So is this movie going to claim the record for most money made by a film that at best was thought to be "just ok"?
From just listening to people at work (I work in a large hospital), comic book readers think it was ok and everyone else thinks it was a mess of a movie.
Before the release, A lot of people seemed confused by the title. They could not understand why Superman & Batman would be against each other.
Lots of movies that are just ok, or even actively terrible, do extremely well. Look at the Avatar, the number 1 movie ever, or the entire Transformers series.
And my wife's cousin went out of her way to asked me "Why do Batman and Superman have to fight?" This weekend.
@playdohsrepublic I agree with you. The only differences I would note is that I know a lot of people who loved (and still love) the Transformers movies and many people thought Avatar was a visual spectacle to behold*. I do not know anybody who thinks the same of BvS.
I have coworkers who have asked me the same question your wife's cousin asked you. I tried to tell them about Dark Knight Returns to little success. The discussion pretty much always ends with my coworker's memories of Superfriends being the standard of the Batman/Superman relationship.
*I have never seen any of the Transformers movies or Avatar so I cannot give my own opinion of those films.
I was going to write about how I sometimes don't understand why people get confused at the prospect of heroes fighting .... Protagonists tend to fight each other due to various causes in lots of movies.
But now I understand that people may not understand the concept of a movie revolving around them fighting.
Oh I can understand *why* people are asking...the title alone sets up the question.
Just find it interesting so many people I've talked to (not just on here) are having such issues explaining it to them. It's really quite simple:
"Two characters, on first encounter, presume the other one is a bad guy. They fight, realize they're not necessarily on opposite sides, and kaboom...they're bros."
“We just did it as this little aside because we had been tracking where we thought the movies were gonna go, and we don’t have room for Jimmy Olsen in our big pantheon of characters, but we can have fun with him, right?”
The fact that, to shoot a long-lived, and sometimes even lovable, character in the head be what Snyder considers "having fun" with a character... tells you something about Zack Snyder. And his relationship to these characters.
Snyder's not wrong, though. There is no place for Jimmy in the Justice League movies...you have to make room for Snapper Carr (as played by Shia LaBaeiouf)
Plus I'd always thought in MoS they had a Jane Olsen or something like (one of the girls Perry White helps out of the rubble) and they were thinking of doing a genderbent version of the character.
Plus I'd always thought in MoS they had a Jane Olsen or something like (one of the girls Perry White helps out of the rubble) and they were thinking of doing a genderbent version of the character.
I can see it now, Zack Snyder’s Superman’s Pal with Benefits, Jane Olsen, coming soon to a theater near you.
I can see it now, Zack Snyder’s Superman’s Pal with Benefits, Jane Olsen, coming soon to a theater near you.
"If we think there's even a ONE PERCENT chance that he's standing up Lois to sneak out with Jane, then we have to do everything in our power to stop him!"
Snyder's not wrong, though. There is no place for Jimmy in the Justice League movies...you have to make room for Snapper Carr (as played by Shia LaBaeiouf)
Plus I'd always thought in MoS they had a Jane Olsen or something like (one of the girls Perry White helps out of the rubble) and they were thinking of doing a genderbent version of the character.
I'm wondering how much of MoS is even canon to this universe anymore? From the Jane Olsen character, to the total lack of the musical cues from MoS or any other Batman movie.
Regarding Snyder's treatment of Superman, here are a few more things that bugged me:
1. Why does everybody blame Superman for the massacre in Africa? Why not blame the Daily Planet? Or Lois Lane herself, who was accompanied both by the CIA and mercenaries (eventually revealed to be hired by Lex Luthor), all disguised as photojournalists? I guess one could ask why Superman let them shoot each other and only bothered to show up when Lois was in danger...
2. What was going on in the US Capitol? Couldn't Supes hear a bomb about to explode? And when it did explode, why did he just stand there like he had just farted at a wedding? He did NOTHING. Just sad-face Superman... standing in a room full of flames and charred bodies.
3. Most of Batman v Superman's story is pointless busywork - and so.very.dreary.and .boring. Why does this movie need both the African massacre and the explosion in the US Capitol for Superman to feel bad about the chaos he's brought to the world? Get over it.
