I wish digital changed the profitability landscape for some of these second-tier books with small devoted audiences. Even if they just put out 12 pages a month digital only or something and charged $1.99. But I guess there's no money there yet.
Do we even have any data on the digital book sales? All I ever see quoted are the Direct Shop numbers.
Given the number of cancellations, it doesn't seem like the digital sales are making any difference at all.
Is it what I posted below? How many still have the same Writer/Artist teams? AFAIK Batman and Batman & Robin. Others?
Azzy and Chang are still on Wonder Woman, although occasionally there's a replacement artist but it seems to always come back to Chang.
Using your list, here's what I'm still following and used to follow.
HERE: 2. ALL-STAR WESTERN #1 - Trade only. Love this series. 4. AQUAMAN #1- Single Issues. Still enjoying but will likely drop. 5. BATGIRL #1 - Trade only 6. BATMAN #1 - Singles and double-dip for trades. Art and writing is really good. 8. BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #1 - Dropping like bad habit once subscription is up 10. BATWOMAN #1 - Trade only 13. DETECTIVE COMICS #1 - Trade only 19. JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 = Trade only 20. JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 - Trade only 22. RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #1 - Singles 28. SUPERGIRL: Singles and double-dip for trades. Kara's my fave, no matter how they create her 30. SWAMP THING #1 - Trade only. Love this series 31. TEEN TITANS #1 - Trade only. 32. WONDER WOMAN #1 - Single issues. Best book DC is putting out right now.
GONE: 1. BLACKHAWKS #1 - Own the trade. Wanted this idea to work so bad. Surprisingly not a bad series when read in trade format. A for effort on DC's part. 6. DEMON KNIGHTS #1 - *sob*.... :) 9. GRIFTER #1 - Friend of mine does the inking 10. HAWK AND DOVE #1 - Own the trade. Hate the art, love the characters. 13. LEGION LOST #1 - Own the one trade, getting the second one. 14. LEGION OF SUPERHEROES #1 - Singles (digital) and trades. 17. RESURRECTION MAN - Singles. Glad they let them close the storyline.
So that's 20 books I backed completely out of the New 52. 5 of which I'm still buying single issues of and will likely pare down to three shortly.
I have read that the Legion has been continuously in print for 40 years, but I was sure that when the axed the Legion/Legionnaires run it took a couple of months to get the new version launched.
What's killed the book (IMHO) is the nearly constant reboots since Crisis. Each time, they lose more of the long-=term readers, and the newer readers get bugged out when they start messing with continuity again and again.
As for the other books, not a single surprise in the lot, and looking at the sales charts, there WILL be more to come. DC is dropping books nearly monthly now and each "New wave" does worse. They just can't launch books any more, and I honestly think it's because they don't have name talent to bring in readers now that the New 52 stunt is over.
When will editors learn, it's not the CHARACTERS that sell a book unless it's Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine (and even that's not a sure thing any more) or a character of that level. If you're dredging up a character whose book died 25 years ago, you'd better have a name creator on it, or it's history in less than a year.
I concur with your first statement. I also pretty much concur with your second statement. I don't know that I agree with the last statement. While there are plenty of people that will follow a creator wherever they go, there are other readers, like me, that will follow creators to certain places, but are also fans of specific characters. The flip side to this is that there are also creators that will absolutely repel readers from some books (OSC on Superman for instance or, in my case, JRJR on anything - my worst nightmare would be a JRJR illustrated Legion book).
...my worst nightmare would be a JRJR illustrated Legion book).
Your worst nightmare would be a 'must buy' for me! I'd buy a Legion book with JRJR on it in a New York minute! For that matter, any DC book with Romita Jr would be perfectly fine with me. Doubt it'll come to pass, but stranger things have happened in the biz...
Is it what I posted below? How many still have the same Writer/Artist teams? AFAIK Batman and Batman & Robin. Others?
Azzy and Chang are still on Wonder Woman, although occasionally there's a replacement artist but it seems to always come back to Chang.
Using your list, here's what I'm still following and used to follow.
HERE: 2. ALL-STAR WESTERN #1 - Trade only. Love this series. 4. AQUAMAN #1- Single Issues. Still enjoying but will likely drop. 5. BATGIRL #1 - Trade only 6. BATMAN #1 - Singles and double-dip for trades. Art and writing is really good. 8. BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #1 - Dropping like bad habit once subscription is up 10. BATWOMAN #1 - Trade only 13. DETECTIVE COMICS #1 - Trade only 19. JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 = Trade only 20. JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 - Trade only 22. RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #1 - Singles 28. SUPERGIRL: Singles and double-dip for trades. Kara's my fave, no matter how they create her 30. SWAMP THING #1 - Trade only. Love this series 31. TEEN TITANS #1 - Trade only. 32. WONDER WOMAN #1 - Single issues. Best book DC is putting out right now.
GONE: 1. BLACKHAWKS #1 - Own the trade. Wanted this idea to work so bad. Surprisingly not a bad series when read in trade format. A for effort on DC's part. 6. DEMON KNIGHTS #1 - *sob*.... :) 9. GRIFTER #1 - Friend of mine does the inking 10. HAWK AND DOVE #1 - Own the trade. Hate the art, love the characters. 13. LEGION LOST #1 - Own the one trade, getting the second one. 14. LEGION OF SUPERHEROES #1 - Singles (digital) and trades. 17. RESURRECTION MAN - Singles. Glad they let them close the storyline.
So that's 20 books I backed completely out of the New 52. 5 of which I'm still buying single issues of and will likely pare down to three shortly.
I'm doing a little bit better. I started out with all 52 and had pared it down to an even dozen. One of those, Legion Of Super-Heroes, just got cancelled and I just dropped Batwing because of the changes within the book, so now I'm down to ten. I expect at least one more to get cancelled soon, and there are four or five others I'm seriously considering dropping.
