I get what you are saying, and I know it is something you have been following and know your stuff on. And I could see how the optics of the comic cancellation (though I would guess "suspension" is going to end up being what it really is), as well as some of that anecdotal evidence could seem like this is Marvel distancing itself from the FF IPs.
But I also feel like Bleeding Cool and some other sites are trying to spin this a certain way, and here's why: The narrative that Marvel itself, like a certain core fanbase of FF fans, don't like what Fox is doing, and the controversial choices they have made for the reboot, is a great story. It is red meat thrown at the base, to borrow the partisan terminology. It is a spin that says, 'Hey look, Marvel dislikes what they are hearing just like you do!' It is a perfect story of them. Gets eyeballs. Gets comments threads going. Gets comics fans riled up about what these movies are doing to "their" characters, etc. To me, to spin this as a pissing match between the licensor and it's highest profile licensee-- with Marvel ostensibly taking the side of its core fans-- is almost too good to be true. And maybe isn't.
And, yes, that might actually be true. At the heart of this, as rumored, might be a suit at Marvel who currently is so mad about FF that he doesn't even want to see posters up in the offices, and wants even the publishing division to keep publishing an FF comic for now. . . but then end it with a big, likely well-promoted, triple-sized issue just a few months before the movie comes out.
Again, that could be true, but as executive temper tantrums go, I think there's been worse.
But I think there are also other ways these same things could be spun:
- We all know the last time FF moved any paper or got anyone talking about it was the "death" of Johnny Storm. It is too soon to pull that trick again, but it could be that a high-profile cancellation, an absence, and then a heralded return could actually sell some books. It is trick that has worked before. Only this time, instead of some other character take the mantle in the interim, you just make it an excuse for another #1. And it is not like those months without an FF book to sell will break the bank at publishing.
- Marvel may actually be waiting to see if the rebooted FF is a hit. I know that seems crazy talk around here, as it seems like a conclusion has been made this movie will be terrible and that mistakes were made. But as actual comics readers we are the minority opinion. There actually is a chance the rebooted FF, including a black Johnny Storm, will become the IP to be licensed. It wouldn't be the first time the films, if successful, have affected the look of the characters in the books, or added new or different versions of the characters to the books (wave to the folks at home, Nick Fury Jr.) It actually could be the case that Marvel's jury is out on the Fox reboot, and as the owners of these properties they are in the catbird seat to let Fox R&D these changes, and then they can decide later to buy in, too. Or, if it fails, then they roll out the "Classic Coke" FF again, and fans welcome them back with their dollars.
But if it goes the former way, then the smoother transition to a licensing change for the FF would be to not have a book on the stands, or more importantly, a lot of "Classic FF" licensed things in the works.
And, again, the opportunity cost of waiting and seeing is not great-- I mean, honestly, how much licensed FF stuff do you ever see out in the world? Sure, Diamond Select might have met a delay on making some figures. . . but you probably have to be as specialty as Diamond Select to even be requesting FF stuff for licensing anyway.
So, to be clear, I am not saying you are wrong. It could very well be that these rumors are true, and Bleeding Cool has the inside scoop on this.
But my default is to be suspicious of their spin. It benefits them to tell the story the way they are telling it. And if Marvel execs really wanted to distance themselves from Fox's FF, or even be so mad as to try to hurt the performance of the film, then there are much more effective ways to do it. A loose quote (or even speaking on background) to Variety or the Wall Street Journal is going to do a lot more than publishing a last issue of the FF comic (again).
We'll see. But my guess is that later we will either see (if Fox succeeds) a change to how the FF appears in Marvel's imaging across the board.
Or, this will be looked back on as a short term publishing stunt. And we will have another FF #1, and another cover to add to these:
I actually wouldn't put it past the publishing division to try to leverage the rumors and the dissatisfaction amongst the FF comics fans for the upcoming reboot to try to sell us on this storied finale and later, back-to-basics, this IS your father's ALL NEW FF #1. To take the FF, which most readers have taken for granted for decades, away for a bit to see if you can actually get a slightly larger readership to want it back.