4. When Luthor uses Lois as a damsel in distress bait to lure Superman out into the open, he then reveals he's also kidnapped Superman's mom. Did both Martha Kent AND Lois Lane need to be captured for this story to make sense? And why did Luthor bother to try to get import approval when he was going to just steal the kryptonite regardless?
5. Add this to the list of lame dream sequences (this film had so many I now hate dream sequences). What's the point of Clark's dream visit with his dad? Just to point out that no matter what you do, or how hard you work to save people, something might go wrong ... and then a bunch of horses will drown? Is Zack's lesson for the kids in the audience that, once again, even though it's good to help people, maybe you shouldn't? Why wasn't THIS scene deleted from Pete's sake?
6. Why didn't Superman give the spear to Wonder Woman to tackle the bad CGI cave-troll Doomsday? She isn't bothered by kryptonite, is she?
But hey, it’s still Batman fighting Superman in live-action, so it’s certainly worth watching. Especially if you can avoid the rest of the crushingly-dull and sloppy movie.
I gave the movie 2.75 out of 5 Batarangs. The low ratings by critics are kind of surprising to me but the film is a better entertainment vehicle than an actual film so that explains the box office. The first half of the movie really bored me and I kept looking at the time. The action in the second half picked things up considerably for me. I didn't hate the movie but nothing makes me want to go back to the theater to see it. I will wait and buy a used blu ray from my video store. I did enjoy the fight especially since Batman made Superman tap out.
I resigned myself to the fact that I do not like Snyder's take on Superman and outside of Justice League I don't have to go to any movie he directs Superman but that's okay. I look forward to Batfleck's take on the role. I'll look past the killing I guess but I thought Nolan and Burton's Batmans killed people. Wonder Woman looks great. So there's that. I got a Flash already. I'll see how Aquaman looks.
And the movie is dark and depressing and I am not saying that it has to be Guardians or Ant-man but just give maybe lighten it up just a smidge. Not a yuckfest but Cavill's Superman is so devoid of a personality.
I don't think I can tell someone to not see it or run to see it but it is a bit of comic and movie history that people need to see and judge for themselves.
Kevin Smith recanted: "I'd said the film didn't have any heart, but after the second viewing, I actually found the heart in #batmanvsuperman: it's in the viewer. And the viewer I watched the blockbuster with the second time was all agog, eyes as big as saucers. During the Knightmare sequence, we shared a moment that even elevated the flick for me: when the winged New Gods nasties attack #Batman and take him down, Jay (age 40) & I (age 45) simultaneously looked at one another and whispered reverently "ParaDemons." It was a beautiful moment shared by two lifelong fanboys who were delighted to see their childhood flash before their eyes."
And what's funny about that is that when I saw it...many many miles away...I also whispered "ParaDemons" with my eyes wide open and a big grin on my face.
My wife, of course, asked WTF a Parademon was, but the magic was still undeniable. :)
I saw him here last night live and he repeated that story from the podcast. I felt the same way about seeing the Vision in Age of Ultron. You couldn't tell me anything after seeing Vision.
I saw him here last night live and he repeated that story from the podcast. I felt the same way about seeing the Vision in Age of Ultron. You couldn't tell me anything after seeing Vision.
See, and all the hand-wringing and things people are doing about BvS was me back when AoU came out. Not sure what I saw there, but it wasn't really a movie.
But I'm with you on Vision when he showed up. Especially picking up the hammer.
Had a couple free movie passes dini took the wife to see bvs. She actually liked it and commented she doesn't understand what all the negative reviews and press. However She also said "the people doing the marvel movies do a better job". "they're funnier, or at least have little funny bits here and there". Her only real complaint was wondering why WW had an accent or if she was supposed to have one. My feelings about it remain the same except I found it a bit boring and its length was sure apparent the 2nd time. i was also surprised the theatre was virtually sold out. There were more people than when i saw it last week. Unexpected given the reports of how much it's tickets have supposedly dropped off.
Saw it opening weekend. I'm definitely in the 'not a fan' camp, thus far. Visually impressive... Affleck surprisingly good as Batman... but the movie was a hot mess of a story. Although, I'm equally as confused as some as to how polarizing the reviews are. While I sat in the theater repeatedly thinking 'Wow... this is just bad', at the end of the movie I turned and looked at the guy next to me and asked what he thought. His response was that the 'Marvel movies are gonna have to step up their game to keep up with this!'. I started to wonder whether I'd fallen asleep at some point and missed the 'good' part...