Using the list, here's what I'm still reading, either pulled from LCS (about 10 titles), or grabbing at a dollar less on Comixology/Amazon (about 5 titles), or in $1 bins up to a year later (about 5 titles)... That's 20 books:
1. ACTION COMICS: Grant Morrison & Rags Morales 3. ANIMAL MAN #1 Writer: Jeff Lemire Artists: Travel Foreman, Dan Green 4. AQUAMAN #1 Writer: Geoff Johns Artist: Ivan Reis 5. BATGIRL #1 Writer: Gail Simone Artists: Ardian Syaf, Vicente Cifuentes 6. BATMAN #1 Writer: Scott Snyder Artist: Greg Capullo 7. BATMAN AND ROBIN #1 Writer: Peter Tomasi Artist: Pat Gleason 10. BATWOMAN #1 Writer: J.H.Williams III/Haden Blackman,Artist:J.H.WIII/Amy Reeder 13. DETECTIVE COMICS #1 Writer/Artist: Tony Daniel 14. FLASH #1 Writers: FrManapul, Brian Buccellato Artist: Brian Buccellato 15. GREEN ARROW #1 Writer: JT Krul Artist: Dan Jurgens 16. GREEN LANTERN #1 Writer: GeoJohns Artists: Doug Mahnke, Christian Alamy 17. GREEN LANTERN CORPS #1 Writer: PTomasi Artists: F Pasarin, Scott Hanna 18. GREEN LANTERN: NEW GUARDIANS #1 Writer: TBedard Artist: Ty Kirkham 19. JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 Writer: Geoff Johns Artist: Jim Lee 20. JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 Writer: Peter Milligan Artist: Mikel Janin 21. NIGHTWING #1 Writer: Kyle Higgins Artist: Eddy Barrows 22. RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #1 Writer: SLobdell Artist: Kenneth Rocafort 23. RED LANTERNS #1 Writer: Peter Milligan Artists: Ed Benes, Rob Hunter 30. SWAMP THING #1 Writer: Scott Snyder Artist: Yannick Paquette 32. WONDER WOMAN #1 Writer: Brian Azzarello Artist: Cliff Chiang
With the exception of Justice League, everything I was enjoying from the new 52 got the axe, and DC didn't bring out anything new that caught my interest to replace the cancelled titles. Then I cancelled JL because it just wasn't any good, and as it was the only DC title I was getting I figure "what's the point".
So in the span of just over a year, I went from about a dozen pre-new 52 DC titles on my pull list to zero.
There were 15 of the 52 nu52 books that I read beyond issue #1. Now I'm down to 5:
Buying: BATMAN #1 Writer: Scott Snyder Artist: Greg Capullo BATMAN AND ROBIN #1 Writer: Peter Tomasi Artist: Pat Gleason BATWOMAN #1 Writer: J.H.Williams III/Haden Blackman,Artist:J.H.WIII/Amy Reeder FLASH #1 Writers: FrManapul, Brian Buccellato Artist: Brian Buccellato JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 Writer: Geoff Johns Artist: Jim Lee
Dropped: ACTION COMICS: Grant Morrison & Rags Morales ANIMAL MAN #1 Writer: Jeff Lemire Artists: Travel Foreman, Dan Green BATGIRL #1 Writer: Gail Simone Artists: Ardian Syaf, Vicente Cifuentes FRANKENSTEIN, AGENT OF SHADE #1 Writer: JLemire Artist: Alb Ponticelli GREEN LANTERN #1 Writer: GeoJohns Artists: Doug Mahnke, Christian Alamy JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 Writer: Peter Milligan Artist: Mikel Janin STORMWATCH #1 Writer: Paul Cornell Artist: Miguel Sepulveda SUPERMAN: written by George Perez with art by Jesus Merino SWAMP THING #1 Writer: Scott Snyder Artist: Yannick Paquette WONDER WOMAN #1 Writer: Brian Azzarello Artist: Cliff Chiang
Although I'm also buying Earth 2 (but it's on the bubble about to be dropped), and Constantine (but it's just on a 1st arc tryout and will likely be dropped).
I will say that the nu52's appear to have held their value at least - I sold around 14 issue (1-14) runs of Animal Man, Green Lantern, Swamp Thing, JL Dark on eBay, and recovered over cover price on all of them, which is rare for sales of new comics (I guess perhaps the #1's drove the price?).
Following TS's list I went all trades with DC when they relaunched
1. ACTION COMICS: I like Superman 2. ALL-STAR WESTERN: one of my favorites 3. ANIMAL MAN: 2 trades 4. AQUAMAN: dropped after the1st trade 6. BATMAN: dropped after the 2nd trade 13. DETECTIVE COMICS: dropped after 2nd trade 14. FLASH: dropped after 1st trade 19. JUSTICE LEAGUE: dropped after 2nd trade 20. JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK: I enjoyed the 1st trade so we will see if it stays 25. STORMWATCH: I like this series 26. SUICIDE SQUAD: I'm sticking with this for maybe one more try, Unknown soldier is joining the cast 29. SUPERMAN: sticking with this until I read 2nd trade 30. SWAMP THING: 2 trades 32. WONDER WOMAN: It's a coin toss between this and All Star Western for best DC series GONE: 6. DEMON KNIGHTS: you will be missed 8. FRANKENSTEIN, AGENT OF SHADE: boy the 2nd trade went off the rails. I love the first volume though 11. I VAMPIRE: I stuck this one out 16. OMAC: if we lived in a just world you'd still be punching out bad guys Buddy Blank
Here's what I have learned from the New 52. I still do not like Batman. Flash was ok, as was JL and Aquaman. Wonder Woman always has a great series right after DC restarts (see Perez Wonder Woman).
