Torchsong, You're exactly right. Superman has been influenced by "other media" more then any other comic book property. You failed to mention the OTR. The radio show drove the Superman bus for years.
As for me, I find that the older I get, the more I look for escapism, fantasy, and a sense of wonder not just in the movies I watch, but in the books I read (though I still read a lot of biography and history), and the comics I read. That’s not to say I no longer enjoy darker, serious, or realistic fiction, I’m just a lot pickier about that stuff than I used to be.
Torchsong, You're exactly right. Superman has been influenced by "other media" more then any other comic book property. You failed to mention the OTR. The radio show drove the Superman bus for years.
Torchsong, You're exactly right. Superman has been influenced by "other media" more then any other comic book property. You failed to mention the OTR. The radio show drove the Superman bus for years.
Isn't that where Kryptonite originated?
M
Yes, it was brought in as a way to give Bud Collyer, the voice of Superman, time off from the show. For a few episodes they could have someone else groan as Superman lay in a cave too weak from kryptonite poisoning to do anything.
Personally, I don't fault them for trying to market the movie to anyone they believe might go. It is show business after all. But I maintain- and the existence of this marketing campaign only supports this feeling- that the scene where Clark goes to see the priest felt more like pandering than it felt rooted in the story. I still think a stronger scene, and more in keeping with the established idea that Clark's nature and powers were an intense and important family secret, would be if the 'decision' scene before Clark surrenders to the military had been with his mother, rather than with some priest who seemed to be a stranger to him.
But, of course, had the scene been with his mother, then there wouldn't have been this promotional angle.
Also, to give credit where it is due, I found that article because it was mentioned on the Comedy Film Nerds Man of Steel spoiler podcast. I am only a few minutes in to listening to it, but there is a lot on there I agree with so far. (And bound to be a lot I disagree with). They are a good podcast, and for those interested in even more passionate discussion on this, it may be worth your listen.
Torchsong, You're exactly right. Superman has been influenced by "other media" more then any other comic book property. You failed to mention the OTR. The radio show drove the Superman bus for years.
Isn't that where Kryptonite originated?
M
Pretty sure you're right.
Not to mention Jimmy Olsen, Perry White and the first team-up with Batman and Robin.
Finally got round to watching this last night. Now I'm not usually a fan if Superman. It may just be I've never read any stories of his I've liked. I'm not a massive fan if any of the Christopher Reeves movies or superman returns. I also couldn't stand Smallville or the new adventures of superman.
But this movie has finally given me a superman to like. I thought it was a great movie. The tone was great. Shannon, Crowe, Costner and Cavill particularly delivered great performances. I loved the Krypton scenes too. I'd like to see more of this world.
Now I haven't read the whole of this thread so i may be rehashing whats already been saud, but I thought killing Zod was the right way to end the movie.
I know superman doesn't kill. But he also doesn't let innocent people die. In killing Zod he had no choice. But not only did he kill Zod. In his mind, he also killed any chance of saving his own race. By doing this I think in movie two, he'll be dealing with the guilt of this action. It's given him a reason to never kill again. Everyone has an origin of themselves. And this was Supermans.
I haven't read much of this thread because I didn't want to be spoiled before seeing the film. Saw it last night and I thought it was the best Superman yet. I have read some reviews and some of this thread, and I can totally understand a lot of the things people disliked: him killing, the death of Pa Kent, unending battles, etc. My wife did not like it at all, she wanted him to be Clark before Superman and didn't like that Lois knew who he was. All valid points, I can't argue against any of them.
For me I liked how different it was, I was really glad I didn't have to sit through the exact same origin story for the first hour. It was mixed up enough to keep it interesting, yet true enough to the comics where I wasn't grabbing for my pitchfork. I know a lot of people are upset about the destruction of Metropolis during the fight, and yes I agree Superman probably would try to get out of the city to avoid collatoral damage. I thought it was more of Zod would keep going back there anyway to inflict for death so Superman didn't have much choice.
All in all I thought the amount of fighting was perfect. I want to see the most powerful guy in the world/possibly universe beating on someone (and not an island). I too thought the kill at the end was a moment of "I had no choice, but next time I can't paint myself into that corner again."
I also liked how it was a little more "Sci-Fi" than other Superman movies. I liked all the ships and World Eaters, seems like an advanced race would have those in abundance.
On the casting, I thought everyone was very well cast. I was questioning Amy Adams before seeing the movie, but I thought she was spunky enough for Lois. Not quite Margot Kidder's version, but still kind enough of that in your face I would expect.