For me, that's the positive out of all this. I love the FF, it's the title that got me into comics back in the early '80s, I grew up in an era when the FF was a standard part of Marvel's marketing (somewhere I still have an empty pouch of Fantastic Four gum packed away), but even I don't come running to every new relaunch. It's time to do a Thor, take them off the table for a while (trap them in the Negative Zone, send them into space, whatever you have to do), and make people want them again.
Maybe the movie will be a huge hit, and provide motivation for a new direction on the title. Or, fingers crossed, it'll bomb, Fox will finally give up a franchise they've never known what to do with, and Marvel can tackle the whole package.
- Marvel may actually be waiting to see if the rebooted FF is a hit. I know that seems crazy talk around here, as it seems like a conclusion has been made this movie will be terrible and that mistakes were made. But as actual comics readers we are the minority opinion. There actually is a chance the rebooted FF, including a black Johnny Storm, will become the IP to be licensed. It wouldn't be the first time the films, if successful, have affected the look of the characters in the books, or added new or different versions of the characters to the books (wave to the folks at home, Nick Fury Jr.) It actually could be the case that Marvel's jury is out on the Fox reboot, and as the owners of these properties they are in the catbird seat to let Fox R&D these changes, and then they can decide later to buy in, too. Or, if it fails, then they roll out the "Classic Coke" FF again, and fans welcome them back with their dollars.
But if it goes the former way, then the smoother transition to a licensing change for the FF would be to not have a book on the stands, or more importantly, a lot of "Classic FF" licensed things in the works.
I was typing my last post as you did yours, but that's what I was getting at toward the end.
Nothing has worked for the title so far, so why not see what the film does? If it's a big hit, change the comic to match it. If it's not, see what Marvel Studios thinks the best approach to the property would be, and do that.
IT seems like Disney/Marvel are purposely neglecting titles/merchandise not fully affiliated with the marvel studios brand. They see it as free publicity for their movie studio competitors. In Heroclix for instance, Fantastic Four ,Spider-man etc, will not be the marquee theme for newer sets (sub themes,yes) from here on out, especially during promo time for the others studios movies etc.
- Marvel may actually be waiting to see if the rebooted FF is a hit. I know that seems crazy talk around here, as it seems like a conclusion has been made this movie will be terrible and that mistakes were made. But as actual comics readers we are the minority opinion. There actually is a chance the rebooted FF, including a black Johnny Storm, will become the IP to be licensed. It wouldn't be the first time the films, if successful, have affected the look of the characters in the books, or added new or different versions of the characters to the books (wave to the folks at home, Nick Fury Jr.) It actually could be the case that Marvel's jury is out on the Fox reboot, and as the owners of these properties they are in the catbird seat to let Fox R&D these changes, and then they can decide later to buy in, too. Or, if it fails, then they roll out the "Classic Coke" FF again, and fans welcome them back with their dollars.
But if it goes the former way, then the smoother transition to a licensing change for the FF would be to not have a book on the stands, or more importantly, a lot of "Classic FF" licensed things in the works.
I was typing my last post as you did yours, but that's what I was getting at toward the end.
Nothing has worked for the title so far, so why not see what the film does? If it's a big hit, change the comic to match it. If it's not, see what Marvel Studios thinks the best approach to the property would be, and do that.
A thing that put this idea in my mind this morning was an episode of my new, favorite non-comics podcast, 99% Invisible. It is a podcast mostly about design, and often architecture, but more about how things that are designed meet up against culture and real life. I have listened to probably 50 of them in the last 2 weeks. Anyway, they have an episode about Superman as a design. It is short, much of it is an interview with Glen Weldon, who wrote Superman: An Unauthorized Biography. I don't think anything in the episode is stuff we haven't heard before, being who we are, but Weldon (I think it was him rather than the host), when talking about the development of Superman, puts it really succinctly when he says that in the early years, Superman went through a sort of 'public R&D process' where different powers and ideas were tried out in the comics, on the radio, in the animated shorts, etc., and they got to see how the public reacted to the different ideas, and keep what worked.