1. ACTION COMICS: Loved it; the only Superman title I really enjoyed. But Morrison's gone now and the book is now following the same uneasy course as the main title. I just dropped it from my list. 2. ALL-STAR WESTERN A solid winner in my book; still with it. 3. ANIMAL MAN Bored to death by the Rotworld story; dropped it after a year. 4. AQUAMAN Also a winner, one of the best of the New52. Still with it. 5. BATGIRL Not bad... but my money was best put elsewhere. Dropped early on. 6. BATMAN Lost me after the Court Of Owls story. Dropped. 7. BATMAN AND ROBIN Enjoyed it up until Death In The Family, at which point I skipped out. 8. BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT Not worth my money. Dropped. 9. BATWING Enjoyed this one until they decided to remove the lead character and replace him with a Gotham substitute. Dropped. 10. BATWOMAN Boring. Dropped after #6. 11. BIRDS OF PREY Interesting, but not enough. Dropped early on. 12. CATWOMAN Didn't like the new iteration. Dropped very quickly. 13. DETECTIVE COMICS Dropped after Court Of Owls. 14. FLASH Still reading, but finding it more of a disappointment all the time. May be dropping soon. 15. GREEN ARROW Enjoyed the opening issues, but this was one of the first books to undergo a lot of editorial interference. Dropped as soon as Ann Nocenti took over the writing. 16. GREEN LANTERN The GL books are borderline interesting, but they seemed to have lost a lot of momentum (and clarity of story) after the reboot. Still reading but may be dropping after the change in writers. Wait and see. 17. GREEN LANTERN CORPS See Green Lantern. 18. GREEN LANTERN: NEW GUARDIANS See Green Lantern. 19. JUSTICE LEAGUE Still reading, but the series just hasn't felt right since it started, like I was reading an Elseworlds story. I'm still there, but I'm still hoping for better. Plus, so far I'm not liking the new hooded Captain Marvel. 20. JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK Surprisingly better than I expected. Still reading. 21. NIGHTWING Couldn't get interested in the new series. Dropped early on. 22. RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS Dropped very early on. 23. RED LANTERNS See Green Lantern. 24. SAVAGE HAWKMAN This one just had me baffled from the very beginning. I didn't know who this was or how it connected in any way whatsoever with any earlier incarnation of Hawkman, and I felt like I was dropped right into the 12th chapter of a serial. Didn't have the patience to see it through. Dropped almost immediately. 25. STORMWATCH I thought this was a better 'Justice League' than Justice League itself. I'm still with it, but am not quite sure I appreciate Jim Starlin's 'reboot'. But it's Starlin, and the series probably won't last much longer anyway. I'm good until the end. 26. SUICIDE SQUAD with the new svelte Amanda Waller and butt-ugly Harley Quinn. Dropped like a hot potato. 27. SUPERBOY Most 'alien' Superboy to date. I found him unlikeable right from the start. Dropped. 28. SUPERGIRL Wasn't hooked. Dropped. 29. SUPERMAN What a mess this book has been right from the get-go! Writers and artists were dropping from the series like flies in a bug-zapper, complaining of management interference; series never seemed to gel with the stories in Action; butt-ugly version of the famous costume... like Justice League, it feels like a badly written Elseworlds story. I held on for awhile, but eventually threw my hands up in surrender and dropped the series. 30. SWAMP THING See Animal Man. 31. TEEN TITANS Most unlikeable and unreadable iteration yet. Dropped. 32. WONDER WOMAN Probably most original and very interesting handling of the character to date, but I wasn't sufficiently hooked enough to continue. It was a borderline decision, but I felt my money was better spent elsewhere. Dropped after a year.
GONE: 1. BLACKHAWKS Who were these guys!? Didn't matter; they died quickly. I stayed until the end. 2. BLUE BEETLE I liked the pre New52 stories better. Dropped after a year. 3. CAPTAIN ATOM I don't know what they were trying to do here. Captain Atom was never more dull, and Freddie Williams' art, usually so very good, was never muddier. I stayed for the entire unmemorable run, which was mercifully brief. 4. DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS I like tryout titles. I stayed with it until it started turning into a Teen Titans auxillary title. Dropped, though I did buy the last issue. 5. DEATHSTROKE Didn't like. Dropped it immediately. 6. DEMON KNIGHTS I dropped this one after a year, very reluctantly. It was another one of those borderline decisions, and I thought I could use my money better elsewhere. But I thought it had some promise. 7. FURY OF FIRESTORM I wanted to like it, but hated the drastic and (IMO) unnecessary changes to the concept. Dropped early on. 8. FRANKENSTEIN, AGENT OF SHADE I enjoyed this one a great deal, and stayed until the end. 9. GRIFTER Didn't care. Dropped immediately. 10. HAWK AND DOVE Rob Liefeld drew it. I ran screaming from it. 11. I VAMPIRE I had no hopes for this one at all, but found it surprisingly better than I'd imagined it would be. Although it started to lose it's way about halfway through the series, I stayed with it all the way to the end. 12. JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL Frankly, the book died too soon. 13. LEGION LOST Cheap tie-in to an earlier, better series of the same name. This one just didn't work, no matter who wrote it. But I stayed until the last issue. 14. LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES Better, but still reeking of upper mismanagement. Even the talented Paul Levitz couldn't get past that. But I'm still there. 15. MISTER TERRIFIC I thought this one had promise. Died too soon. 16. OMAC Not one of the best, but at least had more genuine energy to it. I honestly don't know if it could have survived much longer anyway, but I stayed with it. 17. RESURRECTION MAN One of the better titles, though not (IMO) as good as the original series. I hung in until the end. 18. MEN OF WAR Had an interesting approach, mixing war stories with the general DCU's meta-world, but died too soon. 19. STATIC SHOCK Wanted to like it, but the creator conflicts drained the energy out of the series. Stayed to the end. 20. VOODOO Dropped immediately
ACTION COMICS - 3 issues, with the intention of maybe getting the trades, but haven't yet. ALL-STAR WESTERN - Read and enjoyed first trade, will get the second one of these days. ANIMAL MAN - 6 or 7 issues. It was just moving way too slowly, and the ever-encroaching Rot crossover w/ Swamp Thing didn't interest me. AQUAMAN - 15 or 16 issues, I think? Didn't wanna get sucked into a crossover, and I was kind of losing interest anyway. BATMAN - 7 or 8 issues, dropped just prior to Night of the Owls because I didn't want to get sucked into a HUGE crossover. BATWOMAN - Read first trade and kind of hated it as much as I enjoyed the previous Rucka / Williams III collection. CATWOMAN - 4 or 5 issues... never hated it like some did from the get-go, but I lost interest. SUPERGIRL - Got about 18 or 19 issues in, but that crossover killed my interest dead. SUPERMAN - 3 issues. Dropped or being so very, very overwritten. WONDER WOMAN - 3 issues, intend to go back and get at least the first trade.