On the casting, I thought everyone was very well cast. I was questioning Amy Adams before seeing the movie, but I thought she was spunky enough for Lois. Not quite Margot Kidder's version, but still kind enough of that in your face I would expect.
I was questioning Amy Adams right through the entire movie. I thought her portrayal of Lois was on the mark from her first scene, right up until she finally found Clark... at which point she suddenly turned into a cipher... just another NPC walking about in the background. Whatever spunk she showed earlier was pretty much drained away and she showed none of the spirit or attitude that Lois is best known for. It felt very much like the writers had decided that she had served her purpose and kept her around afterwards only to serve a plot point or two.
I was questioning Amy Adams right through the entire movie. I thought her portrayal of Lois was on the mark from her first scene, right up until she finally found Clark... at which point she suddenly turned into a cipher... just another NPC walking about in the background. Whatever spunk she showed earlier was pretty much drained away and she showed none of the spirit or attitude that Lois is best known for. It felt very much like the writers had decided that she had served her purpose and kept her around afterwards only to serve a plot point or two.
I suppose, but when the last hour or so of the movie is mostly fighting, she can't be front and center. I think they tried keeping her somewhat relevant by being in the plane that was dropping Clark's ship and being the only one who knew how to arm the ship, but yeah that was a little weak.
was on vacation in Texas and there was an imax close to our hotel. We don't have an imax close to here so this was my first movie (i'd seen something at a nature observatory or something when I was younger) at an imax. I felt like I was fighting Zod myself for that last half hour, and to be honest it was kind of depressing with the massive massive destruction
i'm just glad they stopped short of Clark bringing someone back from the dead for the Christ imagery........I just realized the bus scene was kind of that
I didn't love it but I didn't hate it either........not sure how this movie can lead to a Justice League either though
who needs Batman when Superman can throw a city at whatever they might be facing and then break the necks of any that make it out
Who needs Batman when Superman can throw a city at whatever they might be facing and then break the necks of any that make it out
So the next time he has to break someone's neck and is like "NO...I swore after Zod I would never take a life again to placate the fanboys and maintain our market share...so I can't do this..." Batman can step in and go "Ease up sonny...I got this..."
I saw this on the 12th, thanks to Warner Bros. hooking up Midtown with some screening tickets... I've been avoiding this on the forum, because I've seen how inflammatory people are about it elsewhere.
There's a lot of good in this movie, the learning to fly scenes, the flashbacks, Ma and Pa.
I actually didn't mind Lois discovering his identity: they had met, and she's a dogged journalist, it makes sense. It would've been foolish to pretend she didn't know who he was.
Everything was working really well....
until Faora came to pick up Kal-El and Lois Lane.
HO-LEE. CRAP.
Let's put aside the moral quandries, and just break this movie down in order.
Smallville, Kansas gets decimated. Main Street is done. Oh wait, doesn't Kal say he's from Kansas? Hey, Swanwick, can you get a satellite fix on Smallville, focus on any residences that may have been damaged?
SWANWICK: The Kents? Let's liase with local law enforcement.
CAPT. THINKS SUPERMAN IS HOT: Hi, Sheriff, this is Capt. thinks Superman is hot. Do you know anything about the Kents?
SHERIFF: Oh yeah, this big city reporter wanted me to drive her over to their house! Name was... Lois?
CAPT: Yeah, Lois Lane.
SHERIFF: Well, she saw the alien and burst out screaming CLARK! The Kent boy's name is Clark.
AND SCENE!
So there's that.
THE FIGHTS:
In the Smallville battle, Superman at least says "GET INSIDE, IT'S NOT SAFE"... even if he doesn't save anyone's life, and crashes INTO BUILDINGS which he said to GET INSIDE.
No attempts to save anyone's life, except a soldier falling out of a helicopter.
METROPOLIS: No attempts to bother saving anyone. Leaping OVER a tanker that wouldn't have hurt him, and letting it hit a parking lot with PEOPLE STILL INSIDE.
That's not Superman. He let hundreds of thousands die so Zod could have his temper tantrum.
If you add that to his execution of Zod, it's senseless.
And what's the next scene? Is he talking to his mother about killing one of his own? Is he getting consoled by her, hearing that he did the right thing and that he saved the day?
Nope.
He's joking around with Swanwick, so he can fish for a complement from a Marine Captain.
The sequel should have more Superman saving people's lives... and more importantly, when he's about to punch a hole through Brainiac/Luthor/whoever... he should stop.
