up Earth 2, but something about it just felt shallow (there is no historical weight), so I passed. For me the nu52 was a nice experiment, but it didn't stick (not even a year).
I'm glad to hear that Marvel isn't throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If it was a relaunch, my pull list would be chopped down to a fraction of what it is now, and odds are it would be less than that by the end of the first year.
I'm glad to hear that Marvel isn't throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If it was a relaunch, my pull list would be chopped down to a fraction of what it is now, and odds are it would be less than that by the end of the first year.
This is a bit strange to me. If someone enjoys, say a Brubaker/Epting Captain America comic. And then one day Marvel were to say, we're rebooting the Marvel Universe. And there's Captain America #1, with a slightly different origin story (he was a volunteer in Viet Nam in 1968, then he's frozen in ice from 1973-2012), and you have a pretty similar Captain America, still being written by Brubaker and drawn by Epting. If someone enjoyed the comic before. why would they think they wouldn't enjoy it now? Yes, I agree, the emotional heft DOES take a hit in the new creation - but the core of the comic is still the writing and the art and the character (even if he's slightly different now). Wouldn't that be a comic that anyone who read it pre-reboot would continue to read post-reboot?
I would think the only titles to be dropped would be those on the bubble, where the historical continuity was just enough to push you into reading it, and now that this is gone, it's off the pull list. Otherwise, wouldn't there be not much of a difference in what you read?
I agree that great story & great art are reason to plunk down money. It is just that (and this is why I don't buy Marvel's Ultimate line), the "new" version of the characters feel like pale shadows of themselves without the history. If I had not read that character for decades, Ultimates might be fine (maybe even great?), but rehashing a similar story with slight variations and a contemporary telling just puts me off. New characters? Great have at it!
But a huge part of why I love the characters that I love, IS the history. And the stores that I enjoy the most are written by creators that acknowledge and embrace that history.
I have slightly off topic question to ask, but as it does deal with the NOW relaunch directly, I thought I'd ask here. So with the relaunches, this and every one past, the numbering goes back to #1... but if the book is the same title, and the series goes directly forward, just with new numbering, are the digital versions numbered sequentially, or chronologically?
Im thinking about dipping into digital backissues, but if I look at a title like, say, Fantastic Four, and then there comes a NEW FF #1, do the digital services let me know where these issue fall in the catalog? I don't want to have to do some Indian Jones sleuthing to figure out what issue to read next when I haven't followed the Universe in some time...
Case in point here (and how I stay somewhat on topic) is with this relaunch, will it be easy for me to figure out where New Avengers #1 (2005) and New Avengers #1 (2013) fit in. Volume numbers? But what if a book went from #598 to #1 to #600 without changing volumes?
You know what, forget it... I'm just sticking with the paper ;) Though I will be picking up Hickman's Avengers to test it out as I believe his Fantastic Four hasn't been this good since the original Kirby and Lee run...
To me this is marvel silently admitting DC is better at the game. But really? Let's change the books that need changed and leave the rest alone? Don't they do this all the time?
Yes, the do so I am not sure how they are silently admitting that DC is better at the game? Marvel has been doing selective restarts for years. All they have they done this time was put a brand name on it.
I've been putting some thought into this and I've reached the decision that I'm probably done with Marvel once this relaunch is finalized and it's not due to the relaunch per se.
We now have a local shop that I want to help support and I can't do my current pull list with Marvel's reputation for $3.99 price tags and double shipping. I know that we don't have all of the info on this relaunch yet but let's face it, Marvel is a creature of habit so I don't see that changing. It will be a very pleasant surprise if I'm proven wrong and I hope that I am.
I'm also not entirely excited over all of the creative change-ups. Hickman on Avengers, yes please. Fraction on FF (if true), no thank you. Bendis on Guardians of the Galaxy, hell yeah. This also seems a good time to add some existing and/or new talent to the pool instead of having the same half dozen or so guys continue to play rotating titles. I would think that would add some extra buzz to it all as well.
I'm eager to see what is yet to come out of this relaunch and I hope it does well. I'm just looking at how I spend my comic buying dollars and where I want to spend them with greater scrutiny. This relaunch seems like a good jump off point to help with the culling of my pull list and the transition of leaving DCBS and going entirely local.
Bendis on Guardians of the Galaxy? Fuck, I wanted that series as well. Guess the title should really be called Spiderman in Space becuase that's what all his characters seem like to me.
My biggest hope for the relaunch is that they give b,c and d list characters a real chance and they do more with their street level heroes.
