More New 52 Cancellations - LSH, Demon Knights, Dial H, and Threshold

LibraryBoy

So sayeth Comic Book Resources.

And as someone pointed out on Twitter, that's pretty much it for New 52 books involving Sci-Fi or Fantasy settings for the time being. And though there's still All Star Western, the new solicitation for that indicates a VERY big change for that status quo. SPOILERS at the link, click at your peril - http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2013/05/13/the-edge-group-solicits-august-2013#2

We may need to start a support group for @Torchsong with this Demon Knights news.

Chuck_Melville

Here they are, folks: the latest DC titles to get the axe. Final issues shipping in August are...

Legion Of Super-Heroes #23
Demon Knights #23
Dial H #15
and Threshold #8.

It's tough when a DC book can't even get through a whole year...

comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=45466

Chuck_Melville

Hmm. Duplicate topic.

Greg

Sorry for your loss @Torchsong

Torchsong

I'll live. It's not like I didn't see it coming, folks. :)

LSH is a shame, though...but they'll return. They always do!

eduardo_sanchez

Do you think people make such a big deal about DC canceling titles because they do them in batches. I remember a time about a year ago where Marvel was canceling books before they even shipped a first issue. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a batch of new titles in September's solicits.

larry

I was reading Dial H and Threshold monthly and Demon Knights in trades. This is the first round of cancellations that I am really bummed about. I'm wondering though if Dial H and Threshold aren't just the end of their runs and not true cancellations.

Mr_Cosmic

I really, really wanted Threshold to be good..but, man, that's one awful book.

CaptShazam

How many of the original new 52 titles are left now?

David_D

@CaptShazam A blogger on the Beat counted 31.

LibraryBoy

Sub-question: How many of those remaining 31 have no ties to Superman, Batman, and/or the Justice League?

David_D

LibraryBoy said:

Sub-question: How many of those remaining 31 have no ties to Superman, Batman, and/or the Justice League?

A: 40.

DoctorDoom

Demon Knights! Nooooo!

hauberk

Pretty sure that the DC editors have come to us from the same training academy that is responsible for programming network television.

I've smiled and nodded and tried to be patient through the shakedown cruise. Unfortunately, I'm starting to think that the it's the Titanic's shakedown cruise.

I think that, maybe, for every title that I was enjoying that they cancel or do something to make cancellation inevitable, I might just drop another of my remaining DC titles in favor of alternative entertainment.

They've done it over and over, on titles but screwing with the Legion is a step beyond the pale. First they teabag the Legion Lost title by putting Tom DeFalco on it, then they start screwing with the artistss on Legion, do whatever they did to shorten Giffen's run on the book and, worst of all, let Scot Kolins touch it.

Dear DC Editorial, your services are no longer required.

electric_mayhem

Torchsong said:

I'll live. It's not like I didn't see it coming, folks. :)

LSH is a shame, though...but they'll return. They always do!

that is why they have a Time Bubble! Just don't let Colossus Boy near it, he can't pilot anything without crashing it.. ;)


*last comment brought to you by listening to hours and hours of LoSP, take a drink!

SolitaireRose

I have read that the Legion has been continuously in print for 40 years, but I was sure that when the axed the Legion/Legionnaires run it took a couple of months to get the new version launched.

What's killed the book (IMHO) is the nearly constant reboots since Crisis. Each time, they lose more of the long-=term readers, and the newer readers get bugged out when they start messing with continuity again and again.

As for the other books, not a single surprise in the lot, and looking at the sales charts, there WILL be more to come. DC is dropping books nearly monthly now and each "New wave" does worse. They just can't launch books any more, and I honestly think it's because they don't have name talent to bring in readers now that the New 52 stunt is over.

When will editors learn, it's not the CHARACTERS that sell a book unless it's Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine (and even that's not a sure thing any more) or a character of that level. If you're dredging up a character whose book died 25 years ago, you'd better have a name creator on it, or it's history in less than a year.

rebis

When Batman Inc. finishes I'll have only 1 DC book on my pull list.

