I loved the Red Zone story and this is where Coipel became my favorite artist. I remember it being hard to read the scenes with Red Skull and Black Panther...the brutality and racism..Red Skull was just nasty.
Johns also had the "sex" issue #71.
The Chuck Austen issues were painful and I remember wondering why Marvel kept giving him work..high profile work at that..I figure he had pictures of somebody.
Oh, and Hickman's Avengers is "mind blowingly" awesome.
Thanks for reminding me about Hickman...
New "Illuminati" Avengers: It took me a while to realize what really drew me to this title.
This team of characters are all teetering on the edge. Namor said it to Black Panther in the Infinity Epilogue. Both of them have hit rock bottom, both lost their Kingdoms (Atlantis destroyed, Black Panther exiled for hanging with Namor), Black Bolt lost his Kingdom and Iron Man will not be able to balance both the Avengers and the Illuminati. We know very soon Bruce Banner will figure out what he's been up to and wait until Cap finds out what they did to him...
Then we've got Dr. Strange who thinks that he's not doing enough and is reaching into both unexplored and forbidden territory that will eventually bite him in the ass. The only person I'm not sure about is Beast. He doesn't seem to have much to lose...maybe Brand? Then again I don't think we've seen her in the series yet.
But yes I'm loving Hickman, my co-host has a realistic critique that Hickman isn't really exploring the main characters but using the characters to drive the story. It has merit, I do think he leans towards the newer Avengers he has brought in since the big names already have their own books. I think I read that Avengers World will be more character driven stories.
And then there is Black Swan. She's such a cool, mysterious character. I love how she seems to know so much and almost finds what The Illuminati are doing amusing.
As has been typically the case with me, I've only read Avengers sporadically during this era. I did pick up a lot of the Kang War storyline at the time and thought that was fun, along with that Geoff Johns issue that featured Hank & Jan's Size-Changing Sexy Time Antics (Sayeth Marvel, "Um, no... he was just, um, giving her a massage! Yeah, that's it. Just a massage. That is all."), and the odd Bendis issue here and there in the wake of Disassembled and New Avengers. I thought parts of it were cool, but a lot of what was going on didn't appeal to me, particularly the early Bendis stuff with that infamous fight in the first story arc of New Avengers that actually took place off panel, and then all of that stuff with the Sentry, who might be the one Big 2 character I dislike more than Gambit and Red Tornado.
Except for Jeff Parker's Age of the Sentry mini-series, which recast Sentry (and a lot of the rest of the Marvel Universe) as DC Silver Age pastiche, which was awesome. Seriously one of the very best Marvel mini-series of the last 20 years at least. Read it, especially for the likes of characters like Ursus the Ultra-Bear and Harrison Oogar, the Caveman of Wall Street.
But I digress.
One book from this era I did enjoy, though, was Dan Slott's run on Mighty Avengers. Awesomely oddball line-up of characters, each with their own quirks and foibles, all sorts of bizarre situations, and by far my favorite characterization ever of Hank Pym, who may have been declared Earth's Scientist Supreme by Eternity (or else it was a hoax by Loki). And with the "bigger on the inside" nature of the Infinite Avengers mansion and his sonic screwdriver-esque multi-tool, Slott sort of cast Hank as the Doctor, and it worked really well (and his costume in his Jan-tribute identity of the Wasp was really cool). Plus he was the only character who could ever put Hercules's pal Amadeus Cho in his place, and there was all that weirdness where he kind of had a thing going on with Jocasta since she was based on Jan's brain patterns, which weirded everyone out. Man, all kinds of good going on in that run, it was a damn shame it had to end.
Man, all kinds of good going on in that run, it was a damn shame it had to end.
I agree...blame it on Slott taking over Spider-Man full time. What really sucks is how Marvel let all that get thrown out the window with Avengers A.I. It doesn't feel like the same Hank.
I'm about 90 minutes into the episode so far. 2002/2003 was when I got back into comics after having been away for about 7 years. I have some strong recollection of really liking what I was seeing in the Avengers leading up to Disassembled - especially the Red Zone story.
Very much agree with James regarding Bendis' use of Scarlet Witch.
I was initially on board with New Avengers due to much love being offered by some friends but never liked the team - I've never been a Spider-man fan, Cap was right about Wolverine and I really don't care how much Bendis loves them Spider-Woman and Luke Cage are Avengers Reserve at best to me. All that said, I was there until they brought in the Sentry. I'd already had the Sentry trade inflicted upon me and loathed everything about the book so for him to make an appearance was the end of my interest, though I think that I stuck around for a few issues being perplexed at all the love that Bendis was getting and assuming that I just needed to wait for it to kick in (I recall at least a couple of issues with Ronin). At that point, I pretty much washed my hands of Marvel which was pretty painful given my long love of the characters and especially of the classic Bronze age Avengers
I've tried to stick my toe back in a time or two, but the characters that I'm most fond of seem to be featured in books with art that I don't care for while the art that I prefer features characters that leave me flat. I will say that I'm pleased that Bendis has moved on to other things.
