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Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (Spoilers)

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Comments

  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Planeis said:

    Are you calling me stupid?

    No.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    edited June 2014
    Matt said:
    I think that's good-- as I said before, I think having a normally not bald actor, especially one we recognize, shave their head to play Luthor feels like a stunt. If that photo is legit, then he looks more like the kind of Luthor (and age, and kind of industry) they are going for.

    For me, Luthor's baldness is the least interesting thing about him. In fact, it is the thing that usually smacks of the juvenile versions of the character where he hates Superman because he blames him for the accident that made him bald. Personally, the versions of Luthor that sees himself as humanities answer to, and defense against, "the alien" are much more interesting to me.

    I would rather a Luthor that thinks and acts on the scale of concern about, and pride in his species, rather than his pride in his appearance.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    WetRats said:

    Matt said:

    Matt said:
    I'm not crazy about it either. Basically, it isn't Lex Luthor.
    Well, to be fair, Hackman & Shea had hair during the majority of their scenes. Lex II had hair when he emerged from seclusion. Whose to say it is a Sam Malone fake or that he'll lose his hair in the movie?

    M
    Being bald is the lest interesting thing about Lex Luthor.

    So many people shave their heads currently, that it doesn't stand out.

    What's important about Luthor is his brilliance., his complete sense of always being the smartest man in the room, and his personal gravitas being such that nobody ever doubts his brilliance.

    It appears they're "reimagining" him as an arrogant little dotcom twerp. I apologize if I'm being size-ist, but if Lex Luthor can't stand eye-to-eye with Superman and be completely confident he's the better man, he'll be just another of the sad clowns the movies keep trying to pass of as Lex Luthor.
    I ended up saying the same thing about about his baldness before I read your post. But I disagree about the size. If anything, a waifish Luthor had that much more to prove with his wits. As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And maybe this is me being sizest the other direction, but I often enjoy a villain who is not a big physical presence. Put another way, we even get the sense from the text that Othello could crush Iago with his hands anytime. But we know who wins that one.

  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 6,748
    I think it's interesting to compare Lex Luthor and Dr. Doom. Both are generally considered the top villains of their respective companies. Both have a burning need to prove their superiority over their arch nemeses. Both have suits of armor that are the sources of their physical power. And both have physical flaws for which they blame their arch nemeses.

    Yet Dr. Doom has always seemed, to me at least, to be a more credible threat. Discuss.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884

    I think it's interesting to compare Lex Luthor and Dr. Doom. Both are generally considered the top villains of their respective companies. Both have a burning need to prove their superiority over their arch nemeses. Both have suits of armor that are the sources of their physical power. And both have physical flaws for which they blame their arch nemeses.

    Yet Dr. Doom has always seemed, to me at least, to be a more credible threat. Discuss.

    Agreed.

    BECAUSE OF DOOM.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    edited June 2014
    . . . And, to expand a bit, to me Dr. Doom is a perfect super-villain in all the grand and wonderful excess of the 1960s MU.

    He is:

    A Time Traveling
    Iron Mask and Robot Armored
    Dark Magic Using
    Mad Scientist
    Monarch
    And Former Roommate.

    I mean, come ON. How great is that?? It is totally ridiculous. Like a character you generate in a one-upmanship game of Calvinball. And, somehow, it WORKS.

    Don't get me wrong, Luthor can be great, too. But I think it says something that we have had a number of different kinds and flavors of Luthors over the years. Work has to be put in to try to fit him to the times. To make him still seem a threat. To make him still seem relevant.

    Wheras the 1960s Doom can show up and still be great.
  • Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    Matt said:

    Matt said:
    I'm not crazy about it either. Basically, it isn't Lex Luthor.
    Well, to be fair, Hackman & Shea had hair during the majority of their scenes. Lex II had hair when he emerged from seclusion. Whose to say it is a Sam Malone fake or that he'll lose his hair in the movie?