GONE: DEMON KNIGHTS - 8 or 9 issues, the pacing on this just killed my interest. Liked it well-enough, but it took a long time for anything to happen, and even that far in, I still couldn't remember the names of the woman with the horse, the Amazon, or the inventor guy because they never seemed to get to do much.
Yeah it was the DA-DANG of DC dropping books right & left yesterday. All I am doing is reading select Superman & Batman books & buying select pre-Flashpoint DC tpbs plus Fables/Fairest w/ American Vampire to get my comics fix from DC these days.
So does DC try to reboot the entire line again and if so when do you think they do it? If not, what is their Plan B? Do they just make everything a Superman/Batman/Justice League related book?
I thought Demon Knights, JLI, and JL Dark all started slowly or just badly, but really turned it around. Too bad about DK and JLI. Dial H started really strong, but got uninteresting quickly. I was still getting it, but haven't read it in a while and it was on the edge for me.
I'm still getting: All-Star Western (my favourite) Animal Man & Swamp Thing (both very good too) Aquaman (picked up around #5 thanks to the reviews here, and it's been very good) Batman and JL Dark (both mostly good) Wonder Woman (my favourite out of the gate, but it faded over the course of the first year and hasn't drawn me back in. Still getting it, but not a priority read.) Justice League (almost entirely uninteresting, except for the Aquaman crossover.)
I started picking up Green Arrow when Lemire took it over, but I don't know if I'll stick with it.
Not new 52, but does anyone know what's going on with American Vampire? I love that book, but haven't seen it in months.
While I have purchased a number of TPB's in the new 52 (Justice League, Legion Lost, Legion of Super Heroes, Wonder Woman, Dial H, Red Hood, and the entire Green Lantern Universe).. and even sprung for a couple of hardcovers (Aquaman)... I'm definitely not what DC was hoping for with their new direction. Following month one, in which I purchased all 52 titles, I have yet to purchase another DC monthly since.
Other than dipping my toe back in the pool for an occasional first issue from Marvel, with nearly 35 years as a collector, I am no longer purchasing NEW monthly issues.
Still heavily involved in binding and acquiring bits of nostalgia, and really enjoying that end of the hobby.
So does DC try to reboot the entire line again and if so when do you think they do it? If not, what is their Plan B? Do they just make everything a Superman/Batman/Justice League related book?
I don't think they can, and I don't think they will (reboot the entire line). At least not while the current editorial squad is in place. It'd be admitting defeat, and your fanbase will never forgive you for it. Not that we're forgiving them now, of course! :)
Lord help us if they decide it's all for naught and give us "NEW CRISIS" where the old continuity converges with the new.
...my worst nightmare would be a JRJR illustrated Legion book).
Your worst nightmare would be a 'must buy' for me! I'd buy a Legion book with JRJR on it in a New York minute! For that matter, any DC book with Romita Jr would be perfectly fine with me. Doubt it'll come to pass, but stranger things have happened in the biz...
To each their own. For me, back in the day, JRJR caused me to drop Daredevil, Iron Man, and Uncanny. His Avengers title is/was the one with an Avengers team of characters that I was interested in reading about, but not at the price of looking at those painfully blocky anatomies.
What makes me angry is that I saw an interview with him at one point where he flat out unapologetically acknowledged that he could do better work, but he gets paid by the page so he does what he does to knock out as many pages as possible in a given month. I'm not a fan of that any more than I would be a fan of writers being incentivized to decompress their work by paying by the word.
So does DC try to reboot the entire line again and if so when do you think they do it? If not, what is their Plan B? Do they just make everything a Superman/Batman/Justice League related book?
I believe the current DC Universe is going to be around for a while. I still think restarting DC was a great idea. We get upset with the status quo, and this was as big of a change as they could make. DC needed to do something like the New52. It wasn't without glaring mistakes though.
DC should have wiped both Green Lantern and Batman clean. They never should have given us a timeline for the NEW 52; saying heroes just started publicly 5 years ago or whatever was stupid. The biggest one in my opinion was Bob Harris. I'll give credit where credit is due, S. Rose spent many a word talking about what a debacle this hire would be. I just thought it was ridiculous the every 3rd creator for the New52 worked on the X-Men in 1990.
...my worst nightmare would be a JRJR illustrated Legion book).
Your worst nightmare would be a 'must buy' for me! I'd buy a Legion book with JRJR on it in a New York minute! For that matter, any DC book with Romita Jr would be perfectly fine with me. Doubt it'll come to pass, but stranger things have happened in the biz...
To each their own. For me, back in the day, JRJR caused me to drop Daredevil, Iron Man, and Uncanny. His Avengers title is/was the one with an Avengers team of characters that I was interested in reading about, but not at the price of looking at those painfully blocky anatomies.
What makes me angry is that I saw an interview with him at one point where he flat out unapologetically acknowledged that he could do better work, but he gets paid by the page so he does what he does to knock out as many pages as possible in a given month. I'm not a fan of that any more than I would be a fan of writers being incentivized to decompress their work by paying by the word.
The situation of having to churn out so many pages a month is not new and not limited to Romita. It's the biz, and has been since comics began. The best of the Silver Age artists learned to be fast and good, because their monthly bills depended on how many pages they turned in, and the faster they did them, the bigger their paycheck would be. This includes artists like John Buscema, Gene Colan, and the King himself, Jack Kirby.
And I see absolutely nothing wrong with Romita Jr's work. If anything, his style evokes the power of Kirby's art, making him one of the more dynamic and most interesting stylists at Marvel today. More power to him. I'm sorry you don't enjoy his work, but I'll happily pick up anything he does today. Right now, he's the only thing making Captain America even the least bit palatable.
