I just want to clarify that my issues with Kate Mara have nothing to do with her looks. I think she's one-note and that note is "the worst charactistics of shrew and slut" and that even "remotely sympathetic" is not anywhere in her limited range. So I think she'll make a lovely Sue Storm.
In a perfect world, they go ahead with their "bold new vision" and realize the core audience doesn't want "bold new visions" but rather something that builds on or acknowledges the source material.
The license for all future FF movies is lost, picked back up by Marvel, and we get what we've been waiting for.
In a perfect world, they go ahead with their "bold new vision" and realize the core audience doesn't want "bold new visions" but rather something that builds on or acknowledges the source material.
The license for all future FF movies is lost, picked back up by Marvel, and we get what we've been waiting for.
The most recent positive news / development in this movie (for me at least) is this leaked shot of a bust of The Thing (allegedly) from the movie set. Looks like a cross between Leifeld's Badrock and Rockslide from the X-Men. Although The Thing I'm most familiar with is orange and has no neck, but whatev...
It's encouraging, but I shouldn't let a random image or news snippet on the web alter my preconceived notions...
I just want to clarify that my issues with Kate Mara have nothing to do with her looks. I think she's one-note and that note is "the worst charactistics of shrew and slut" and that even "remotely sympathetic" is not anywhere in her limited range. So I think she'll make a lovely Sue Storm.
That is pretty harsh. I thought that she was quite watchable in Zoom, which really is a fun movie as well as Shooter and We Are Marshall. I took no exceptions to her role in House of Cards.
The cancellation of the FF in comics along with more talk of Marvel/Disney doing everything they can to not support the characters and stick it to Fox. Read with a grain of salt.
The cancellation of the FF in comics along with more talk of Marvel/Disney doing everything they can to not support the characters and stick it to Fox. Read with a grain of salt.
Truthfully, I keep forgetting this movie is coming out in 2015. No one seems to be talking about it.
The cancellation of the FF in comics along with more talk of Marvel/Disney doing everything they can to not support the characters and stick it to Fox. Read with a grain of salt.
Truthfully, I keep forgetting this movie is coming out in 2015. No one seems to be talking about it.
M
Agreed and a sort of 'Who Cares' feeling washes over me when I'm reminded.
The cancellation of the FF in comics along with more talk of Marvel/Disney doing everything they can to not support the characters and stick it to Fox. Read with a grain of salt.
Truthfully, I keep forgetting this movie is coming out in 2015. No one seems to be talking about it.
M
Agreed and a sort of 'Who Cares' feeling washes over me when I'm reminded.
Much like with the new Spider-man movie reboot, I'm skipping this one too.
The cancellation of the FF in comics along with more talk of Marvel/Disney doing everything they can to not support the characters and stick it to Fox. Read with a grain of salt.
I'm not sure I buy the narrative that the cancellation is about dissatisfaction with Fox's handling of the FF as a property. Because that would imply that a monthly FF comic, good or bad, moves the needle on the performance of these big movies in the marketplace. And I think we just know that is not true.
I think the cancellation (or, let's be real-- the temporary suspension) of a monthly FF title is instead to do with the lack of performance of FF comics for years.
And, yes, I do think the lack of Marvel Studio ownership/control is involved: there is less incentive to spend effort making the FF brands perform when you don't own them across all platforms.
But I think that is just some math in the cost/benefit analysis of where you put your talent and what books you give a push to. I don't think it make sense as some punitive move against Fox, or way of expressing a vote of no confidence in them.
Now- if the solicitations for the time the FF movie comes out, and there aren't FF reprints or new product *then*? Ok. That might seem like a vote of no confidence. But that is months from now.
Put another way- do you think the suits at Fox notice or care if there are FF comics on the stands or not? I would imagine they believe that awareness of the brand with the general audience either exists now or it doesn't. Some monthly comics between now and then won't change that.
And, yes, I do think the lack of Marvel Studio ownership/control is involved: there is less incentive to spend effort making the FF brands perform when you don't own them across all platforms.
The cancellation of the FF in comics along with more talk of Marvel/Disney doing everything they can to not support the characters and stick it to Fox. Read with a grain of salt.
Truthfully, I keep forgetting this movie is coming out in 2015. No one seems to be talking about it.
M
Agreed and a sort of 'Who Cares' feeling washes over me when I'm reminded.
Much like with the new Spider-man movie reboot, I'm skipping this one too.
The cancellation of the FF in comics along with more talk of Marvel/Disney doing everything they can to not support the characters and stick it to Fox. Read with a grain of salt.
Truthfully, I keep forgetting this movie is coming out in 2015. No one seems to be talking about it.
