I'm still blown out at the hate and continuing vitriol this movie is causing. I've never seen a movie cause so much damage to peoples lives.
^^^ To be filed under, 'Exaggerating the reaction of the other side to make them seem ridiculous.'
I don't think anyone is claiming their lives have been damaged. Nor would I claim those who loved it have had their lives healed. I think everyone here is keeping perspective- it's a movie.
But this movie had big expectations. And the character is very important to a lot of people. A brand that many have had a long relationship with. That can lead to some big disappointments (as well as big enthusiasm, for those that got the movie they wanted).
But lets not pretend the negative reviews are anything but people talking about not liking a movie.
Though in that last instance, I blame the parent for taking a 5 year old to a PG-13 movie. Sure, if it is a sneak preview, there will be less info about what earned the rating. But the parent could have waited a week and then 10 seconds on Google could tell Daddy all he needed to know.
You're right. I think Spider-man is more mild then this movie, but it was still PG-13. I would've gone to see it first, research like David D suggested, or spoke with someone who'd seen it. Any complaints this guy has (regarding his kid) is really him just deflecting his irresponsibility.
I saw this on the 12th, thanks to Warner Bros. hooking up Midtown with some screening tickets... I've been avoiding this on the forum, because I've seen how inflammatory people are about it elsewhere.
There's a lot of good in this movie, the learning to fly scenes, the flashbacks, Ma and Pa.
I actually didn't mind Lois discovering his identity: they had met, and she's a dogged journalist, it makes sense. It would've been foolish to pretend she didn't know who he was.
Everything was working really well....
until Faora came to pick up Kal-El and Lois Lane.
HO-LEE. CRAP.
Let's put aside the moral quandries, and just break this movie down in order.
Smallville, Kansas gets decimated. Main Street is done. Oh wait, doesn't Kal say he's from Kansas? Hey, Swanwick, can you get a satellite fix on Smallville, focus on any residences that may have been damaged?
SWANWICK: The Kents? Let's liase with local law enforcement.
CAPT. THINKS SUPERMAN IS HOT: Hi, Sheriff, this is Capt. thinks Superman is hot. Do you know anything about the Kents?
SHERIFF: Oh yeah, this big city reporter wanted me to drive her over to their house! Name was... Lois?
CAPT: Yeah, Lois Lane.
SHERIFF: Well, she saw the alien and burst out screaming CLARK! The Kent boy's name is Clark.
AND SCENE!
So there's that.
THE FIGHTS:
In the Smallville battle, Superman at least says "GET INSIDE, IT'S NOT SAFE"... even if he doesn't save anyone's life, and crashes INTO BUILDINGS which he said to GET INSIDE.
No attempts to save anyone's life, except a soldier falling out of a helicopter.
METROPOLIS: No attempts to bother saving anyone. Leaping OVER a tanker that wouldn't have hurt him, and letting it hit a parking lot with PEOPLE STILL INSIDE.
That's not Superman. He let hundreds of thousands die so Zod could have his temper tantrum.
If you add that to his execution of Zod, it's senseless.
And what's the next scene? Is he talking to his mother about killing one of his own? Is he getting consoled by her, hearing that he did the right thing and that he saved the day?
Nope.
He's joking around with Swanwick, so he can fish for a complement from a Marine Captain.
The sequel should have more Superman saving people's lives... and more importantly, when he's about to punch a hole through Brainiac/Luthor/whoever... he should stop.
He should not kill again. Ever.
That's the only way I can forgive this movie.
I'm 29 years old, so by no means am I an old man, but my Superman was not the Superman on the big screen.
The topper for all of this? My co-worker went to see this movie and when Superman snapped Zod's neck, he turned to his left.
Next to him was a father with his 5 year old daughter. The little girl asked "Daddy, what did Superman just do?"
That is why this Superman is wrong. Unequivocally wrong.