It occurred to me that- when it comes to another studio making movies with your property- you are basically in a position to let them spend on that R&D, and then you can decide to keep and use what you want; and even potentially counter-program and sell AGAINST their version, if you choose to, if what they do blows up in their face.
PS- 99% Invisible is an excellent podcast. That Superman episode is good, and well reported, but some others to maybe try that might be of interest to those of us around here are:
I Heart NT, TM (for those of us that enjoy the wonkishness of licensing and trademark law)
Future Screens are Mostly Blue about SF design and color palettes. And it also introduced me to the idea of "apologetics" for things in SF that seem to be nonsense, by might have a UI/UX explanation.
Ten Thousand Years about the challenge of creating toxic waste warning signage that could be understood by a culture 10,000 years from now.
- Marvel may actually be waiting to see if the rebooted FF is a hit. I know that seems crazy talk around here, as it seems like a conclusion has been made this movie will be terrible and that mistakes were made. But as actual comics readers we are the minority opinion. There actually is a chance the rebooted FF, including a black Johnny Storm, will become the IP to be licensed. It wouldn't be the first time the films, if successful, have affected the look of the characters in the books, or added new or different versions of the characters to the books (wave to the folks at home, Nick Fury Jr.) It actually could be the case that Marvel's jury is out on the Fox reboot, and as the owners of these properties they are in the catbird seat to let Fox R&D these changes, and then they can decide later to buy in, too. Or, if it fails, then they roll out the "Classic Coke" FF again, and fans welcome them back with their dollars.
But if it goes the former way, then the smoother transition to a licensing change for the FF would be to not have a book on the stands, or more importantly, a lot of "Classic FF" licensed things in the works.
I was typing my last post as you did yours, but that's what I was getting at toward the end.
Nothing has worked for the title so far, so why not see what the film does? If it's a big hit, change the comic to match it. If it's not, see what Marvel Studios thinks the best approach to the property would be, and do that.
A thing that put this idea in my mind this morning was an episode of my new, favorite non-comics podcast, 99% Invisible. It is a podcast mostly about design, and often architecture, but more about how things that are designed meet up against culture and real life. I have listened to probably 50 of them in the last 2 weeks. Anyway, they have an episode about Superman as a design. It is short, much of it is an interview with Glen Weldon, who wrote Superman: An Unauthorized Biography. I don't think anything in the episode is stuff we haven't heard before, being who we are, but Weldon (I think it was him rather than the host), when talking about the development of Superman, puts it really succinctly when he says that in the early years, Superman went through a sort of 'public R&D process' where different powers and ideas were tried out in the comics, on the radio, in the animated shorts, etc., and they got to see how the public reacted to the different ideas, and keep what worked.
I may be mistaken, but I think kryptonite was invented for the radio show. Maybe even his ability to fly. And I think the first Superman/Batman team-up was on the radio show.
I'm not overly familiar with the Fleischer cartoons, but don't they involve him fighting stuff like giant robots and monsters at a time when the comics still had him going after mobsters and such?
@David_D you make a lot of very good point and I think it's very possible for, even likely, that both points of view are true. But that's the nature of spin, right? All about interpreting facts. Either way it seems like Marvel gets what they want.
@David_D you make a lot of very good point and I think it's very possible for, even likely, that both points of view are true. But that's the nature of spin, right? All about interpreting facts. Either way it seems like Marvel gets what they want.
Agreed. I think the takeaway is that it is nice to be the owner. (At least, when you own things people care about!)
“I have to say quite honestly as I understand it now the X department is forbidden to create new characters.
(SHOCK RESPONSE)
“Well… who owns them?
“All because all new characters become the film property of Fox.
“There will be no X-Men merchandising for the foreseeable future because, why promote Fox material?”
I wonder how long before this also begins to apply to Deadpool. Since the Deadpool movie is being scheduled for release in February 2016 and is being produced by FOX. The X-Men: Days of Future Past writer and producer Simon Kinberg confirmed that the movie will be part of a shared cinematic universe with the other X-Men movies.
Spotted at the NYCC this weekend. Seem to portend a future we've all been hearing rumors about...
Certainly we know an(other) ending for FF comic is coming.
