That was a fantastic tangent by Jamie D. My moment of clarity with the industry has come with Pre Orders. With the exception of Omnibus editions, I think I am done with Pre Orders. I get almost everything in trade. I keep seeing more and more of the trades I order get delayed thus tying up my money. I have items that were solicited in 2012 that are still pending. The oldest one was solicited August 2012. These were not listed as "advanced solicits" either.
I think I will just do a monthly instock trades or Amazon order of newly released material with an occasional trip to my LCS thrown in.
There is something about AoU that makes me think that if it came out when intended, after Avengers #12.1 and before AvX (I don't think the placement of Fear Itself would have mattered much), the story would have made more sense and mostly fit in up to when Thor smashed Ultron at the end. I have this gut feeling the AoU that we got is not the AoU that Bendis originally intended.
Yes, this.
I liked this series(shoot me) but I couldn't agree more that this was a story that should have been told a year or two ago.
As a side note we first got a glimpse of all this in Avengers #5. Remember that big timeline future Tony Stark had. Towards the end of it was written "Ultron War."
A quote I found from an article written way back in 2010:
When asked what the most important things on the map were, Bendis and Brevoort highlighted two. The first, "ULTRON WAR" is the biggest and most immediate. The story that ran through Avengers #1-6 that dealt with the aftermath of the Ultron War in the future was only the beginning, they said. The Ultron War was going to be a big deal in the future of the Avengers.
There is something about AoU that makes me think that if it came out when intended, after Avengers #12.1 and before AvX (I don't think the placement of Fear Itself would have mattered much), the story would have made more sense and mostly fit in up to when Thor smashed Ultron at the end. I have this gut feeling the AoU that we got is not the AoU that Bendis originally intended.
Yes, this.
I liked this series(shoot me) but I couldn't agree more that this was a story that should have been told a year or two ago.
As a side note we first got a glimpse of all this in Avengers #5. Remember that big timeline future Tony Stark had. Towards the end of it was written "Ultron War."
A quote I found from an article written way back in 2010:
When asked what the most important things on the map were, Bendis and Brevoort highlighted two. The first, "ULTRON WAR" is the biggest and most immediate. The story that ran through Avengers #1-6 that dealt with the aftermath of the Ultron War in the future was only the beginning, they said. The Ultron War was going to be a big deal in the future of the Avengers.
Just finished the episode. Jamie, much like you said to Pants, no need to apologize for viewpoint along with your venting and ranting. That's kind of the point of the show is to express your opinion when it comes to comics and other geek related things, so when something is happening that upsets you, then we want to hear that.
I also was greatly disappointed with Age of Ultron. I picked up the event because I loved Age of Apocalypse back when the X-Titles did that and was hoping maybe this could capture SOME of that feel. I personally thought it had a great and exciting start to the story. I was eagerly on board for the first 4 or 5 issues, but then they took that weird turn in issue #7 and then #10 was such a let down with such a ridiculously simple conclusion, that you are right could have just been done in a couple issues of a regular Avengers title. And then I also am getting tired of the "non-ending" where you are being pushed to buy these other titles to get the rest of the story.
I am going to get Infinity because I love the character of Thanos and I love the whole Infinity stories of the past, so I'm hoping it will be good, but I am not getting any tie-in issues of stuff that I don't already get (where in the past I would have). And maybe if this event is bad, maybe then I'll learn my lesson with events from the big companies (but I do love event stories....but they are pulling on my last nerve).
I have made some big cuts in some titles from the big 2. I still get a lot of books from them, but I have just recently cut my X-titles down to 5 and soon that will be 4 titles with X-Factor ending, and I love the X-Men. I cut a couple Avengers titles. I will be doing the same kind of cuts with DC. I will still be getting quite a few books from the two companies, but they will only be teh titles that I'm excited to read each time they come in my order.
I have ventured a lot more into independent stuff since even getting into podcasting and being exposed to a lot more by listening to various shows. Some titles I have come to thoroughly enjoy are Revival, Jupiter's Legacy, and even though it's a Vertigo book I really loved the first issue of Snyder's The Wake. I also love Saga and East of West. These are pretty much all titles that 5 years ago I would never have even thought about trying.
As time goes on I see my pull list becoming more balanced between the big 2 and independent stuff, and I hope that DC and Marvel learn through this that their event titles and crossover arcs need to actually be stories worth telling that people want to read and not just more advertising for the next books.