I wouldn't say killing Zod was senseless with what was occurring in the movie. Superman shouldn't kill, but I understand why it happened here.
M
It's not that it was senseless in that he did it, it's just so much destruction, if you were gonna do it, you should do it right when you realize you can't stop him. If Superman had been like "we can co-exist with these people" or "we can find another planet" and then Zod was like "NO DUDE NO WAY!" I could see him doing it. Supes didn't give a rat's ass about all the people in the buildings. If he had helped someone, then reluctantly killed Zod, it'd make me feel better.
I'm still blown out at the hate and continuing vitriol this movie is causing. I've never seen a movie cause so much damage to peoples lives.
For my part, I am a HARDCORE, HARDCORE, HARDCORE Superman fan. I wouldn't be posting on this forum, listening to podcasts, wanting to write comics, working at Midtown Comics, reading 100 comics a month, done my own podcast, or be the person I am right now, without Superman.
When I was a kid, my parents left me home with my grandparents or alone. I didn't have the greatest family life, but on Saturdays every two or three months, WPIX would put on Superman marathons, and George Reeves' Superman was syndicated on WWOR. So these guys in the red and blue tights informed me on how I should behave and what I should be like.
I could care less how they changed the Mandarin, I could care less about how different the Marvel movies are compared to the source material, these guys are malleable.
Superman? He is the golden standard. He is my golden standard.
Do I hate the movie? No, but did it let me down? YES. And the fact that I've gotten into arguments with people at work and they don't get why I'm upset, kinda bugs me.
I can be rational about every other superhero, Superman is my guy. And Henry Cavill's Superman, as conceived by Zack Snyder and David Goyer, is what the REST OF THE WORLD sees him as. Not the comic version, maybe 10% of the movie going public reads a comic, less even. That's what bugs me... this is what people think Superman is.
I'm still blown out at the hate and continuing vitriol this movie is causing. I've never seen a movie cause so much damage to peoples lives.
For my part, I am a HARDCORE, HARDCORE, HARDCORE Superman fan. I wouldn't be posting on this forum, listening to podcasts, wanting to write comics, working at Midtown Comics, reading 100 comics a month, done my own podcast, or be the person I am right now, without Superman.
When I was a kid, my parents left me home with my grandparents or alone. I didn't have the greatest family life, but on Saturdays every two or three months, WPIX would put on Superman marathons, and George Reeves' Superman was syndicated on WWOR. So these guys in the red and blue tights informed me on how I should behave and what I should be like.
I could care less how they changed the Mandarin, I could care less about how different the Marvel movies are compared to the source material, these guys are malleable.
Superman? He is the golden standard. He is my golden standard.
Do I hate the movie? No, but did it let me down? YES. And the fact that I've gotten into arguments with people at work and they don't get why I'm upset, kinda bugs me.
I can be rational about every other superhero, Superman is my guy. And Henry Cavill's Superman, as conceived by Zack Snyder and David Goyer, is what the REST OF THE WORLD sees him as. Not the comic version, maybe 10% of the movie going public reads a comic, less even. That's what bugs me... this is what people think Superman is.
I saw this on the 12th, thanks to Warner Bros. hooking up Midtown with some screening tickets... I've been avoiding this on the forum, because I've seen how inflammatory people are about it elsewhere.
There's a lot of good in this movie, the learning to fly scenes, the flashbacks, Ma and Pa.
I actually didn't mind Lois discovering his identity: they had met, and she's a dogged journalist, it makes sense. It would've been foolish to pretend she didn't know who he was.
Everything was working really well....
until Faora came to pick up Kal-El and Lois Lane.
HO-LEE. CRAP.
Let's put aside the moral quandries, and just break this movie down in order.
Smallville, Kansas gets decimated. Main Street is done. Oh wait, doesn't Kal say he's from Kansas? Hey, Swanwick, can you get a satellite fix on Smallville, focus on any residences that may have been damaged?