Is it fair to say that people who read the Avengers pre-Bendis hate what he did? Because it seems like everyone who came on post-Bendis loved what he did.
Is it fair to say that people who read the Avengers pre-Bendis hate what he did? Because it seems like everyone who came on post-Bendis loved what he did.
I don't think that that's necessarily true. The people that I had endorsing Bendis to me had been reading Avengers for as long as I had. There was also a previously developed appreciation for Bendis through both Powers and Daredevil.
To be fair, I really enjoyed what I've read of Powers, so it's not necessarily Bendis that I don't like. I think it's what Bendis does in the Marvel Universe (I can't speak to his work on Daredevil) that I don't like,
Is it fair to say that people who read the Avengers pre-Bendis hate what he did? Because it seems like everyone who came on post-Bendis loved what he did.
I've been reading Avengers since Day One, and I was perfectly fine with Bendis. I admit that I didn't feel that way at the onset with the Disassembled arc, but he won me over after awhile.
I've never read one issue of Bendis' Avengers. I was on a LONG Hiatus from comics, and when I got back in, the Avengers where so damned different, I just stayed away from all of it. Daredevil? Spider-man? Dr. Strange? Wolverine? WTF???
But, the professor's enthusiasm for the material was
I'm going to remedy that ASAP in the great american tradition of going on a binge:
New Avengers Omnibus, Vol. 1 is now on order from Amazon.
While there is a thread for this I thought it'd be appropriate to mention that Comixology is currently having a .99 cent sale on the Busiek Avengers run (v2 1-55). Perfect timing for us spotlight listeners, no?
Is it fair to say that people who read the Avengers pre-Bendis hate what he did? Because it seems like everyone who came on post-Bendis loved what he did.
I came to avengers right around issue 15 of new avengers. I was never a fan before that, and I liked most of Bendis's run. I do think it drug on and there was a lot of time when things just were not happening (even if those moments tied into later stories). Overall I thought it was good comics.
I think one of the most interesting things to watch as his new avengers run progressed was the fan reaction turn on him/his writing. Bendis went from king-of-the-mountain (daredevil, ultimate spiderman, and first half of new avengers) to ughhh-it's-Bendis. It's tough to be successful and consistent. The Bendis era Avengers will be looked at more favorably as time progresses (go back and listen to all the podcasts after Civil War finished, there was a ton of negative backlash to issue 7/Civil War. Now, as it should have been then, it's one of the best Marvel events ever).
Is it fair to say that people who read the Avengers pre-Bendis hate what he did? Because it seems like everyone who came on post-Bendis loved what he did.
I came to avengers right around issue 15 of new avengers. I was never a fan before that, and I liked most of Bendis's run. I do think it drug on and there was a lot of time when things just were not happening (even if those moments tied into later stories). Overall I thought it was good comics.
I think one of the most interesting things to watch as his new avengers run progressed was the fan reaction turn on him/his writing. Bendis went from king-of-the-mountain (daredevil, ultimate spiderman, and first half of new avengers) to ughhh-it's-Bendis. It's tough to be successful and consistent. The Bendis era Avengers will be looked at more favorably as time progresses (go back and listen to all the podcasts after Civil War finished, there was a ton of negative backlash to issue 7/Civil War. Now, as it should have been then, it's one of the best Marvel events ever).
LOL, I knew that post would get a lot of people to comment...
Funny thing is there was times when I felt it was time to jump ship and then Bendis would pull something else that kept me intrigued. He knew how to make me care about the characters.
Okay, I probably have EVERY issue of this run, only broken until recently. Busiek: Awesome run! I didn't even mind Triathlon and the Triune Understanding thing. I like it when a writer can develop story ideas from real world topics. Geoff Johns: Yeah, I thought this was interesting too! Austen: Yep, pretty bad, but I stuck it out through them. Bendis: Hmm, I'm one of the folks who didn't mind what Bendis did with the Avengers. I found it all to be quite entertaining especially when compared to the dullness of a few of the previous issues. As for Civil War: Mark Millar wrote that.... I don't really like the Hickman run...but I read it occasionally. Like Shane, I've sort of switched to the X-Men.
Just caught up to that. That death actually hurt and reeked of bendis just putting all the toys away. Especially since Strange was made sorcerer supreme again.
I think it should be noted that during Children's Crusade, the Wanda Maximoff that Hawkeye hooked up with in Avengers 26 was revealed to be a robot created by Dr Doom.
