After two weeks off and three days of work this week I have a much needed day off tomorrow and then closed because of Labor Day. I feel like I've earned this.
I think I understand why Marvel's America Chavez may be selling poorly. I heard that this comic book was for a young audience, like maybe Squirrel Girl and Moon Girl.
Unfortunately Marvel creator timelines on Twitter can be a flea market sometimes.
No, it's more aimed at the 15-25 age range. It's pretty similar in tone to the current Hawkeye (Kate Bishop) series, just not as entertaining. The writing is decent, and the artwork is pretty good. I only read the first couple of issues, though, because at the time it started I was pretty much maxed out on my pull list, and it didn't quite make the cut. I liked it more than Wasp and Moon Girl, but not as much as Squirrel Girl or Hawkeye.
No, it's more aimed at the 15-25 age range. It's pretty similar in tone to the current Hawkeye (Kate Bishop) series, just not as entertaining. The writing is decent, and the artwork is pretty good. I only read the first couple of issues, though, because at the time it started I was pretty much maxed out on my pull list, and it didn't quite make the cut. I liked it more than Wasp and Moon Girl, but not as much as Squirrel Girl or Hawkeye.
Well, there is TONS of high praise for this book out there, but most readers I've chatted with don't seem to think much of it. I wonder why there is such disparity between readers and critics for this book? The reviews between critics and readers at Comic Book RoundUp seem wildly disparate.
In spite of what Marvel's intention was, perhaps hiring a lesbian POC YA writer to pen a lesbian alien-of-color hasn't necessarily equated to good writing. What I've read of it seemed kinda cringy*. As for the art, it started out nice when Joe Quinoes was handling those chores the first few issues, but it's been up and down since. The current artists has a bit of a Quietly vibe.
*an example of kinda cringy
Will this title be saved by Scholastic sales or those nebulous digital sales? I actually don't think it's the type of content for elementary schools, but YMMV.
To be fair, and I have no horse in this race as I've been Marvel free since Secret Wars did wrong to Doctor Zero, you seem to have a demonstrated selection bias against this kind of book. You've talked to other people that don't care for the book either. Is that a diverse sample or an echo chamber?
No, it's more aimed at the 15-25 age range. It's pretty similar in tone to the current Hawkeye (Kate Bishop) series, just not as entertaining. The writing is decent, and the artwork is pretty good. I only read the first couple of issues, though, because at the time it started I was pretty much maxed out on my pull list, and it didn't quite make the cut. I liked it more than Wasp and Moon Girl, but not as much as Squirrel Girl or Hawkeye.
Well, there is TONS of high praise for this book out there, but most readers I've chatted with don't seem to think much of it. I wonder why there is such disparity between readers and critics for this book? The reviews between critics and readers at Comic Book RoundUp seem wildly disparate.
In spite of what Marvel's intention was, perhaps hiring a lesbian POC YA writer to pen a lesbian alien-of-color hasn't necessarily equated to good writing. What I've read of it seemed kinda cringy*. As for the art, it started out nice when Joe Quinoes was handling those chores the first few issues, but it's been up and down since. The current artists has a bit of a Quietly vibe.
*an example of kinda cringy
Will this title be saved by Scholastic sales or those nebulous digital sales? I actually don't think it's the type of content for elementary schools, but YMMV.
Critics come in with their own biases, of course, but they generally try to be open-minded about what they are reviewing (if they want to be taken seriously), and look at the book on multiple levels. Readers don’t usually analyze what they're reading. They like what they like. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't always correspond to critical review.
Rivera’s prose work has gotten rave reviews, and she’s a comic book fan. As with Ta-Nehisi Coates, R. L. Stine, et al, I like that Marvel has reached out to successful writers from other mediums in an effort to bring their audiences into the fold. As we’ve seen, the transition from one medium to another brings a wide variety of results, some great, some lackluster. I think Rivera just needs a little more experience writing for comics. Coates had the advantage of starting off with Brian Stelfreeze, one of the most thoughtful creators out there, and one who is quite adept at teaching the medium. I think that helped speed up Coates’ learning curve immensely. Perhaps Rivera hasn’t had the same level of guidance.
Scholastic also caters to middle schools (in fact, my daughter’s ELA teacher had catalogs right by the classroom door at last week’s open house), where America fits in just fine, I think.
To be fair, and I have no horse in this race as I've been Marvel free since Secret Wars did wrong to Doctor Zero, you seem to have a demonstrated selection bias against this kind of book. You've talked to other people that don't care for the book either. Is that a diverse sample or an echo chamber?