Also read a pretty scathing review in our local free 'social' magazine...
I was going to write about how I sometimes don't understand why people get confused at the prospect of heroes fighting .... Protagonists tend to fight each other due to various causes in lots of movies.
But now I understand that people may not understand the concept of a movie revolving around them fighting.
I think for a certain generation, Superman and Batman will always be associated with Superfriends. Happy, grinning buddies fighting crime together.
My wife thought nothing of Iron Man and Captain America fighting in the Civil War trailer, but her immediate reaction to the BvS trailer was "I thought they were friends?"
I've seen the movie. I needed some time to soak it in. I didn't hate it and I enjoyed it more than I thought I would but I just felt bored at times. I feel it was cohesive for the most part and I feel a lot of things were forced and not earned. Batman and Superman basically become friends because their moms share the same first name. That's it. Batman hates Superman because he's powerful and can break stuff. That's not as bad but I just don't think it's enough. I'm not a fan of Ezra Miller as Barry Allen in the least although I think he would have made a decent Kyle Rayner. Doomsday looked very bland and cookie cutter. This movie overall was way too long and I just don't know what else to say about it. I did love the music and I loved Wonder Woman. She was perfect and I cannot wait for the solo movie. I think when it's all said and done, I'm not a fan of Zack Snyder and his vision and it's sad because I want to like these movies but I just left feeling very empty.
Have seen it twice now. It suffered greatly from over-promotion, and this film is not at all what we were expecting or hoping for (i.e. easy-to-comprehend fun for kids and adults)… but once you divorce yourself of all that, what you are left with is a surprisingly interesting and realistic take on what superheroes mean to us, as well as what governments, the media, and our own identities (mortal and metahuman alike) mean to us, too.
This film’s biggest enemy is not Lex, Doomsday, or Darkseid. Or hateful Marvel fans, or disaffected DC fans, or people wishing to trash the rising phenomenon of superhero films/TV. This film’s biggest enemy is its editing; specifically its super-fast pace, but also its deletion of the “Communion” scene (which really helps to show Lex’s motivations from mid-film onward) and its unnecessary inclusion of the scenes depicting the murders of Thomas & Martha Wayne and Little Bruce falling in the Batcave. The murders, especially – because every human on Earth already knows how that couple died, it takes up time in an already long film, and deleting it actually makes the latter “Martha is your mom’s name” scene much less ham-fisted. I’m telling you – if Snyder only let me delete the Wayne murders, then let me reshoot the “Martha is your mom’s name” scene with smoother dialogue? It would’ve been even cooler.
But back to the editing pace. To me, it truly feels like Snyder et al were trying to stuff 3.5 hours of story into a 2.5 hour movie. Technically, they sort of managed it; but not nearly enough to let people in a theater setting easily follow all the beats of this complex story. For home viewing? This film’s story will play much better. You can pause it, and think about it. There is lots of dialogue there which does set stuff up – it just races by you too fast in a movie theater. I can see how easy it would be for a theater viewer’s frustration to spiral, that way. And if you don’t like the movie in a more general sense, then no change in pacing will change your mind. BUT if you want to give this film the benefit of your doubt, then careful viewing – a second viewing, if you are so inclined – really does help a lot. In that sense, it’s the opposite of something like “The Avengers,” which is written and filmed for the simpler consumption of audiences young and old, in the theater and at home. I’m not saying that in a negative sense; I’m just underscoring that when a movie is produced for all ages versus an older demo, it can have a different tone and pace. I really liked “The Avengers!” But I only needed to see it once, I got it the first time around. This is how I chalk up the editing of BvS: in an era when we have grown so comfortable with the decompressed story style of comic books, and comic book films/TV? The super *compressed* story of BvS justifiably leaves many theater viewers nonplussed, even whiplashed. But if you take time to unpack the compression – there’s a whole lot of great stuff there.