I know Doom rules a country and all, but if he really wanted to rake in the money, all he’d have to do is mass-produce those robots and put them on the market.
Just saying.
Reminds of the Doctor Doom vs Albert Wesker rap battle.
"Doom runs a country, bitch. A nation of slaves. Dig you a grave. I make Umbrella look like welfare, minimum wage. Doom is getting enraged,I come harder! I killed my ex-girlfriend and turned her into a suit of armor!"
Going back and re-listening to these Avengers episodes, my mileage really starts varying here. Jamie D. comes off like an old curmudgeon saying Busiek and Perez wouldn't be considered a "classic" run, mostly because he doesn't like a character he wasn't supposed to like. Johns's Avengers run has great art, but the stories are pretty mediocre, especially the ret-conned, deconstruction for kids "Search for She-Hulk," where we find out fear drives her power (see Green Lantern stories for more of that). At least the art was good. Austen's run was abysmal, but what did anyone expect? Bizarre to hear such non-stop praise for mediocre work from Johns.
Bendis is a mixed bag: A:D is poor, out-of-character junk with pretty art, mostly useful for getting all the pieces in place for Bendis's run. He does do a good job centering the book as important within the broader universe, and tells big, JLA by Morrison style stories, and to Marvel's credit they really go all out as far as putting top artists on the book, but Bendis struggles with individual characterization, as everyone makes Spidey quips, and Bendis doesn't find time to characterize Ronin/Echo (or Hawkeye Ronin), the Morrison Mar-Vell, Spider-Woman, Storm, or basically any other character that's part of the team but isn't in their own book (except Luke Cage and Jessica Jones). It was also plagued by really bad "writing for the trade" padding, but that's just endemic of comics in the mid-2000's. Mighty Avengers is just a mess from the word go, immediately getting caught up in crossovers and rotating art teams, and again, Bendis can't find the time to characterize most of the cast, even with prominent thought bubbles returning. And Secret Invasion, which is sold as having been planned all along, is just so poorly paced and the story so poorly told, it becomes readily apparent that Bendis was more excited to do the Dark Avengers storyline rather than focus on the current crossover.
I think it should be noted that during Children's Crusade, the Wanda Maximoff that Hawkeye hooked up with in Avengers 26 was revealed to be a robot created by Dr Doom.
I know Doom rules a country and all, but if he really wanted to rake in the money, all he’d have to do is mass-produce those robots and put them on the market.
Just saying.
Reminds of the Doctor Doom vs Albert Wesker rap battle.
"Doom runs a country, bitch. A nation of slaves. Dig you a grave. I make Umbrella look like welfare, minimum wage. Doom is getting enraged,I come harder! I killed my ex-girlfriend and turned her into a suit of armor!"
Comments
Johns also had the "sex" issue #71.
The Chuck Austen issues were painful and I remember wondering why Marvel kept giving him work..high profile work at that..I figure he had pictures of somebody.
LMAO I remember hearing about that!!!
New "Illuminati" Avengers: It took me a while to realize what really drew me to this title.
This team of characters are all teetering on the edge. Namor said it to Black Panther in the Infinity Epilogue. Both of them have hit rock bottom, both lost their Kingdoms (Atlantis destroyed, Black Panther exiled for hanging with Namor), Black Bolt lost his Kingdom and Iron Man will not be able to balance both the Avengers and the Illuminati. We know very soon Bruce Banner will figure out what he's been up to and wait until Cap finds out what they did to him...
Then we've got Dr. Strange who thinks that he's not doing enough and is reaching into both unexplored and forbidden territory that will eventually bite him in the ass. The only person I'm not sure about is Beast. He doesn't seem to have much to lose...maybe Brand? Then again I don't think we've seen her in the series yet.
But yes I'm loving Hickman, my co-host has a realistic critique that Hickman isn't really exploring the main characters but using the characters to drive the story. It has merit, I do think he leans towards the newer Avengers he has brought in since the big names already have their own books. I think I read that Avengers World will be more character driven stories.
Except for Jeff Parker's Age of the Sentry mini-series, which recast Sentry (and a lot of the rest of the Marvel Universe) as DC Silver Age pastiche, which was awesome. Seriously one of the very best Marvel mini-series of the last 20 years at least. Read it, especially for the likes of characters like Ursus the Ultra-Bear and Harrison Oogar, the Caveman of Wall Street.
But I digress.
One book from this era I did enjoy, though, was Dan Slott's run on Mighty Avengers. Awesomely oddball line-up of characters, each with their own quirks and foibles, all sorts of bizarre situations, and by far my favorite characterization ever of Hank Pym, who may have been declared Earth's Scientist Supreme by Eternity (or else it was a hoax by Loki). And with the "bigger on the inside" nature of the Infinite Avengers mansion and his sonic screwdriver-esque multi-tool, Slott sort of cast Hank as the Doctor, and it worked really well (and his costume in his Jan-tribute identity of the Wasp was really cool). Plus he was the only character who could ever put Hercules's pal Amadeus Cho in his place, and there was all that weirdness where he kind of had a thing going on with Jocasta since she was based on Jan's brain patterns, which weirded everyone out. Man, all kinds of good going on in that run, it was a damn shame it had to end.
