If he's a bona-fide spy, I think killing people has to be on the table. Which will make it fun if he ever has to do a job in Gotham. I hear the guy with the pointy ears working there has a thing against that kinda stuff... :)
I know that it's old DC continuity, but Dick was a cop in Bludhaven before, so he had to have and use a gun then. I don't think it was made to be an issue for him back then, but I could be wrong. So for me, it's not a taboo to have him using a gun.
I know that it's old DC continuity, but Dick was a cop in Bludhaven before, so he had to have and use a gun then. I don't think it was made to be an issue for him back then, but I could be wrong. So for me, it's not a taboo to have him using a gun.
I had a long tirade typed up and then somehow erased it due to clumsy fingers on a keyboard. This is the gist: the roughly 5 year DC superhero history is bullshit, at least in terms of (accepted) Batman history. Even when you take Tim Drake out of the Robin equation, 5 years doesn't even work with Damien in the picture, and if you accept Damien, you have to accept how he was brought into the Batman world, which depends on further Batman history, which means that Batman couldn't have banged Talia, got her pregged, and had a 10 year old assassin within the course of the 5 years since Batman 1st appeared. Hell, even if you said that Batman appear 5 years BEFORE the rest of the heroes in the DC New 52, that doesn't give enough time because it doesn't account for Dick losing his parents, being taken in, trained, and his dickload of adventures as Robin before becoming an independent woman.
The point of all of that was: if DC decides to use Dick's history as a Bludhaven cop, this screws their continuity (at least in terms of Batman) even more.
PS - I'm not saying this as a DC Negative Nancy (despite what it may seem), I LOVE the DCU and it's characters; just something that came to mind.
I had a long tirade typed up and then somehow erased it due to clumsy fingers on a keyboard. This is the gist: the roughly 5 year DC superhero history is bullshit, at least in terms of (accepted) Batman history. Even when you take Tim Drake out of the Robin equation, 5 years doesn't even work with Damien in the picture, and if you accept Damien, you have to accept how he was brought into the Batman world, which depends on further Batman history, which means that Batman couldn't have banged Talia, got her pregged, and had a 10 year old assassin within the course of the 5 years since Batman 1st appeared. Hell, even if you said, that Batman appear 5 years BEFORE the rest of the heroes in the DC New 52, that doesn't give enough time because it doesn't account for Dick losing his parents, being taken in, trained and his dickload of adventures as Robin before becoming an independent woman.
The point of all of that was: if DC decides to use Dick's history as a Bludhaven cop, this screws their continuity (at least in terms of Batman) even more.
PS - I'm not saying this as a DC Negative Nancy (despite what it may seem), I LOVE the DCU and it's characters; just something that came to mind.
The only thing I'll throw into the ring is about the training issue. Technically, neither Bruce nor Dick had daytime jobs. They could train all the time, which means it wouldn't take yearS. Look at pro-athletes. They train/practice their craft all the time.
This was the kind of idea I was thinking when they first announced the new 52.
This.
(As the kids say)
I am game for them trying new things with the character. Taking risks. This looks like that. Are all new things or risks a good idea? Of course not. But I think they may as well try. I've never been a Nightwing reader, but my sense is that part of the premise is always that he is trying to define himself, in his adulthood, as different than Batman. Well, this seems like that, more than times when Dick is just being a Bat-Family member patrolling a sister city and waiting for Bruce's call. In this case, Dick is off in a different genre.
If the creative team is good (i may have missed if the creators have already been announced) I might give it a try.
The only thing I would throw in about there not being a way for Batman and Talia to have a 10 year old kid in the 5 year DC history is that Damian was grown older in an incubator of sorts. I don't believe he grew up the way a normal 10year old does....which is to say not over the course of 10 years. I don't like that DC put this 5 or 6 year timeline on their characters either. I think they shot themselves in the foot with that, but I just glaze over that when I'm reading a cool story, which is what I hope this will be.
I'm not sure if DC is going to reference Dick being a cop in his past, but for me it's more that, even if that doesn't count, it's not jarring to me to see Dick use a gun because of that previous dimension world.
I do think that slowly but surely DC overall is easing back into stories, personalities, and characters that are reminiscent of the old DC. Yes, they still throw in curveballs here and there, but for the most part, I feel like they are getting their legs back under them on most titles and it feels more and more like the universe I have always enjoyed reading. But that might just be me.