He should not kill again. Ever.
That's the only way I can forgive this movie.
I'm 29 years old, so by no means am I an old man, but my Superman was not the Superman on the big screen.
The topper for all of this? My co-worker went to see this movie and when Superman snapped Zod's neck, he turned to his left.
Next to him was a father with his 5 year old daughter. The little girl asked "Daddy, what did Superman just do?"
That is why this Superman is wrong. Unequivocally wrong.
What I've been finding interesting have been all of the reviews I've been hearing and reading, from the traditional movie critics right through the average comic pro... and there really doesn't seem to be a solid consensus one way or the other about this film. I'll read one where tons of praise are piled upon each actor, and then the next will excoriate them. One defends the killing of Zod, the next condemns it. One speaks highly of the intricacies of the storyline, but another picks it apart mercilessly. Some critics love some part of it and not some other part, and somebody else will do the same but in reverse. Some love it, others hate it, and there really isn't much of a middle ground.
I've seen disagreements over movies before, but there's usually a larger consensus in one direction or another. I'm not seeing that here. The audience and the critics seem to be pretty evenly split.
Though in that last instance, I blame the parent for taking a 5 year old to a PG-13 movie. Sure, if it is a sneak preview, there will be less info about what earned the rating. But the parent could have waited a week and then 10 seconds on Google could tell Daddy all he needed to know.
Though in that last instance, I blame the parent for taking a 5 year old to a PG-13 movie. Sure, if it is a sneak preview, there will be less info about what earned the rating. But the parent could have waited a week and then 10 seconds on Google could tell Daddy all he needed to know.
Smallville, Kansas gets decimated. Main Street is done. Oh wait, doesn't Kal say he's from Kansas? Hey, Swanwick, can you get a satellite fix on Smallville, focus on any residences that may have been damaged?
SWANWICK: The Kents? Let's liase with local law enforcement.
CAPT. THINKS SUPERMAN IS HOT: Hi, Sheriff, this is Capt. thinks Superman is hot. Do you know anything about the Kents?
SHERIFF: Oh yeah, this big city reporter wanted me to drive her over to their house! Name was... Lois?
CAPT: Yeah, Lois Lane.
SHERIFF: Well, she saw the alien and burst out screaming CLARK! The Kent boy's name is Clark.
All my problems aside, I actually really like Henry Cavill. As a person, he's awesome, and he did a decent job as Superman. Amy Adams was good up until a certain point... I thought if the general was Lois' dad, instead of Swanwick, it'd have made for better character development. There could've been a scene where Lois and Clark talk about being outsiders, how Lois was an army brat who went from base to base.
Michael Shannon's Zod was... well, he's like any comic movie supervillain: over the top, ridiculous, and in need of some hot tea with lemon.
The Kents were well done, the El's were ok. I don't have any obvious issues with Crowe's Jor-El.
Two general things to say about Zack Snyder:
1) He knows how to create beautiful movies with absolutely no soul. He almost gave this movie a soul, only to rip it out of it's chest and insert superspeed violence.
2) As a New Yorker, as someone who grew up less than two miles from the World Trade Center, I am so sick and tired of 9/11 imagery. I had to walk home that day staring at that smoke cloud of steel, glass and dead bodies. I hated Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close for that reason, and I hated the final battle for that too. The flying papers, the dust in the air... a little too close to home. Literally.
1) He knows how to create beautiful movies with absolutely no soul. He almost gave this movie a soul, only to rip it out of it's chest and insert superspeed violence.
I originally called the film soul-less, but changed my mind.
The Kents were the soul of the film, for good or ill. I completely believed both Costner and Lane as Ma & Pa.
I saw this on the 12th, thanks to Warner Bros. hooking up Midtown with some screening tickets... I've been avoiding this on the forum, because I've seen how inflammatory people are about it elsewhere.
There's a lot of good in this movie, the learning to fly scenes, the flashbacks, Ma and Pa.
I actually didn't mind Lois discovering his identity: they had met, and she's a dogged journalist, it makes sense. It would've been foolish to pretend she didn't know who he was.
Everything was working really well....
until Faora came to pick up Kal-El and Lois Lane.
HO-LEE. CRAP.
Let's put aside the moral quandries, and just break this movie down in order.
Smallville, Kansas gets decimated. Main Street is done. Oh wait, doesn't Kal say he's from Kansas? Hey, Swanwick, can you get a satellite fix on Smallville, focus on any residences that may have been damaged?
SWANWICK: The Kents? Let's liase with local law enforcement.