    M
    Yeah, I never bought into Shea as Luthor either. Hackman, at least, did portray Luthor as being bald, but wearing a cheap toupee.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    David_D said:

    I ended up saying the same thing about about his baldness before I read your post. But I disagree about the size. If anything, a waifish Luthor had that much more to prove with his wits. As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And maybe this is me being sizest the other direction, but I often enjoy a villain who is not a big physical presence. Put another way, we even get the sense from the text that Othello could crush Iago with his hands anytime. But we know who wins that one.

    By shrinking Luthor, you turn him into Dr. Sivana.

    Nobody's gonna elect Dr. Sivana president.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    David_D said:

    As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And yet there he his.

    Looking him straight in those laser eyes.

    Fully convinced of his own superiority.

    *That's* Luthor.

    Not some fast-talking real-estate hustler, not some waifish boy genius with something to prove.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    edited June 2014
    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    I ended up saying the same thing about about his baldness before I read your post. But I disagree about the size. If anything, a waifish Luthor had that much more to prove with his wits. As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And maybe this is me being sizest the other direction, but I often enjoy a villain who is not a big physical presence. Put another way, we even get the sense from the text that Othello could crush Iago with his hands anytime. But we know who wins that one.

    By shrinking Luthor, you turn him into Dr. Sivana.

    Nobody's gonna elect Dr. Sivana president.
    As someone who shares Eisenberg's height, I would say we've got a good foot on Silvana. I mean, I know we all look the same to you people ;)

    And, to sidebar a sidebar for a second- is Luthor usually portrayed as being as tall as Superman in the books? If so I guess that never struck me. Sure, he usually has seemed fit. But I don't remember reading Luthor in the comics and thinking 'now there is a big, tough guy', you know what I mean? That never seemed to me an important detail.

    And the current Milenneials might totally elect a Zuckerberg type president later in life when they vote more regularly. It could be argued that- in the age of innovators as thought leaders- that the physical type of what we look at as a leader may change. Certainly when we look back over the ays that the conventional body types for beauty have changed, or for action heroes have changed, it may be that what people think a leader should look like is changing, too.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    edited June 2014
    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And yet there he his.

    Looking him straight in those laser eyes.

    Fully convinced of his own superiority.

    *That's* Luthor.

    Not some fast-talking real-estate hustler, not some waifish boy genius with something to prove.
    To me, the Luthor who plays the scene more high status is the better Luthor-- the one who doesn't need to stand up out of the chair when The alien is in the room. The one smart enough to put no pride whatsoever in whether or not he is the aliens physical match. As that is only the way a lesser man would try to beat him.

    To me, standing chest to chest with him is the act of someone with something to prove. And a fool, given the steel chest and all that.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    David_D said:

    As someone who shares Eisenberg's height, I would say we've got a good foot on Silvana. I mean, I know we all look the same to you people ;)

    *sigh*

    This is why I shuddered to broach the subject.

    :(
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    As someone who shares Eisenberg's height, I would say we've got a good foot on Silvana. I mean, I know we all look the same to you people ;)

    *sigh*

    This is why I shuddered to broach the subject.

    :(
    Was that a shudder? I thought you were just swaying in the wind.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And yet there he his.

    Looking him straight in those laser eyes.

    Fully convinced of his own superiority.

    *That's* Luthor.

    Not some fast-talking real-estate hustler, not some waifish boy genius with something to prove.
    To me, the Luthor who plays the scene more high status is the better Luthor-- the one who doesn't need to stand up out of the chair when The alien is in the room. The one smart enough to put no pride whatsoever in whether or not he is the aliens physical match. As that is only the way a lesser man would try to beat him.

    To me, standing chest to chest with him is the act of someone with something to prove. And a fool, given the steel chest and all that.
    To me, putting myself in Luthor's head, every time Superman *doesn't* use those Eyes of Death, let alone the myriad other ways he could casually obliterate a "mere human," is a sign of weakness, of capitulation. Luthor knows he's stronger than Superman, because he knows he wouldn't hesitate to do so.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    edited June 2014
    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And yet there he his.

    Looking him straight in those laser eyes.

    Fully convinced of his own superiority.