Very much agree with James regarding Bendis' use of Scarlet Witch.
I was initially on board with New Avengers due to much love being offered by some friends but never liked the team - I've never been a Spider-man fan, Cap was right about Wolverine and I really don't care how much Bendis loves them Spider-Woman and Luke Cage are Avengers Reserve at best to me. All that said, I was there until they brought in the Sentry. I'd already had the Sentry trade inflicted upon me and loathed everything about the book so for him to make an appearance was the end of my interest, though I think that I stuck around for a few issues being perplexed at all the love that Bendis was getting and assuming that I just needed to wait for it to kick in (I recall at least a couple of issues with Ronin). At that point, I pretty much washed my hands of Marvel which was pretty painful given my long love of the characters and especially of the classic Bronze age Avengers
I've tried to stick my toe back in a time or two, but the characters that I'm most fond of seem to be featured in books with art that I don't care for while the art that I prefer features characters that leave me flat. I will say that I'm pleased that Bendis has moved on to other things.
To be fair, I really enjoyed what I've read of Powers, so it's not necessarily Bendis that I don't like. I think it's what Bendis does in the Marvel Universe (I can't speak to his work on Daredevil) that I don't like,
I've never read one issue of Bendis' Avengers. I was on a LONG Hiatus from comics, and when I got back in, the Avengers where so damned different, I just stayed away from all of it. Daredevil? Spider-man? Dr. Strange? Wolverine? WTF???
But, the professor's enthusiasm for the material was
I'm going to remedy that ASAP in the great american tradition of going on a binge:
New Avengers Omnibus, Vol. 1 is now on order from Amazon.
BOOYAH!
I think one of the most interesting things to watch as his new avengers run progressed was the fan reaction turn on him/his writing. Bendis went from king-of-the-mountain (daredevil, ultimate spiderman, and first half of new avengers) to ughhh-it's-Bendis. It's tough to be successful and consistent. The Bendis era Avengers will be looked at more favorably as time progresses (go back and listen to all the podcasts after Civil War finished, there was a ton of negative backlash to issue 7/Civil War. Now, as it should have been then, it's one of the best Marvel events ever).
Funny thing is there was times when I felt it was time to jump ship and then Bendis would pull something else that kept me intrigued. He knew how to make me care about the characters.
Busiek: Awesome run! I didn't even mind Triathlon and the Triune Understanding thing. I like it when a writer can develop story ideas from real world topics.
Geoff Johns: Yeah, I thought this was interesting too!
Austen: Yep, pretty bad, but I stuck it out through them.
Bendis: Hmm, I'm one of the folks who didn't mind what Bendis did with the Avengers. I found it all to be quite entertaining especially when compared to the dullness of a few of the previous issues. As for Civil War: Mark Millar wrote that....
I don't really like the Hickman run...but I read it occasionally. Like Shane, I've sort of switched to the X-Men.
"Doom runs a country, bitch. A nation of slaves. Dig you a grave. I make Umbrella look like welfare, minimum wage. Doom is getting enraged,I come harder! I killed my ex-girlfriend and turned her into a suit of armor!"
Bendis is a mixed bag: A:D is poor, out-of-character junk with pretty art, mostly useful for getting all the pieces in place for Bendis's run. He does do a good job centering the book as important within the broader universe, and tells big, JLA by Morrison style stories, and to Marvel's credit they really go all out as far as putting top artists on the book, but Bendis struggles with individual characterization, as everyone makes Spidey quips, and Bendis doesn't find time to characterize Ronin/Echo (or Hawkeye Ronin), the Morrison Mar-Vell, Spider-Woman, Storm, or basically any other character that's part of the team but isn't in their own book (except Luke Cage and Jessica Jones). It was also plagued by really bad "writing for the trade" padding, but that's just endemic of comics in the mid-2000's. Mighty Avengers is just a mess from the word go, immediately getting caught up in crossovers and rotating art teams, and again, Bendis can't find the time to characterize most of the cast, even with prominent thought bubbles returning. And Secret Invasion, which is sold as having been planned all along, is just so poorly paced and the story so poorly told, it becomes readily apparent that Bendis was more excited to do the Dark Avengers storyline rather than focus on the current crossover.
LOL NICE!
One of my favorites....
Rick Grimes (Walking Dead) Vs Walter White (Breaking Bad)
SPOILERS!!!