A few days and a lot of discussion later, I think if I had to boil down the essential thing that was missing for me, it is that we never saw Superman inspire people.
Yep.
Took me a while to notice that, being distracted by the Snap Decision.*
I liked the review, unfortunately i think some peoples reviews are running up against the comment limit. I tried to post my own and ran into the same thing. IF you're interested, and that might be a big IF, you can find mine at My Blog
Bottom Line: I liked Cavill Clark Kent/Superman very much. Liked the Krypton scenes a lot and in general enjoyed the plot and music. Movie possibly had 20% too much Russell Crowe. Had no problem with the ending.
That was my nice, passive aggressive way of saying "don't just post a link to where your review is."
I have no problems with people post a link to their thoughts & pimp their blogs, podcasts, etc, BUT give us a little to wet our whistle. What you did is perfect; pimped your blog AND gave us some of your thoughts in THIS thread.
Driveby link pimps are the same as popup ads!
M
Whoa Whoa Whoa, lets not say things we can't take back, like comparing links to popup ads.
One thing I'm hoping for from an extended cut: more krypton with more horse/flying creature action.
I was in awe of all the destruction. It felt like the comics have been showing us for years. Most of the time you don't really see the type of mayhem that these types of fights can have in the movies but in this it was jaw dropping what they were willing to show and how much they were willing to destroy. I also felt like there were several scenes in the movie that could be put straight in a comic as a 2 page spread. Over all I really liked it. There are definite holes in the movie for sure but it is a great building block for the bigger universe.
Side note.. When Jenny was trapped under parts of a building I actually felt her fear for her life. Some of the best acting in the while movie for me.
Agreed. I was blown away by that girls performance. It stuck with me and put nearly all the other big names to shame. It's too bad we knew nothing a out the character or had a y reason to really care about her.
The latest Kevin smiths "Fatman on batman" podcast is a MoS review and its hilarious! They make a lot of good funny points. I side with Ralph's interpretation but not quite as negative or as passionately. His views of the handling of pa kent especially mirror my own.
I don't mind a review that's different from mine, but do some research; Superman II & Superman #22. Don't say he never kills when he clearly has (saying he should not kill is perfectly acceptable.)
Second issue I have with the review; Pa never told Clark he should've let those kids die. Check the scene:
"What was I supposed to do? Let them die?"
"I don't know. Maybe."
The scene is to get Clark to think about when & how he uses his powers. Jonathan never said "yes, you should've let them die." Until I see/hear that statement, I will not accept this as a big issue. (If you'd say this is what the scene was to convey, but poorly written, THEN I would accept the complaint.)
To be honest, I thought the girl intern was one of the most forgettable people in the film. If it wasn't for the scene where she was freed from being trapped by rubble and debris and looks out over the demolished city (and presumed corpses of thousands of people) to pronounce "He... he saved us all!", I wouldn't remember her at all.
Seriously; Pete Ross's few scenes stick out more prominently to me.
I wouldve forgot that girl too had she not delivered such a believable performance with w/ really nothing to work with. Nobody wouldve cared had she and Perry White died. We had no reason to. Pete Ross neither really. Did he even have a line in the movie? Pete Ross was totally disposable too and kindve annoying to me. Compare that girls ability to emote with just her expressions to Clarks krypton mom in all her scenes spoken and othersie... that lady was not good.
My wife was bored with the fights and wondered at least twice out loud how much longer they could possibly go on. I think the drawn out action / fight scenes couldve and wouldve been sooo much better had they incorporated a little more variety than just punching.
Was there any explanation given for why there was a super suit with the house of El symbol on it in the kryptonian ship that was buried on earth 13.000 years earlier?
That quote is equally damming as well as worthy of praise.
"that were just wrong" - In YOUR eyes. Not mine. Not in the eyes of a good number of people who saw it, went to see it again, will be buying the DVD, can't wait for the next one, etc. So "wrong" really equates to "not how I'd have done it" which really isn't wrong at all. This is Not. That. Superman. Hell, it's not even the John Byrne version, as much as we try and make that connection. It's a new take on him. Some people...hell, apparently a lot of people...are going to like it. Some people are definitely going to hate it.
You know, one thing that had occurred to me during the climatic battle that wiped out so much of Metropolis was how much the spectacle was being wasted this soon... and that it should have been saved for the third or fourth film when they could have introduced Doomsday. Now, it'll only seem anticlimatic.