    *That's* Luthor.

    Not some fast-talking real-estate hustler, not some waifish boy genius with something to prove.
    To me, the Luthor who plays the scene more high status is the better Luthor-- the one who doesn't need to stand up out of the chair when The alien is in the room. The one smart enough to put no pride whatsoever in whether or not he is the aliens physical match. As that is only the way a lesser man would try to beat him.

    To me, standing chest to chest with him is the act of someone with something to prove. And a fool, given the steel chest and all that.
    To me, putting myself in Luthor's head, every time Superman *doesn't* use those Eyes of Death, let alone the myriad other ways he could casually obliterate a "mere human," is a sign of weakness, of capitulation. Luthor knows he's stronger than Superman, because he knows he wouldn't hesitate to do so.
    I have always enjoyed the interpretation of Lex seeing himself as the hero of Earth & Kent being no more then 'How to Serve Man.'

    Great villains don't see themselves as villains.

    M
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And yet there he his.

    Looking him straight in those laser eyes.

    Fully convinced of his own superiority.

    *That's* Luthor.

    Not some fast-talking real-estate hustler, not some waifish boy genius with something to prove.
    To me, the Luthor who plays the scene more high status is the better Luthor-- the one who doesn't need to stand up out of the chair when The alien is in the room. The one smart enough to put no pride whatsoever in whether or not he is the aliens physical match. As that is only the way a lesser man would try to beat him.

    To me, standing chest to chest with him is the act of someone with something to prove. And a fool, given the steel chest and all that.
    To me, putting myself in Luthor's head, every time Superman *doesn't* use those Eyes of Death, let alone the myriad other ways he could casually obliterate a "mere human," is a sign of weakness, of capitulation. Luthor knows he's stronger than Superman, because he knows he wouldn't hesitate to do so.
    I can see that. And that works as a choice, too. Though to me, that bravery is not lessened if a Luthor had to look up at the alien to do so. In fact, that might even be more brave.

    And it may just be that you and I would direct a scene like that differently. Lately I am more often directing young people, and in confrontation scenes (a la the street fights in R&J) I tend to keep actors away from each other until it is time to kiss or kill someone. Because otherwise eye-to-eye is a moment that one person or the other has to win or lose. Again, just preference.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    Matt said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And yet there he his.

    Looking him straight in those laser eyes.

    Fully convinced of his own superiority.

    *That's* Luthor.

    Not some fast-talking real-estate hustler, not some waifish boy genius with something to prove.
    To me, the Luthor who plays the scene more high status is the better Luthor-- the one who doesn't need to stand up out of the chair when The alien is in the room. The one smart enough to put no pride whatsoever in whether or not he is the aliens physical match. As that is only the way a lesser man would try to beat him.

    To me, standing chest to chest with him is the act of someone with something to prove. And a fool, given the steel chest and all that.
    To me, putting myself in Luthor's head, every time Superman *doesn't* use those Eyes of Death, let alone the myriad other ways he could casually obliterate a "mere human," is a sign of weakness, of capitulation. Luthor knows he's stronger than Superman, because he knows he wouldn't hesitate to do so.
    I have always enjoyed the interpretation of Lex seeing himself as the hero of Earth & Kent being no more then 'How to Serve Man.'

    Great villains don't see themselves as villains.

    M
    Be the hero? Sure. But be LOVED and praised as the hero. Nothing selfless about it. He wants to save humanity because he sees himself as the best of them. Not to serve them in any way.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    David_D said:

    Matt said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And yet there he his.

    Looking him straight in those laser eyes.

    Fully convinced of his own superiority.

    *That's* Luthor.

    Not some fast-talking real-estate hustler, not some waifish boy genius with something to prove.
    To me, the Luthor who plays the scene more high status is the better Luthor-- the one who doesn't need to stand up out of the chair when The alien is in the room. The one smart enough to put no pride whatsoever in whether or not he is the aliens physical match. As that is only the way a lesser man would try to beat him.