People also criticize BvS for being a bad Superman story. But for me? – and he is my #1 favorite comic book hero – this film may have been the first time I could watch Superman fight Batman and have FUN with it! Some background on what you may see as my delirium…
Since news of this film’s title first broke, I had been nervous for BvS to hit theaters. As a Superman fan, I have *hated* how storytellers always, always rig his fights wth Batman – showing Superman as little more than naive, dumb muscle, and Batman as the brainy David to a super-Goliath. This conceit has been enforced especially since the huge success and influence of Miller’s 1986 *The Dark Knight Returns.* Miller’s portrayal of Superman as little more than a tool – as Reagan’s boy scout, a government stooge, and the antagonist (if not through the whole story than definitely during its climactic fight) – and Batman as the reader’s root-for protagonist to take Superman down? That really killed the character of Superman for decades. As much as I respect Miller’s story for helping to reinvigorate a dying comic book industry? I have also resented TDKR specifically for hurting Superman, and heroes over antiheroes, as popular characters.
So there I was in the theater on March 24… nervously waiting for Zack Snyder to give cinematic proof to the loud Bat-fanboys who incessantly trumpet how Batman would kick Superman’s ass. And how stunned I was… to see how Snyder had GUTTED Batman in this fight (if not the film) so promoted to be “inspired” by Miller’s famous graphic novel! In BvS, Batman is NOT your lone protagonist, he is not your root-for character against Superman (unless you just hate Superman so much you want him dead anyhow). The narrative of this film presents Superman as your co-protagonist. Unlike in TDKR, we are sitting in that theater knowing that Superman is a good-hearted hero who may be more fallible than we’ve seen him before, but he is a hero, and he is no one’s puppet. The movie, unlike the graphic novel, doesn’t want Batman to succeed over Superman – it wants Batman to join forces with Superman. The movie spends 2 hours showing you that Batman is wrong about him (again, as a decades-beaten Superman fan, I gotta love that). So during the fight itself, for the first time? I was able to see it more like seeing your two younger brothers fight. They had a misunderstanding. They were so filled with piss and vinegar that they had to go at each other. But like watching your little brothers fight? You know while watching that they’ll make up and love each other. So I thank BvS for giving me that relief. This movie simply stripped off the chassis of that final fight from TDKR, but then it dropped in a surprisingly pro-Superman engine. In the end? Batman saw that Superman was right :)
Trust me, I know that by liking this film as much as I do, I am in the minority. It also helps that I see it as a mere Elseworld. (i.e., don’t worry about how things are portrayed here, its okay to like some parts over others.) I’ll fully concede that BvS doesn’t come close to 1978′s “Superman: The Movie” – or a lot of other great movies – but I’ll also go to my grave knowing this movie was not as bad as the screeching reviews have made it out to be. Hey, like what you like, hate what you hate. But I liked BvS. And hopefully this post shed some light on why.
Snyder's not wrong, though. There is no place for Jimmy in the Justice League movies...you have to make room for Snapper Carr (as played by Shia LaBaeiouf)
Plus I'd always thought in MoS they had a Jane Olsen or something like (one of the girls Perry White helps out of the rubble) and they were thinking of doing a genderbent version of the character.
Her first name was Jenny. I'm not certain they revealed her last name.
Kevin Smith recanted: "I'd said the film didn't have any heart, but after the second viewing, I actually found the heart in #batmanvsuperman: it's in the viewer. And the viewer I watched the blockbuster with the second time was all agog, eyes as big as saucers. During the Knightmare sequence, we shared a moment that even elevated the flick for me: when the winged New Gods nasties attack #Batman and take him down, Jay (age 40) & I (age 45) simultaneously looked at one another and whispered reverently "ParaDemons." It was a beautiful moment shared by two lifelong fanboys who were delighted to see their childhood flash before their eyes."
And what's funny about that is that when I saw it...many many miles away...I also whispered "ParaDemons" with my eyes wide open and a big grin on my face.