Scholastic also caters to middle schools (in fact, my daughter’s ELA teacher had catalogs right by the classroom door at last week’s open house), where America fits in just fine, I think.
I guess that's probably debatable. If those middle-schoolers live at the intersection of super-strong lesbian Latinx life and zany Grant Morrison-like weirdness, this may become their new favorite. If any of that sounds unappealing, they were never going to like this book anyway, regardless of the writing or art quality.
To be fair, and I have no horse in this race as I've been Marvel free since Secret Wars did wrong to Doctor Zero, you seem to have a demonstrated selection bias against this kind of book. You've talked to other people that don't care for the book either. Is that a diverse sample or an echo chamber?
Do you have a theory as to why there is such disparity between readers and critics for this book?
It's a niche book just like many others? It may be a small niche and if so it will be short lived - unless Marvel feels so strongly that the niche in question is so underrepresented as to devote resources regardless. The cynical side of me says it could also be there as long as they feel that they're getting PR mileage out of supporting the book - like pledging money to a disaster but not actually writing the check... twice.
It's a niche book just like many others? It may be a small niche and if so it will be short lived - unless Marvel feels so strongly that the niche in question is so underrepresented as to devote resources regardless. The cynical side of me says it could also be there as long as they feel that they're getting PR mileage out of supporting the book - like pledging money to a disaster but not actually writing the check... twice.
I think you're on point right up until that last quip. Not sure if you're trying to needle me or make some ad hominem attack on someone completely unrelated to the topic at hand, or both. Maybe you could start a new thread about disaster relief and compare everyone's actual giving versus what they told everyone once people aren't still underwater and the money's all been doled out. Deal?
Can't tell if she's bigoted, racist, prejudiced, just hateful, or all of the above. Thankfully for her fans, her employer doesn't seem to mind.
As for the first tweet, it's hyperbole for sure, and I would say it goes equally for any gathering of massive numbers of drunk people, particularly at a competitive event, but if you’ve ever been to a Flyers hockey game or a soccer match in England, you'll know she has a point. ;)
As for the second, I don't make room for rude, pushy, straight white folks either. But you're probably pointing out the “straight white” part of the sentence. It sounds to me like she had just had a bunch of, to all appearances, straight white folks be rude and pushy towards her, and was venting about it. I've been there, but for me it's usually middle-aged white guys in oversized pick-up trucks driving like a-holes on the highway. I've got several of those stories, like the time the guy passed me while crossing an intersection so that I had to slam on my brakes to keep from hitting him, and was nearly T-boned by the oncoming traffic for my trouble. So I am now admittedly biased against white dudes who drive big pick-up trucks. I try to look past that bias, but they keep making it difficult for me to do so, like that time a couple of months ago where the guy nearly rear-ended me because he was in too big a hurry to pay attention to what the traffic ahead of him was doing. But I digress.
As for the third, is she wrong? :)
With the fourth, I'm not quite sure of her meaning. Taking it literally, it makes her sound close-minded, but to me it sounds more like she’s talking about “mansplaining” or something along those lines. I don't know, but the tone doesn't sound hateful to me, just frustrated. But that's the problem with judging someone based on 140-character nuggets with no good way of judging their tone.
Weird. Didn't see much comic book news or promotions or comments on her twitter feed.
She talked about it in an interview with SyFy or NBC (don't remember which). X-Men fan, specifically Jean Gray. I don't remember what else she mentioned.
I guess that's probably debatable. If those middle-schoolers live at the intersection of super-strong lesbian Latinx life and zany Grant Morrison-like weirdness, this may become their new favorite. If any of that sounds unappealing, they were never going to like this book anyway, regardless of the writing or art quality.
Depends on where you live, I suppose, but there are several openly queer kids at my daughter’s school. And she has friends who are fans of Rick & Morty and such things, so I wouldn't think Morrison-esque weirdness would be out of the question. I was playing D&D and reading Phillip K. Dick in 5th grade, so who am I to assume middle schoolers don't like stuff that's a bit out there.
It's a niche book just like many others? It may be a small niche and if so it will be short lived - unless Marvel feels so strongly that the niche in question is so underrepresented as to devote resources regardless. The cynical side of me says it could also be there as long as they feel that they're getting PR mileage out of supporting the book - like pledging money to a disaster but not actually writing the check... twice.