You know, one thing that had occurred to me during the climatic battle that wiped out so much of Metropolis was how much the spectacle was being wasted this soon... and that it should have been saved for the third or fourth film when they could have introduced Doomsday. Now, it'll only seem anticlimatic.
Very interesting indeed...but I've got to circle back to something that people seem to be overlooking; at NO point did Pa tell Clark to let people die. He responded to Clark's question with an uncertain "maybe." There's no other part in the movie where Pa said Clark shouldn't have saved anyone.
As for motive, what motivates children to grow up to become police, firefighters, EMTs, etc? How do we know Clark didn't read a comic or see a show with a hero (of any kind)? I wanted to become a detective since I first saw the Scooby Gang solve mysteries. I am not related to or know anyone in law enforcement type field.
There's no indication Clark traveled the world because of the death of Pa either. Remember the conversation they had about Clark having a purpose & even if it took the rest of his life to find it?! Clark left Smallville to find that purpose.
When it comes to those Pa Kent scenes, I think people see what's there instead of what's going on in the scene.
Very interesting indeed...but I've got to circle back to something that people seem to be overlooking; at NO point did Pa tell Clark to let people die. He responded to Clark's question with an uncertain "maybe." There's no other part in the movie where Pa said Clark shouldn't have saved anyone.
As for motive, what motivates children to grow up to become police, firefighters, EMTs, etc? How do we know Clark didn't read a comic or see a show with a hero (of any kind)? I wanted to become a detective since I first saw the Scooby Gang solve mysteries. I am not related to or know anyone in law enforcement type field.
When it comes to those Pa Kent scenes, I think people see what's there instead of what's going on in the scene.
M
Yep.
How people hear "I don't know. Maybe" and turn it into "Yes" mystifies me.
The latest Kevin smiths "Fatman on batman" podcast is a MoS review and its hilarious! They make a lot of good funny points. I side with Ralph's interpretation but not quite as negative or as passionately. His views of the handling of pa kent especially mirror my own.
I heard that as well. There was something Smith said that intrigued me, he said in Superman Returns, Superman never throws a punch throughout the entire film. That can't be true, can it? :-O
As beautifully-filmed as the scene of little Clark playing in slo-mo while Pa looks lovingly on was, I think it would have been more effective to see some other little boy playing in a cape while some other father looked on lovingly. So mething to indicate that Superman did inspire hope as opposed to just breaking stuff and scaring the crap out of everybody on earth,
The latest Kevin smiths "Fatman on batman" podcast is a MoS review and its hilarious! They make a lot of good funny points. I side with Ralph's interpretation but not quite as negative or as passionately. His views of the handling of pa kent especially mirror my own.
I heard that as well. There was something Smith said that intrigued me, he said in Superman Returns, Superman never throws a punch throughout the entire film. That can't be true, can it? :-O
Very interesting indeed...but I've got to circle back to something that people seem to be overlooking; at NO point did Pa tell Clark to let people die. He responded to Clark's question with an uncertain "maybe." There's no other part in the movie where Pa said Clark shouldn't have saved anyone.
As for motive, what motivates children to grow up to become police, firefighters, EMTs, etc? How do we know Clark didn't read a comic or see a show with a hero (of any kind)? I wanted to become a detective since I first saw the Scooby Gang solve mysteries. I am not related to or know anyone in law enforcement type field.
When it comes to those Pa Kent scenes, I think people see what's there instead of what's going on in the scene.
M
Yep.
How people hear "I don't know. Maybe" and turn it into "Yes" mystifies me.
To be fair, though, even "maybe" is a pretty shocking answer given the context (a bus full of drowning children).
A very honest and human answer for a parent that wants to protect their child, even maybe at the expense of the many, but still.
I think Pa Kent as a character would have been helped if the writing had made it a little more clear *when* Clark was supposed to start changing the world and making a difference. It seemed that was the Kents' dream for him, but when was that to start? It seems they did not see Clark bumping into extraordinary, life changing moments of danger (the crash, the tornado) as providence. But what was the plan? How many people was Clark supposed to not save before he was ready to go save the world?
To be fair, though, even "maybe" is a pretty shocking answer given the context (a bus full of drowning children).