    To me, standing chest to chest with him is the act of someone with something to prove. And a fool, given the steel chest and all that.
    To me, putting myself in Luthor's head, every time Superman *doesn't* use those Eyes of Death, let alone the myriad other ways he could casually obliterate a "mere human," is a sign of weakness, of capitulation. Luthor knows he's stronger than Superman, because he knows he wouldn't hesitate to do so.
    I have always enjoyed the interpretation of Lex seeing himself as the hero of Earth & Kent being no more then 'How to Serve Man.'

    Great villains don't see themselves as villains.

    M
    Be the hero? Sure. But be LOVED and praised as the hero. Nothing selfless about it. He wants to save humanity because he sees himself as the best of them. Not to serve them in any way.
    Exactly, Lex wants to be the hero & save Earth from Kent's forthcoming tyranny...and get praised & worshipped by people for it!

    M
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    Matt said:

    David_D said:

    Matt said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    As, let's face it, what does it matter if you can stand eye to eye with a guy that shoots lasers out of his? Luthor could be the size of Vin Diesel and he still is in no way a physical threat to the alien.

    And yet there he his.

    Looking him straight in those laser eyes.

    Fully convinced of his own superiority.

    *That's* Luthor.

    Not some fast-talking real-estate hustler, not some waifish boy genius with something to prove.
    To me, the Luthor who plays the scene more high status is the better Luthor-- the one who doesn't need to stand up out of the chair when The alien is in the room. The one smart enough to put no pride whatsoever in whether or not he is the aliens physical match. As that is only the way a lesser man would try to beat him.

    To me, standing chest to chest with him is the act of someone with something to prove. And a fool, given the steel chest and all that.
    To me, putting myself in Luthor's head, every time Superman *doesn't* use those Eyes of Death, let alone the myriad other ways he could casually obliterate a "mere human," is a sign of weakness, of capitulation. Luthor knows he's stronger than Superman, because he knows he wouldn't hesitate to do so.
    I have always enjoyed the interpretation of Lex seeing himself as the hero of Earth & Kent being no more then 'How to Serve Man.'

    Great villains don't see themselves as villains.

    M
    Be the hero? Sure. But be LOVED and praised as the hero. Nothing selfless about it. He wants to save humanity because he sees himself as the best of them. Not to serve them in any way.
    Exactly, Lex wants to be the hero & save Earth from Kent's forthcoming tyranny...and get praised & worshipped by people for it!

    M
    Agreed.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    David_D said:

    Be the hero? Sure. But be LOVED and praised as the hero. Nothing selfless about it. He wants to save humanity because he sees himself as the best of them. Not to serve them in any way.

    Bingo.

    Although I would say he sees it as his duty, as the greatest MAN on Earth, as well as his right. It's not just jealousy, there's an element of revulsion as well.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    David_D said:

    I can see that. And that works as a choice, too. Though to me, that bravery is not lessened if a Luthor had to look up at the alien to do so. In fact, that might even be more brave.

    And it may just be that you and I would direct a scene like that differently. Lately I am more often directing young people, and in confrontation scenes (a la the street fights in R&J) I tend to keep actors away from each other until it is time to kiss or kill someone. Because otherwise eye-to-eye is a moment that one person or the other has to win or lose. Again, just preference.

    I don't see Luthor choosing to "get in Superman's face", but when Superman gets physical, as he always does, being utterly unfazed is Luthor's power. (His superpower?)
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    I can see that. And that works as a choice, too. Though to me, that bravery is not lessened if a Luthor had to look up at the alien to do so. In fact, that might even be more brave.

    And it may just be that you and I would direct a scene like that differently. Lately I am more often directing young people, and in confrontation scenes (a la the street fights in R&J) I tend to keep actors away from each other until it is time to kiss or kill someone. Because otherwise eye-to-eye is a moment that one person or the other has to win or lose. Again, just preference.

    I don't see Luthor choosing to "get in Superman's face", but when Superman gets physical, as he always does, being utterly unfazed is Luthor's power. (His superpower?)
    I think that is well put.