What makes me angry is that I saw an interview with him at one point where he flat out unapologetically acknowledged that he could do better work, but he gets paid by the page so he does what he does to knock out as many pages as possible in a given month. I'm not a fan of that any more than I would be a fan of writers being incentivized to decompress their work by paying by the word.
It worked for Kirby.
I have no problem with an artist with strong storytelling skills who does a "good enough" page, hands it off to the inker and moves on to the next one.
In fact, I often prefer such work to the stiff, lifeless, over-rendered stuff that often comes of spending too much time on a page.
I believe the current DC Universe is going to be around for a while. I still think restarting DC was a great idea. We get upset with the status quo, and this was as big of a change as they could make. DC needed to do something like the New52. It wasn't without glaring mistakes though.
And to be fair, there's a lot I really like about the New52DCU. We just never really talk about those things because it isn't as fun as bitching about what they're doing wrong. :)
- Wonder Woman has been excellent. I love the costume redesign, I love the universe Azzy has built for her, and I love Chang's artwork. - Red Hood & The Outlaws is one of the most under-appreciated books out there. Three very complex characters with equally messy histories in the old continuity, yet they mesh so well here as "the team that isn't a team". - Snyder and Capullo are owning Batman right now. - The fringe books that didn't make it (previously mentioned) were still quite good and had their fans. The fringe books that are still out there (I'm reading (and loving) Swamp Thing and All-Star Western) have been consistently excellent. - I swore up and down I'd hate Batgirl because of what they did to Stephanie. I've picked up both trades and loved them. Take THAT, DC! :)
To be honest, I'd like to see DC just come right out and say they're out of the numbers game and just give us a bunch of mini-series (for the lower-tier characters). Instead of promising some ongoing series for a character like, say, Amethyst, why not simply say "We're doing an eight-issue story. It's gonna be great. If you like it, buy it, and when we trade it we'll throw some extras in so you won't feel gypped for double-dipping. And, if you buy enough of it, we'll do ANOTHER eight-issue story about her!"
Just give me great stories like I know you can, DC.
...my worst nightmare would be a JRJR illustrated Legion book).
Your worst nightmare would be a 'must buy' for me! I'd buy a Legion book with JRJR on it in a New York minute! For that matter, any DC book with Romita Jr would be perfectly fine with me. Doubt it'll come to pass, but stranger things have happened in the biz...
To each their own. For me, back in the day, JRJR caused me to drop Daredevil, Iron Man, and Uncanny. His Avengers title is/was the one with an Avengers team of characters that I was interested in reading about, but not at the price of looking at those painfully blocky anatomies.
What makes me angry is that I saw an interview with him at one point where he flat out unapologetically acknowledged that he could do better work, but he gets paid by the page so he does what he does to knock out as many pages as possible in a given month. I'm not a fan of that any more than I would be a fan of writers being incentivized to decompress their work by paying by the word.
The situation of having to churn out so many pages a month is not new and not limited to Romita. It's the biz, and has been since comics began. The best of the Silver Age artists learned to be fast and good, because their monthly bills depended on how many pages they turned in, and the faster they did them, the bigger their paycheck would be. This includes artists like John Buscema, Gene Colan, and the King himself, Jack Kirby.
And I see absolutely nothing wrong with Romita Jr's work. If anything, his style evokes the power of Kirby's art, making him one of the more dynamic and most interesting stylists at Marvel today. More power to him. I'm sorry you don't enjoy his work, but I'll happily pick up anything he does today. Right now, he's the only thing making Captain America even the least bit palatable.
I'd have to respectfully disagree with regard to the comparison between JRJR and Kirby and acknowledge that this has gone completely off topic. I also feel like Kirby was doing far more than illustrating a book. He was unleashing a torrent of ideas.
JRJR, OTOH, is just doing what I would consider to be sub-par artwork. I'd say that he's nominally improved from his stint on Iron Man in the 90's, but I think that that's more in the coloring process than it is in the lines that he puts on the page.
At the end of the day, his work leaves me grind my teeth. I like my jaw and my teeth, therefore, I don't read anything with JRJR art.
What makes me angry is that I saw an interview with him at one point where he flat out unapologetically acknowledged that he could do better work, but he gets paid by the page so he does what he does to knock out as many pages as possible in a given month. I'm not a fan of that any more than I would be a fan of writers being incentivized to decompress their work by paying by the word.
It worked for Kirby.
"I grew up with Jack Kirby. I knew Jack Kirby. Jack Kirby was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kirby."
So does DC try to reboot the entire line again and if so when do you think they do it? If not, what is their Plan B? Do they just make everything a Superman/Batman/Justice League related book?
I'll give credit where credit is due, S. Rose spent many a word talking about what a debacle this hire would be. I just thought it was ridiculous the every 3rd creator for the New52 worked on the X-Men in 1990.
And he's turned storytelling back to then as well, not just with the Big 90's style art, but with editorial dictating stories, rewriting them after the creators have finished their work and gimmick after gimmick.
I don't want ANYONE to lose their job, but I can't see the current approach lasting. We're back to "Batman and Justice League sells, Superman limps along and everything else fades quickly."
Are there ANY books left from the 3rd and 4th wave of the New52?
...my worst nightmare would be a JRJR illustrated Legion book).
Your worst nightmare would be a 'must buy' for me! I'd buy a Legion book with JRJR on it in a New York minute! For that matter, any DC book with Romita Jr would be perfectly fine with me. Doubt it'll come to pass, but stranger things have happened in the biz...
To each their own. For me, back in the day, JRJR caused me to drop Daredevil, Iron Man, and Uncanny. His Avengers title is/was the one with an Avengers team of characters that I was interested in reading about, but not at the price of looking at those painfully blocky anatomies.
What makes me angry is that I saw an interview with him at one point where he flat out unapologetically acknowledged that he could do better work, but he gets paid by the page so he does what he does to knock out as many pages as possible in a given month. I'm not a fan of that any more than I would be a fan of writers being incentivized to decompress their work by paying by the word.
The situation of having to churn out so many pages a month is not new and not limited to Romita. It's the biz, and has been since comics began. The best of the Silver Age artists learned to be fast and good, because their monthly bills depended on how many pages they turned in, and the faster they did them, the bigger their paycheck would be. This includes artists like John Buscema, Gene Colan, and the King himself, Jack Kirby.