There is something about AoU that makes me think that if it came out when intended, after Avengers #12.1 and before AvX (I don't think the placement of Fear Itself would have mattered much), the story would have made more sense and mostly fit in up to when Thor smashed Ultron at the end. I have this gut feeling the AoU that we got is not the AoU that Bendis originally intended.
Yes, this.
I liked this series(shoot me) but I couldn't agree more that this was a story that should have been told a year or two ago.
As a side note we first got a glimpse of all this in Avengers #5. Remember that big timeline future Tony Stark had. Towards the end of it was written "Ultron War."
A quote I found from an article written way back in 2010:
When asked what the most important things on the map were, Bendis and Brevoort highlighted two. The first, "ULTRON WAR" is the biggest and most immediate. The story that ran through Avengers #1-6 that dealt with the aftermath of the Ultron War in the future was only the beginning, they said. The Ultron War was going to be a big deal in the future of the Avengers.
That was a long time to wait.
Hummm...whatever happened to that weapon future Tony gave our Tony?
Welcome to the No Event Club, @JaimeD! I’ve been a card carrying member since the mid-’90s, and I have to say, life is a lot sunnier on this side of the spinner rack. Here you don’t have to buy titles you don’t care for by creators you don’t care for just so you can find out what happened between pages 4 and 5 of issue 2 of the main series. And books you enjoy don’t get interrupted in the middle of a compelling arc so that you can see how the hero deals with an event in which they really have no direct involvement. And best of all, rather than having to read Age of Infinite Civil Crisis, you can listen to podcasts like this and find out what happened without wasting a dime. It’s great! (It’s rumored there are cookies to be had as well, but I have yet to find them.)
The last big cross over I liked from marvel was Civil War. The last from DC was Infinite Crisis. Maybe I am too picky? Or a lot of uninteresting stuff has come out. Hmmmm.
I've generally enjoyed the big crossover events, but DC has been leaving a sour taste in my mouth since the New52 began, throwing a crossover or micro crossover at us practically every month. Marvel's have been more interesting of late.
The last big cross over I liked from marvel was Civil War. The last from DC was Infinite Crisis. Maybe I am too picky? Or a lot of uninteresting stuff has come out. Hmmmm.
One of the interesting things I find about Civil War is how it has become more well liked as time has passed. Just about every podcast I was listening to was down on the event by issue 7. At the time I didn't really get it (I still don't); it was a good story.
My major drawback to Civil War is (and was then) that it was the weakest of Marvels 3 major stories occurring at the time (Civil War, Annihilation and Planet Hulk). That being said Civil War was a great story and will/should be remembered as one of the greatest Marvel stories written over the last 20 years. Long Live 2005!
The last big cross over I liked from marvel was Civil War. The last from DC was Infinite Crisis. Maybe I am too picky? Or a lot of uninteresting stuff has come out. Hmmmm.
One of the interesting things I find about Civil War is how it has become more well liked as time has passed. Just about every podcast I was listening to was down on the event by issue 7. At the time I didn't really get it (I still don't); it was a good story.
My major drawback to Civil War is (and was then) that it was the weakest of Marvels 3 major stories occurring at the time (Civil War, Annihilation and Planet Hulk). That being said Civil War was a great story and will/should be remembered as one of the greatest Marvel stories written over the last 20 years. Long Live 2005!
I thought Civil War was great...until the ending. I was looking for more.
I thought I was alone in liking it. It was a solid time travel story, cemented Morgan LeFay as a major villain, got DEEP into the character of Sue Storm, who needs some strong character work, and for the people who say "Nothing happened"....well, you're wrong. Time Travel has broken the Marvel Universe, and we are seeing the consequences of that in Hickman's Avengers books. It is also probably the beginning of the end of the Ultimate Universe. There are implications that will be playing out over time...
And for those who say nothing happened, did you have the same complaint about Age of Apocalypse? The kerjillions of Marvel time travel stories where everything goes back to the way it was at the end? I, for one, and HAPPY they didn't try to make it a BIG EVENT by pointlessly killing off a character in the last issue and instead set the table for the next year or so of stories.
Yeah, I was good with it as well. I didn't have any of the problems with it that Jamie had; I certainly didn't mind that it's spinning off a couple of new storylines -- that feels pretty organic to me. I do think the decompression could have been dialed back a notch or two, but that was a minor nitpick for me.