SWANWICK: The Kents? Let's liase with local law enforcement.
CAPT. THINKS SUPERMAN IS HOT: Hi, Sheriff, this is Capt. thinks Superman is hot. Do you know anything about the Kents?
SHERIFF: Oh yeah, this big city reporter wanted me to drive her over to their house! Name was... Lois?
CAPT: Yeah, Lois Lane.
SHERIFF: Well, she saw the alien and burst out screaming CLARK! The Kent boy's name is Clark.
AND SCENE!
So there's that.
THE FIGHTS:
In the Smallville battle, Superman at least says "GET INSIDE, IT'S NOT SAFE"... even if he doesn't save anyone's life, and crashes INTO BUILDINGS which he said to GET INSIDE.
No attempts to save anyone's life, except a soldier falling out of a helicopter.
METROPOLIS: No attempts to bother saving anyone. Leaping OVER a tanker that wouldn't have hurt him, and letting it hit a parking lot with PEOPLE STILL INSIDE.
That's not Superman. He let hundreds of thousands die so Zod could have his temper tantrum.
If you add that to his execution of Zod, it's senseless.
And what's the next scene? Is he talking to his mother about killing one of his own? Is he getting consoled by her, hearing that he did the right thing and that he saved the day?
Nope.
He's joking around with Swanwick, so he can fish for a complement from a Marine Captain.
The sequel should have more Superman saving people's lives... and more importantly, when he's about to punch a hole through Brainiac/Luthor/whoever... he should stop.
He should not kill again. Ever.
That's the only way I can forgive this movie.
I'm 29 years old, so by no means am I an old man, but my Superman was not the Superman on the big screen.
The topper for all of this? My co-worker went to see this movie and when Superman snapped Zod's neck, he turned to his left.
Next to him was a father with his 5 year old daughter. The little girl asked "Daddy, what did Superman just do?"
That is why this Superman is wrong. Unequivocally wrong.
I wouldn't say killing Zod was senseless with what was occurring in the movie. Superman shouldn't kill, but I understand why it happened here.
M
It's not that it was senseless in that he did it, it's just so much destruction, if you were gonna do it, you should do it right when you realize you can't stop him. If Superman had been like "we can co-exist with these people" or "we can find another planet" and then Zod was like "NO DUDE NO WAY!" I could see him doing it. Supes didn't give a rat's ass about all the people in the buildings. If he had helped someone, then reluctantly killed Zod, it'd make me feel better.
Looks like you're not going to be convinced it wasn't senseless anymore then I'll be convinced it was. Truth is, when Zod & Superman were crashing through buildings, we didn't see people. We are presuming on some floors there are still people (though as soon as I'd seeing a huge spaceship, I'd be street level). When Zod was threatening those people, we/Superman saw them.
I'm still blown out at the hate and continuing vitriol this movie is causing. I've never seen a movie cause so much damage to peoples lives.
For my part, I am a HARDCORE, HARDCORE, HARDCORE Superman fan. I wouldn't be posting on this forum, listening to podcasts, wanting to write comics, working at Midtown Comics, reading 100 comics a month, done my own podcast, or be the person I am right now, without Superman.
When I was a kid, my parents left me home with my grandparents or alone. I didn't have the greatest family life, but on Saturdays every two or three months, WPIX would put on Superman marathons, and George Reeves' Superman was syndicated on WWOR. So these guys in the red and blue tights informed me on how I should behave and what I should be like.
I could care less how they changed the Mandarin, I could care less about how different the Marvel movies are compared to the source material, these guys are malleable.
Superman? He is the golden standard. He is my golden standard.
Do I hate the movie? No, but did it let me down? YES. And the fact that I've gotten into arguments with people at work and they don't get why I'm upset, kinda bugs me.
I can be rational about every other superhero, Superman is my guy. And Henry Cavill's Superman, as conceived by Zack Snyder and David Goyer, is what the REST OF THE WORLD sees him as. Not the comic version, maybe 10% of the movie going public reads a comic, less even. That's what bugs me... this is what people think Superman is.