M
Agreed and a sort of 'Who Cares' feeling washes over me when I'm reminded.
Much like with the new Spider-man movie reboot, I'm skipping this one too.
M
Ditto on Spider-man.
None of the non-Marvel Studios Marvel movies interest me at this point.
I think the cancellation (or, let's be real-- the temporary suspension) of a monthly FF title is instead to do with the lack of performance of FF comics for years.
I'm having a hard time thinking of a title that's had so many high profile creators brought on board with almost no improvement in its sales. I suppose Hickman had some success, but he had to kill the Human Torch to get it.
It's weird to think that a title that was the center of the Marvel Universe when I was a kid is so insignificant these days. I can't imagine that Marvel would want get rid of FF, but they surely must be looking at what's going on and reaching the conclusion that there's not much else they can do to improve things.
The cancellation of the FF in comics along with more talk of Marvel/Disney doing everything they can to not support the characters and stick it to Fox. Read with a grain of salt.
Truthfully, I keep forgetting this movie is coming out in 2015. No one seems to be talking about it.
M
Agreed and a sort of 'Who Cares' feeling washes over me when I'm reminded.
Much like with the new Spider-man movie reboot, I'm skipping this one too.
M
Ditto on Spider-man.
None of the non-Marvel Studios Marvel movies interest me at this point.
I am hanging onto the X-Men franchise, but once Jackman leaves & the First Class trilogy is done, I think I will move on.
I'm not sure I buy the narrative that the cancellation is about dissatisfaction with Fox's handling of the FF as a property. Because that would imply that a monthly FF comic, good or bad, moves the needle on the performance of these big movies in the marketplace. And I think we just know that is not true.
I think the cancellation (or, let's be real-- the temporary suspension) of a monthly FF title is instead to do with the lack of performance of FF comics for years.
And, yes, I do think the lack of Marvel Studio ownership/control is involved: there is less incentive to spend effort making the FF brands perform when you don't own them across all platforms.
But I think that is just some math in the cost/benefit analysis of where you put your talent and what books you give a push to. I don't think it make sense as some punitive move against Fox, or way of expressing a vote of no confidence in them.
Now- if the solicitations for the time the FF movie comes out, and there aren't FF reprints or new product *then*? Ok. That might seem like a vote of no confidence. But that is months from now.
Put another way- do you think the suits at Fox notice or care if there are FF comics on the stands or not? I would imagine they believe that awareness of the brand with the general audience either exists now or it doesn't. Some monthly comics between now and then won't change that.
Two things- First, FF is a middle tier book, but it's sales are not cancel-worthy.
Second, just because you cancel a book, it doesn't mean you erase the characters from all your marketing material. If the reports are to be believed, Marvel is putting the entire franchise on ice, no comics, no toys, no merchandise.
We all know it doesn't really work, but Marvel has always made at least some kind of push, whether it be a relaunch or a high profile creative team, when a movie has come out. And for Marvel to leave First Family out of one of its most important anniversary years points to something deeper going on.
X-men is too key a franchise for Marvel to mess with, but they have leverage with FF because it's not a huge money maker. Marvel is a high profile brand now (and sadly, primarily an entertainment studio instead of a publisher). For years fans have been saying "I wish Marvel would get the rights back for so-and-so". For them to imply their disapproval over an adaptation is pretty damaging. They have traditionally played nice, even with the worst adaptations. Don't think for a second that Marvel isn't leaking all this themselves. This is a shot across the bow of a rival studio they have significant issues with.
Fantastic Four outsells Wonder Woman, yet WW is perpetually being proclaimed as DC's third-most important character, and everyone is insanely awaiting her film debut. So the claim that FF just doesn't sell, therefore who needs this book, is odd. As playdoh points out, it is a solid mid-tier book and one of the 2-3 most important legacy properties in the Marvel Universe. The politics behind this decision are blatant and a bit distasteful. I don't blame Marvel for being unhappy about the status of FF on film, but to intentionally crap on the comic that built your universe seems like a weird publishing decision.
The cancellation of the FF in comics along with more talk of Marvel/Disney doing everything they can to not support the characters and stick it to Fox. Read with a grain of salt.
Truthfully, I keep forgetting this movie is coming out in 2015. No one seems to be talking about it.
M
Agreed and a sort of 'Who Cares' feeling washes over me when I'm reminded.
Much like with the new Spider-man movie reboot, I'm skipping this one too.
M
Ditto on Spider-man.
None of the non-Marvel Studios Marvel movies interest me at this point.
X-men is still interesting to me, but I'm not sure for how long. Other than that, I agree 100%.