And I see absolutely nothing wrong with Romita Jr's work. If anything, his style evokes the power of Kirby's art, making him one of the more dynamic and most interesting stylists at Marvel today. More power to him. I'm sorry you don't enjoy his work, but I'll happily pick up anything he does today. Right now, he's the only thing making Captain America even the least bit palatable.
I'd have to respectfully disagree with regard to the comparison between JRJR and Kirby and acknowledge that this has gone completely off topic. I also feel like Kirby was doing far more than illustrating a book. He was unleashing a torrent of ideas.
JRJR, OTOH, is just doing what I would consider to be sub-par artwork. I'd say that he's nominally improved from his stint on Iron Man in the 90's, but I think that that's more in the coloring process than it is in the lines that he puts on the page.
At the end of the day, his work leaves me grind my teeth. I like my jaw and my teeth, therefore, I don't read anything with JRJR art.
I'll agree with you in that JRJR is no Jack Kirby -- nobody is. Kirby was a virtuoso of artistic and story ideas. That's why he was King. JRJR isn't even near that plateau. But I wasn't referring to that level of achievement. JRJR may be a journeyman comic artist at best, but he makes more of an effort to make his work interesting and dynamic. He's following Kirby's visual approach without deliberately aping the style, much as Gil Kane did in his day, tackling the assignments with a bravura design and flow. It's true he doesn't have the same kind of genius for creation and ideas the way Kirby did, but then again few others do. But he does evoke the power of Kirby's kind of imagery.
Comments
Given the number of cancellations, it doesn't seem like the digital sales are making any difference at all.
Using your list, here's what I'm still following and used to follow.
HERE:
2. ALL-STAR WESTERN #1 - Trade only. Love this series.
4. AQUAMAN #1- Single Issues. Still enjoying but will likely drop.
5. BATGIRL #1 - Trade only
6. BATMAN #1 - Singles and double-dip for trades. Art and writing is really good.
8. BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #1 - Dropping like bad habit once subscription is up
10. BATWOMAN #1 - Trade only
13. DETECTIVE COMICS #1 - Trade only
19. JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 = Trade only
20. JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 - Trade only
22. RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #1 - Singles
28. SUPERGIRL: Singles and double-dip for trades. Kara's my fave, no matter how they create her
30. SWAMP THING #1 - Trade only. Love this series
31. TEEN TITANS #1 - Trade only.
32. WONDER WOMAN #1 - Single issues. Best book DC is putting out right now.
GONE:
1. BLACKHAWKS #1 - Own the trade. Wanted this idea to work so bad. Surprisingly not a bad series when read in trade format. A for effort on DC's part.
6. DEMON KNIGHTS #1 - *sob*.... :)
9. GRIFTER #1 - Friend of mine does the inking
10. HAWK AND DOVE #1 - Own the trade. Hate the art, love the characters.
13. LEGION LOST #1 - Own the one trade, getting the second one.
14. LEGION OF SUPERHEROES #1 - Singles (digital) and trades.
17. RESURRECTION MAN - Singles. Glad they let them close the storyline.
So that's 20 books I backed completely out of the New 52. 5 of which I'm still buying single issues of and will likely pare down to three shortly.
"cancelled the book in my heart"
I'm just letting you know right now. I'm stealing that line.
1. ACTION COMICS: Grant Morrison & Rags Morales
3. ANIMAL MAN #1 Writer: Jeff Lemire Artists: Travel Foreman, Dan Green
4. AQUAMAN #1 Writer: Geoff Johns Artist: Ivan Reis
5. BATGIRL #1 Writer: Gail Simone Artists: Ardian Syaf, Vicente Cifuentes
6. BATMAN #1 Writer: Scott Snyder Artist: Greg Capullo
7. BATMAN AND ROBIN #1 Writer: Peter Tomasi Artist: Pat Gleason
10. BATWOMAN #1 Writer: J.H.Williams III/Haden Blackman,Artist:J.H.WIII/Amy Reeder
13. DETECTIVE COMICS #1 Writer/Artist: Tony Daniel
14. FLASH #1 Writers: FrManapul, Brian Buccellato Artist: Brian Buccellato
15. GREEN ARROW #1 Writer: JT Krul Artist: Dan Jurgens
16. GREEN LANTERN #1 Writer: GeoJohns Artists: Doug Mahnke, Christian Alamy
17. GREEN LANTERN CORPS #1 Writer: PTomasi Artists: F Pasarin, Scott Hanna
18. GREEN LANTERN: NEW GUARDIANS #1 Writer: TBedard Artist: Ty Kirkham
19. JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 Writer: Geoff Johns Artist: Jim Lee
20. JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 Writer: Peter Milligan Artist: Mikel Janin
21. NIGHTWING #1 Writer: Kyle Higgins Artist: Eddy Barrows
22. RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #1 Writer: SLobdell Artist: Kenneth Rocafort
23. RED LANTERNS #1 Writer: Peter Milligan Artists: Ed Benes, Rob Hunter
30. SWAMP THING #1 Writer: Scott Snyder Artist: Yannick Paquette
32. WONDER WOMAN #1 Writer: Brian Azzarello Artist: Cliff Chiang
So in the span of just over a year, I went from about a dozen pre-new 52 DC titles on my pull list to zero.
Nice work DC.