Chuck_Melville

larry said:

I was reading Dial H and Threshold monthly and Demon Knights in trades. This is the first round of cancellations that I am really bummed about. I'm wondering though if Dial H and Threshold aren't just the end of their runs and not true cancellations.

No, these books were leaking sales with each issue. In the case of Demon Knights the surprise isn't that it was cancelled, but that it hadn't been cancelled sooner. Someone up high liked it enough to give it a little more rope.

Threshold was leaking sales by the bucketload almost right out of the gate. While I can't give any solid reason for it, I can speculate the following: A) Larfleeze was not the lead. B) The Hunted was something of a goulash, throwing together any old unused DC space characters they could scrape up and make as uninteresting as possible. I might have liked the Star Rovers better if they hadn't been a band of cynical slackers. C) The lead in The Hunted was a Green Lantern who was unaffected by much of anything going on in the rest of the GL franchise, which never did make sense. D) Cap'n K'rot.

As for Dial H, I can't help but feel that the series was doomed from the beginning because the concept was awfully contrary to the original concept, that of the concept of wish fulfillment. The original series, both the original Robby Reed incarnation and the later King siblings incarnation, were light and breezy with more of an emphasis on the fun and imaginative; you didn't need to do anything more but come along for the ride. This version was too dark. It was imaginative, but always felt more like a twisted distortion -- a dark reflection of the original. Not so much fun.

Next on the chopping block? The most likely contenders are Batwing (which I've just dropped, following the inexplicable switch from an African hero to an American operating in Africa), Phantom Stranger, and probably Stormwatch (the last of the Wildstorm titles).

John_Steed

rebis said:

When Batman Inc. finishes I'll have only 1 DC book on my pull list.

if that happens I got no DC book left to read

Matt

I know people aren't too happy right now, but I would like to throw out there that Dynamite Entertainment has amazing pulp comic books. Just throwing that out there for those with a dwindling pull list.

M

Chuck_Melville

CaptShazam said:

How many of the original new 52 titles are left now?

David_D said:

@CaptShazam A blogger on the Beat counted 31.

I counted 30. How many are not connected to the JLA, Superman, Batman or GL? 4. We can see where this universe compression is going.

There are actually three more titles I would consider to be in danger of being on the next cancellation lists: Katana, Vibe and All-Star Western. ASW is finally settling in at about 18,000 units a month, but is now the lowest selling title of the remaining original New52 (apart from the ones I mentioned previously), whereas the other two started out at under 30,000 units and then took a nearly 30% drop with their second issues, much steeper than anticipated and not a very healthy sales trend.

Also: not mentioned is the apparent cancellation of Batman Beyond Unlimited -- or, at least, I never saw any notice of it -- in order to make way for the new Batman Beyond Universe -- which, so far as I can tell, is the exact same book with a new title and numbering. WTF!?

nweathington

SolitaireRose said:

I have read that the Legion has been continuously in print for 40 years, but I was sure that when the axed the Legion/Legionnaires run it took a couple of months to get the new version launched.

What's killed the book (IMHO) is the nearly constant reboots since Crisis. Each time, they lose more of the long-=term readers, and the newer readers get bugged out when they start messing with continuity again and again.

As for the other books, not a single surprise in the lot, and looking at the sales charts, there WILL be more to come. DC is dropping books nearly monthly now and each "New wave" does worse. They just can't launch books any more, and I honestly think it's because they don't have name talent to bring in readers now that the New 52 stunt is over.

When will editors learn, it's not the CHARACTERS that sell a book unless it's Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine (and even that's not a sure thing any more) or a character of that level. If you're dredging up a character whose book died 25 years ago, you'd better have a name creator on it, or it's history in less than a year.

While I agree with you for the most part on the problem with the Legion books, I think the cancelled books suffered far less from not having “name talent” than from the editorial restrictions placed on that talent. There is name talent, and then there is Name Talent. Yes, Neil Gaiman writing Demon Knights would have sold much better, but how many names can you really say that about? I can count them on one hand.

What editors have learned over the past 70-plus years, is that it is the characters that sell a book—at least when it comes to DC and Marvel. Unless you have one of those names I can count on one hand—and they can’t write and draw your whole line—history has shown that putting a big name on a B-list character’s book only helps sales significantly for three to six months. After that, sales drop to about where you would expect them to be if you had a “no-name talent” on the book. There are exceptions, of course, but they are far and few between.