The fact that several Avengers were not up-to-date on their current statuses didn't really bother me because this story was so heavy into time travel and consequences that I just assumed all of continuity was going to be skewed until the final resolution of the story anyway. The fact that this story was probably intended for publication a couple of years ago is very likely true, but, again, I didn't see that this really impacted the story in any major way. If anything, I'm impressed that they were still able to make it fit into the current storylines, and Wolverine's 'breaking of the time continuum' may, in fact, be a seed to the events currently going on in all of the ongoing Avengers titles.
Only one thing bothers me, and not to the point that it in anyway spoils my enjoyment of the story: we never did get to see the Ultron of the future, the one who was directing the conquest of the 21st century from his vantage point in some future era. I would have liked to have seen how far he had evolved and what he did to actually accomplish the means to finally defeat his old enemies and destroy the human race. But the story as is works pretty well without that, so I'm not complaining too loudly. And who's to say that somebody won't revisit that situation in a future story?
If I have any big complaints, it would be the crossovers. The first few did fine in supplying connecting stories, but the last couple were pointless, being little more than 'red sky' stories that took place within the altered timelines but offering nothing of interest or value that contributed to the Ultron storyline -- I could have done without them. The Fearless Defenders issue was especially worthless, giving me nothing of the Ultron storyline and not really giving me anything of the book's usual cast or storylines. I would never have pre-ordered those books if I'd known they would be crossovers in name only.
Yeah, I was good with it as well. I didn't have any of the problems with it that Jamie had; I certainly didn't mind that it's spinning off a couple of new storylines -- that feels pretty organic to me. I do think the decompression could have been dialed back a notch or two, but that was a minor nitpick for me.
The fact that several Avengers were not up-to-date on their current statuses didn't really bother me because this story was so heavy into time travel and consequences that I just assumed all of continuity was going to be skewed until the final resolution of the story anyway. The fact that this story was probably intended for publication a couple of years ago is very likely true, but, again, I didn't see that this really impacted the story in any major way. If anything, I'm impressed that they were still able to make it fit into the current storylines, and Wolverine's 'breaking of the time continuum' may, in fact, be a seed to the events currently going on in all of the ongoing Avengers titles.
Only one thing bothers me, and not to the point that it in anyway spoils my enjoyment of the story: we never did get to see the Ultron of the future, the one who was directing the conquest of the 21st century from his vantage point in some future era. I would have liked to have seen how far he had evolved and what he did to actually accomplish the means to finally defeat his old enemies and destroy the human race. But the story as is works pretty well without that, so I'm not complaining too loudly. And who's to say that somebody won't revisit that situation in a future story?
If I have any big complaints, it would be the crossovers. The first few did fine in supplying connecting stories, but the last couple were pointless, being little more than 'red sky' stories that took place within the altered timelines but offering nothing of interest or value that contributed to the Ultron storyline -- I could have done without them. The Fearless Defenders issue was especially worthless, giving me nothing of the Ultron storyline and not really giving me anything of the book's usual cast or storylines. I would never have pre-ordered those books if I'd known they would be crossovers in name only.
Ultron was able to take over because of Judgment Day. Sarah, John, & a T-800 thought they stopped it, but didn't. Sky net went operational regardless.
I usually just listen to the CGS podcasts then read the event/crossover trades at the library or bookstore. The last event trade I bought was Final Crisis, and I am still trying to figure that out four years later. Maybe when the Infinite Ultrons Civil War Soylent Green Rocky Horror Crossover Crisis is written, I might go back to getting it issue to issue. Nah. I'll take my Chew, Walking Dead, and Star Wars monthlies instead.
With Age of Ultron, I did something that I never thought I would do: I didn't buy it. After reading the last few events from DC and Marvel, I was dissatisfied with the stories and that there wasn't a clear ending to that specific story. All these events do is attempt to hook you to buying more of their brand and suck your wallet or purse dry of all your money.
When I got a promo image from my local comic shop on AoU, I saw it was ten issues in three months with a few tie-ins and two or more specials. I thought "I have had enough with this crap!" and decided not to buy it. After hearing about the details of the series thanks to your show and a few other outlets, I was glad I didn't buy this event series. The LCS manager was surprised and intrigued that I took such a hard stance against this series. Because of a lack of interest, I've even decided to take a hard stance against buying Trinity War. I'm even thinking of not buying Infinity and cutting Avengers as well.
Right now, Image, Dark Horse and Oni have more interesting titles than half of the roster that DC and Marvel put out. I still enjoy the Batman titles, Hawkeye, Daredevil, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, and a few other books from the "Big Two", but I think I'm starting to buy more different books. I see about the same amount of "i"s in my bi-weekly stack compared to the Marvel logo and that cold, corporate piece of garbage of a logo DC uses. I think that is a good change.