Buying:
BATMAN #1 Writer: Scott Snyder Artist: Greg Capullo
BATMAN AND ROBIN #1 Writer: Peter Tomasi Artist: Pat Gleason
BATWOMAN #1 Writer: J.H.Williams III/Haden Blackman,Artist:J.H.WIII/Amy Reeder
FLASH #1 Writers: FrManapul, Brian Buccellato Artist: Brian Buccellato
JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 Writer: Geoff Johns Artist: Jim Lee
Dropped:
ACTION COMICS: Grant Morrison & Rags Morales
ANIMAL MAN #1 Writer: Jeff Lemire Artists: Travel Foreman, Dan Green
BATGIRL #1 Writer: Gail Simone Artists: Ardian Syaf, Vicente Cifuentes
FRANKENSTEIN, AGENT OF SHADE #1 Writer: JLemire Artist: Alb Ponticelli
GREEN LANTERN #1 Writer: GeoJohns Artists: Doug Mahnke, Christian Alamy
JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 Writer: Peter Milligan Artist: Mikel Janin
STORMWATCH #1 Writer: Paul Cornell Artist: Miguel Sepulveda
SUPERMAN: written by George Perez with art by Jesus Merino
SWAMP THING #1 Writer: Scott Snyder Artist: Yannick Paquette
WONDER WOMAN #1 Writer: Brian Azzarello Artist: Cliff Chiang
Although I'm also buying Earth 2 (but it's on the bubble about to be dropped), and Constantine (but it's just on a 1st arc tryout and will likely be dropped).
1. ACTION COMICS: Loved it; the only Superman title I really enjoyed. But Morrison's gone now and the book is now following the same uneasy course as the main title. I just dropped it from my list.
2. ALL-STAR WESTERN A solid winner in my book; still with it.
3. ANIMAL MAN Bored to death by the Rotworld story; dropped it after a year.
4. AQUAMAN Also a winner, one of the best of the New52. Still with it.
5. BATGIRL Not bad... but my money was best put elsewhere. Dropped early on.
6. BATMAN Lost me after the Court Of Owls story. Dropped.
7. BATMAN AND ROBIN Enjoyed it up until Death In The Family, at which point I skipped out.
8. BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT Not worth my money. Dropped.
9. BATWING Enjoyed this one until they decided to remove the lead character and replace him with a Gotham substitute. Dropped.
10. BATWOMAN Boring. Dropped after #6.
11. BIRDS OF PREY Interesting, but not enough. Dropped early on.
12. CATWOMAN Didn't like the new iteration. Dropped very quickly.
13. DETECTIVE COMICS Dropped after Court Of Owls.
14. FLASH Still reading, but finding it more of a disappointment all the time. May be dropping soon.
15. GREEN ARROW Enjoyed the opening issues, but this was one of the first books to undergo a lot of editorial interference. Dropped as soon as Ann Nocenti took over the writing.
16. GREEN LANTERN The GL books are borderline interesting, but they seemed to have lost a lot of momentum (and clarity of story) after the reboot. Still reading but may be dropping after the change in writers. Wait and see.
17. GREEN LANTERN CORPS See Green Lantern.
18. GREEN LANTERN: NEW GUARDIANS See Green Lantern.
19. JUSTICE LEAGUE Still reading, but the series just hasn't felt right since it started, like I was reading an Elseworlds story. I'm still there, but I'm still hoping for better. Plus, so far I'm not liking the new hooded Captain Marvel.
20. JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK Surprisingly better than I expected. Still reading.
21. NIGHTWING Couldn't get interested in the new series. Dropped early on.
22. RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS Dropped very early on.
23. RED LANTERNS See Green Lantern.
24. SAVAGE HAWKMAN This one just had me baffled from the very beginning. I didn't know who this was or how it connected in any way whatsoever with any earlier incarnation of Hawkman, and I felt like I was dropped right into the 12th chapter of a serial. Didn't have the patience to see it through. Dropped almost immediately.
25. STORMWATCH I thought this was a better 'Justice League' than Justice League itself. I'm still with it, but am not quite sure I appreciate Jim Starlin's 'reboot'. But it's Starlin, and the series probably won't last much longer anyway. I'm good until the end.
26. SUICIDE SQUAD with the new svelte Amanda Waller and butt-ugly Harley Quinn. Dropped like a hot potato.
27. SUPERBOY Most 'alien' Superboy to date. I found him unlikeable right from the start. Dropped.
28. SUPERGIRL Wasn't hooked. Dropped.
29. SUPERMAN What a mess this book has been right from the get-go! Writers and artists were dropping from the series like flies in a bug-zapper, complaining of management interference; series never seemed to gel with the stories in Action; butt-ugly version of the famous costume... like Justice League, it feels like a badly written Elseworlds story. I held on for awhile, but eventually threw my hands up in surrender and dropped the series.
30. SWAMP THING See Animal Man.
31. TEEN TITANS Most unlikeable and unreadable iteration yet. Dropped.
32. WONDER WOMAN Probably most original and very interesting handling of the character to date, but I wasn't sufficiently hooked enough to continue. It was a borderline decision, but I felt my money was better spent elsewhere. Dropped after a year.
GONE:
1. BLACKHAWKS Who were these guys!? Didn't matter; they died quickly. I stayed until the end.
2. BLUE BEETLE I liked the pre New52 stories better. Dropped after a year.
3. CAPTAIN ATOM I don't know what they were trying to do here. Captain Atom was never more dull, and Freddie Williams' art, usually so very good, was never muddier. I stayed for the entire unmemorable run, which was mercifully brief.
4. DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS I like tryout titles. I stayed with it until it started turning into a Teen Titans auxillary title. Dropped, though I did buy the last issue.
5. DEATHSTROKE Didn't like. Dropped it immediately.
6. DEMON KNIGHTS I dropped this one after a year, very reluctantly. It was another one of those borderline decisions, and I thought I could use my money better elsewhere. But I thought it had some promise.
7. FURY OF FIRESTORM I wanted to like it, but hated the drastic and (IMO) unnecessary changes to the concept. Dropped early on.
8. FRANKENSTEIN, AGENT OF SHADE I enjoyed this one a great deal, and stayed until the end.
9. GRIFTER Didn't care. Dropped immediately.
10. HAWK AND DOVE Rob Liefeld drew it. I ran screaming from it.
11. I VAMPIRE I had no hopes for this one at all, but found it surprisingly better than I'd imagined it would be. Although it started to lose it's way about halfway through the series, I stayed with it all the way to the end.
12. JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL Frankly, the book died too soon.
13. LEGION LOST Cheap tie-in to an earlier, better series of the same name. This one just didn't work, no matter who wrote it. But I stayed until the last issue.
14. LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES Better, but still reeking of upper mismanagement. Even the talented Paul Levitz couldn't get past that. But I'm still there.
15. MISTER TERRIFIC I thought this one had promise. Died too soon.
16. OMAC Not one of the best, but at least had more genuine energy to it. I honestly don't know if it could have survived much longer anyway, but I stayed with it.
17. RESURRECTION MAN One of the better titles, though not (IMO) as good as the original series. I hung in until the end.
18. MEN OF WAR Had an interesting approach, mixing war stories with the general DCU's meta-world, but died too soon.
19. STATIC SHOCK Wanted to like it, but the creator conflicts drained the energy out of the series. Stayed to the end.
20. VOODOO Dropped immediately
ALL-STAR WESTERN - Read and enjoyed first trade, will get the second one of these days.
ANIMAL MAN - 6 or 7 issues. It was just moving way too slowly, and the ever-encroaching Rot crossover w/ Swamp Thing didn't interest me.
AQUAMAN - 15 or 16 issues, I think? Didn't wanna get sucked into a crossover, and I was kind of losing interest anyway.
BATMAN - 7 or 8 issues, dropped just prior to Night of the Owls because I didn't want to get sucked into a HUGE crossover.
BATWOMAN - Read first trade and kind of hated it as much as I enjoyed the previous Rucka / Williams III collection.
CATWOMAN - 4 or 5 issues... never hated it like some did from the get-go, but I lost interest.
SUPERGIRL - Got about 18 or 19 issues in, but that crossover killed my interest dead.
SUPERMAN - 3 issues. Dropped or being so very, very overwritten.
WONDER WOMAN - 3 issues, intend to go back and get at least the first trade.
GONE:
DEMON KNIGHTS - 8 or 9 issues, the pacing on this just killed my interest. Liked it well-enough, but it took a long time for anything to happen, and even that far in, I still couldn't remember the names of the woman with the horse, the Amazon, or the inventor guy because they never seemed to get to do much.
No matter how bad it got.
And man, did it get bad sometimes.
But "Justice Legion" may well be my jumping off point.
I'm a little scared... :-SS
Matthew
I'm still getting:
All-Star Western (my favourite)
Animal Man & Swamp Thing (both very good too)
Aquaman (picked up around #5 thanks to the reviews here, and it's been very good)
Batman and JL Dark (both mostly good)
Wonder Woman (my favourite out of the gate, but it faded over the course of the first year and hasn't drawn me back in. Still getting it, but not a priority read.)
Justice League (almost entirely uninteresting, except for the Aquaman crossover.)
I started picking up Green Arrow when Lemire took it over, but I don't know if I'll stick with it.
Not new 52, but does anyone know what's going on with American Vampire? I love that book, but haven't seen it in months.
In total I'm now only reading 6 DC books...down from, I don't know..20-something books at one point.
Other than dipping my toe back in the pool for an occasional first issue from Marvel, with nearly 35 years as a collector, I am no longer purchasing NEW monthly issues.
Still heavily involved in binding and acquiring bits of nostalgia, and really enjoying that end of the hobby.
Lord help us if they decide it's all for naught and give us "NEW CRISIS" where the old continuity converges with the new.
What makes me angry is that I saw an interview with him at one point where he flat out unapologetically acknowledged that he could do better work, but he gets paid by the page so he does what he does to knock out as many pages as possible in a given month. I'm not a fan of that any more than I would be a fan of writers being incentivized to decompress their work by paying by the word.
DC should have wiped both Green Lantern and Batman clean. They never should have given us a timeline for the NEW 52; saying heroes just started publicly 5 years ago or whatever was stupid. The biggest one in my opinion was Bob Harris.
I'll give credit where credit is due, S. Rose spent many a word talking about what a debacle this hire would be. I just thought it was ridiculous the every 3rd creator for the New52 worked on the X-Men in 1990.
And I see absolutely nothing wrong with Romita Jr's work. If anything, his style evokes the power of Kirby's art, making him one of the more dynamic and most interesting stylists at Marvel today. More power to him. I'm sorry you don't enjoy his work, but I'll happily pick up anything he does today. Right now, he's the only thing making Captain America even the least bit palatable.
I have no problem with an artist with strong storytelling skills who does a "good enough" page, hands it off to the inker and moves on to the next one.
In fact, I often prefer such work to the stiff, lifeless, over-rendered stuff that often comes of spending too much time on a page.
- Wonder Woman has been excellent. I love the costume redesign, I love the universe Azzy has built for her, and I love Chang's artwork.
- Red Hood & The Outlaws is one of the most under-appreciated books out there. Three very complex characters with equally messy histories in the old continuity, yet they mesh so well here as "the team that isn't a team".
- Snyder and Capullo are owning Batman right now.
- The fringe books that didn't make it (previously mentioned) were still quite good and had their fans. The fringe books that are still out there (I'm reading (and loving) Swamp Thing and All-Star Western) have been consistently excellent.
- I swore up and down I'd hate Batgirl because of what they did to Stephanie. I've picked up both trades and loved them. Take THAT, DC! :)
To be honest, I'd like to see DC just come right out and say they're out of the numbers game and just give us a bunch of mini-series (for the lower-tier characters). Instead of promising some ongoing series for a character like, say, Amethyst, why not simply say "We're doing an eight-issue story. It's gonna be great. If you like it, buy it, and when we trade it we'll throw some extras in so you won't feel gypped for double-dipping. And, if you buy enough of it, we'll do ANOTHER eight-issue story about her!"
Just give me great stories like I know you can, DC.
JRJR, OTOH, is just doing what I would consider to be sub-par artwork. I'd say that he's nominally improved from his stint on Iron Man in the 90's, but I think that that's more in the coloring process than it is in the lines that he puts on the page.
At the end of the day, his work leaves me grind my teeth. I like my jaw and my teeth, therefore, I don't read anything with JRJR art.
I don't want ANYONE to lose their job, but I can't see the current approach lasting. We're back to "Batman and Justice League sells, Superman limps along and everything else fades quickly."
Are there ANY books left from the 3rd and 4th wave of the New52?