I can't stand that.
I'd argue the fundamentals of who Superman is was in the movie. Last son of krypton, discovered by a Kansas couple, raised human, superpowers from the yellow sun, reporter, protector of Earth. You can easily argue the path to get to those checkpoints wasn't parellel to the comics, but its still there. Assuming people have had minimal exposure to the character, they could still understand the barebones essence of Superman.
To be honest, I found this interpretation (and that's what it is) to be an interesting take on the character. The journey he took to get answers & the isolation he felt made Superman interesting to follow. This ideal he's an infallible god has me rolling my eyes quicker then when Marvel said Age of Ultron WAS intended to be released post-MarvelNOW!
This (and the news the government is storing cell, texts, & email conversations) has gotten me thinking about people's desire to be completely safe & secure without loosing any civil rights. We (comic book readers) want the medium to be widely accepted & prosper, but don't want it diluted, rather keep everything the same. You can't have 100% security AND 100% civil rights. You can't get the industry to be widely accepted & not make ANY modifications to the characters. (Yeah, and King of the Nerds and The Big Bang Theory are NOT helping the culture!)
There are things in The Dark Knight Trilogy I wasn't completely confortable with, but accepted. The last movies both made over $1 billion. I doubt that's because comic book fans made several multiple trips.
Yeah, the diehard readers are becoming collateral damage to get a wider audience. Its happening with comics, scifi, toys, & even professional sports. Its what happens. No one HAS to like, just accept its going to happen.
Yeah, the diehard readers are becoming collateral damage to get a wider audience. Its happening with comics, scifi, toys, & even professional sports. Its what happens. No one HAS to like, just accept its going to happen.
Accepted.
But I don't have to support them.
My fandom may die hard, perhaps, but it can die nonetheless.
Yeah, the diehard readers are becoming collateral damage to get a wider audience. Its happening with comics, scifi, toys, & even professional sports. Its what happens. No one HAS to like, just accept its going to happen.
Accepted.
But I don't have to support them.
My fandom may die hard, perhaps, but it can die nonetheless.
What's that old business saying "80% of your business comes from 20% of your consumers."
Yeah, the diehard readers are becoming collateral damage to get a wider audience. Its happening with comics, scifi, toys, & even professional sports. Its what happens. No one HAS to like, just accept its going to happen.
Accepted.
But I don't have to support them.
My fandom may die hard, perhaps, but it can die nonetheless.
What's that old business saying "80% of your business comes from 20% of your consumers."
In third place, Man of Steel added $41.3 million. That's off 65 percent from last weekend—68 percent if you roll in grosses from the Thursday ahead of opening day. The 65 percent decline is worse than The Incredible Hulk (60 percent) and only slightly better than notoriously front-loaded comic book movie Green Lantern (66 percent), which is not a flattering comparison. Still, at $210.1 million it's already topped the final tally of Superman Returns ($200 million); if the bleeding slows down next weekend, the movie could still ultimately wind up with over $300 million.
I mean, still more money than *I* made last weekend. But, still. Fair to say a bigger drop off than some experts expected.
I wonder if the fact that it was pretty grim and downbeat had something to do with that?
(Sure, the Nolan Batman movies did gangbuster business and could be grim and downbeat, but I would contend all of those had more hope and uplift in them than MofS did. As well as, in the case of The Dark Knight, a performance exciting enough to come see twice.)
In third place, Man of Steel added $41.3 million. That's off 65 percent from last weekend—68 percent if you roll in grosses from the Thursday ahead of opening day. The 65 percent decline is worse than The Incredible Hulk (60 percent) and only slightly better than notoriously front-loaded comic book movie Green Lantern (66 percent), which is not a flattering comparison. Still, at $210.1 million it's already topped the final tally of Superman Returns ($200 million); if the bleeding slows down next weekend, the movie could still ultimately wind up with over $300 million.