And sure the X-Men properties aren't being as featured in general Marvel promotional imaging as they used to be. But no one is actually even rumoring that they are getting rid of all the X-Men, and their 12 or so monthly titles, right? Because i think that would be crazy talk.
I would guess that "No More Mutants" will be a storyline or cover branding that will spin out of the current Axis story.
The story circulating is that Disney’s highest single shareholder and Marvel CEO Isaac Perlmutter is very angry with Fox Studios over negotiations regarding the film-and-related rights to The FF and has insisted that Marvel cancel the FF comic rather than provide any promotion, no matter how small it might be towards the Fox FF film.
Merchandise and licenses were scrapped and even Fantastic Four posters in the offices were pulled down so Perlmutter would not see one anywhere. It may not be logical, but it was a decision born of anger. FF may have been the first book of the Marvel U, but its sales have been dragging forever, even after multiple relaunches with high profile creators. There would be less of a hit to the bottom line if this comic was dropped.
The comic is being cancelled. A letter about sketch card artists being forbidden to use FF characters was made public, Mondo discussed being forbidden to use FF characters and Diamond Select Toys says they are unable to make any FF toys. (*info an verbage pulled mostly from BleedingCool)
Still think it's all just a marketing ploy to increase sales when they return the foursome in a year? I'm betting there will be no FF reunion until well after the reboot's DVD has been released, whether the movie does well or not.
The story circulating is that Disney’s highest single shareholder and Marvel CEO Isaac Perlmutter is very angry with Fox Studios over negotiations regarding the film-and-related rights to The FF and has insisted that Marvel cancel the FF comic rather than provide any promotion, no matter how small it might be towards the Fox FF film.
Merchandise and licenses were scrapped and even Fantastic Four posters in the offices were pulled down so Perlmutter would not see one anywhere. It may not be logical, but it was a decision born of anger. FF may have been the first book of the Marvel U, but its sales have been dragging forever, even after multiple relaunches with high profile creators. There would be less of a hit to the bottom line if this comic was dropped.
The comic is being cancelled. A letter about sketch card artists being forbidden to use FF characters was made public, Mondo discussed being forbidden to use FF characters and Diamond Select Toys says they are unable to make any FF toys. (*info an verbage pulled mostly from BleedingCool)
Still think it's all just a marketing ploy to increase sales when they return the foursome in a year? I'm betting there will be no FF reunion until well after the reboot's DVD has been released, whether the movie does well or not.
The story circulating is that Disney’s highest single shareholder and Marvel CEO Isaac Perlmutter is very angry with Fox Studios over negotiations regarding the film-and-related rights to The FF and has insisted that Marvel cancel the FF comic rather than provide any promotion, no matter how small it might be towards the Fox FF film.
Merchandise and licenses were scrapped and even Fantastic Four posters in the offices were pulled down so Perlmutter would not see one anywhere. It may not be logical, but it was a decision born of anger. FF may have been the first book of the Marvel U, but its sales have been dragging forever, even after multiple relaunches with high profile creators. There would be less of a hit to the bottom line if this comic was dropped.
The comic is being cancelled. A letter about sketch card artists being forbidden to use FF characters was made public, Mondo discussed being forbidden to use FF characters and Diamond Select Toys says they are unable to make any FF toys. (*info an verbage pulled mostly from BleedingCool)
Still think it's all just a marketing ploy to increase sales when they return the foursome in a year? I'm betting there will be no FF reunion until well after the reboot's DVD has been released, whether the movie does well or not.
To be clear, I never said it was ALL a marketing ploy, and that there was no truth to the rumors.
I said that, even if someone at Marvel is mad at Fox, that cancelling the monthly FF comic is a pretty strange (and, sadly, impotent) way for Marvel to actually affect Fox whatsoever. It is like a slap with a glove that they probably wouldn't even notice.