My wife, of course, asked WTF a Parademon was, but the magic was still undeniable. :)
Actually he didn't exactly recant, that's his 3rd time commenting on it. I expect that kind of back-peddling from him since he is essentially a DC shill and coming out like he did, with his first honest impression upset some folks at DC and he got a phone call. According to DailySuperhero.com his views only slightly altered. After his second viewing he said:
"There was enough stuff in there, and again, I'll call it the parademon theory. Which is like that was enough. It didn't f****** matter what happened from there in on out. It didn't matter if the movie made sense, it didn't matter if it was well made as a Marvel movie or a f****** whatever, didn't matter that you know, it didn't have a moral. That's the thing man, Deadpool has a moral. Doesn't matter what you look like on the outside, its what's on the inside. I don't think Batman V Superman has a moral. I've been trying to think about it since I've seen it twice, or once and a 3 quarter times. Not quite sure, I guess the moral might be don't judge a book by its cover. Maybe? I don't know man, but I like my superhero stories to have morality. So in any event, if you like it way more than me, f***ing awesome. Keep that enthusiasm up. Maybe I'll f***ing join you on the next round. Believe me by the f***ing second viewing of this movie I was like 'yeah yeah man, alright.'"
For the record, the parademon sequence was cool, weird, and visually exciting. I would have liked the whole movie to have been like that. It would've been far better.
Hans Zimmer did BOTH of those soundtracks and was heavily involved in this film's soundtrack. Although Zimmer is credited as the main composer for the film, he recruited Junkie XL to do the heavy lifting. Too bad he failed to lift two GREAT themes.
Maybe music is just too important to me...
Although he did the music for TDK trilogy & the studio was using the coattails of an older, worn out Batman from Nolan's movies, this is essentially a character reboot. That means new theme.
I gave the movie 2.75 out of 5 Batarangs. The low ratings by critics are kind of surprising to me but the film is a better entertainment vehicle than an actual film so that explains the box office. The first half of the movie really bored me and I kept looking at the time. The action in the second half picked things up considerably for me. I didn't hate the movie but nothing makes me want to go back to the theater to see it. I will wait and buy a used blu ray from my video store. I did enjoy the fight especially since Batman made Superman tap out.
I resigned myself to the fact that I do not like Snyder's take on Superman and outside of Justice League I don't have to go to any movie he directs Superman but that's okay. I look forward to Batfleck's take on the role. I'll look past the killing I guess but I thought Nolan and Burton's Batmans killed people. Wonder Woman looks great. So there's that. I got a Flash already. I'll see how Aquaman looks.
And the movie is dark and depressing and I am not saying that it has to be Guardians or Ant-man but just give maybe lighten it up just a smidge. Not a yuckfest but Cavill's Superman is so devoid of a personality.
I don't think I can tell someone to not see it or run to see it but it is a bit of comic and movie history that people need to see and judge for themselves.
There are definitely confirmed Batman kills in Burton's movies, arguably in Nolan's films. Neither director, however, claimed to have the truest comic book version on film. When I saw the Batmobile had guns on the hood, I knew Snyder's claim was false.
Comments
I agree with you. The only differences I would note is that I know a lot of people who loved (and still love) the Transformers movies and many people thought Avatar was a visual spectacle to behold*. I do not know anybody who thinks the same of BvS.
I have coworkers who have asked me the same question your wife's cousin asked you. I tried to tell them about Dark Knight Returns to little success. The discussion pretty much always ends with my coworker's memories of Superfriends being the standard of the Batman/Superman relationship.
*I have never seen any of the Transformers movies or Avatar so I cannot give my own opinion of those films.
His shafting was like a bullet to the heart... Or in his case, the head. ;)
The pat answer is - it's what two heroes do when they first meet up. Look at what Thor and Iron Man did in Avengers.
Been part and parcel of comic book lore for decades now...long before Miller came along.
But now I understand that people may not understand the concept of a movie revolving around them fighting.
Just find it interesting so many people I've talked to (not just on here) are having such issues explaining it to them. It's really quite simple:
"Two characters, on first encounter, presume the other one is a bad guy. They fight, realize they're not necessarily on opposite sides, and kaboom...they're bros."
Snyder's not wrong, though. There is no place for Jimmy in the Justice League movies...you have to make room for Snapper Carr (as played by Shia LaBaeiouf)
Plus I'd always thought in MoS they had a Jane Olsen or something like (one of the girls Perry White helps out of the rubble) and they were thinking of doing a genderbent version of the character.
Regarding Snyder's treatment of Superman, here are a few more things that bugged me:
1. Why does everybody blame Superman for the massacre in Africa? Why not blame the Daily Planet? Or Lois Lane herself, who was accompanied both by the CIA and mercenaries (eventually revealed to be hired by Lex Luthor), all disguised as photojournalists? I guess one could ask why Superman let them shoot each other and only bothered to show up when Lois was in danger...