I mean, still more money than *I* made last weekend. But, still. Fair to say a bigger drop off than some experts expected.
I wonder if the fact that it was pretty grim and downbeat had something to do with that?
(Sure, the Nolan Batman movies did gangbuster business and could be grim and downbeat, but I would contend all of those had more hope and uplift in them than MofS did. As well as, in the case of The Dark Knight, a performance exciting enough to come see twice.)
I wonder if it was word of mouth. If you didn't read comics & was mildly interested in the movie, if a comic book fan said it stank, would you still go see it? I know "civilians" ask me about comic book movies & if I like them.
Pretty good (IMO) critique of MoS and its flaws from Director Max Landis. Mainly regarding the character. The guy does come across to me as a little annoying and pretentious but he makes some good points. some of which I really like and agree with. Warning: contains a few F-bombs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw_GlYve_Lg
I wonder if the fact that it was pretty grim and downbeat had something to do with that?
Being grim & downbeat worked OK for WWZ.
Sure, and looking a dark, edgy and "emo" (as the kids say) may have actually helped get people in the door for Man of Steel the first weekend. Or at least didn't push them away, as the advertising definitely had a dark look.
But dark is not the same as the movie being a bummer. If that is how audiences felt at MOS, then they won't come back the next weekend, or recommend it to others. That may have been what happened with that drop off. Next weekend we might see the same for WWZ, or, if people were enthused by what the movie ended up being when the watched it, we may see different.
I wonder if the fact that it was pretty grim and downbeat had something to do with that?
Being grim & downbeat worked OK for WWZ.
Sure, and looking a dark, edgy and "emo" (as the kids say) may have actually helped get people in the door for Man of Steel the first weekend. Or at least didn't push them away, as the advertising definitely had a dark look.
But dark is not the same as the movie being a bummer. If that is how audiences felt at MOS, then they won't come back the next weekend, or recommend it to others. That may have been what happened with that drop off. Next weekend we might see the same for WWZ, or, if people were enthused by what the movie ended up being when the watched it, we may see different.
Not really disagreeing, just being cynical.
May have to go see Much Ado again, burn away the rest of the grumpiness.
I'm still blown out at the hate and continuing vitriol this movie is causing. I've never seen a movie cause so much damage to peoples lives.
For my part, I am a HARDCORE, HARDCORE, HARDCORE Superman fan. I wouldn't be posting on this forum, listening to podcasts, wanting to write comics, working at Midtown Comics, reading 100 comics a month, done my own podcast, or be the person I am right now, without Superman.
When I was a kid, my parents left me home with my grandparents or alone. I didn't have the greatest family life, but on Saturdays every two or three months, WPIX would put on Superman marathons, and George Reeves' Superman was syndicated on WWOR. So these guys in the red and blue tights informed me on how I should behave and what I should be like.
I could care less how they changed the Mandarin, I could care less about how different the Marvel movies are compared to the source material, these guys are malleable.
Superman? He is the golden standard. He is my golden standard.
Do I hate the movie? No, but did it let me down? YES. And the fact that I've gotten into arguments with people at work and they don't get why I'm upset, kinda bugs me.
I can be rational about every other superhero, Superman is my guy. And Henry Cavill's Superman, as conceived by Zack Snyder and David Goyer, is what the REST OF THE WORLD sees him as. Not the comic version, maybe 10% of the movie going public reads a comic, less even. That's what bugs me... this is what people think Superman is.
I can't stand that.
So... you want people to know him as the horrible current incarnation of the comic?
In third place, Man of Steel added $41.3 million. That's off 65 percent from last weekend—68 percent if you roll in grosses from the Thursday ahead of opening day. The 65 percent decline is worse than The Incredible Hulk (60 percent) and only slightly better than notoriously front-loaded comic book movie Green Lantern (66 percent), which is not a flattering comparison. Still, at $210.1 million it's already topped the final tally of Superman Returns ($200 million); if the bleeding slows down next weekend, the movie could still ultimately wind up with over $300 million.