Now, I can believe there are Marvel suits mad at Fox suits. And as I said before, I can understand why Marvel would use their own, finite real estate on things like promo posters to feature IPs they own across all platforms, like Guardians and Ant-Man, instead of giving that face time to characters they don't control and cash in on across all platforms, like the FF. When you are spending your own money on something like that 75th Anniversary giveaway book, or hiring Alex Ross to make a giant poster of your characters, I can get that there is now a financial reason to feature the Marvel STUDIOS characters more heavily. But I think it is only in the Bleeding Cool spin zone that the motivation for this is instead a pissing match instead of business.
Put another way-- the narrative that Marvel is mad at Fox because they don't like the movie they are making and want to try to strike out at them for emotional reasons is an attractive Bleeding Cool rumor to spread. But doesn't make much sense. And in a corporation with shareholders and a lot of suits to please, there is only so much irrational motive to be tolerated.
But the fact that Marvel Studios, in a marketplace crowded with superhero franchises, are starting to see their own licensees as the competition? That I buy.
As for marketing ploys. I do think the print division may be trying to do the best they can with FF as a stubbornly mid-tier book. I think the print division is smart enough-- at a time when FF may not be getting support from the suits upstairs, and at a time when the characters may be rebranding-- to take a break and use the trick they have used before: either cancel (or change the mantle to someone else), get the sales bump on the exit, and then try to get new, higher opening number to fall from on the return, with a new #1 later.
How long of a break, and in what form the FF returns, will probably depend on how the movie is received.
The story circulating is that Disney’s highest single shareholder and Marvel CEO Isaac Perlmutter is very angry with Fox Studios over negotiations regarding the film-and-related rights to The FF and has insisted that Marvel cancel the FF comic rather than provide any promotion, no matter how small it might be towards the Fox FF film.
Merchandise and licenses were scrapped and even Fantastic Four posters in the offices were pulled down so Perlmutter would not see one anywhere. It may not be logical, but it was a decision born of anger. FF may have been the first book of the Marvel U, but its sales have been dragging forever, even after multiple relaunches with high profile creators. There would be less of a hit to the bottom line if this comic was dropped.
The comic is being cancelled. A letter about sketch card artists being forbidden to use FF characters was made public, Mondo discussed being forbidden to use FF characters and Diamond Select Toys says they are unable to make any FF toys. (*info an verbage pulled mostly from BleedingCool)
Still think it's all just a marketing ploy to increase sales when they return the foursome in a year? I'm betting there will be no FF reunion until well after the reboot's DVD has been released, whether the movie does well or not.
Also, at a Marvel panel at NYCC, current FF writer James Robinson confirmed the upcoming final issue, but also referred to the title as "going away for a while."
Not gone forever. Not cast out of the MU. Sounds like funnybook relaunch business as usual antics to me.
Marvel as comic book company has really let me down in the last several years to point now where I just don't want to read any of there books anymore even though I love a lot of there characters.
I'm only reading 1 book out of DC and Marvel so I'm very low on superhero comics right now.
And Marvel recently released teasers for yet another X-event next summer. I would say that Marvel's commitment to their X-books are as strong as ever. At least, the publishing division is not showing any sign of slowing down on the X-office output.
"Marvel's commitment to their X-books are as strong as ever" - sounds a wee bit hyperbolic. I like that, but don't necessarily agree with that statement in its entirety.
"Marvel's commitment to their X-books are as strong as ever" - sounds a wee bit hyperbolic. I like that, but don't necessarily agree with that statement in its entirety.
When it comes to the publishing division, what difference in their X-office output are you seeing? The talk that Marvel is dismantling the X-Men, or that there will actually be "No More Mutants" seems like it is only based on these rumors about Marvel vs. Fox. It doesn't seem to be from anything we are seeing in what Marvel publishes. Sure, I've also heard speculation that Marvel would like to make the Inhumans "their" X-Men. But you wouldn't know it by looking at the comics line. It isn't an Inhumans/Guardians crossover announced for next year. It is another Guardians/X-Men one.
So as more and more X-events get announced for 2015, on top of the one we are in the midst of right now (the second Avengers vs. X-Men event in almost as many years), it seems to me like business as usual.
And, to me, that is further proof that- whatever the suits at Marvel and Fox feel about each other's movies, the publishing division is not where those battles are being fought. Publishing seems to be trying to do its best to sell the comics it can in a tough market.