You said it yourself, “If you're dredging up a character whose book died 25 years ago, you'd better have a name creator on it, or it's history in less than a year.” If the character is not popular, it will not sell well unless you have one of those Name Talents—again, which I can count on one hand. The trick is to get it to sell well enough, and I think that’s where the editorial restrictions are hindering the books.

WetRats

Chuck_Melville said:

Here they are, folks: the latest DC titles to get the axe. Final issues shipping in August are...

Legion Of Super-Heroes #23

And good riddance.

This last, desperate, kill-fest storyline has already cancelled the book in my heart.

Bah.

mwhitt80

2 more DC books are going to come off my trade list. I liked Demon Knights and Dial H. Ohh well it will make future cuts a lot easier (once the final trades are solicited).

ctowner1

so how many of the original 52 are left now??

e
L nny

Torchsong

Demon Knights to me was a quality book with excellent writing, plotting and artwork throughout its run. From the moment I realized that another fact crept into my brain: This book will never last. :)

About 7 years or so ago I stopped buy Big Two books altogether. My singles money was spent totally on indie books that I felt could benefit more from that single issue purchase. Then, for a brief moment, DC called my bluff and gave me some books I actually wanted to read in single-issue format again. Marvel followed suit (I hadn't bought a Marvel single issue with any regularity for even longer).

I'm looking at my latest DCBS order and it's slowly creeping back to trades only...I'll be picking up the final Legion and Demon Knights trades (if they make 'em), but they've really gone out of their way to make it difficult to be a fan of their stuff. (Loving Fearless Defenders right now though!)

ctowner1

Is it what I posted below? How many still have the same Writer/Artist teams? AFAIK Batman and Batman & Robin. Others?

HERE:
1. ACTION COMICS: Grant Morrison & Rags Morales
2. ALL-STAR WESTERN #1 Writers: Justin Gray, Jimmy Palmiotti Artist: Moritat
3. ANIMAL MAN #1 Writer: Jeff Lemire Artists: Travel Foreman, Dan Green
4. AQUAMAN #1 Writer: Geoff Johns Artist: Ivan Reis
5. BATGIRL #1 Writer: Gail Simone Artists: Ardian Syaf, Vicente Cifuentes
6. BATMAN #1 Writer: Scott Snyder Artist: Greg Capullo
7. BATMAN AND ROBIN #1 Writer: Peter Tomasi Artist: Pat Gleason
8. BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #1 Writer/Artist: David Finch
9. BATWING #1 Writer: Judd Winick Artist: Ben Oliver
10. BATWOMAN #1 Writer: J.H.Williams III/Haden Blackman,Artist:J.H.WIII/Amy Reeder
11. BIRDS OF PREY #1 Writer: Duane Swierczynski Artist: Jesus Saiz
12. CATWOMAN #1 Writer: Judd Winick Artist: Guillem March
13. DETECTIVE COMICS #1 Writer/Artist: Tony Daniel
14. FLASH #1 Writers: FrManapul, Brian Buccellato Artist: Brian Buccellato
15. GREEN ARROW #1 Writer: JT Krul Artist: Dan Jurgens
16. GREEN LANTERN #1 Writer: GeoJohns Artists: Doug Mahnke, Christian Alamy
17. GREEN LANTERN CORPS #1 Writer: PTomasi Artists: F Pasarin, Scott Hanna
18. GREEN LANTERN: NEW GUARDIANS #1 Writer: TBedard Artist: Ty Kirkham
19. JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 Writer: Geoff Johns Artist: Jim Lee
20. JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 Writer: Peter Milligan Artist: Mikel Janin
21. NIGHTWING #1 Writer: Kyle Higgins Artist: Eddy Barrows
22. RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #1 Writer: SLobdell Artist: Kenneth Rocafort
23. RED LANTERNS #1 Writer: Peter Milligan Artists: Ed Benes, Rob Hunter
24. SAVAGE HAWKMAN #1 Writer: Tony Daniel Artist: Philip Tan
25. STORMWATCH #1 Writer: Paul Cornell Artist: Miguel Sepulveda
26. SUICIDE SQUAD: Adam Glass & Marco Rudy
27. SUPERBOY: Scott Lobdell with art by R.B. Silva and Rob Lean
28. SUPERGIRL: Writers Michael Green and Mike Johnson & artist Mahmud Asrar
29. SUPERMAN: written by George Perez with art by Jesus Merino
30. SWAMP THING #1 Writer: Scott Snyder Artist: Yannick Paquette
31. TEEN TITANS #1 Writer: Scott Lobdell Artists: Brett Booth, Norm Rapmund
32. WONDER WOMAN #1 Writer: Brian Azzarello Artist: Cliff Chiang