I mean, still more money than *I* made last weekend. But, still. Fair to say a bigger drop off than some experts expected.
I wonder if the fact that it was pretty grim and downbeat had something to do with that?
(Sure, the Nolan Batman movies did gangbuster business and could be grim and downbeat, but I would contend all of those had more hope and uplift in them than MofS did. As well as, in the case of The Dark Knight, a performance exciting enough to come see twice.)
Not sure how a movie that's made almost as much as Star Trek:ID in less than two weeks can be discounted. Its facing fierce competition and its not going to get any better. It's likely to make $300 million in the US, maybe more.... which is more than Batman Begins made even when adjusting for inflation.
As a point of comparison, Batman Begins lost 43% during its second week... but it was only facing competition from "Bewitched" and "Stepford Wives" and "Herbie: Fully Loaded" Batman Begin's 2nd Weekend Breakdown boxofficemojo.com
Nolan built up cache with the Batman movies because some, but not all, people liked them. This movie has to work on that as well. I think it would be fair to say they used Nolan's cache to make this movie a hit. Now, whether or not they can have their own version of what happened with The Dark Knight... who knows. The success of that movie critically and economically were pretty special.
There's a lot of interesting things going on with Man of Steel. For instance, yes it has that low Rotten Tomatoes score, but it has an "A" CinemaScore, just like Batman Begins has. MOS has a lower audience score on RT than Batman Begins... but has a higher average rating. Begin's is 3.9 out of 5 , MOS is 4.2 out of 5 (many less reviews obviously though because people have been watching and rating Begins for 8 years).
To compare it outside of DC movies, Iron Man 2 has a much higher critic score of 73%... but a lower audience score than MOS. It's "average rating" among critics is 6.7 out of 10, while MOS is 6.2 out of 10. And MOS has a higher average rating among fans.
To me what this means that its dividing people. People who don't like it are not giving it forgiving reviews, and people who like it... really like it.
@Planeis I am not saying it should be discounted. Rather, I am just quoting the people that report on box office for a living in noting that it had a big second week drop-off. It's second week did not live up to expectations. That is not to say that it hasn't, and will not continue to, make a lot of money.
But less than they thought it would. A steeper second week decline than projected. And a steep second week drop off usually says something about enthusiasm and word of mouth.
@Planeis I am not saying it should be discounted. Rather, I am just quoting the people that report on box office for a living in noting that it had a big second week drop-off. It's second week did not live up to expectations. That is not to say that it hasn't, and will not continue to, make a lot of money.
But less than they thought it would. A steeper second week decline than projected. And a steep second week drop off usually says something about enthusiasm and word of mouth.
Well, I'm not disagreeing with box office mojo, but I do disagree with your comments.
The drop was larger than expected, but I submit that its because of the extremely fierce competition, as the writer notes in the beginning paragraph. As an example of how fierce the competition was, Batman Begins opened during the same weekend in 2005. Now, obviously, prices have changed, but allow me to show something. The two new openings against Man of Steel generated $148 million domestically. During Begins' 2nd weekend, the entire top 10 was only $122 million.
And its also a result of a huge, huge opening. For instance, the two movies Ray compares it to, The Incredible Hulk and Green Lantern, Man of Steel's opening was almost as high as those movies' entire domestic run. That's big. Its drop was always going to be big. Ray at boxofficemojo.com, while noting the decrease, does not make any statements about bad word of mouth. Indeed, he takes the time to note that Monsters U had an "A" CinemaScore rating, which he says suggests it will generate good word of mouth. Man of Steel has an "A-"; CinemaScore in general is what points to the "word of mouth".