I don't think this title will last long, at least not in its current concept, but it won't have anything to do with if it is good or not. I just think many people will pass it by. I know I'll be reading it, and hope it's amazing.
@Royal_Lantern I will agree that DC may have wanted to not name a specific number ("Five years later") given how much a lot of their readers seem to use that to make themselves unhappy. It seems that having a quantitative detail like that has armed those who want to pull the strings of the make believe apart with a precise tool to do so.
But, that said, I think it comes down to what we as readers choose to do or not do. Suspension of disbelief comes with the territory of the superhero genre. And we can either choose to participate by letting some things slide, or we can put time and effort (and math!) into determining why it all can't work.
I'm with you that, if the story is cool, I couldn't care less if the math of it makes sense.
And it is not like the passage of time as well as what is or isn't possible in five years is a problem unique to the New 52 DCU.
Think of the MU. A place that has never had an official big reboot. Marvel books, from the beginning, have incorporated real world events and historical figures. My impression is that they did that more often than the DCU (but I will admit that I have not read enough of the early post-Crisis DCU books that I might be wrong on that.)
The fact alone that Marvel usually-- always?-- has the President of the US in the MU be the real one contemporary to when the books are published, and not a fictional one, has been one of the clearest challenges to their timeline. Cap quit being Cap because of Nixon. And at one point a toxin turned Ronald Regan into a snake man and he had to punch him in the face. Technically, for those who want to get technical, those stories are still in continuity. Which means that Cap has been out of the ice THAT long.
Fantastic Four #1, also technically still cannon, makes it clear that their stolen rocket trip into space is to try to beat the Russians into space. You know what I mean?
Marvel soft reboots character origins all the time to try to keep most of them seeming like they are in their 20s or 30s. Punisher now served in a desert conflict (I think they have never named which one) instead of Vietnam. And Tony Stark was now abducted in the desert instead of in Korea, etc.
Marvel may be wise enough to usually not give figures (e.g. Cap saying something like 'when the Avengers found me 7 years ago'), there are still PLENTY of things we have to let slide as readers.
And why not? Why not participate in a way that lets you stay present and enjoy the book in front of you, you know what I mean?
And, of course, it may be that people are seizing upon the x amount of Robins in y years thing because the larger issue is that they don't actually enjoy the story in front of them. I get that. But let's be clear that the fuzzy historical math and passage of time in shared universe comics is a very old and very established convention. This is not some big, new ask that the DC New 52 is making of the readership.
But let's be clear that the fuzzy historical math and passage of time in shared universe comics is a very old and very established convention. This is not some big, new ask that the DC New 52 is making of the readership.
With one caveat: the Marvel Universe, not having any major reboots, is something that has been rolling along since the beginning, and readers have experienced the events you refer to as they happened. The New52 at DC was the latest of their major reboots and we are simply told that everything from Superman's first public appearance until the first New52 storylines premiered were crammed into a five year space. It's a little harder to accept when done that way. The math doesn't seem to work very well.
(Oddly enough, the math probably wouldn't work for Marvel either if we stop to actually think about and work it out -- but it has the illusion of function because we were there to witness it along the way, and we don't need to think very hard about it.)
I'm with you that, if the story is cool, I couldn't care less if the math of it makes sense.
Hey, you have to suspend belief in all sorts of laws of physics, etc., just to buy into the concept of superheroes to begin with, so defying the space-time continuum or aging process just sorta comes with the territory in my book.
But let's be clear that the fuzzy historical math and passage of time in shared universe comics is a very old and very established convention. This is not some big, new ask that the DC New 52 is making of the readership.
With one caveat: the Marvel Universe, not having any major reboots, is something that has been rolling along since the beginning, and readers have experienced the events you refer to as they happened. The New52 at DC was the latest of their major reboots and we are simply told that everything from Superman's first public appearance until the first New52 storylines premiered were crammed into a five year space. It's a little harder to accept when done that way. The math doesn't seem to work very well.
(Oddly enough, the math probably wouldn't work for Marvel either if we stop to actually think about and work it out -- but it has the illusion of function because we were there to witness it along the way, and we don't need to think very hard about it.)
Sure. But we can just as easily choose to accept and not think too hard about the way time looks in the New 52. Sure, it may deliver all at once, but why should we expect that the timelines are realistic anymore than we expect the amount of things Peter Parker got up to in high school and college (or that the Fantastic Four got up to during the time their children were young) to fit into that small amount of years?