@Justin_TheBuck, I'd love that too but look at Moon Knight. It was an amazing run and great team and whether it was planned as a 12 issue arc or not it really should and could have continued. New arc, new team, whatever but it just wasn't there for Marvel. I agree with @Greg, this is more of a jumping off point and more of the same rather than something that has garnered my attention. I still think Marvel and DC are missing the boat that out of all their titles they don't even try to create 1-2 actually NEW characters that speak to the times and readers of today. Making old characters "edgy" and slapping an iPhone in their hand doesn't do it.
Bendis on guardians will be good if we(a) get bendis from 5years ago. (B)we don't get endless pages of talking heads and (c)spiderwoman doesn't join them. Fingers crossed.
I was still new to comics when Bendis started New Avengers, so I tend to miss the "Early arcs of New Avengers" Bendis the same way older reader miss the "Before he ever even touched the Avengers" Bendis.
In those early arcs, he really made each character feel like the lead in a movie. I was dying to know more about Luke Cage and Spider-Woman because he wrote them like there was always more worth knowing. Years later, I was recognizing those qualities naturally peppering his style a lot, and the magic wore off. Probably by the time he told me I should start caring about Mockingbird, I was done. (Sorry, Mockingbird.)
But that was a relatively long time ago, and I haven't read much Bendis in about 2 years...
And a raccoon with a rocket in space sure does sound interesting...
So, if he can make the cosmic characters sound compelling and interesting and make me want to know more... And he doesn't let his tropes stick out too obviously... my money might head that way again...
This is the key lesson the Big 2 need to learn: good books sell comics, not gimmicks. Sure you might get a temporary bump in sales when you put out a new #1 (or 52 of them), but eventually sales will even out and the crappy ones will fall by the wayside (and no, I'm not so naive as to think quality = success in sales as a general rule, but I like to think that over time, the quality book will be the ones that last - in general, not always).
I wish this were true, but I think you're mistaken.
I think gimmicks and hype sell more books than quality does.
And I'm afraid the publishers have the data to confirm it.
:(
I think the publisher data would show that people are suckers and wish instant gratification.
I have slightly off topic question to ask, but as it does deal with the NOW relaunch directly, I thought I'd ask here. So with the relaunches, this and every one past, the numbering goes back to #1... but if the book is the same title, and the series goes directly forward, just with new numbering, are the digital versions numbered sequentially, or chronologically?
You know what, forget it... I'm just sticking with the paper ;) Though I will be picking up Hickman's Avengers to test it out as I believe his Fantastic Four hasn't been this good since the original Kirby and Lee run...
To a degree, comixology let's you know some information. They will have a tag you can follow that goes, within a series, thru a complete story, ie a story arc. They also let you sort all of the comics by series, storyline, creator.... So it takes a little work but you can follow some continuity, not all. They did an excellent job with night of the owls. It had its own section that included all the crossovers. Avx is similar. But they do not do this for everything.
@Justin_TheBuck, I'd love that too but look at Moon Knight. It was an amazing run and great team and whether it was planned as a 12 issue arc or not it really should and could have continued. New arc, new team, whatever but it just wasn't there for Marvel.
Was that the Avengers series that spotlighted Moon Knight?!
I REALLY hope we're not doing the same thing with Marvel NOW that we did with Nu52. I don't think I could stand reading another set of #1s I'm not going to read #2s for!
Was that the Avengers series that spotlighted Moon Knight?!
I REALLY hope we're not doing the same thing with Marvel NOW that we did with Nu52. I don't think I could stand reading another set of #1s I'm not going to read #2s for!
M
haha, indeed. :) Marvel has a real hard time allowing something to just *be* without tentacles into anything and everything else all the time. That Moon Knight book could have been amazing had they let it do its own thing a bit more, but I just don't see it happening regardless of what they call this or how it pans out it will be the same old same old for Marvel. Just like I said with DC, out of the massive number of books they put out each month I wish they would allow 5-10 to just do their own thing and not be part of any events or B.S. I guarantee they would get more attention and sales if they did.
Yeah, but that image is from the "movie" Avengers book. I don't even know if it's in continuity.
I have been buying the Avengers Assembled book, and I too have been wondering where it fits into the Marvel 616 continuity (if at all). Regardless, it has been super fun (for me it has an early Thunderbolts flavour). And that cover image is fantastic! although... no Groot :(
Comments
But really? Let's change the books that need changed and leave the rest alone?
Don't they do this all the time?
But I didn't start reading more DC books because they rebooted their universe - as I mentioned, if anything, I found that to be an impediment to reading DC. I started reading more DC books, because they started putting out more good books (IMHO). If they hadn't rebooted, and put out the same books, I would be reading them anyway.
