Since Nightwing is was my favorite character (and costume), I absolutely will check it out and give it an honest chance, although I'm not happy about the change. These types of books rarely make it. I think that Nightwing has grown to the point where he's a fully developed character in the right writer's hands, and I'd like to see him hold the same place in the DC universe that Daredevil does at Marvel.
Part of the problem with Nightwing in the DCU is the muddled backstory, and the loss of his strong relationships.
Pre-Flashpoint, I like to think of Dick as having every hero in the DCU in his utility belt.
In the post-Frank Miller, Pre-Flashpoint era, Batman was respected by the others, but Nightwing was respected and liked.
Like most of the legacy characters, post-Flashpoint, he's just a name and a costume, but what made the character special has been lost.
I will be surprised if this turn saves the character, but if it turns out to be great, I'll be happy to pick up the trade.
I've gone from DC being the vast bulk of my DCBS orders to nothing that I'm currently following since I've gotten back into monthly orders in the past few months, but this looks like a pretty interesting idea as well as a jumping-back-on point for somebody who hasn't followed the New 52 in the past year or so. I think I'll give it a chance.
Because I'm an idiot though, I didn't even notice there was a link embedded in the original post. Appears we can add "Spyral" to the list:
"Grayson's new employer is the international spy agency Spyral, an organization created by writer Grant Morrison for his Batman, Incorporated series. King sees it as representative of today's intelligence community: They're the people who stop bad guys from doing bad things, yet to do that, they employ questionable tactics such as mind erosion"
Because I'm an idiot though, I didn't even notice there was a link embedded in the original post. Appears we can add "Spyral" to the list:
"Grayson's new employer is the international spy agency Spyral, an organization created by writer Grant Morrison for his Batman, Incorporated series. King sees it as representative of today's intelligence community: They're the people who stop bad guys from doing bad things, yet to do that, they employ questionable tactics such as mind erosion"
"Spyral"
Nice, innocuous name.
No wonder they hire a guy whose identity has been revealed worldwide as an undercover operative.
Dude if you don't read a lot of DC there is no shame. I didn't really get into DC until the early-mid 2000s. I just started picking up series that people talked about. Then I ended up getting a lot of early post-Crisis DC like Justice League, Byrne Superman, Perez Wonder Woman, anything with John Ostrander's name on it, and some awesome gemsfrom the 90s (the Ray, Ostrander's Spectre, Starman to name a few).
Is this an Elseworlds title? Is there some kind of clever point to this alteration? Will he be interacting with Batman at all? Do we care? Can DC do a non-superhero book better than Image?
If you answered "no" to two or more of the above questions, then this book is probably not for you. First impression is that this is more weak tea from DC; I'll stick with the awesome books I've been raving about. If the reviews are good, I'll consider a trade.
Isn't it way too premature to say this book isn't "awesome"? You've asked questions that have yet to be answered (especially since it hasn't been released) to completely dismiss the book.
And you only read books that get good reviews?
M
I'd say it's premature to say it is "awesome", but all I gave was my first impression based on the solicit. Isn't that what we do every time we go through a Previews catalogue?
I only pick up books I originally passed on if I start hearing good things about them. Is that unusual?
Then I misread your post. It read as though you won't read this book because its not "awesome." I never said it would be awesome. I just think its too soon to say its awesome or not awesome.
For full disclosure, I haven't bought a DC book in almost 8 years. It's not to say anything done during that time wasn't 'awesome', just hasn't interested me.
Marvel too, actually. This new Moon Knight series is the 1st series I'll be getting since the last MK series.
And again, I misread your post; I read it as you only read the books that get positive reviews.
Is this an Elseworlds title? Is there some kind of clever point to this alteration? Will he be interacting with Batman at all? Do we care? Can DC do a non-superhero book better than Image?
If you answered "no" to two or more of the above questions, then this book is probably not for you. First impression is that this is more weak tea from DC; I'll stick with the awesome books I've been raving about. If the reviews are good, I'll consider a trade.
Isn't it way too premature to say this book isn't "awesome"? You've asked questions that have yet to be answered (especially since it hasn't been released) to completely dismiss the book.
And you only read books that get good reviews?
M
I'd say it's premature to say it is "awesome", but all I gave was my first impression based on the solicit. Isn't that what we do every time we go through a Previews catalogue?
I only pick up books I originally passed on if I start hearing good things about them. Is that unusual?
Apparently, it's bitchy wanking.
That doesn't interest me. I just don't think its giving something a chance by questioning if there is a point or debunking it as not "awesome" before its even released (which is how I guess I read it)
I think this is a great idea, as Matt said he's been a cop before, so a Superhero/Cop going a little more 007 makes perfect sense. If they made this character up completely new no one would ever buy it, maybe it would last 6 issues. This way you can get the Bat-people to try it, and hopefully it's very espionage in theme instead of capes. I haven't been reading Nightwing, but I'll give this a try!