Let’s face it, all comics are niche books, some are just a little more niche than others. I think PR certainly plays a role in books like America, but so does trying to penetrate into other demographics, other market groups, etc. In other words, Marvel is trying to do what pretty much every business does—expand its visibility and market size so it can make more money down the road.
It's a niche book just like many others? It may be a small niche and if so it will be short lived - unless Marvel feels so strongly that the niche in question is so underrepresented as to devote resources regardless. The cynical side of me says it could also be there as long as they feel that they're getting PR mileage out of supporting the book - like pledging money to a disaster but not actually writing the check... twice.
I think you're on point right up until that last quip. Not sure if you're trying to needle me or make some ad hominem attack on someone completely unrelated to the topic at hand, or both. Maybe you could start a new thread about disaster relief and compare everyone's actual giving versus what they told everyone once people aren't still underwater and the money's all been doled out. Deal?
Not targeted at you, just using an example of a current event where it appears that a known narcissist likes the feel good adoration of pledging without the actual expense of writing checks to go with the pledges, or construction contracts or....
I prefer donating to local organizations when possible. These groups all got high ratings from Charity Navigator:
Greater Houston Community Foundation Houston Food Bank United Way of Greater Houston South Texas Blood and Tissue Center Food Bank of Corpus Christi Houston Humane Society San Antonio Humane Society Catholic Charities of the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston L.G.B.T.Q. Disaster Relief Fund
It's a niche book just like many others? It may be a small niche and if so it will be short lived - unless Marvel feels so strongly that the niche in question is so underrepresented as to devote resources regardless. The cynical side of me says it could also be there as long as they feel that they're getting PR mileage out of supporting the book - like pledging money to a disaster but not actually writing the check... twice.
Let’s face it, all comics are niche books, some are just a little more niche than others. I think PR certainly plays a role in books like America, but so does trying to penetrate into other demographics, other market groups, etc. In other words, Marvel is trying to do what pretty much every business does—expand its visibility and market size so it can make more money down the road.
Agreed as to all comics being niche books, however, there's quite a bit of overlap in the niches of quite a few of them. Like I said, I really don't have a horse in the race. Just trying to point out that just because it's not @bralinator's, nor my cuppa doesn't mean that it's not outside of everyone's wheelhouse.
Browns about to pay Brock Osweiller $16m to play for the Broncos & Joe Haden $4m to play for the Steelers. I don't think this is how "Moneyball" works.
Browns about to pay Brock Osweiller $16m to play for the Broncos & Joe Haden $4m to play for the Steelers. I don't think this is how "Moneyball" works.
More like “Gotmoremoneythanweknowwhattodowithball”.
that's the problem with judging someone based on 140-character nuggets with no good way of judging their tone.
Nice job! You definitely get an "A" for effort Eric - if you can ignore all the misandry and discrimination.
What I find troubling was her penchant for labeling people by color. She demonstrates blatant discrimination and admits she treats people differently (when it comes to white, straights, and males), and views them in a demeaning way, based on skin color, sex, and sexual orientation. This carries over into the book.
Not targeted at you, just using an example of a current event where it appears that a known narcissist likes the feel good adoration of pledging without the actual expense of writing checks to go with the pledges, or construction contracts or....
Not sure how that had anything to do with Gabby Rivera's comic and her views, but if you felt compelled to virtue-signal about U.S. politics, so be it.
My state of North Carolina may revoke my citizenship for saying this, but I never liked Ric Flair’s shtick. Glad he’s doing well and all, but I just couldn't get into his act.
that's the problem with judging someone based on 140-character nuggets with no good way of judging their tone.
Nice job! You definitely get an "A" for effort Eric - if you can ignore all the misandry and discrimination.
What I find troubling was her penchant for labeling people by color. She demonstrates blatant discrimination and admits she treats people differently (when it comes to white, straights, and males), and views them in a demeaning way, based on skin color, sex, and sexual orientation. This carries over into the book.
Not targeted at you, just using an example of a current event where it appears that a known narcissist likes the feel good adoration of pledging without the actual expense of writing checks to go with the pledges, or construction contracts or....
Not sure how that had anything to do with Gabby Rivera's comic and her views, but if you felt compelled to virtue-signal about U.S. politics, so be it.
Had nothing to do with Gabby Rivera and everything to do with the notion that Marvel could well maintain a title just to be able to say that they were engaging a specific demographic.
I signal nothing virtuous about that or the current political train wreck.
Had nothing to do with Gabby Rivera and everything to do with the notion that Marvel could well maintain a title just to be able to say that they were engaging a specific demographic.