CAPT. THINKS SUPERMAN IS HOT: Hi, Sheriff, this is Capt. thinks Superman is hot. Do you know anything about the Kents?
SHERIFF: Oh yeah, this big city reporter wanted me to drive her over to their house! Name was... Lois?
CAPT: Yeah, Lois Lane.
SHERIFF: Well, she saw the alien and burst out screaming CLARK! The Kent boy's name is Clark.
AND SCENE!
So there's that.
THE FIGHTS:
In the Smallville battle, Superman at least says "GET INSIDE, IT'S NOT SAFE"... even if he doesn't save anyone's life, and crashes INTO BUILDINGS which he said to GET INSIDE.
No attempts to save anyone's life, except a soldier falling out of a helicopter.
METROPOLIS: No attempts to bother saving anyone. Leaping OVER a tanker that wouldn't have hurt him, and letting it hit a parking lot with PEOPLE STILL INSIDE.
That's not Superman. He let hundreds of thousands die so Zod could have his temper tantrum.
If you add that to his execution of Zod, it's senseless.
And what's the next scene? Is he talking to his mother about killing one of his own? Is he getting consoled by her, hearing that he did the right thing and that he saved the day?
Nope.
He's joking around with Swanwick, so he can fish for a complement from a Marine Captain.
The sequel should have more Superman saving people's lives... and more importantly, when he's about to punch a hole through Brainiac/Luthor/whoever... he should stop.
He should not kill again. Ever.
That's the only way I can forgive this movie.
I'm 29 years old, so by no means am I an old man, but my Superman was not the Superman on the big screen.
The topper for all of this? My co-worker went to see this movie and when Superman snapped Zod's neck, he turned to his left.
Next to him was a father with his 5 year old daughter. The little girl asked "Daddy, what did Superman just do?"
That is why this Superman is wrong. Unequivocally wrong.
I wouldn't say killing Zod was senseless with what was occurring in the movie. Superman shouldn't kill, but I understand why it happened here.
And what's the next scene? Is he talking to his mother about killing one of his own? Is he getting consoled by her, hearing that he did the right thing and that he saved the day?
Zod wasn't one of his own. He'd been a Kryptonian for an hour or so (Our time, a few months his time.).
All those poor bastards in the buildings were his own.
Comments
M
Personally, I don't fault them for trying to market the movie to anyone they believe might go. It is show business after all. But I maintain- and the existence of this marketing campaign only supports this feeling- that the scene where Clark goes to see the priest felt more like pandering than it felt rooted in the story. I still think a stronger scene, and more in keeping with the established idea that Clark's nature and powers were an intense and important family secret, would be if the 'decision' scene before Clark surrenders to the military had been with his mother, rather than with some priest who seemed to be a stranger to him.
But, of course, had the scene been with his mother, then there wouldn't have been this promotional angle.
But this movie has finally given me a superman to like. I thought it was a great movie. The tone was great. Shannon, Crowe, Costner and Cavill particularly delivered great performances. I loved the Krypton scenes too. I'd like to see more of this world.
Now I haven't read the whole of this thread so i may be rehashing whats already been saud, but I thought killing Zod was the right way to end the movie.
I know superman doesn't kill. But he also doesn't let innocent people die. In killing Zod he had no choice. But not only did he kill Zod. In his mind, he also killed any chance of saving his own race. By doing this I think in movie two, he'll be dealing with the guilt of this action. It's given him a reason to never kill again. Everyone has an origin of themselves. And this was Supermans.
For me I liked how different it was, I was really glad I didn't have to sit through the exact same origin story for the first hour. It was mixed up enough to keep it interesting, yet true enough to the comics where I wasn't grabbing for my pitchfork. I know a lot of people are upset about the destruction of Metropolis during the fight, and yes I agree Superman probably would try to get out of the city to avoid collatoral damage. I thought it was more of Zod would keep going back there anyway to inflict for death so Superman didn't have much choice.
All in all I thought the amount of fighting was perfect. I want to see the most powerful guy in the world/possibly universe beating on someone (and not an island). I too thought the kill at the end was a moment of "I had no choice, but next time I can't paint myself into that corner again."
I also liked how it was a little more "Sci-Fi" than other Superman movies. I liked all the ships and World Eaters, seems like an advanced race would have those in abundance.
On the casting, I thought everyone was very well cast. I was questioning Amy Adams before seeing the movie, but I thought she was spunky enough for Lois. Not quite Margot Kidder's version, but still kind enough of that in your face I would expect.