Is this an Elseworlds title? Is there some kind of clever point to this alteration? Will he be interacting with Batman at all? Do we care? Can DC do a non-superhero book better than Image?
If you answered "no" to two or more of the above questions, then this book is probably not for you. First impression is that this is more weak tea from DC; I'll stick with the awesome books I've been raving about. If the reviews are good, I'll consider a trade.
Isn't it way too premature to say this book isn't "awesome"? You've asked questions that have yet to be answered (especially since it hasn't been released) to completely dismiss the book.
And you only read books that get good reviews?
M
I'd say it's premature to say it is "awesome", but all I gave was my first impression based on the solicit. Isn't that what we do every time we go through a Previews catalogue?
I only pick up books I originally passed on if I start hearing good things about them. Is that unusual?
Apparently, it's bitchy wanking.
That doesn't interest me. I just don't think its giving something a chance by questioning if there is a point or debunking it as not "awesome" before its even released (which is how I guess I read it)
M
Sorry, Matt, the "bitchy wanking" was not in reference to your comment.
Dude if you don't read a lot of DC there is no shame. I didn't really get into DC until the early-mid 2000s. I just started picking up series that people talked about. Then I ended up getting a lot of early post-Crisis DC like Justice League, Byrne Superman, Perez Wonder Woman, anything with John Ostrander's name on it, and some awesome gemsfrom the 90s (the Ray, Ostrander's Spectre, Starman to name a few).
I also didnt notice the link.
I returned to reading comics last year after a *cough* "multi-decade intermission" ( :-) ). So far, I've been reading almost exclusively Marvel books and, with the exception of the new "Royals Masters of War" series, have read no DC books. Was primarily a fan of their team books back in the day (JLA, JSA, Teen Titans, and anything involving Super Villain teams). Any recommendations for a good jumping-on point for books of that vein? The New 52 thread has me a bit leery of where DC stands right now. Doesn't seem to be getting many positive reviews.
Dude if you don't read a lot of DC there is no shame. I didn't really get into DC until the early-mid 2000s. I just started picking up series that people talked about. Then I ended up getting a lot of early post-Crisis DC like Justice League, Byrne Superman, Perez Wonder Woman, anything with John Ostrander's name on it, and some awesome gemsfrom the 90s (the Ray, Ostrander's Spectre, Starman to name a few).
I also didnt notice the link.
I returned to reading comics last year after a *cough* "multi-decade intermission" ( :-) ). So far, I've been reading almost exclusively Marvel books and, with the exception of the new "Royals Masters of War" series, have read no DC books. Was primarily a fan of their team books back in the day (JLA, JSA, Teen Titans, and anything involving Super Villain teams). Any recommendations for a good jumping-on point for books of that vein? The New 52 thread has me a bit leery of where DC stands right now. Doesn't seem to be getting many positive reviews.
Don't let what others(including myself) say about the New52 scare you away from trying it out. You may love it and that's all that matters.
I think it would be sweet if this title became a lead into Checkmate coming back with Grayson not necessarily leading it, but one of the key agents for it.
Is this an Elseworlds title? Is there some kind of clever point to this alteration? Will he be interacting with Batman at all? Do we care? Can DC do a non-superhero book better than Image?
If you answered "no" to two or more of the above questions, then this book is probably not for you. First impression is that this is more weak tea from DC; I'll stick with the awesome books I've been raving about. If the reviews are good, I'll consider a trade.
Isn't it way too premature to say this book isn't "awesome"? You've asked questions that have yet to be answered (especially since it hasn't been released) to completely dismiss the book.
And you only read books that get good reviews?
M
I'd say it's premature to say it is "awesome", but all I gave was my first impression based on the solicit. Isn't that what we do every time we go through a Previews catalogue?
I only pick up books I originally passed on if I start hearing good things about them. Is that unusual?
Apparently, it's bitchy wanking.
That doesn't interest me. I just don't think its giving something a chance by questioning if there is a point or debunking it as not "awesome" before its even released (which is how I guess I read it)
M
Sorry, Matt, the "bitchy wanking" was not in reference to your comment.
I think it would be sweet if this title became a lead into Checkmate coming back with Grayson not necessarily leading it, but one of the key agents for it.
That would be great. I would love to see that. Question: is Spyral the new Outsiders?
So is it only proper to respond to these sorts of threads with enthusiasm and a willingness to get onboard with whatever DC is promoting or is it still polite to not only respond negatively, but explain your dismissal? If I've missed a list of forum rules, please provide the link so I can promptly comply.
To reiterate, if I hear good things I will consider getting this in trade. At first glance, and for reasons previously stated, this is probably not for me.
Ha! I think I had started to respond to something of yours, and then responded to Mr Cosmic instead, but the reply box still had you as my quote source.
So is it only proper to respond to these sorts of threads with enthusiasm and a willingness to get onboard with whatever DC is promoting or is it still polite to not only respond negatively, but explain your dismissal? If I've missed a list of forum rules, please provide the link so I can promptly comply.
To reiterate, if I hear good things I will consider getting this in trade. At first glance, and for reasons previously stated, this is probably not for me.