2. What was going on in the US Capitol? Couldn't Supes hear a bomb about to explode? And when it did explode, why did he just stand there like he had just farted at a wedding? He did NOTHING. Just sad-face Superman... standing in a room full of flames and charred bodies.
3. Most of Batman v Superman's story is pointless busywork - and so.very.dreary.and .boring. Why does this movie need both the African massacre and the explosion in the US Capitol for Superman to feel bad about the chaos he's brought to the world? Get over it.
4. When Luthor uses Lois as a damsel in distress bait to lure Superman out into the open, he then reveals he's also kidnapped Superman's mom. Did both Martha Kent AND Lois Lane need to be captured for this story to make sense? And why did Luthor bother to try to get import approval when he was going to just steal the kryptonite regardless?
5. Add this to the list of lame dream sequences (this film had so many I now hate dream sequences). What's the point of Clark's dream visit with his dad? Just to point out that no matter what you do, or how hard you work to save people, something might go wrong ... and then a bunch of horses will drown? Is Zack's lesson for the kids in the audience that, once again, even though it's good to help people, maybe you shouldn't? Why wasn't THIS scene deleted from Pete's sake?
6. Why didn't Superman give the spear to Wonder Woman to tackle the bad CGI cave-troll Doomsday? She isn't bothered by kryptonite, is she?
But hey, it’s still Batman fighting Superman in live-action, so it’s certainly worth watching. Especially if you can avoid the rest of the crushingly-dull and sloppy movie.
I resigned myself to the fact that I do not like Snyder's take on Superman and outside of Justice League I don't have to go to any movie he directs Superman but that's okay. I look forward to Batfleck's take on the role. I'll look past the killing I guess but I thought Nolan and Burton's Batmans killed people. Wonder Woman looks great. So there's that. I got a Flash already. I'll see how Aquaman looks.
And the movie is dark and depressing and I am not saying that it has to be Guardians or Ant-man but just give maybe lighten it up just a smidge. Not a yuckfest but Cavill's Superman is so devoid of a personality.
I don't think I can tell someone to not see it or run to see it but it is a bit of comic and movie history that people need to see and judge for themselves.
But I'm with you on Vision when he showed up. Especially picking up the hammer.
:smiley:
Also read a pretty scathing review in our local free 'social' magazine...
http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/in-the-matter-of-batman-v-superman-v-is-for-vendetta-violent-and-vile/Content?oid=6518334
My wife thought nothing of Iron Man and Captain America fighting in the Civil War trailer, but her immediate reaction to the BvS trailer was "I thought they were friends?"
Have seen it twice now. It suffered greatly from over-promotion, and this film is not at all what we were expecting or hoping for (i.e. easy-to-comprehend fun for kids and adults)… but once you divorce yourself of all that, what you are left with is a surprisingly interesting and realistic take on what superheroes mean to us, as well as what governments, the media, and our own identities (mortal and metahuman alike) mean to us, too.
This film’s biggest enemy is not Lex, Doomsday, or Darkseid. Or hateful Marvel fans, or disaffected DC fans, or people wishing to trash the rising phenomenon of superhero films/TV. This film’s biggest enemy is its editing; specifically its super-fast pace, but also its deletion of the “Communion” scene (which really helps to show Lex’s motivations from mid-film onward) and its unnecessary inclusion of the scenes depicting the murders of Thomas & Martha Wayne and Little Bruce falling in the Batcave. The murders, especially – because every human on Earth already knows how that couple died, it takes up time in an already long film, and deleting it actually makes the latter “Martha is your mom’s name” scene much less ham-fisted. I’m telling you – if Snyder only let me delete the Wayne murders, then let me reshoot the “Martha is your mom’s name” scene with smoother dialogue? It would’ve been even cooler.