Once again, the actor shouldn't be blamed for the script.
i'm just glad they stopped short of Clark bringing someone back from the dead for the Christ imagery........I just realized the bus scene was kind of that
I didn't love it but I didn't hate it either........not sure how this movie can lead to a Justice League either though
who needs Batman when Superman can throw a city at whatever they might be facing and then break the necks of any that make it out
*SNAP!*
:)
He put a lot of work into this.
Kyle Baker's Mass Murderer of Steel: The Game.
There's a lot of good in this movie, the learning to fly scenes, the flashbacks, Ma and Pa.
I actually didn't mind Lois discovering his identity: they had met, and she's a dogged journalist, it makes sense. It would've been foolish to pretend she didn't know who he was.
Everything was working really well....
until Faora came to pick up Kal-El and Lois Lane.
HO-LEE. CRAP.
Let's put aside the moral quandries, and just break this movie down in order.
Smallville, Kansas gets decimated. Main Street is done. Oh wait, doesn't Kal say he's from Kansas? Hey, Swanwick, can you get a satellite fix on Smallville, focus on any residences that may have been damaged?
SWANWICK: The Kents? Let's liase with local law enforcement.
CAPT. THINKS SUPERMAN IS HOT: Hi, Sheriff, this is Capt. thinks Superman is hot. Do you know anything about the Kents?
SHERIFF: Oh yeah, this big city reporter wanted me to drive her over to their house! Name was... Lois?
CAPT: Yeah, Lois Lane.
SHERIFF: Well, she saw the alien and burst out screaming CLARK! The Kent boy's name is Clark.
AND SCENE!
So there's that.
THE FIGHTS:
In the Smallville battle, Superman at least says "GET INSIDE, IT'S NOT SAFE"... even if he doesn't save anyone's life, and crashes INTO BUILDINGS which he said to GET INSIDE.
No attempts to save anyone's life, except a soldier falling out of a helicopter.
METROPOLIS: No attempts to bother saving anyone. Leaping OVER a tanker that wouldn't have hurt him, and letting it hit a parking lot with PEOPLE STILL INSIDE.
That's not Superman. He let hundreds of thousands die so Zod could have his temper tantrum.
If you add that to his execution of Zod, it's senseless.
And what's the next scene? Is he talking to his mother about killing one of his own? Is he getting consoled by her, hearing that he did the right thing and that he saved the day?
Nope.
He's joking around with Swanwick, so he can fish for a complement from a Marine Captain.
The sequel should have more Superman saving people's lives... and more importantly, when he's about to punch a hole through Brainiac/Luthor/whoever... he should stop.
He should not kill again. Ever.
That's the only way I can forgive this movie.
I'm 29 years old, so by no means am I an old man, but my Superman was not the Superman on the big screen.
The topper for all of this? My co-worker went to see this movie and when Superman snapped Zod's neck, he turned to his left.
Next to him was a father with his 5 year old daughter. The little girl asked "Daddy, what did Superman just do?"
That is why this Superman is wrong. Unequivocally wrong.
I've seen disagreements over movies before, but there's usually a larger consensus in one direction or another. I'm not seeing that here. The audience and the critics seem to be pretty evenly split.
Though in that last instance, I blame the parent for taking a 5 year old to a PG-13 movie. Sure, if it is a sneak preview, there will be less info about what earned the rating. But the parent could have waited a week and then 10 seconds on Google could tell Daddy all he needed to know.
Say it with me: "Hey! You Kids! Get offa my lawn!"
Michael Shannon's Zod was... well, he's like any comic movie supervillain: over the top, ridiculous, and in need of some hot tea with lemon.
The Kents were well done, the El's were ok. I don't have any obvious issues with Crowe's Jor-El.
Two general things to say about Zack Snyder:
1) He knows how to create beautiful movies with absolutely no soul. He almost gave this movie a soul, only to rip it out of it's chest and insert superspeed violence.
2) As a New Yorker, as someone who grew up less than two miles from the World Trade Center, I am so sick and tired of 9/11 imagery. I had to walk home that day staring at that smoke cloud of steel, glass and dead bodies. I hated Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close for that reason, and I hated the final battle for that too. The flying papers, the dust in the air... a little too close to home. Literally.
I want a cartoon of Tea With Zod.
Right up there with the infamous Amish Daredevil.
The Kents were the soul of the film, for good or ill. I completely believed both Costner and Lane as Ma & Pa.
M
All those poor bastards in the buildings were his own.