I'm not sure I buy the narrative that the cancellation is about dissatisfaction with Fox's handling of the FF as a property. Because that would imply that a monthly FF comic, good or bad, moves the needle on the performance of these big movies in the marketplace. And I think we just know that is not true.
I think the cancellation (or, let's be real-- the temporary suspension) of a monthly FF title is instead to do with the lack of performance of FF comics for years.
And, yes, I do think the lack of Marvel Studio ownership/control is involved: there is less incentive to spend effort making the FF brands perform when you don't own them across all platforms.
But I think that is just some math in the cost/benefit analysis of where you put your talent and what books you give a push to. I don't think it make sense as some punitive move against Fox, or way of expressing a vote of no confidence in them.
Now- if the solicitations for the time the FF movie comes out, and there aren't FF reprints or new product *then*? Ok. That might seem like a vote of no confidence. But that is months from now.
Put another way- do you think the suits at Fox notice or care if there are FF comics on the stands or not? I would imagine they believe that awareness of the brand with the general audience either exists now or it doesn't. Some monthly comics between now and then won't change that.
Two things- First, FF is a middle tier book, but it's sales are not cancel-worthy.
Second, just because you cancel a book, it doesn't mean you erase the characters from all your marketing material. If the reports are to be believed, Marvel is putting the entire franchise on ice, no comics, no toys, no merchandise.
We all know it doesn't really work, but Marvel has always made at least some kind of push, whether it be a relaunch or a high profile creative team, when a movie has come out. And for Marvel to leave First Family out of one of its most important anniversary years points to something deeper going on.
X-men is too key a franchise for Marvel to mess with, but they have leverage with FF because it's not a huge money maker. Marvel is a high profile brand now (and sadly, primarily an entertainment studio instead of a publisher). For years fans have been saying "I wish Marvel would get the rights back for so-and-so". For them to imply their disapproval over an adaptation is pretty damaging. They have traditionally played nice, even with the worst adaptations. Don't think for a second that Marvel isn't leaking all this themselves. This is a shot across the bow of a rival studio they have significant issues with.
I think it is even more than that. Again, take a look at Marvel's cover for their 75th anniversary magazine celebration. No FF and no X-Men. Plenty of other, lesser selling characters, but ALL of the movie properties are there and even Sony's Spider-Man is right up front. Ant-Man gets featured in all this 75th Anniversary promo material, but he doesn't even have a comic and the FF and X-characters get ignored? C'mon. Of course this is all anecdotal or circumstantial, no one at Marvel is going to confirm (on the record) that this is to 'punish' FOX Studios.
Disney/Marvel is currently writing all of the properties they do not own the film rights to into obscurity. They are currently in the process of killing off Logan and dismantling the X-books and taking those characters that are still of significance and putting them into the avengers and other books. We've all read reports that they are trying to circumvent the fact that Fox owns the rights to the word "mutant". They're cancelling all of the Fantastic Four (and related) books. They're placing more focus on Nova and the Guardians of the Galaxy along with Carol Danvers while gearing up to make Adam Warlock much more relevant.
I've also heard that Sony films is being very cooperative and is rumored to be willing to negotiate a way that allows Marvel to produce a Spider-Man film that Sony co-produces. They have also written Agent Venom into their Guardians of the Galaxy book and Agent Venom is also a Sony liscensed character as he is attached to the Spider-Man franchise via the symbiote.
I agree that it doesn't make business sense for Marvel to spend energy sustaining and growing the X-Men or FF brands when Fox makes money off of that work. I'd do the same if I were in their shoes. They have a huge stable of heroes they can use and actually earn 100% of the money from, so why put resources into characters that will only end up benefiting Fox? I also think FOX is responding to Disney buying Star Wars, which Fox used to distribute. And since Fox also distributes both Dreamworks and Blue Sky, two of Pixar's big competitors, they are going to milk X-Men for all it's worth. There certainly won't be any X-Men or FF characters whatsoever in DISNEY INFINITY 2.0 but that is to be expected. However, Spider-Man is and the Green Goblin is in there.
If you had two things, and on one you earned 100% of the revenues from the efforts that you put into making it, and the other you earned a much smaller percentage for the same amount of time and effort, you’d be more likely to concentrate more heavily on the first, wouldn’t you?
I'm not sure I buy the narrative that the cancellation is about dissatisfaction with Fox's handling of the FF as a property. Because that would imply that a monthly FF comic, good or bad, moves the needle on the performance of these big movies in the marketplace. And I think we just know that is not true.
I think the cancellation (or, let's be real-- the temporary suspension) of a monthly FF title is instead to do with the lack of performance of FF comics for years.