"Marvel's commitment to their X-books are as strong as ever" - sounds a wee bit hyperbolic. I like that, but don't necessarily agree with that statement in its entirety.
When it comes to the publishing division, what difference in their X-office output are you seeing? The talk that Marvel is dismantling the X-Men, or that there will actually be "No More Mutants" seems like it is only based on these rumors about Marvel vs. Fox. It doesn't seem to be from anything we are seeing in what Marvel publishes. Sure, I've also heard speculation that Marvel would like to make the Inhumans "their" X-Men. But you wouldn't know it by looking at the comics line. It isn't an Inhumans/Guardians crossover announced for next year. It is another Guardians/X-Men one.
So as more and more X-events get announced for 2015, on top of the one we are in the midst of right now (the second Avengers vs. X-Men event in almost as many years), it seems to me like business as usual.
And, to me, that is further proof that- whatever the suits at Marvel and Fox feel about each other's movies, the publishing division is not where those battles are being fought. Publishing seems to be trying to do its best to sell the comics it can in a tough market.
I'm not 100% certain if some people are glad Marvel isn't really killing off X-Men because of Fox owning the rights or upset that the X-Men aren't getting phased out like the FF reportedly will be.
"Marvel's commitment to their X-books are as strong as ever" - sounds a wee bit hyperbolic. I like that, but don't necessarily agree with that statement in its entirety.
When it comes to the publishing division, what difference in their X-office output are you seeing? The talk that Marvel is dismantling the X-Men, or that there will actually be "No More Mutants" seems like it is only based on these rumors about Marvel vs. Fox. It doesn't seem to be from anything we are seeing in what Marvel publishes. Sure, I've also heard speculation that Marvel would like to make the Inhumans "their" X-Men. But you wouldn't know it by looking at the comics line. It isn't an Inhumans/Guardians crossover announced for next year. It is another Guardians/X-Men one.
So as more and more X-events get announced for 2015, on top of the one we are in the midst of right now (the second Avengers vs. X-Men event in almost as many years), it seems to me like business as usual.
And, to me, that is further proof that- whatever the suits at Marvel and Fox feel about each other's movies, the publishing division is not where those battles are being fought. Publishing seems to be trying to do its best to sell the comics it can in a tough market.
I'm not 100% certain if some people are glad Marvel isn't really killing off X-Men because of Fox owning the rights or upset that the X-Men aren't getting phased out like the FF reportedly will be.
M
I can only speak for myself, but as a longtime fan of X-books, and as someone really enjoying All New and Uncanny right now, I am glad for them to just keep doing what they are doing, and not be affected by any political nonsense between movie studios.
Comments
@playdohsrepublic
I get what you are saying, and I know it is something you have been following and know your stuff on. And I could see how the optics of the comic cancellation (though I would guess "suspension" is going to end up being what it really is), as well as some of that anecdotal evidence could seem like this is Marvel distancing itself from the FF IPs.
But I also feel like Bleeding Cool and some other sites are trying to spin this a certain way, and here's why: The narrative that Marvel itself, like a certain core fanbase of FF fans, don't like what Fox is doing, and the controversial choices they have made for the reboot, is a great story. It is red meat thrown at the base, to borrow the partisan terminology. It is a spin that says, 'Hey look, Marvel dislikes what they are hearing just like you do!' It is a perfect story of them. Gets eyeballs. Gets comments threads going. Gets comics fans riled up about what these movies are doing to "their" characters, etc. To me, to spin this as a pissing match between the licensor and it's highest profile licensee-- with Marvel ostensibly taking the side of its core fans-- is almost too good to be true. And maybe isn't.
And, yes, that might actually be true. At the heart of this, as rumored, might be a suit at Marvel who currently is so mad about FF that he doesn't even want to see posters up in the offices, and wants even the publishing division to keep publishing an FF comic for now. . . but then end it with a big, likely well-promoted, triple-sized issue just a few months before the movie comes out.
Again, that could be true, but as executive temper tantrums go, I think there's been worse.