In addition, despite the much talked about low RT score and certain highly publicised people who disliked the movie, obviously there are fans who didn't like it, but many many people did. That's what I'm saying with the divided opinion. For instance It has the 2nd highest Metacritic score among users. Higher than all the other movies currently in theaters except for one that I've never heard of.
That's all I'm saying. Not that anyone has to like it. Not that the money its making proves its good, because it doesn't. Just that among the audience, the general reception is that yes, some people really didn't like it, but many others really, really did. And that the steep drop is mostly attributed to hot competition, which won't be getting any lighter this week.
Comments
I don't think anyone is claiming their lives have been damaged. Nor would I claim those who loved it have had their lives healed. I think everyone here is keeping perspective- it's a movie.
But this movie had big expectations. And the character is very important to a lot of people. A brand that many have had a long relationship with. That can lead to some big disappointments (as well as big enthusiasm, for those that got the movie they wanted).
But lets not pretend the negative reviews are anything but people talking about not liking a movie.
Or a Fahrenheit 9/11.
Or even a Phantom Menace
But it does inspire passionate reactions.
M
M
I guess he didn't see Batman (1989).
M
M
When I was a kid, my parents left me home with my grandparents or alone. I didn't have the greatest family life, but on Saturdays every two or three months, WPIX would put on Superman marathons, and George Reeves' Superman was syndicated on WWOR. So these guys in the red and blue tights informed me on how I should behave and what I should be like.
I could care less how they changed the Mandarin, I could care less about how different the Marvel movies are compared to the source material, these guys are malleable.
Superman? He is the golden standard. He is my golden standard.
Do I hate the movie? No, but did it let me down? YES. And the fact that I've gotten into arguments with people at work and they don't get why I'm upset, kinda bugs me.
I can be rational about every other superhero, Superman is my guy. And Henry Cavill's Superman, as conceived by Zack Snyder and David Goyer, is what the REST OF THE WORLD sees him as. Not the comic version, maybe 10% of the movie going public reads a comic, less even. That's what bugs me... this is what people think Superman is.
I can't stand that.
Things areole personal when they have a "face."
M
To be honest, I found this interpretation (and that's what it is) to be an interesting take on the character. The journey he took to get answers & the isolation he felt made Superman interesting to follow. This ideal he's an infallible god has me rolling my eyes quicker then when Marvel said Age of Ultron WAS intended to be released post-MarvelNOW!
This (and the news the government is storing cell, texts, & email conversations) has gotten me thinking about people's desire to be completely safe & secure without loosing any civil rights. We (comic book readers) want the medium to be widely accepted & prosper, but don't want it diluted, rather keep everything the same. You can't have 100% security AND 100% civil rights. You can't get the industry to be widely accepted & not make ANY modifications to the characters. (Yeah, and King of the Nerds and The Big Bang Theory are NOT helping the culture!)
There are things in The Dark Knight Trilogy I wasn't completely confortable with, but accepted. The last movies both made over $1 billion. I doubt that's because comic book fans made several multiple trips.
Yeah, the diehard readers are becoming collateral damage to get a wider audience. Its happening with comics, scifi, toys, & even professional sports. Its what happens. No one HAS to like, just accept its going to happen.
M
But I don't have to support them.
My fandom may die hard, perhaps, but it can die nonetheless.
M
I wonder if the fact that it was pretty grim and downbeat had something to do with that?
(Sure, the Nolan Batman movies did gangbuster business and could be grim and downbeat, but I would contend all of those had more hope and uplift in them than MofS did. As well as, in the case of The Dark Knight, a performance exciting enough to come see twice.)
I wonder if the fact that it was pretty grim and downbeat had something to do with that?
(Sure, the Nolan Batman movies did gangbuster business and could be grim and downbeat, but I would contend all of those had more hope and uplift in them than MofS did. As well as, in the case of The Dark Knight, a performance exciting enough to come see twice.)