And, yes, I do think the lack of Marvel Studio ownership/control is involved: there is less incentive to spend effort making the FF brands perform when you don't own them across all platforms.
But I think that is just some math in the cost/benefit analysis of where you put your talent and what books you give a push to. I don't think it make sense as some punitive move against Fox, or way of expressing a vote of no confidence in them.
Now- if the solicitations for the time the FF movie comes out, and there aren't FF reprints or new product *then*? Ok. That might seem like a vote of no confidence. But that is months from now.
Put another way- do you think the suits at Fox notice or care if there are FF comics on the stands or not? I would imagine they believe that awareness of the brand with the general audience either exists now or it doesn't. Some monthly comics between now and then won't change that.
Two things- First, FF is a middle tier book, but it's sales are not cancel-worthy.
Second, just because you cancel a book, it doesn't mean you erase the characters from all your marketing material. If the reports are to be believed, Marvel is putting the entire franchise on ice, no comics, no toys, no merchandise.
We all know it doesn't really work, but Marvel has always made at least some kind of push, whether it be a relaunch or a high profile creative team, when a movie has come out. And for Marvel to leave First Family out of one of its most important anniversary years points to something deeper going on.
X-men is too key a franchise for Marvel to mess with, but they have leverage with FF because it's not a huge money maker. Marvel is a high profile brand now (and sadly, primarily an entertainment studio instead of a publisher). For years fans have been saying "I wish Marvel would get the rights back for so-and-so". For them to imply their disapproval over an adaptation is pretty damaging. They have traditionally played nice, even with the worst adaptations. Don't think for a second that Marvel isn't leaking all this themselves. This is a shot across the bow of a rival studio they have significant issues with.
I think it is even more than that. Again, take a look at Marvel's cover for their 75th anniversary magazine celebration. No FF and no X-Men. Plenty of other, lesser selling characters, but ALL of the movie properties are there and even Sony's Spider-Man is right up front. Ant-Man gets featured in all this 75th Anniversary promo material, but he doesn't even have a comic and the FF and X-characters get ignored? C'mon. Of course this is all anecdotal or circumstantial, no one at Marvel is going to confirm (on the record) that this is to 'punish' FOX Studios.
Disney/Marvel is currently writing all of the properties they do not own the film rights to into obscurity. They are currently in the process of killing off Logan and dismantling the X-books and taking those characters that are still of significance and putting them into the avengers and other books. We've all read reports that they are trying to circumvent the fact that Fox owns the rights to the word "mutant". They're cancelling all of the Fantastic Four (and related) books. They're placing more focus on Nova and the Guardians of the Galaxy along with Carol Danvers while gearing up to make Adam Warlock much more relevant.
I've also heard that Sony films is being very cooperative and is rumored to be willing to negotiate a way that allows Marvel to produce a Spider-Man film that Sony co-produces. They have also written Agent Venom into their Guardians of the Galaxy book and Agent Venom is also a Sony liscensed character as he is attached to the Spider-Man franchise via the symbiote.
I agree that it doesn't make business sense for Marvel to spend energy sustaining and growing the X-Men or FF brands when Fox makes money off of that work. I'd do the same if I were in their shoes. They have a huge stable of heroes they can use and actually earn 100% of the money from, so why put resources into characters that will only end up benefiting Fox? I also think FOX is responding to Disney buying Star Wars, which Fox used to distribute. And since Fox also distributes both Dreamworks and Blue Sky, two of Pixar's big competitors, they are going to milk X-Men for all it's worth. There certainly won't be any X-Men or FF characters whatsoever in DISNEY INFINITY 2.0 but that is to be expected. However, Spider-Man is and the Green Goblin is in there.
If you had two things, and on one you earned 100% of the revenues from the efforts that you put into making it, and the other you earned a much smaller percentage for the same amount of time and effort, you’d be more likely to concentrate more heavily on the first, wouldn’t you?
I agree that Marvel has little interest in supporting the Fox movies but the decision goes way beyond that. It's not just refusing to participate in marketing or not prodcuing tie-ins, it's a wholesale excision.
The comics are wholly owned by Marvel, they still get 100% of what they earn, and cancellation doesn't benefit their other properties in anyway. No one expects to funnel FF readers to Guardians just because FF is gone. FF is a viable property for the publisher and, because of the nature of the business, isn't an impediment to the success of other books. And does anyone really believe the publisher wants to cancel the premiere legacy book of the Marvel U?
This is Disney/Marvel (the studio) getting into a pissing match with Fox over a lot of things (I've read that Star Wars, which Fox still has and forever will have distribution rights to the first movie, is also a factor in their growing feud) and the comics are caught in the middle.