But I think there are also other ways these same things could be spun:
- We all know the last time FF moved any paper or got anyone talking about it was the "death" of Johnny Storm. It is too soon to pull that trick again, but it could be that a high-profile cancellation, an absence, and then a heralded return could actually sell some books. It is trick that has worked before. Only this time, instead of some other character take the mantle in the interim, you just make it an excuse for another #1. And it is not like those months without an FF book to sell will break the bank at publishing.
- Marvel may actually be waiting to see if the rebooted FF is a hit. I know that seems crazy talk around here, as it seems like a conclusion has been made this movie will be terrible and that mistakes were made. But as actual comics readers we are the minority opinion. There actually is a chance the rebooted FF, including a black Johnny Storm, will become the IP to be licensed. It wouldn't be the first time the films, if successful, have affected the look of the characters in the books, or added new or different versions of the characters to the books (wave to the folks at home, Nick Fury Jr.) It actually could be the case that Marvel's jury is out on the Fox reboot, and as the owners of these properties they are in the catbird seat to let Fox R&D these changes, and then they can decide later to buy in, too. Or, if it fails, then they roll out the "Classic Coke" FF again, and fans welcome them back with their dollars.
But if it goes the former way, then the smoother transition to a licensing change for the FF would be to not have a book on the stands, or more importantly, a lot of "Classic FF" licensed things in the works.
And, again, the opportunity cost of waiting and seeing is not great-- I mean, honestly, how much licensed FF stuff do you ever see out in the world? Sure, Diamond Select might have met a delay on making some figures. . . but you probably have to be as specialty as Diamond Select to even be requesting FF stuff for licensing anyway.
So, to be clear, I am not saying you are wrong. It could very well be that these rumors are true, and Bleeding Cool has the inside scoop on this.
But my default is to be suspicious of their spin. It benefits them to tell the story the way they are telling it. And if Marvel execs really wanted to distance themselves from Fox's FF, or even be so mad as to try to hurt the performance of the film, then there are much more effective ways to do it. A loose quote (or even speaking on background) to Variety or the Wall Street Journal is going to do a lot more than publishing a last issue of the FF comic (again).
We'll see. But my guess is that later we will either see (if Fox succeeds) a change to how the FF appears in Marvel's imaging across the board.
Or, this will be looked back on as a short term publishing stunt. And we will have another FF #1, and another cover to add to these:
Maybe the movie will be a huge hit, and provide motivation for a new direction on the title. Or, fingers crossed, it'll bomb, Fox will finally give up a franchise they've never known what to do with, and Marvel can tackle the whole package.
Nothing has worked for the title so far, so why not see what the film does? If it's a big hit, change the comic to match it. If it's not, see what Marvel Studios thinks the best approach to the property would be, and do that.
It occurred to me that- when it comes to another studio making movies with your property- you are basically in a position to let them spend on that R&D, and then you can decide to keep and use what you want; and even potentially counter-program and sell AGAINST their version, if you choose to, if what they do blows up in their face.
PS- 99% Invisible is an excellent podcast. That Superman episode is good, and well reported, but some others to maybe try that might be of interest to those of us around here are:
I Heart NT, TM (for those of us that enjoy the wonkishness of licensing and trademark law)
Future Screens are Mostly Blue about SF design and color palettes. And it also introduced me to the idea of "apologetics" for things in SF that seem to be nonsense, by might have a UI/UX explanation.
Ten Thousand Years about the challenge of creating toxic waste warning signage that could be understood by a culture 10,000 years from now.
And so many more. It is a really excellent show.
I'm not overly familiar with the Fleischer cartoons, but don't they involve him fighting stuff like giant robots and monsters at a time when the comics still had him going after mobsters and such?
I wonder how long before this also begins to apply to Deadpool. Since the Deadpool movie is being scheduled for release in February 2016 and is being produced by FOX. The X-Men: Days of Future Past writer and producer Simon Kinberg confirmed that the movie will be part of a shared cinematic universe with the other X-Men movies.
And sure the X-Men properties aren't being as featured in general Marvel promotional imaging as they used to be. But no one is actually even rumoring that they are getting rid of all the X-Men, and their 12 or so monthly titles, right? Because i think that would be crazy talk.