Well, I'm glad I didn't buy this Ultron debacle. I wanted a good Ultron story, but I suspected that it wouldn't be. As Jamie alluded to, basically I saved about $40 that I could use for other comics. And like Jamie, I'm totally thinking of not getting Infinity after issue 1. Why? Well, I'm reading the 'lead-in's to Infinity, the regular Avengers books, and I'm already tired of Hickman's Avengers treatment. Where are the Avengers? I don't know these guys. It's like they are clones of the Avengers sent out to save the universe while the real Avengers, the ones I enjoy, are staying home battling crime and evil on earth. Hickman's Avengers is just too cosmic for me. So, for Marvel, I'll buy DD, Hawkeye, still liking Superior Spider-man, and it'll be 50-50 on if I'll buy the Battle of the Atom. I might even buy Mighty Avengers (said to be a more street level book), but I'm straying from the regular, New, Secret, and all Infinity-related titles.
Yeah, I bought all the Age of Ultron issues, the first time I've dipped into current Marvel stuff since Secret Invasion. I didn't enjoy it, didn't fully understand it, and I really wonder what is the editorial vision at the Big Two.
Does no one remember "Gah Lak Tus" from Ultimate? They already did an ultimate Galactus story!
And, like, what was even going on at the end of UA10? How were we to know that Universes were colliding if we weren't paying attention to the meta-issue industry information? What kind of ending was that? "We'll just confuse the hell out of the average reader and leave them to surmise that we somehow concluded the story."
Does no one remember "Gah Lak Tus" from Ultimate? They already did an ultimate Galactus story!
And, like, what was even going on at the end of UA10? How were we to know that Universes were colliding if we weren't paying attention to the meta-issue industry information? What kind of ending was that? "We'll just confuse the hell out of the average reader and leave them to surmise that we somehow concluded the story."
Yeah we remember Gah Lak Tus...but like the F4: Rise of the Silver Surfer we'd rather have the real Galactus and not a cloud of machines.
I had to step away and recently came back to Age of Ultron #10 but Hank, Tony and McCoy actually say that "We broke the space-time continuum". With all the different abuses of time travel. Then they say, "Imagine these tears in time and space reaching out through all of time and space. Imagine other Universes affected".
Then we see Ultimate Spider-Man swinging he falls, looks up...Galalctus. Then the next page is an ad for the Hunger. Also in the back of the issue they tell you who the characters are. Granted one may not know Galactus is not part of the Ultimate Universe...so yeah...
Comments
My moment of clarity with the industry has come with Pre Orders. With the exception of Omnibus editions, I think I am done with Pre Orders. I get almost everything in trade. I keep seeing more and more of the trades I order get delayed thus tying up my money. I have items that were solicited in 2012 that are still pending. The oldest one was solicited August 2012. These were not listed as "advanced solicits" either.
I think I will just do a monthly instock trades or Amazon order of newly released material with an occasional trip to my LCS thrown in.
I liked this series(shoot me) but I couldn't agree more that this was a story that should have been told a year or two ago.
As a side note we first got a glimpse of all this in Avengers #5. Remember that big timeline future Tony Stark had. Towards the end of it was written "Ultron War."
A quote I found from an article written way back in 2010: That was a long time to wait.
And a crappy pay off ~X(
I also was greatly disappointed with Age of Ultron. I picked up the event because I loved Age of Apocalypse back when the X-Titles did that and was hoping maybe this could capture SOME of that feel. I personally thought it had a great and exciting start to the story. I was eagerly on board for the first 4 or 5 issues, but then they took that weird turn in issue #7 and then #10 was such a let down with such a ridiculously simple conclusion, that you are right could have just been done in a couple issues of a regular Avengers title. And then I also am getting tired of the "non-ending" where you are being pushed to buy these other titles to get the rest of the story.
I am going to get Infinity because I love the character of Thanos and I love the whole Infinity stories of the past, so I'm hoping it will be good, but I am not getting any tie-in issues of stuff that I don't already get (where in the past I would have). And maybe if this event is bad, maybe then I'll learn my lesson with events from the big companies (but I do love event stories....but they are pulling on my last nerve).
I have made some big cuts in some titles from the big 2. I still get a lot of books from them, but I have just recently cut my X-titles down to 5 and soon that will be 4 titles with X-Factor ending, and I love the X-Men. I cut a couple Avengers titles. I will be doing the same kind of cuts with DC. I will still be getting quite a few books from the two companies, but they will only be teh titles that I'm excited to read each time they come in my order.