I don't disagree that this is a pissing match between studios. I just find people presuming that there's nothing to these "rumors" a bit naive. Something is certainly going on.
It's just sad. As much as I like the movies, and feel like the MCU especially is a valid universe on its own with interpretations of characters that pay homage to but stand apart from their comic book origins, the comics are my home. I hate to see what, for me anyway, is the derivative media take precedence over the properties I really care about. I completely understand the economics of it but I don't like it.
I'm not saying there is nothing true to the rumors. I could imagine that there are reasons that Marvel would be unhappy with Fox, and certainly executives are not above petty moves.
But what doesn't make sense is the idea that canceling FF (again) would actually punish Fox, or affect their upcoming FF movie whatsoever.
I mean, real talk: A floppy, monthly issue of FF is simply not a piece of mass media. It doesn't raise the visibility of a property to a general audience. Those of us that actually see periodical comics in the wild are people who already know who the FF are. Whether we do or don't see a handful of monthly issues between a triple-sized issue in 2015... and a movie that comes out a few months later?? Not exactly a crushing blow to the potential box office.
I get the way this could be seen as part of a pattern of moving FF off of the general 'Hey, look, it's Marvel!' sorts of promos. But that has been happening for years. That has been a gradual process.
I feel like, in the age of Marvel Studios, any opportunity to put Cap, Iron Man, and Thor front and center, and present them as the 'Big 3' of Marvel, has been taken, because why not double-down on the things you own completely? Of course. And there is only so much real estate. So if you want, say, more face time for Black Widow, Hawkeye, or even Ant Man... then there is going to be less room for The Thing and Mr. Fantastic to get their face in.
And Spidey and Wolverine still end up in the mix when it comes to the general corporate imaging of Marvel because they have been huge, consistent licensing successes. For decades. Absent of whether Marvel loves or hates Sony or Fox at any given time. I mean, there have been Wolverine and Spider-Man toothbrushes. So every opportunity taken for Marvel to show Spider-Man, Wolverine, or other popular X-Men on things-- whether on the cover of a promo magazine, or a balloon in the Macy's parade-- is an investment in money they can expect to come back to them, because those IPs, which they still own even if licensees get to make movies about them, perform. They sell things. And they even sell comics.
Fantastic Four may be the comic that started the Marvel Universe. . . but when was the last time they sold a toothbrush? Heck, it is hard for the FF to even sell comic books in 2014.
To sell FF seems to take an effort they would rather put behind the things they get to wholly own and exploit themselves. That is a bummer to think about, but it is also the business reality of what is, let's remember, not a comic book company, but rather:
... one of the world's most prominent character-based entertainment companies, built on a proven library of over 8,000 characters featured in a variety of media over seventy years. Marvel utilizes its character franchises in entertainment, licensing and publishing.
My guess? They are cancelling FF to get the bump for the "FINAL ISSUE" and then, for that small group of us that actually care about the comic books, to later get a bump for a relaunched #1 that will, for at least 6 issues, have an A list creative team. Sure, FF could instead have some mid-list sales for those months that it would be off the market. Or, it could instead maybe get 'death of Johnny Storm' numbers for the expensive final issue, and the new #1.
I actually wouldn't put it past the publishing division to try to leverage the rumors and the dissatisfaction amongst the FF comics fans for the upcoming reboot to try to sell us on this storied finale and later, back-to-basics, this IS your father's ALL NEW FF #1. To take the FF, which most readers have taken for granted for decades, away for a bit to see if you can actually get a slightly larger readership to want it back.
We'll see. But actually thinking the suits at Fox actually give a damn whether about roughly 30,000 copies (and dropping!) of a Fantastic Four monthly are or aren't in circulation next year when the movie comes out. . .and thus cancelling just to spite them?? I just don't see it. I think Fox execs pay a lot less attention to solicitations of comic books than Bleeding Cool does.
I'm not saying there is nothing true to the rumors. I could imagine that there are reasons that Marvel would be unhappy with Fox, and certainly executives are not above petty moves.
But what doesn't make sense is the idea that canceling FF (again) would actually punish Fox, or affect their upcoming FF movie whatsoever.
I mean, real talk: A floppy, monthly issue of FF is simply not a piece of mass media. It doesn't raise the visibility of a property to a general audience. Those of us that actually see periodical comics in the wild are people who already know who the FF are. Whether we do or don't see a handful of monthly issues between a triple-sized issue in 2015... and a movie that comes out a few months later?? Not exactly a crushing blow to the potential box office.