    But, for me, the highest status place in the room is still sitting behind the desk. For the alien to crash through the wall and you don't even stand up.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    Be the hero? Sure. But be LOVED and praised as the hero. Nothing selfless about it. He wants to save humanity because he sees himself as the best of them. Not to serve them in any way.

    Bingo.

    Although I would say he sees it as his duty, as the greatest MAN on Earth, as well as his right. It's not just jealousy, there's an element of revulsion as well.
    Hmm. I wouldn't go with duty. Because I think Luthor would save the test of humanity, but is revolted by them, too.

    But he will *choose* to save them. But that is choice. Not duty.

    (To be fair, that is a very fine distinction.)
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    I can see that. And that works as a choice, too. Though to me, that bravery is not lessened if a Luthor had to look up at the alien to do so. In fact, that might even be more brave.

    And it may just be that you and I would direct a scene like that differently. Lately I am more often directing young people, and in confrontation scenes (a la the street fights in R&J) I tend to keep actors away from each other until it is time to kiss or kill someone. Because otherwise eye-to-eye is a moment that one person or the other has to win or lose. Again, just preference.

    I don't see Luthor choosing to "get in Superman's face", but when Superman gets physical, as he always does, being utterly unfazed is Luthor's power. (His superpower?)
    I think that is well put.

    But, for me, the highest status place in the room is still sitting behind the desk. For the alien to crash through the wall and you don't even stand up.
    Yeah, like "I don't see you on the pedestal others do. You're not even my peer".


    I think that's what I like about Batman's interaction with Kent of late. To some extent, most of the other heroes look up to Kent as this amazing superhero. Batman sees him as a peer. No pedestal, no godlike status. Just a peer in what they do. Its a way (only with how he addresses him) to keep Kent grounded with his humanity.

    Perhaps similar to what Lex is trying to do, but with a different motive & point of view. Lex looks to reduce Kent, Batman looks to keep him just grounded.

    M
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    I can see that. And that works as a choice, too. Though to me, that bravery is not lessened if a Luthor had to look up at the alien to do so. In fact, that might even be more brave.

    And it may just be that you and I would direct a scene like that differently. Lately I am more often directing young people, and in confrontation scenes (a la the street fights in R&J) I tend to keep actors away from each other until it is time to kiss or kill someone. Because otherwise eye-to-eye is a moment that one person or the other has to win or lose. Again, just preference.

    I don't see Luthor choosing to "get in Superman's face", but when Superman gets physical, as he always does, being utterly unfazed is Luthor's power. (His superpower?)
    I think that is well put.

    But, for me, the highest status place in the room is still sitting behind the desk. For the alien to crash through the wall and you don't even stand up.
    But when the spaceman loses his cool, as he always does, and jerks you out of the chair, and you just smile at him, look him in those freakish orbs of obliteration, and know he's too crippled by his self-imposed limits to do anything more, you win.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    I can see that. And that works as a choice, too. Though to me, that bravery is not lessened if a Luthor had to look up at the alien to do so. In fact, that might even be more brave.

    And it may just be that you and I would direct a scene like that differently. Lately I am more often directing young people, and in confrontation scenes (a la the street fights in R&J) I tend to keep actors away from each other until it is time to kiss or kill someone. Because otherwise eye-to-eye is a moment that one person or the other has to win or lose. Again, just preference.

    I don't see Luthor choosing to "get in Superman's face", but when Superman gets physical, as he always does, being utterly unfazed is Luthor's power. (His superpower?)
    I think that is well put.

    But, for me, the highest status place in the room is still sitting behind the desk. For the alien to crash through the wall and you don't even stand up.
    But when the spaceman loses his cool, as he always does, and jerks you out of the chair, and you just smile at him, look him in those freakish orbs of obliteration, and know he's too crippled by his self-imposed limits to do anything more, you win.
    Well, yes.