Ahh. I needed the clarification. Thanks. Marvel is definitely writing some checks though, cause the book apparently isn't selling.
Comments
Los Angeles Chargers
Los Angeles Chargers
Los Angeles Chargers
Los Angeles Chargers
....
Los Angeles Chargers
Unfortunately Marvel creator timelines on Twitter can be a flea market sometimes.
There's plenty more. Have we learned nothing from Dan Slott or Nick Spencer?
Well, there is TONS of high praise for this book out there, but most readers I've chatted with don't seem to think much of it. I wonder why there is such disparity between readers and critics for this book? The reviews between critics and readers at Comic Book RoundUp seem wildly disparate.
In spite of what Marvel's intention was, perhaps hiring a lesbian POC YA writer to pen a lesbian alien-of-color hasn't necessarily equated to good writing. What I've read of it seemed kinda cringy*. As for the art, it started out nice when Joe Quinoes was handling those chores the first few issues, but it's been up and down since. The current artists has a bit of a Quietly vibe.
*an example of kinda cringy
Will this title be saved by Scholastic sales or those nebulous digital sales? I actually don't think it's the type of content for elementary schools, but YMMV.
Rivera’s prose work has gotten rave reviews, and she’s a comic book fan. As with Ta-Nehisi Coates, R. L. Stine, et al, I like that Marvel has reached out to successful writers from other mediums in an effort to bring their audiences into the fold. As we’ve seen, the transition from one medium to another brings a wide variety of results, some great, some lackluster. I think Rivera just needs a little more experience writing for comics. Coates had the advantage of starting off with Brian Stelfreeze, one of the most thoughtful creators out there, and one who is quite adept at teaching the medium. I think that helped speed up Coates’ learning curve immensely. Perhaps Rivera hasn’t had the same level of guidance.
Scholastic also caters to middle schools (in fact, my daughter’s ELA teacher had catalogs right by the classroom door at last week’s open house), where America fits in just fine, I think.
Do you have a theory as to why there is such disparity between readers and critics for this book?
Can't tell if she's bigoted, racist, prejudiced, just hateful, or all of the above. Thankfully for her fans, her employer doesn't seem to mind. Weird. Didn't see much comic book news or promotions or comments on her twitter feed. I guess that's probably debatable. If those middle-schoolers live at the intersection of super-strong lesbian Latinx life and zany Grant Morrison-like weirdness, this may become their new favorite. If any of that sounds unappealing, they were never going to like this book anyway, regardless of the writing or art quality.
I personally recommend donating to the Salvation Army or the North American Mission Board.
As for the second, I don't make room for rude, pushy, straight white folks either. But you're probably pointing out the “straight white” part of the sentence. It sounds to me like she had just had a bunch of, to all appearances, straight white folks be rude and pushy towards her, and was venting about it. I've been there, but for me it's usually middle-aged white guys in oversized pick-up trucks driving like a-holes on the highway. I've got several of those stories, like the time the guy passed me while crossing an intersection so that I had to slam on my brakes to keep from hitting him, and was nearly T-boned by the oncoming traffic for my trouble. So I am now admittedly biased against white dudes who drive big pick-up trucks. I try to look past that bias, but they keep making it difficult for me to do so, like that time a couple of months ago where the guy nearly rear-ended me because he was in too big a hurry to pay attention to what the traffic ahead of him was doing. But I digress.
As for the third, is she wrong? :)
With the fourth, I'm not quite sure of her meaning. Taking it literally, it makes her sound close-minded, but to me it sounds more like she’s talking about “mansplaining” or something along those lines. I don't know, but the tone doesn't sound hateful to me, just frustrated. But that's the problem with judging someone based on 140-character nuggets with no good way of judging their tone.
Greater Houston Community Foundation
Houston Food Bank
United Way of Greater Houston
South Texas Blood and Tissue Center
Food Bank of Corpus Christi
Houston Humane Society
San Antonio Humane Society
Catholic Charities of the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston
L.G.B.T.Q. Disaster Relief Fund
What I find troubling was her penchant for labeling people by color. She demonstrates blatant discrimination and admits she treats people differently (when it comes to white, straights, and males), and views them in a demeaning way, based on skin color, sex, and sexual orientation. This carries over into the book. Not sure how that had anything to do with Gabby Rivera's comic and her views, but if you felt compelled to virtue-signal about U.S. politics, so be it.
Love Nature Boy®
I signal nothing virtuous about that or the current political train wreck.
Any thoughts on Ric Flair?