But back to the editing pace. To me, it truly feels like Snyder et al were trying to stuff 3.5 hours of story into a 2.5 hour movie. Technically, they sort of managed it; but not nearly enough to let people in a theater setting easily follow all the beats of this complex story. For home viewing? This film’s story will play much better. You can pause it, and think about it. There is lots of dialogue there which does set stuff up – it just races by you too fast in a movie theater. I can see how easy it would be for a theater viewer’s frustration to spiral, that way. And if you don’t like the movie in a more general sense, then no change in pacing will change your mind. BUT if you want to give this film the benefit of your doubt, then careful viewing – a second viewing, if you are so inclined – really does help a lot. In that sense, it’s the opposite of something like “The Avengers,” which is written and filmed for the simpler consumption of audiences young and old, in the theater and at home. I’m not saying that in a negative sense; I’m just underscoring that when a movie is produced for all ages versus an older demo, it can have a different tone and pace. I really liked “The Avengers!” But I only needed to see it once, I got it the first time around. This is how I chalk up the editing of BvS: in an era when we have grown so comfortable with the decompressed story style of comic books, and comic book films/TV? The super *compressed* story of BvS justifiably leaves many theater viewers nonplussed, even whiplashed. But if you take time to unpack the compression – there’s a whole lot of great stuff there.
People also criticize BvS for being a bad Superman story. But for me? – and he is my #1 favorite comic book hero – this film may have been the first time I could watch Superman fight Batman and have FUN with it! Some background on what you may see as my delirium…
Since news of this film’s title first broke, I had been nervous for BvS to hit theaters. As a Superman fan, I have *hated* how storytellers always, always rig his fights wth Batman – showing Superman as little more than naive, dumb muscle, and Batman as the brainy David to a super-Goliath. This conceit has been enforced especially since the huge success and influence of Miller’s 1986 *The Dark Knight Returns.* Miller’s portrayal of Superman as little more than a tool – as Reagan’s boy scout, a government stooge, and the antagonist (if not through the whole story than definitely during its climactic fight) – and Batman as the reader’s root-for protagonist to take Superman down? That really killed the character of Superman for decades. As much as I respect Miller’s story for helping to reinvigorate a dying comic book industry? I have also resented TDKR specifically for hurting Superman, and heroes over antiheroes, as popular characters.
So there I was in the theater on March 24… nervously waiting for Zack Snyder to give cinematic proof to the loud Bat-fanboys who incessantly trumpet how Batman would kick Superman’s ass. And how stunned I was… to see how Snyder had GUTTED Batman in this fight (if not the film) so promoted to be “inspired” by Miller’s famous graphic novel! In BvS, Batman is NOT your lone protagonist, he is not your root-for character against Superman (unless you just hate Superman so much you want him dead anyhow). The narrative of this film presents Superman as your co-protagonist. Unlike in TDKR, we are sitting in that theater knowing that Superman is a good-hearted hero who may be more fallible than we’ve seen him before, but he is a hero, and he is no one’s puppet. The movie, unlike the graphic novel, doesn’t want Batman to succeed over Superman – it wants Batman to join forces with Superman. The movie spends 2 hours showing you that Batman is wrong about him (again, as a decades-beaten Superman fan, I gotta love that). So during the fight itself, for the first time? I was able to see it more like seeing your two younger brothers fight. They had a misunderstanding. They were so filled with piss and vinegar that they had to go at each other. But like watching your little brothers fight? You know while watching that they’ll make up and love each other. So I thank BvS for giving me that relief. This movie simply stripped off the chassis of that final fight from TDKR, but then it dropped in a surprisingly pro-Superman engine. In the end? Batman saw that Superman was right :)
Trust me, I know that by liking this film as much as I do, I am in the minority. It also helps that I see it as a mere Elseworld. (i.e., don’t worry about how things are portrayed here, its okay to like some parts over others.) I’ll fully concede that BvS doesn’t come close to 1978′s “Superman: The Movie” – or a lot of other great movies – but I’ll also go to my grave knowing this movie was not as bad as the screeching reviews have made it out to be. Hey, like what you like, hate what you hate. But I liked BvS. And hopefully this post shed some light on why.
M
Where were THESE themes?
Hans Zimmer did BOTH of those soundtracks and was heavily involved in this film's soundtrack. Although Zimmer is credited as the main composer for the film, he recruited Junkie XL to do the heavy lifting. Too bad he failed to lift two GREAT themes.
Maybe music is just too important to me...
Although he did the music for TDK trilogy & the studio was using the coattails of an older, worn out Batman from Nolan's movies, this is essentially a character reboot. That means new theme.
M
M