I get the way this could be seen as part of a pattern of moving FF off of the general 'Hey, look, it's Marvel!' sorts of promos. But that has been happening for years. That has been a gradual process.
I feel like, in the age of Marvel Studios, any opportunity to put Cap, Iron Man, and Thor front and center, and present them as the 'Big 3' of Marvel, has been taken, because why not double-down on the things you own completely? Of course. And there is only so much real estate. So if you want, say, more face time for Black Widow, Hawkeye, or even Ant Man... then there is going to be less room for The Thing and Mr. Fantastic to get their face in.
And Spidey and Wolverine still end up in the mix when it comes to the general corporate imaging of Marvel because they have been huge, consistent licensing successes. For decades. Absent of whether Marvel loves or hates Sony or Fox at any given time. I mean, there have been Wolverine and Spider-Man toothbrushes. So every opportunity taken for Marvel to show Spider-Man, Wolverine, or other popular X-Men on things-- whether on the cover of a promo magazine, or a balloon in the Macy's parade-- is an investment in money they can expect to come back to them, because those IPs, which they still own even if licensees get to make movies about them, perform. They sell things. And they even sell comics.
Fantastic Four may be the comic that started the Marvel Universe. . . but when was the last time they sold a toothbrush? Heck, it is hard for the FF to even sell comic books in 2014.
To sell FF seems to take an effort they would rather put behind the things they get to wholly own and exploit themselves. That is a bummer to think about, but it is also the business reality of what is, let's remember, not a comic book company, but rather:
... one of the world's most prominent character-based entertainment companies, built on a proven library of over 8,000 characters featured in a variety of media over seventy years. Marvel utilizes its character franchises in entertainment, licensing and publishing.
My guess? They are cancelling FF to get the bump for the "FINAL ISSUE" and then, for that small group of us that actually care about the comic books, to later get a bump for a relaunched #1 that will, for at least 6 issues, have an A list creative team. Sure, FF could instead have some mid-list sales for those months that it would be off the market. Or, it could instead maybe get 'death of Johnny Storm' numbers for the expensive final issue, and the new #1.
I actually wouldn't put it past the publishing division to try to leverage the rumors and the dissatisfaction amongst the FF comics fans for the upcoming reboot to try to sell us on this storied finale and later, back-to-basics, this IS your father's ALL NEW FF #1. To take the FF, which most readers have taken for granted for decades, away for a bit to see if you can actually get a slightly larger readership to want it back.
We'll see. But actually thinking the suits at Fox actually give a damn whether about roughly 30,000 copies (and dropping!) of a Fantastic Four monthly are or aren't in circulation next year when the movie comes out. . .and thus cancelling just to spite them?? I just don't see it. I think Fox execs pay a lot less attention to solicitations of comic books than Bleeding Cool does.
Again, it goes way beyond the comic. Nobody thinks 30,000 floppies drives movie ticket sales. What it comes down to is a public withdrawal of support for the franchise. In effect, the most successful studio in the business right now, with a brand that people regularly say "can do no wrong" (others words, not mine, but I've heard it many places) is giving another studio handling a franchise that most people who know anything at all (which is way more than we usually give the general public credit for) believe should be in the former's hands a huge vote of no confidence. And it becomes a news item attached to every other story about the Fox FF movie.
From this point forward every headline might as well be "Fox is making another Fantastic Four movie and Marvel doesn't want to have anything to do with it". Considering the "controversial" liberties Fox is taking, that kind of stance is pretty damaging.
Canceling the book is an easy way to bring this all out in the open, and it's easily reversible because the comic community expects relaunches now. But nothing about the book's current sales or trends says that it should have been on the chopping block.
And there is absolutely no reason to deny licenses, because all they do is generate revenue, and there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that's happening too.
... one of the world's most prominent character-based entertainment companies, built on a proven library of over 8,000 characters featured in a variety of media over seventy years. Marvel utilizes its character franchises in entertainment, licensing and publishing.
Comments
The license for all future FF movies is lost, picked back up by Marvel, and we get what we've been waiting for.
It's encouraging, but I shouldn't let a random image or news snippet on the web alter my preconceived notions...
M
M
It looks like that grain just got a little bigger...
I think the cancellation (or, let's be real-- the temporary suspension) of a monthly FF title is instead to do with the lack of performance of FF comics for years.
And, yes, I do think the lack of Marvel Studio ownership/control is involved: there is less incentive to spend effort making the FF brands perform when you don't own them across all platforms.
But I think that is just some math in the cost/benefit analysis of where you put your talent and what books you give a push to. I don't think it make sense as some punitive move against Fox, or way of expressing a vote of no confidence in them.