This is the key lesson the Big 2 need to learn: good books sell comics, not gimmicks. Sure you might get a temporary bump in sales when you put out a new #1 (or 52 of them), but eventually sales will even out and the crappy ones will fall by the wayside (and no, I'm not so naive as to think quality = success in sales as a general rule, but I like to think that over time, the quality book will be the ones that last - in general, not always).
e
L nny
I think gimmicks and hype sell more books than quality does.
And I'm afraid the publishers have the data to confirm it.
:(
Totally agree that Nu52 is the same as Ultimates. I understand why Marvel did the Ultimate line, but at the time, it kind of disturbed me and went against a huge part of why I bought Marvel (I LOVE the continuity, why would I want to throw it away?).
As for the nu52... I started off picking up a few more DC books than I did before the reboot, but now I'm down to only 2. One will soon be cancelled, and I'm going to drop the last one after the next issue. And I'm not really broken up about it. I think the reason I don't really care is because I don't have anything emotional invested in this new DC universe. I thought about picking up Earth 2, but something about it just felt shallow (there is no historical weight), so I passed. For me the nu52 was a nice experiment, but it didn't stick (not even a year).
I'm glad to hear that Marvel isn't throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If it was a relaunch, my pull list would be chopped down to a fraction of what it is now, and odds are it would be less than that by the end of the first year.
I would think the only titles to be dropped would be those on the bubble, where the historical continuity was just enough to push you into reading it, and now that this is gone, it's off the pull list. Otherwise, wouldn't there be not much of a difference in what you read?
e
L nny
But a huge part of why I love the characters that I love, IS the history. And the stores that I enjoy the most are written by creators that acknowledge and embrace that history.
Im thinking about dipping into digital backissues, but if I look at a title like, say, Fantastic Four, and then there comes a NEW FF #1, do the digital services let me know where these issue fall in the catalog? I don't want to have to do some Indian Jones sleuthing to figure out what issue to read next when I haven't followed the Universe in some time...
Case in point here (and how I stay somewhat on topic) is with this relaunch, will it be easy for me to figure out where New Avengers #1 (2005) and New Avengers #1 (2013) fit in. Volume numbers? But what if a book went from #598 to #1 to #600 without changing volumes?
You know what, forget it... I'm just sticking with the paper ;) Though I will be picking up Hickman's Avengers to test it out as I believe his Fantastic Four hasn't been this good since the original Kirby and Lee run...
We now have a local shop that I want to help support and I can't do my current pull list with Marvel's reputation for $3.99 price tags and double shipping. I know that we don't have all of the info on this relaunch yet but let's face it, Marvel is a creature of habit so I don't see that changing. It will be a very pleasant surprise if I'm proven wrong and I hope that I am.
I'm also not entirely excited over all of the creative change-ups. Hickman on Avengers, yes please. Fraction on FF (if true), no thank you. Bendis on Guardians of the Galaxy, hell yeah. This also seems a good time to add some existing and/or new talent to the pool instead of having the same half dozen or so guys continue to play rotating titles. I would think that would add some extra buzz to it all as well.
I'm eager to see what is yet to come out of this relaunch and I hope it does well. I'm just looking at how I spend my comic buying dollars and where I want to spend them with greater scrutiny. This relaunch seems like a good jump off point to help with the culling of my pull list and the transition of leaving DCBS and going entirely local.
My biggest hope for the relaunch is that they give b,c and d list characters a real chance and they do more with their street level heroes.
(B)we don't get endless pages of talking heads and (c)spiderwoman doesn't join them.
Fingers crossed.
In those early arcs, he really made each character feel like the lead in a movie. I was dying to know more about Luke Cage and Spider-Woman because he wrote them like there was always more worth knowing. Years later, I was recognizing those qualities naturally peppering his style a lot, and the magic wore off. Probably by the time he told me I should start caring about Mockingbird, I was done. (Sorry, Mockingbird.)
But that was a relatively long time ago, and I haven't read much Bendis in about 2 years...
And a raccoon with a rocket in space sure does sound interesting...
So, if he can make the cosmic characters sound compelling and interesting and make me want to know more... And he doesn't let his tropes stick out too obviously... my money might head that way again...
They will have a tag you can follow that goes, within a series, thru a complete story, ie a story arc. They also let you sort all of the comics by series, storyline, creator....
So it takes a little work but you can follow some continuity, not all.
They did an excellent job with night of the owls. It had its own section that included all the crossovers. Avx is similar.
But they do not do this for everything.
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/marvel-now-revamp-what-we-know-so-far-1.html
I REALLY hope we're not doing the same thing with Marvel NOW that we did with Nu52. I don't think I could stand reading another set of #1s I'm not going to read #2s for!
M
SWEET
It looks like Peter is going back to being Star-Lord. From the image he is back in his Star-Lord uniform and has his elemental gun.