I have ventured a lot more into independent stuff since even getting into podcasting and being exposed to a lot more by listening to various shows. Some titles I have come to thoroughly enjoy are Revival, Jupiter's Legacy, and even though it's a Vertigo book I really loved the first issue of Snyder's The Wake. I also love Saga and East of West. These are pretty much all titles that 5 years ago I would never have even thought about trying.
As time goes on I see my pull list becoming more balanced between the big 2 and independent stuff, and I hope that DC and Marvel learn through this that their event titles and crossover arcs need to actually be stories worth telling that people want to read and not just more advertising for the next books.
Hummm...whatever happened to that weapon future Tony gave our Tony?
My major drawback to Civil War is (and was then) that it was the weakest of Marvels 3 major stories occurring at the time (Civil War, Annihilation and Planet Hulk). That being said Civil War was a great story and will/should be remembered as one of the greatest Marvel stories written over the last 20 years. Long Live 2005!
M
And for those who say nothing happened, did you have the same complaint about Age of Apocalypse? The kerjillions of Marvel time travel stories where everything goes back to the way it was at the end? I, for one, and HAPPY they didn't try to make it a BIG EVENT by pointlessly killing off a character in the last issue and instead set the table for the next year or so of stories.
YMMV
The fact that several Avengers were not up-to-date on their current statuses didn't really bother me because this story was so heavy into time travel and consequences that I just assumed all of continuity was going to be skewed until the final resolution of the story anyway. The fact that this story was probably intended for publication a couple of years ago is very likely true, but, again, I didn't see that this really impacted the story in any major way. If anything, I'm impressed that they were still able to make it fit into the current storylines, and Wolverine's 'breaking of the time continuum' may, in fact, be a seed to the events currently going on in all of the ongoing Avengers titles.
Only one thing bothers me, and not to the point that it in anyway spoils my enjoyment of the story: we never did get to see the Ultron of the future, the one who was directing the conquest of the 21st century from his vantage point in some future era. I would have liked to have seen how far he had evolved and what he did to actually accomplish the means to finally defeat his old enemies and destroy the human race. But the story as is works pretty well without that, so I'm not complaining too loudly. And who's to say that somebody won't revisit that situation in a future story?
If I have any big complaints, it would be the crossovers. The first few did fine in supplying connecting stories, but the last couple were pointless, being little more than 'red sky' stories that took place within the altered timelines but offering nothing of interest or value that contributed to the Ultron storyline -- I could have done without them. The Fearless Defenders issue was especially worthless, giving me nothing of the Ultron storyline and not really giving me anything of the book's usual cast or storylines. I would never have pre-ordered those books if I'd known they would be crossovers in name only.
M
I thought Civil War was great...until the ending. I was looking for more.
M
I still think Captain America #25 was Civil War #8. It feels like a much better last issue than Civil War #7.
When I got a promo image from my local comic shop on AoU, I saw it was ten issues in three months with a few tie-ins and two or more specials. I thought "I have had enough with this crap!" and decided not to buy it. After hearing about the details of the series thanks to your show and a few other outlets, I was glad I didn't buy this event series. The LCS manager was surprised and intrigued that I took such a hard stance against this series. Because of a lack of interest, I've even decided to take a hard stance against buying Trinity War. I'm even thinking of not buying Infinity and cutting Avengers as well.
Right now, Image, Dark Horse and Oni have more interesting titles than half of the roster that DC and Marvel put out. I still enjoy the Batman titles, Hawkeye, Daredevil, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, and a few other books from the "Big Two", but I think I'm starting to buy more different books. I see about the same amount of "i"s in my bi-weekly stack compared to the Marvel logo and that cold, corporate piece of garbage of a logo DC uses. I think that is a good change.
And, like, what was even going on at the end of UA10? How were we to know that Universes were colliding if we weren't paying attention to the meta-issue industry information? What kind of ending was that? "We'll just confuse the hell out of the average reader and leave them to surmise that we somehow concluded the story."
I had to step away and recently came back to Age of Ultron #10 but Hank, Tony and McCoy actually say that "We broke the space-time continuum". With all the different abuses of time travel. Then they say, "Imagine these tears in time and space reaching out through all of time and space. Imagine other Universes affected".
Then we see Ultimate Spider-Man swinging he falls, looks up...Galalctus. Then the next page is an ad for the Hunger. Also in the back of the issue they tell you who the characters are. Granted one may not know Galactus is not part of the Ultimate Universe...so yeah...