Now- if the solicitations for the time the FF movie comes out, and there aren't FF reprints or new product *then*? Ok. That might seem like a vote of no confidence. But that is months from now.
Put another way- do you think the suits at Fox notice or care if there are FF comics on the stands or not? I would imagine they believe that awareness of the brand with the general audience either exists now or it doesn't. Some monthly comics between now and then won't change that.
It's weird to think that a title that was the center of the Marvel Universe when I was a kid is so insignificant these days. I can't imagine that Marvel would want get rid of FF, but they surely must be looking at what's going on and reaching the conclusion that there's not much else they can do to improve things.
M
First, FF is a middle tier book, but it's sales are not cancel-worthy.
Second, just because you cancel a book, it doesn't mean you erase the characters from all your marketing material. If the reports are to be believed, Marvel is putting the entire franchise on ice, no comics, no toys, no merchandise.
We all know it doesn't really work, but Marvel has always made at least some kind of push, whether it be a relaunch or a high profile creative team, when a movie has come out. And for Marvel to leave First Family out of one of its most important anniversary years points to something deeper going on.
X-men is too key a franchise for Marvel to mess with, but they have leverage with FF because it's not a huge money maker. Marvel is a high profile brand now (and sadly, primarily an entertainment studio instead of a publisher). For years fans have been saying "I wish Marvel would get the rights back for so-and-so". For them to imply their disapproval over an adaptation is pretty damaging. They have traditionally played nice, even with the worst adaptations. Don't think for a second that Marvel isn't leaking all this themselves. This is a shot across the bow of a rival studio they have significant issues with.
I think it is even more than that. Again, take a look at Marvel's cover for their 75th anniversary magazine celebration. No FF and no X-Men. Plenty of other, lesser selling characters, but ALL of the movie properties are there and even Sony's Spider-Man is right up front. Ant-Man gets featured in all this 75th Anniversary promo material, but he doesn't even have a comic and the FF and X-characters get ignored? C'mon. Of course this is all anecdotal or circumstantial, no one at Marvel is going to confirm (on the record) that this is to 'punish' FOX Studios.
Disney/Marvel is currently writing all of the properties they do not own the film rights to into obscurity. They are currently in the process of killing off Logan and dismantling the X-books and taking those characters that are still of significance and putting them into the avengers and other books. We've all read reports that they are trying to circumvent the fact that Fox owns the rights to the word "mutant". They're cancelling all of the Fantastic Four (and related) books. They're placing more focus on Nova and the Guardians of the Galaxy along with Carol Danvers while gearing up to make Adam Warlock much more relevant.
I've also heard that Sony films is being very cooperative and is rumored to be willing to negotiate a way that allows Marvel to produce a Spider-Man film that Sony co-produces. They have also written Agent Venom into their Guardians of the Galaxy book and Agent Venom is also a Sony liscensed character as he is attached to the Spider-Man franchise via the symbiote.
See also: Venom's Origins To Be Revealed in Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy Comic
I agree that it doesn't make business sense for Marvel to spend energy sustaining and growing the X-Men or FF brands when Fox makes money off of that work. I'd do the same if I were in their shoes. They have a huge stable of heroes they can use and actually earn 100% of the money from, so why put resources into characters that will only end up benefiting Fox? I also think FOX is responding to Disney buying Star Wars, which Fox used to distribute. And since Fox also distributes both Dreamworks and Blue Sky, two of Pixar's big competitors, they are going to milk X-Men for all it's worth. There certainly won't be any X-Men or FF characters whatsoever in DISNEY INFINITY 2.0 but that is to be expected. However, Spider-Man is and the Green Goblin is in there.
Finally I add this from Tom Breevport of Marvel
I agree that Marvel has little interest in supporting the Fox movies but the decision goes way beyond that. It's not just refusing to participate in marketing or not prodcuing tie-ins, it's a wholesale excision.
The comics are wholly owned by Marvel, they still get 100% of what they earn, and cancellation doesn't benefit their other properties in anyway. No one expects to funnel FF readers to Guardians just because FF is gone. FF is a viable property for the publisher and, because of the nature of the business, isn't an impediment to the success of other books. And does anyone really believe the publisher wants to cancel the premiere legacy book of the Marvel U?
This is Disney/Marvel (the studio) getting into a pissing match with Fox over a lot of things (I've read that Star Wars, which Fox still has and forever will have distribution rights to the first movie, is also a factor in their growing feud) and the comics are caught in the middle.
But what doesn't make sense is the idea that canceling FF (again) would actually punish Fox, or affect their upcoming FF movie whatsoever.