Whether it is being delivered a new status quo, or the ongoing passage of time, we as readers basically choose whether we put our participation into the acceptance of it or the negation of it.
Wait- that's a fan made poster, right? There is a Legendary films logo in the corner. There would be no reason why that would be in a promo for this upcoming Nightwing comic series.
Comments
The gun was always a last resort for him, but he also excelled in marksmanship.
My guess is that will likely be a direction they'd follow with him as a spy, as well.
The point of all of that was: if DC decides to use Dick's history as a Bludhaven cop, this screws their continuity (at least in terms of Batman) even more.
PS - I'm not saying this as a DC Negative Nancy (despite what it may seem), I LOVE the DCU and it's characters; just something that came to mind.
M
(As the kids say)
I am game for them trying new things with the character. Taking risks. This looks like that. Are all new things or risks a good idea? Of course not. But I think they may as well try. I've never been a Nightwing reader, but my sense is that part of the premise is always that he is trying to define himself, in his adulthood, as different than Batman. Well, this seems like that, more than times when Dick is just being a Bat-Family member patrolling a sister city and waiting for Bruce's call. In this case, Dick is off in a different genre.
If the creative team is good (i may have missed if the creators have already been announced) I might give it a try.
I'm not sure if DC is going to reference Dick being a cop in his past, but for me it's more that, even if that doesn't count, it's not jarring to me to see Dick use a gun because of that previous dimension world.
I do think that slowly but surely DC overall is easing back into stories, personalities, and characters that are reminiscent of the old DC. Yes, they still throw in curveballs here and there, but for the most part, I feel like they are getting their legs back under them on most titles and it feels more and more like the universe I have always enjoyed reading. But that might just be me.
I don't think this title will last long, at least not in its current concept, but it won't have anything to do with if it is good or not. I just think many people will pass it by. I know I'll be reading it, and hope it's amazing.
But, that said, I think it comes down to what we as readers choose to do or not do. Suspension of disbelief comes with the territory of the superhero genre. And we can either choose to participate by letting some things slide, or we can put time and effort (and math!) into determining why it all can't work.
I'm with you that, if the story is cool, I couldn't care less if the math of it makes sense.
And it is not like the passage of time as well as what is or isn't possible in five years is a problem unique to the New 52 DCU.
Think of the MU. A place that has never had an official big reboot. Marvel books, from the beginning, have incorporated real world events and historical figures. My impression is that they did that more often than the DCU (but I will admit that I have not read enough of the early post-Crisis DCU books that I might be wrong on that.)
The fact alone that Marvel usually-- always?-- has the President of the US in the MU be the real one contemporary to when the books are published, and not a fictional one, has been one of the clearest challenges to their timeline. Cap quit being Cap because of Nixon. And at one point a toxin turned Ronald Regan into a snake man and he had to punch him in the face. Technically, for those who want to get technical, those stories are still in continuity. Which means that Cap has been out of the ice THAT long.
Fantastic Four #1, also technically still cannon, makes it clear that their stolen rocket trip into space is to try to beat the Russians into space. You know what I mean?
Marvel soft reboots character origins all the time to try to keep most of them seeming like they are in their 20s or 30s. Punisher now served in a desert conflict (I think they have never named which one) instead of Vietnam. And Tony Stark was now abducted in the desert instead of in Korea, etc.
Marvel may be wise enough to usually not give figures (e.g. Cap saying something like 'when the Avengers found me 7 years ago'), there are still PLENTY of things we have to let slide as readers.
And why not? Why not participate in a way that lets you stay present and enjoy the book in front of you, you know what I mean?
And, of course, it may be that people are seizing upon the x amount of Robins in y years thing because the larger issue is that they don't actually enjoy the story in front of them. I get that. But let's be clear that the fuzzy historical math and passage of time in shared universe comics is a very old and very established convention. This is not some big, new ask that the DC New 52 is making of the readership.
(Oddly enough, the math probably wouldn't work for Marvel either if we stop to actually think about and work it out -- but it has the illusion of function because we were there to witness it along the way, and we don't need to think very hard about it.)
Whether it is being delivered a new status quo, or the ongoing passage of time, we as readers basically choose whether we put our participation into the acceptance of it or the negation of it.
unless it's a #1 issue of a brand new series with a foil variant cover. :)
Also, this is CLEARLY the Joseph Gordon-Levitt version of Nightwing, so he used to be a cop, right? He's probably used a pistol plenty of times.
M