A very honest and human answer for a parent that wants to protect their child, even maybe at the expense of the many, but still.
I think Pa Kent as a character would have been helped if the writing had made it a little more clear *when* Clark was supposed to start changing the world and making a difference. It seemed that was the Kents' dream for him, but when was that to start? It seems they did not see Clark bumping into extraordinary, life changing moments of danger (the crash, the tornado) as providence. But what was the plan? How many people was Clark supposed to not save before he was ready to go save the world?
I don't think that was the Kents' dream at all.
Wasn't Jonathan trying to talk Clark into being a farmer just before they encountered the tornado?
I think Clark's trying to change the world and make a difference was more of a dreaded inevitability than a dream.
To be fair, though, even "maybe" is a pretty shocking answer given the context (a bus full of drowning children).
A very honest and human answer for a parent that wants to protect their child, even maybe at the expense of the many, but still.
I think Pa Kent as a character would have been helped if the writing had made it a little more clear *when* Clark was supposed to start changing the world and making a difference. It seemed that was the Kents' dream for him, but when was that to start? It seems they did not see Clark bumping into extraordinary, life changing moments of danger (the crash, the tornado) as providence. But what was the plan? How many people was Clark supposed to not save before he was ready to go save the world?
I don't think that was the Kents' dream at all.
Wasn't Jonathan trying to talk Clark into being a farmer just before they encountered the tornado?
I think Clark's trying to change the world and make a difference was more of a dreaded inevitability than a dream.
Pete just saw the movie, so I asked him what the conversation was; it was about Clark being a farmer. I think it was Clark wanting to see the world & Pa continuing to want to protect him.
Most of us were raised on the the Jonathan Kent we know and love from the comics - a wise and fairly simple man who always had the right answer for Clark in his youth, with a loving wife who is equally good with sage words of homespun wisdom. Together these two gave Clark a childhood, and an opportunity to grow, and should he veer off course, their combined sagacity would steer him back to the straight and narrow.
In short...they're not realistic at all. (To be fair, it *is* a comic book...I know that may shock some of you. :) )
"I don't know. Maybe." is what a human being, wrestling with that moral conflict in his own mind, before he passes it on to his son, might say. Pa doesn't really know the answer to that question. Do you? Sure, it's a knee-jerk reaction to say "It's a Superman movie and Clark should save all the kids." but there are repercussions to doing that in the "real world" that they've tried to set this movie in. News gets out. The government takes Clark away when he's still vulnerable mentally. He becomes a living weapon for the government to use. Thank god this isn't Red Son. :) So yes...horrific though it is...I can see Pa thinking that the smart play might have been to let them drown. I don't know that he's convinced himself of what the right thing to do is anymore than he's "passing the buck" to Clark.
I thought Costner rocked in the role. A huge chunk of this movie, to me, is about two opposing fathers with different ideas about how to achieve the same goal.
Most of us were raised on the the Jonathan Kent we know and love from the comics - a wise and fairly simple man who always had the right answer for Clark in his youth, with a loving wife who is equally good with sage words of homespun wisdom. Together these two gave Clark a childhood, and an opportunity to grow, and should he veer off course, their combined sagacity would steer him back to the straight and narrow.
In short...they're not realistic at all. (To be fair, it *is* a comic book...I know that may shock some of you. :) )
"I don't know. Maybe." is what a human being, wrestling with that moral conflict in his own mind, before he passes it on to his son, might say. Pa doesn't really know the answer to that question. Do you? Sure, it's a knee-jerk reaction to say "It's a Superman movie and Clark should save all the kids." but there are repercussions to doing that in the "real world" that they've tried to set this movie in. News gets out. The government takes Clark away when he's still vulnerable mentally. He becomes a living weapon for the government to use. Thank god this isn't Red Son. :) So yes...horrific though it is...I can see Pa thinking that the smart play might have been to let them drown. I don't know that he's convinced himself of what the right thing to do is anymore than he's "passing the buck" to Clark.
I thought Costner rocked in the role. A huge chunk of this movie, to me, is about two opposing fathers with different ideas about how to achieve the same goal.
I'm going to start filtering my opinions through you. You explain it so much better then I!
I thought Costner rocked in the role. A huge chunk of this movie, to me, is about two opposing fathers with different ideas about how to achieve the same goal.