    But when the spaceman is holding you up by the collar, everyone is the same height, no? ;)

  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    David_D said:

    But when the spaceman is holding you up by the collar, everyone is the same height, no? ;)

    But when he lets go of that collar, the tall man is standing and the short man is falling.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    But when the spaceman is holding you up by the collar, everyone is the same height, no? ;)

    But when he lets go of that collar, the tall man is standing and the short man is falling.
    Unless he's lowered onto a desk so they can continue the eye to eye conversation (tried finding the clip from Night Court episode "Who was that Mashed Man" but couldn't)

    M
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Matt said:

    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    I can see that. And that works as a choice, too. Though to me, that bravery is not lessened if a Luthor had to look up at the alien to do so. In fact, that might even be more brave.

    And it may just be that you and I would direct a scene like that differently. Lately I am more often directing young people, and in confrontation scenes (a la the street fights in R&J) I tend to keep actors away from each other until it is time to kiss or kill someone. Because otherwise eye-to-eye is a moment that one person or the other has to win or lose. Again, just preference.

    I don't see Luthor choosing to "get in Superman's face", but when Superman gets physical, as he always does, being utterly unfazed is Luthor's power. (His superpower?)
    I think that is well put.

    But, for me, the highest status place in the room is still sitting behind the desk. For the alien to crash through the wall and you don't even stand up.
    Yeah, like "I don't see you on the pedestal others do. You're not even my peer".


    I think that's what I like about Batman's interaction with Kent of late. To some extent, most of the other heroes look up to Kent as this amazing superhero. Batman sees him as a peer. No pedestal, no godlike status. Just a peer in what they do. Its a way (only with how he addresses him) to keep Kent grounded with his humanity.

    Perhaps similar to what Lex is trying to do, but with a different motive & point of view. Lex looks to reduce Kent, Batman looks to keep him just grounded.

    M
    The difference is Luthor is appalled by Superman, while Batman is afraid of Superman.

    Luthor sees Superman as an obstacle, Batman sees him as a threat.

    Neither of them can conceive that Superman's greatest power is his super-restraint. He can kill you just by looking at you funny, but he doesn't.

    Batman fears Superman for the same reason Luthor is contemptuous, he knows *he'd* use those powers ruthlessly if *he* had them.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    WetRats said:

    Matt said:

    David_D said:

    WetRats said:

    David_D said:

    I can see that. And that works as a choice, too. Though to me, that bravery is not lessened if a Luthor had to look up at the alien to do so. In fact, that might even be more brave.

    And it may just be that you and I would direct a scene like that differently. Lately I am more often directing young people, and in confrontation scenes (a la the street fights in R&J) I tend to keep actors away from each other until it is time to kiss or kill someone. Because otherwise eye-to-eye is a moment that one person or the other has to win or lose. Again, just preference.

    I don't see Luthor choosing to "get in Superman's face", but when Superman gets physical, as he always does, being utterly unfazed is Luthor's power. (His superpower?)
    I think that is well put.

    But, for me, the highest status place in the room is still sitting behind the desk. For the alien to crash through the wall and you don't even stand up.
    Yeah, like "I don't see you on the pedestal others do. You're not even my peer".


    I think that's what I like about Batman's interaction with Kent of late. To some extent, most of the other heroes look up to Kent as this amazing superhero. Batman sees him as a peer. No pedestal, no godlike status. Just a peer in what they do. Its a way (only with how he addresses him) to keep Kent grounded with his humanity.

    Perhaps similar to what Lex is trying to do, but with a different motive & point of view. Lex looks to reduce Kent, Batman looks to keep him just grounded.

    M
    The difference is Luthor is appalled by Superman, while Batman is afraid of Superman.

    Luthor sees Superman as an obstacle, Batman sees him as a threat.

    Neither of them can conceive that Superman's greatest power is his super-restraint. He can kill you just by looking at you funny, but he doesn't.

    Batman fears Superman for the same reason Luthor is contemptuous, he knows *he'd* use those powers ruthlessly if *he* had them.
    I'm confused; Batman would misuse those powers if he had them?

    If that's what you're saying, I strongly disagree. I've never seen anything that would indicate Batman would be corrupted with such level of power.

    M
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