I mean, real talk: A floppy, monthly issue of FF is simply not a piece of mass media. It doesn't raise the visibility of a property to a general audience. Those of us that actually see periodical comics in the wild are people who already know who the FF are. Whether we do or don't see a handful of monthly issues between a triple-sized issue in 2015... and a movie that comes out a few months later?? Not exactly a crushing blow to the potential box office.
I get the way this could be seen as part of a pattern of moving FF off of the general 'Hey, look, it's Marvel!' sorts of promos. But that has been happening for years. That has been a gradual process.
I feel like, in the age of Marvel Studios, any opportunity to put Cap, Iron Man, and Thor front and center, and present them as the 'Big 3' of Marvel, has been taken, because why not double-down on the things you own completely? Of course. And there is only so much real estate. So if you want, say, more face time for Black Widow, Hawkeye, or even Ant Man... then there is going to be less room for The Thing and Mr. Fantastic to get their face in.
And Spidey and Wolverine still end up in the mix when it comes to the general corporate imaging of Marvel because they have been huge, consistent licensing successes. For decades. Absent of whether Marvel loves or hates Sony or Fox at any given time. I mean, there have been Wolverine and Spider-Man toothbrushes. So every opportunity taken for Marvel to show Spider-Man, Wolverine, or other popular X-Men on things-- whether on the cover of a promo magazine, or a balloon in the Macy's parade-- is an investment in money they can expect to come back to them, because those IPs, which they still own even if licensees get to make movies about them, perform. They sell things. And they even sell comics.
Fantastic Four may be the comic that started the Marvel Universe. . . but when was the last time they sold a toothbrush? Heck, it is hard for the FF to even sell comic books in 2014.
To sell FF seems to take an effort they would rather put behind the things they get to wholly own and exploit themselves. That is a bummer to think about, but it is also the business reality of what is, let's remember, not a comic book company, but rather: My guess? They are cancelling FF to get the bump for the "FINAL ISSUE" and then, for that small group of us that actually care about the comic books, to later get a bump for a relaunched #1 that will, for at least 6 issues, have an A list creative team. Sure, FF could instead have some mid-list sales for those months that it would be off the market. Or, it could instead maybe get 'death of Johnny Storm' numbers for the expensive final issue, and the new #1.
I actually wouldn't put it past the publishing division to try to leverage the rumors and the dissatisfaction amongst the FF comics fans for the upcoming reboot to try to sell us on this storied finale and later, back-to-basics, this IS your father's ALL NEW FF #1. To take the FF, which most readers have taken for granted for decades, away for a bit to see if you can actually get a slightly larger readership to want it back.
We'll see. But actually thinking the suits at Fox actually give a damn whether about roughly 30,000 copies (and dropping!) of a Fantastic Four monthly are or aren't in circulation next year when the movie comes out. . .and thus cancelling just to spite them?? I just don't see it. I think Fox execs pay a lot less attention to solicitations of comic books than Bleeding Cool does.
I actually wouldn't put it past the publishing division to try to leverage the rumors and the dissatisfaction amongst the FF comics fans for the upcoming reboot to try to sell us on this storied finale and later, back-to-basics, this IS your father's ALL NEW FF #1. To take the FF, which most readers have taken for granted for decades, away for a bit to see if you can actually get a slightly larger readership to want it back.
We'll see. But actually thinking the suits at Fox actually give a damn whether about roughly 30,000 copies (and dropping!) of a Fantastic Four monthly are or aren't in circulation next year when the movie comes out. . .and thus cancelling just to spite them?? I just don't see it. I think Fox execs pay a lot less attention to solicitations of comic books than Bleeding Cool does.
Again, it goes way beyond the comic. Nobody thinks 30,000 floppies drives movie ticket sales. What it comes down to is a public withdrawal of support for the franchise. In effect, the most successful studio in the business right now, with a brand that people regularly say "can do no wrong" (others words, not mine, but I've heard it many places) is giving another studio handling a franchise that most people who know anything at all (which is way more than we usually give the general public credit for) believe should be in the former's hands a huge vote of no confidence. And it becomes a news item attached to every other story about the Fox FF movie.
From this point forward every headline might as well be "Fox is making another Fantastic Four movie and Marvel doesn't want to have anything to do with it". Considering the "controversial" liberties Fox is taking, that kind of stance is pretty damaging.
Canceling the book is an easy way to bring this all out in the open, and it's easily reversible because the comic community expects relaunches now. But nothing about the book's current sales or trends says that it should have been on the chopping block.
And there is absolutely no reason to deny licenses, because all they do is generate revenue, and there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that's happening too.