Missed opportunity: Going from gray, sterile Krypton to Kansas in mid-summer, everything green crops and sunshine. Flip the Oz trick around. Krypton/Oz is monochrome, Kansas is technicolor.
Comments
Took me a while to notice that, being distracted by the Snap Decision.*
*Not my joke, stolen from... somewhere
One thing I'm hoping for from an extended cut: more krypton with more horse/flying creature action.
Second issue I have with the review; Pa never told Clark he should've let those kids die. Check the scene:
"What was I supposed to do? Let them die?"
"I don't know. Maybe."
The scene is to get Clark to think about when & how he uses his powers. Jonathan never said "yes, you should've let them die." Until I see/hear that statement, I will not accept this as a big issue. (If you'd say this is what the scene was to convey, but poorly written, THEN I would accept the complaint.)
M
Seriously; Pete Ross's few scenes stick out more prominently to me.
Compare that girls ability to emote with just her expressions to Clarks krypton mom in all her scenes spoken and othersie... that lady was not good.
My wife was bored with the fights and wondered at least twice out loud how much longer they could possibly go on. I think the drawn out action / fight scenes couldve and wouldve been sooo much better had they incorporated a little more variety than just punching.
Was there any explanation given for why there was a super suit with the house of El symbol on it in the kryptonian ship that was buried on earth 13.000 years earlier?
love ya Torchsong. best post yet..
robot6.comicbookresources.com/2013/06/man-of-steel-and-supermans-new-heroic-motivation/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Please.
No Doomsday.
As for motive, what motivates children to grow up to become police, firefighters, EMTs, etc? How do we know Clark didn't read a comic or see a show with a hero (of any kind)? I wanted to become a detective since I first saw the Scooby Gang solve mysteries. I am not related to or know anyone in law enforcement type field.
There's no indication Clark traveled the world because of the death of Pa either. Remember the conversation they had about Clark having a purpose & even if it took the rest of his life to find it?! Clark left Smallville to find that purpose.
When it comes to those Pa Kent scenes, I think people see what's there instead of what's going on in the scene.
M
How people hear "I don't know. Maybe" and turn it into "Yes" mystifies me.
A very honest and human answer for a parent that wants to protect their child, even maybe at the expense of the many, but still.
I think Pa Kent as a character would have been helped if the writing had made it a little more clear *when* Clark was supposed to start changing the world and making a difference. It seemed that was the Kents' dream for him, but when was that to start? It seems they did not see Clark bumping into extraordinary, life changing moments of danger (the crash, the tornado) as providence. But what was
the plan? How many people was Clark supposed to not save before he was ready to go save the world?
Wasn't Jonathan trying to talk Clark into being a farmer just before they encountered the tornado?
I think Clark's trying to change the world and make a difference was more of a dreaded inevitability than a dream.
M
Most of us were raised on the the Jonathan Kent we know and love from the comics - a wise and fairly simple man who always had the right answer for Clark in his youth, with a loving wife who is equally good with sage words of homespun wisdom. Together these two gave Clark a childhood, and an opportunity to grow, and should he veer off course, their combined sagacity would steer him back to the straight and narrow.
In short...they're not realistic at all. (To be fair, it *is* a comic book...I know that may shock some of you. :) )
"I don't know. Maybe." is what a human being, wrestling with that moral conflict in his own mind, before he passes it on to his son, might say. Pa doesn't really know the answer to that question. Do you? Sure, it's a knee-jerk reaction to say "It's a Superman movie and Clark should save all the kids." but there are repercussions to doing that in the "real world" that they've tried to set this movie in. News gets out. The government takes Clark away when he's still vulnerable mentally. He becomes a living weapon for the government to use. Thank god this isn't Red Son. :) So yes...horrific though it is...I can see Pa thinking that the smart play might have been to let them drown. I don't know that he's convinced himself of what the right thing to do is anymore than he's "passing the buck" to Clark.
I thought Costner rocked in the role. A huge chunk of this movie, to me, is about two opposing fathers with different ideas about how to achieve the same goal.
M
Jonathan Kent wanted his son to be a Man.
Missed opportunity: Going from gray, sterile Krypton to Kansas in mid-summer, everything green crops and sunshine. Flip the Oz trick around. Krypton/Oz is monochrome, Kansas is technicolor.
*And why I hate the WW/Superman romance.