GONE:
1. BLACKHAWKS #1 Writer: Mike Costa Artist: Ken Lashley
2. BLUE BEETLE: Writer: Tony Bedard and Art by Ig Guara & Ruy Jose
3. CAPTAIN ATOM #1 Writer: JT Krul Artist: Freddie Williams
4. DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS #1 Writer: Paul Jenkins Artist: Bernard Chang
5. DEATHSTROKE #1 Writer: Kyle Higgins Artists: Joe Bennett, Art Thibert
6. DEMON KNIGHTS #1 Writer: Paul Cornell Artists: Diogenes Neves, Oclair Albert
7. FURY OF FIRESTORM #1 Writers: EVSciver, GSimone Artist: Yildiray Cinar
8. FRANKENSTEIN, AGENT OF SHADE #1 Writer: JLemire Artist: Alb Ponticelli
9. GRIFTER #1 Writer: Nathan Edmondson Artist: CAFU, BIT
10. HAWK AND DOVE #1 Writer: Sterling Gates Artist: Rob Liefeld
11. I VAMPIRE #1 Writer: Josh Fialkov Artist: Andrea Sorrentino
12. JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL #1 Writer: DJurgens Artist: Aaron Lopresti
13. LEGION LOST #1 Writer: Fabian Nicieza Artist: Pete Woods
14. LEGION OF SUPERHEROES #1 Writer: Paul Levitz Artist: Francis Portela
15. MISTER TERRIFIC #1 Writer: Eric Wallace Artist: Roger Robinson
16. OMAC #1 Writer: Dan DiDio, Keith Giffen Artists: Keith Giffen, Scott Koblish
17. RESURRECTION MAN #1 Writers: Abnett/Lanning Artist: Fernando Dagnino
18. SGT. ROCK AND MEN OF WAR #1 Writer: Ivan Brandon Artist: Tom Derenick
19. STATIC SHOCK #1 W: Jn Rozum, SMcDaniel A: SMcDaniel, Jonathan Glapion
20. VOODOO #1 Writer: Ron Marz Artist: Sami Basri

mwhitt80

Torchsong said:

I'm looking at my latest DCBS order and it's slowly creeping back to trades only...I'll be picking up the final Legion and Demon Knights trades (if they make 'em), but they've really gone out of their way to make it difficult to be a fan of their stuff.

I know there have been all kinds of complaints about DC's trade policy, and by relaunching everything at once it made trading the books really difficult. It's thrown me for a loop. DC has made it difficult to be a fan just because I've had to wait on such a wonky trade schedule.
I will give one bright spot that I would have never thought would be true, Wonder Woman. I have really liked the lunchbox in the Post-Flashpoint DC. That has been an enjoyable book.

Chuck_Melville

Savage Hawkman was also cancelled. Which would put the count of survivors at 31 after all, and not 30 like I counted.

DoctorDoom

Honestly, DC may be (temporarily) killing my interest in comics altogether.

I've got a huge stack from multiple companies that I'm hesitant to start just because I know there's a bunch of DC to get through. And DC's made me cynical about Marvel Now, which I haven't touched and is in that stack.

I know, it's unfair. I just.... don't feel the same way I did a year ago.

BlackUmbrella

I wish digital changed the profitability landscape for some of these second-tier books with small devoted audiences. Even if they just put out 12 pages a month digital only or something and charged $1.99. But I guess there's no money there yet.