I would guess that "No More Mutants" will be a storyline or cover branding that will spin out of the current Axis story.
Merchandise and licenses were scrapped and even Fantastic Four posters in the offices were pulled down so Perlmutter would not see one anywhere. It may not be logical, but it was a decision born of anger. FF may have been the first book of the Marvel U, but its sales have been dragging forever, even after multiple relaunches with high profile creators. There would be less of a hit to the bottom line if this comic was dropped.
The comic is being cancelled. A letter about sketch card artists being forbidden to use FF characters was made public, Mondo discussed being forbidden to use FF characters and Diamond Select Toys says they are unable to make any FF toys. (*info an verbage pulled mostly from BleedingCool)
Still think it's all just a marketing ploy to increase sales when they return the foursome in a year? I'm betting there will be no FF reunion until well after the reboot's DVD has been released, whether the movie does well or not.
M
I said that, even if someone at Marvel is mad at Fox, that cancelling the monthly FF comic is a pretty strange (and, sadly, impotent) way for Marvel to actually affect Fox whatsoever. It is like a slap with a glove that they probably wouldn't even notice.
Now, I can believe there are Marvel suits mad at Fox suits. And as I said before, I can understand why Marvel would use their own, finite real estate on things like promo posters to feature IPs they own across all platforms, like Guardians and Ant-Man, instead of giving that face time to characters they don't control and cash in on across all platforms, like the FF. When you are spending your own money on something like that 75th Anniversary giveaway book, or hiring Alex Ross to make a giant poster of your characters, I can get that there is now a financial reason to feature the Marvel STUDIOS characters more heavily. But I think it is only in the Bleeding Cool spin zone that the motivation for this is instead a pissing match instead of business.
Put another way-- the narrative that Marvel is mad at Fox because they don't like the movie they are making and want to try to strike out at them for emotional reasons is an attractive Bleeding Cool rumor to spread. But doesn't make much sense. And in a corporation with shareholders and a lot of suits to please, there is only so much irrational motive to be tolerated.
But the fact that Marvel Studios, in a marketplace crowded with superhero franchises, are starting to see their own licensees as the competition? That I buy.
As for marketing ploys. I do think the print division may be trying to do the best they can with FF as a stubbornly mid-tier book. I think the print division is smart enough-- at a time when FF may not be getting support from the suits upstairs, and at a time when the characters may be rebranding-- to take a break and use the trick they have used before: either cancel (or change the mantle to someone else), get the sales bump on the exit, and then try to get new, higher opening number to fall from on the return, with a new #1 later.
How long of a break, and in what form the FF returns, will probably depend on how the movie is received.
Well, I also hear that FOX is seriously developing an X-Men live-action TV series based on Peter David's X-Factor run. If you recall, from 2001-2004, Marvel was producing the TV show Mutant X, but legal pressure from Fox forced Marvel to remove the show from the X-Men as much as possible and eventually cancel the program (ending on a cliffhanger)? That wouldn't be the case for this series, if it happens. So long as it doesn't have the same budget and lackluster scripting as their Generation X pilot or the marginally better Power Pack tv movie from 1991, it ought to be solid.
Nope.
He and his content have been sent down the memory hole.
I think, to borrow from Twain, reports of the death of X-titles at Marvel were exaggerated.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=56182
Not gone forever. Not cast out of the MU. Sounds like funnybook relaunch business as usual antics to me.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=56241
Oh, and in the same panel, they referred to 2015 as being a "big year for Deadpool in publishing". Deadpool, another property with movies at Fox.
I'm only reading 1 book out of DC and Marvel so I'm very low on superhero comics right now.
So as more and more X-events get announced for 2015, on top of the one we are in the midst of right now (the second Avengers vs. X-Men event in almost as many years), it seems to me like business as usual.
And, to me, that is further proof that- whatever the suits at Marvel and Fox feel about each other's movies, the publishing division is not where those battles are being fought. Publishing seems to be trying to do its best to sell the comics it can in a tough market.
M