Marvel Civil War II (Spoilers)
David_D
Posts: 3,884
Have at it! Will join in later today.
David_D
Posts: 3,884
Comments
***SPOILER***
Let's just say "a person of color" bites it, but they'll be back in a year.
It could be that Marvel has made statements about the end of Civil War, perhaps of promoting some of the 2.0 stuff. I haven't personally been reading much of the announcements or press or things, but there might be things to speculate about the ending from there.
I will ask, though (and I don't think this is what you are talking about, I just bring this up in case your talking about the ending of this event leads others to chime in on things that have leaked) that if there have been actual leaks, sort of the usual BC stuff, actually spoiling the ending of Civil War II, that we leave them out of this thread. Speculate away from the story itself, or statements/ announcements/ promos about the future, that sort of thing. But please leave out anything that is based on leaks about the ending.
It is still better than the original Civil War.
It's not forcing characters' personalities in knots to make them fit the two sides of an argument. And it will in all likelihood come out on time.
Like the original Civil War, the tie-ins are usually better than the core book, and one nice touch is that they aren't necessarily directly about the question of how to use Ulysses' power, but may just be thematically tied to the idea of a "civil war".
My favourite so far being the Miles vs. Kamala science fair showdown in Ms Marvel.
Also, despite the skillful misdirection the cover, Banner isn't green when he dies, thus the continuing theme of preventative intervention (even killing) to stop harm that is predicted to happen, but hasn't actually happened yet. In this case, honoring Banner's own request to kill him before he hulks out again, even though there is a chance it didn't have to go that way.
I'm sure once you've read the issue you can punch up the joke if you want ;)
But to answer the question, for me the point is the execution. The storytelling. I thought the storytelling in this issue was excellent. Much better than the prior issues of the miniseries so far. It was a great issue. I could probably go into the issue having known Banner would die and still have enjoyed it.
Their work is not Shakespeare, so this is not a comparison looking to equate, but I don't go watch a Romeo & Juliet to find out what happens. Hell, even the original audiences would not have known the rough plot. Hamlet was a rewrite of a prior, pretty recent stage hit. R&J gives away the ending in the opening 14 lines.
It's superhero comics. Some things will change, and then they will eventually, largely go back to the way they were. People will "die", and generally punch each other in the face. How it entertains me moment to moment while I am reading it is the point, for me.
M
Zing! ;)
I blame Norman Osborne.
M
Nice to be fictional, that way. To be and not to be and to be again.
It does have me wondering if the ramifications for bringing back Ben or the Waynes are too grand to make them return? I'm talking for more then say, a five year span.
M
Jean Grey, the real one, has been dead for almost 15 years now. Already longer than she was between Dark Phoenix Saga and X-Factor back in the '80s. The character recently returned, but it is the young Jean Grey, the time traveler. The version with all that prior history is still gone. Professor X dies a lot. But the most recent one is going on almost 5 years now, and it feels like the X-Men have moved on in such a way that it might stick this time, or at least, stick for longer than usual. There are probably others I could think of, but those come to mind first.
So, of course, a character death is just a story (because if you are a character-based entertainment company there is usually little reason to throw away your assets), and rebirths are part of that cycle. But sometimes it is not as quick as just a year or two.
Boy Secret Invasion was a mess of an event. It didn't even make sense. Reed Richards and the other 3 members of the FF have defeated (by themselves) galaxies of Skulls at thier intergalactic peak, but 3/4s of the FF and the rest of Marvel's heroes barely save Earth? And the only reason that the good guys win is Deadpool? Come on.
M
understatement and unintenional comedy.
And I say that as someone who, on the whole, tends to dig event books. And have liked most of the past Bendis events.
I think the first thing that didn't help was the title. I would have preferred if this had been its own thing. I think calling it Civil War II set too big of an expectation, and the wrong expectation.
I like the central concept- an exploration of the superpower of precognition that leads to a sort of Philip K. Dick precrime story about whether or not to use this tool/ the dangers of using it. But I feel like this never got as nuanced as it could have. And it would have been nice if there was more that helped bolster Captain Marvel's point of view. It just felt like the argument was stacked against her from the start.
I think the best issue was the trial of Hawkeye one, with the court case and the fallout. That was excellent. And I liked the idea of Banner and Clint having this arrangement.
But by the end of the story, it was hard to remember that even happened in this story. It felt ancillary and, to my memory, by the end of the story Tony and Carol were mostly yelling at each other about Rhodey, and Spider-Man stuff, and most everyone had forgotten that Banner dying even happened.
I also think part of it that weakened it for me is that I just don't give a damn about the Inhumans. It feels like they are getting a huge push all over the MU, and I find them a boring nostalgia act. So it didn't help, for me, that they had a big role in this.
And stretching things to an 8th issue, once we got that (pretty terrible) 8th issue felt unnecessary. I think they could have had a larger 7th issue and wrapped things up on the original plan. That final issue was a lot of treading water and house ads for future stories.
And that conversation between Hank and Carol, and the attempt to talk after the sale about what this series was supposed to mean, and how it is 'ripped from the headlines' was painful because, at the end of the day, this wasn't actually profiling. Profiling is a thing, but it is a very different thing. Whether or not you believe and act upon superhuman precognition is just not an analogue for profiling. Maybe a point could be made about modeling? But the attempt to make that connection rang false for me.
So . . . that happened. I know Marvel is having a down time right now. There are still a number of Marvel books, mostly solo characters, I really enjoy. And the Star Wars line of books continue to be fantastic. But this event was a high profile dud in my book. Here's hoping the Monsters one (I forget what it is called) is some light fun.
Anyone else stick with this to the end? What'd you think?
From an overall event standpoint, I think this came a little too soon after Secret Wars. Marvel events are starting to blur together with me.
Oh we'll, Marvel. Fool me once, shame on me; fool me 616 times... *sigh*
The allegory worked better than Civil War's. The people on the opposing sides of the argument made more sense than Civil War's. The use of the series for tie-ins worked better, for example, you wouldn't have got a Ms. Marvel vs. Spider-Man science fair competition story out of the first Civil War.
The action started mid series rather than in the last issue, which is a remarkable improvement for Bendis. And unlike Siege, his previous best, it had some room to breathe.
However, it had the usual problems of a Bendis team comic in places, where all forward momentum disappears in the delight of writing dialogue.
The ending is nigh non-existent, merely setting the stage for new comics, some of which are already on their second issue.
There's moments where it feels like he's not reading any other Marvel comics currently running.
It ran too long and too late.
And once again, he relies on the crutch of SCENES OF THINGS YET TO COME. Some of which we've seen before when he did this years ago (though this time the Martian Invaders scene has Killraven's number one fan Alan Davis drawing it).
And on top of Bendis' inherent weaknesses, it's also guilty of the number one crime in Marvel today TALKING ABOUT THE INHUMANS LIKE THEY ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE LINE. Which is an insult to the readers who know they aren't. Try writing a great Inhumans comic first, Marvel.