I wonder if it was word of mouth. If you didn't read comics & was mildly interested in the movie, if a comic book fan said it stank, would you still go see it? I know "civilians" ask me about comic book movies & if I like them.
M
Warning: contains a few F-bombs
But dark is not the same as the movie being a bummer. If that is how audiences felt at MOS, then they won't come back the next weekend, or recommend it to others. That may have been what happened with that drop off. Next weekend we might see the same for WWZ, or, if people were enthused by what the movie ended up being when the watched it, we may see different.
May have to go see Much Ado again, burn away the rest of the grumpiness.
I wonder if the fact that it was pretty grim and downbeat had something to do with that?
(Sure, the Nolan Batman movies did gangbuster business and could be grim and downbeat, but I would contend all of those had more hope and uplift in them than MofS did. As well as, in the case of The Dark Knight, a performance exciting enough to come see twice.)
Not sure how a movie that's made almost as much as Star Trek:ID in less than two weeks can be discounted. Its facing fierce competition and its not going to get any better. It's likely to make $300 million in the US, maybe more.... which is more than Batman Begins made even when adjusting for inflation.
As a point of comparison, Batman Begins lost 43% during its second week... but it was only facing competition from "Bewitched" and "Stepford Wives" and "Herbie: Fully Loaded" Batman Begin's 2nd Weekend Breakdown boxofficemojo.com
Nolan built up cache with the Batman movies because some, but not all, people liked them. This movie has to work on that as well. I think it would be fair to say they used Nolan's cache to make this movie a hit. Now, whether or not they can have their own version of what happened with The Dark Knight... who knows. The success of that movie critically and economically were pretty special.
There's a lot of interesting things going on with Man of Steel. For instance, yes it has that low Rotten Tomatoes score, but it has an "A" CinemaScore, just like Batman Begins has. MOS has a lower audience score on RT than Batman Begins... but has a higher average rating. Begin's is 3.9 out of 5 , MOS is 4.2 out of 5 (many less reviews obviously though because people have been watching and rating Begins for 8 years).
To compare it outside of DC movies, Iron Man 2 has a much higher critic score of 73%... but a lower audience score than MOS. It's "average rating" among critics is 6.7 out of 10, while MOS is 6.2 out of 10. And MOS has a higher average rating among fans.
To me what this means that its dividing people. People who don't like it are not giving it forgiving reviews, and people who like it... really like it.
But less than they thought it would. A steeper second week decline than projected. And a steep second week drop off usually says something about enthusiasm and word of mouth.
The drop was larger than expected, but I submit that its because of the extremely fierce competition, as the writer notes in the beginning paragraph. As an example of how fierce the competition was, Batman Begins opened during the same weekend in 2005. Now, obviously, prices have changed, but allow me to show something. The two new openings against Man of Steel generated $148 million domestically. During Begins' 2nd weekend, the entire top 10 was only $122 million.
And its also a result of a huge, huge opening. For instance, the two movies Ray compares it to, The Incredible Hulk and Green Lantern, Man of Steel's opening was almost as high as those movies' entire domestic run. That's big. Its drop was always going to be big. Ray at boxofficemojo.com, while noting the decrease, does not make any statements about bad word of mouth. Indeed, he takes the time to note that Monsters U had an "A" CinemaScore rating, which he says suggests it will generate good word of mouth. Man of Steel has an "A-"; CinemaScore in general is what points to the "word of mouth".
In addition, despite the much talked about low RT score and certain highly publicised people who disliked the movie, obviously there are fans who didn't like it, but many many people did. That's what I'm saying with the divided opinion. For instance It has the 2nd highest Metacritic score among users. Higher than all the other movies currently in theaters except for one that I've never heard of.
That's all I'm saying. Not that anyone has to like it. Not that the money its making proves its good, because it doesn't. Just that among the audience, the general reception is that yes, some people really didn't like it, but many others really, really did. And that the steep drop is mostly attributed to hot competition, which won't be getting any lighter this week.