It's not a rule anywhere about handing your payment to a cashier instead of just throwing it on the counter...but its better etiquette to do so.
I've found when people prematurely crap on something, its hard to get them to be objective when its actually released.
And if I'm bitching about Marvel's current direction, then it's no surprise I'm going to bitch about Marvel's upcoming stuff too.
There are a lot of upcoming books, shows, & movies I have reservations about. Whether they're something that ultimately grab my interest or not I don't/won't bash or dismiss them before or after they're released.
I think it would be sweet if this title became a lead into Checkmate coming back with Grayson not necessarily leading it, but one of the key agents for it.
Some of these threads have completely changed my mind about books I would have previously dismissed out of hand.
Others have confirmed my instincts.
Yet others have provided the opportunity for a good joke (or maybe just a joke).
All good reasons to participate as far as I'm concerned.
I agree. And @Matt, I hope nothing I said came across as "bashing", but if it did, I hope I've explained I'm only wanking...
And I get that if you're a Nightwing fan, you may be disappointed that I'm not hopeful about this series.
I actually, I'm not really interested in the book myself. I think what gets me is when people seem to treat something new as crap before it even arrives. Now, if its released and just not good (say, like the Catwoman movie), that's one thing...
Some of these threads have completely changed my mind about books I would have previously dismissed out of hand.
Others have confirmed my instincts.
Yet others have provided the opportunity for a good joke (or maybe just a joke).
All good reasons to participate as far as I'm concerned.
I agree. And @Matt, I hope nothing I said came across as "bashing", but if it did, I hope I've explained I'm only wanking...
And I get that if you're a Nightwing fan, you may be disappointed that I'm not hopeful about this series.
I actually, I'm not really interested in the book myself. I'm happy with the few titles I'm reading. I think what gets me is when people seem to treat something new as crap before it even arrives. Now, if its released and just not good (say, like the Catwoman movie), that's one thing...
M
Sad, thing is, nobody called it crap.
I used the thread as an excuse to flog my favorite-ever fan film, Chuck said he had zero interest, and somebody went apeshit.
Chuck said he had zero interest, and somebody went apeshit.
Well, it's difficult to tell when things started heading south on this thread, but, just spitballin' here, I'm thinkin' approx 8:13AM is as good a guess as any.
Comments
Pre-Flashpoint, I like to think of Dick as having every hero in the DCU in his utility belt.
In the post-Frank Miller, Pre-Flashpoint era, Batman was respected by the others, but Nightwing was respected and liked.
Like most of the legacy characters, post-Flashpoint, he's just a name and a costume, but what made the character special has been lost.
I will be surprised if this turn saves the character, but if it turns out to be great, I'll be happy to pick up the trade.
Because I'm an idiot though, I didn't even notice there was a link embedded in the original post. Appears we can add "Spyral" to the list:
"Grayson's new employer is the international spy agency Spyral, an organization created by writer Grant Morrison for his Batman, Incorporated series. King sees it as representative of today's intelligence community: They're the people who stop bad guys from doing bad things, yet to do that, they employ questionable tactics such as mind erosion"
Nice, innocuous name.
No wonder they hire a guy whose identity has been revealed worldwide as an undercover operative.
B-)
I didn't really get into DC until the early-mid 2000s. I just started picking up series that people talked about. Then I ended up getting a lot of early post-Crisis DC like Justice League, Byrne Superman, Perez Wonder Woman, anything with John Ostrander's name on it, and some awesome gemsfrom the 90s (the Ray, Ostrander's Spectre, Starman to name a few).
I also didnt notice the link.
For full disclosure, I haven't bought a DC book in almost 8 years. It's not to say anything done during that time wasn't 'awesome', just hasn't interested me.
Marvel too, actually. This new Moon Knight series is the 1st series I'll be getting since the last MK series.
And again, I misread your post; I read it as you only read the books that get positive reviews.
M
M
Don't let what others(including myself) say about the New52 scare you away from trying it out. You may love it and that's all that matters.
M
M
Question: is Spyral the new Outsiders?
M
To reiterate, if I hear good things I will consider getting this in trade. At first glance, and for reasons previously stated, this is probably not for me.
*awkward silence now gets awkwarder and silenter*
I've found when people prematurely crap on something, its hard to get them to be objective when its actually released.
And if I'm bitching about Marvel's current direction, then it's no surprise I'm going to bitch about Marvel's upcoming stuff too.
There are a lot of upcoming books, shows, & movies I have reservations about. Whether they're something that ultimately grab my interest or not I don't/won't bash or dismiss them before or after they're released.
M
Others have confirmed my instincts.
Yet others have provided the opportunity for a good joke (or maybe just a joke).
All good reasons to participate as far as I'm concerned.
And I get that if you're a Nightwing fan, you may be disappointed that I'm not hopeful about this series.
M
I used the thread as an excuse to flog my favorite-ever fan film, Chuck said he had zero interest, and somebody went apeshit.