Episode 1469 - Comic Talk
Adam_Murdough
Posts: 506
It's the right time of the week for Comic Talk, and neither snow nor rain nor swollen tongue (Jamie's) will stay these Geeks from entertaining you with their comics-correlative conversation! This episode contains the usual listener feedback and trivia; some TV talk (with SPOILERS!) vis-a-vis 'The Walking Dead,' 'Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.,' 'Arrow,' and the primetime special 'Marvel: Assembling a Universe'; Shane's reaction to his first taste of Ed Brubaker's Captain America; and other trifles. (1:22:14)
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Going to Wikipedia, as I often do, I find these: DC movies and Marvel movies.
For DC, including non-superhero movies (the second list), but not including animated, I count 21.
For Marvel, (no list like DC's second), I count 30.
Another issue though, why start at 1999?
Feel free to amalgamate, if possible, into that episode's thread when it gets created (I'm not allowed to create that thread, am I?).
Also, based on those lists, no animation and only released films for Marvel since 1999 is 33 (Not counting Man-Thing, which was a TV release in the U.S., or short films, but adding in the list from Marvel Imprints farther down on the page).
The more telling, rather than the past, is that at this point, there is one DC character/s film slated to come out, while Marvel has 13.
I don't think that the 1999 date is as arbitrary as it seems, but I'm also not sure that it fits perfectly with the idea being expressed.
I believe Shane was talking about the "revival" of the superhero film, which came in at the late 90's. Many folks say that X-Men was what started this, but just as many will give credit to Blade, which came out in 1998.
Blade came in at a time when the Batman franchise (the only profitable superhero film series at the time) was going off the rails, kicking off a more serious, (arguably) higher quality type of film.
I think you can actually see some of the influence that Blade had on the first X-Men film, but, either way, the late 90's does seem to be a marker for a turn in superhero films.
It is all waves, though. Whatever new film causes the most ripples in the pond after a period of stagnancy could be considered a starting point. It could be argued that the first Superman film in 1978 could be a start, or the first Burton Batman film in 1989, or one could say that things changed again in 2008 (with the introduction of the first Marvel produced Marvel character film), some would say 2005 with Batman Begins.
@Adam_Murdough and @ShaneKelly stop whatever you are doing and go read Y: the last man right now. Seriously, right now.
@JamieD I know you guys don't pay a lot of attention to the marketing for the movies to avoid spoilers but Marvel hasn't considered the identity of the Winter Soldier a secret. Everything other than the commercials and trailers has been pretty explicit. They even had Sebastian Stan out there talking about his 9-film contract with Marvel. They want people to know. So it's not that surprising that they would just casually throw it out there on the special.
(Of course, I never seem to get anything read anyway, but... y'know.)
It is what it is, it just surprised me the way they did it in the TV special.
I was thinking about all the Marvel movies which came out since X-men in what I thought was 1999. However, I counted Blade not thinking it came out In 1998.
Now with DC, I think I counted movies from Superman in 1978 to present.
I did no formal calculating or looking up. What I was thinking and amazed at was how many Marvel movies there have been with so many different Marvel characters / properties in the last 15 - 16 years and pretty successful for the most part.
While DC has had way less movies and most of them only feature Batman and Superman and that is over a much longer period of time.
Just meaning I wish DC could hit that sweet spot and produce a variety of characters and movies. As much as I love Batman and Superman movies and thought another Green Lantern could have potential I want a DC Universe to go along with a Marvel Universe.
I did not count any animated movies of any kind.
I'm completely with you on "Secret Avengers." It was such a good read. Funny, cool, smart. And Modok's exchanges with Maria Hill? Classic. They were like an old married couple. Stated elsewhere that this one has rocketed to the top of my "must read" list now. Can't recommend it highly enough.
Much like like Shane was saying though, for me, Marvel has brought me more and more into their comics in the recent year or two. I still read a lot of DC and still really enjoy it, but I have broadened my horizons with Marvel outside of what I was getting in the past. I always got titles from both companies, but with Marvel I used to just get the main Spider-Man title of Amazing, 2 or 3 Avengers titles, and 4 or 5 X-Men titles. These days I'm also getting The Punisher, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Superior Foes of Spider-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, Nova, New Warriors, etc. just to nanme quite a few. And I am enjoying all of them. I have made it a practice now to try each new title of theirs for at least an issue (unless it completely turns me away from even doing that, which has been rare). I do the same with DC. I have also branched out with a lot more independents than I ever did before (thanks to podcasts like this one). I truly feel I am a lot more well-rounded comic reader these days and it's because, in my opinion, everyone is putting out some quality titles....you just might have to try a bit more than before to find them.
I thought The Walking Dead did a terrific job of adapting one of the more heart-wrenching moments of the comic in "The Grove."
Considering how different the characters and relationships are on the show when compared to the comics, I did not know if we were going to get there. And yet we did. And it hurt just about as bad here, even with different parties involved. Apparently there truly is no innocence left in the land of the dead.
Damn.
I will say that a lot of good DC series are going under the radar. Charles Soule's Swamp Thing has been wonderful: a ton of thought goes into every issue, and there have actually been a handful of great NEW characters introduced. Ditto with Jeff Lemire's Green Arrow (at least, I liked the first TPB collection, which I read a few days ago). Why more people aren't talking about these series, I don't know. I pessimistically think that maybe if the series were relaunched with new #1s last year when the current writers took over, maybe then more people would have paid attention. I also think that Azzarello & Chaing's Wonder Woman is basically the only original New 52 series that has held up and maintained a pretty high level of quality throughout. It's self-contained and consistent. Why more people don't care about it -- I don't know.
On the other hand, I have to happily admit that Marvel simply has MORE quality series out there. Even if they're relaunched more often, and even if most artists are rotating around from title to title every new months, it's still a murderers row of talent over there. I read over a dozen Marvel titles, compared to about six DC books, and while I think the last six months of Marvel Now haven't been quite as great as the first year was, I still can't complain much at all. I'm pretty damn happy with Marvel; it's probably been a couple decades at least since they've had THIS many good series going on over a year-and-a-half time period.
The voicemailer voiced displeasure about how the Marvel characters aren't recognizable anymore. I don't see that at all. Uncanny Avengers in particular has shown GREAT attention to continuity. Maybe he read an issue in which some of the villains were undead versions of heroes brought back to life or something? In that case, yeah, they're supposed to be at least somewhat out of character.
As far as complaining about Spider-Man... Whatever anyone thinks of Ock Spidey in principle, I don't think you can argue that Slott hasn't shown care and consistency within his run. Admittedly, I've only read about half the issues, but every issue I pick up, I sense quality storytelling. For what it is, it's VERY true to character: this is what Doc Ock would be like if he was Spider-Man. And all in all, it's only going to have lasted a little over a year... a year during which Marvel DID give us Peter Parker Spider-Man stories anyway (#700.1, etc). And much as I sympathize with criticism of the de-facto immaturation process that happened to Peter with Brand New Day... that was quite a long time ago now. Complaining about that in this context is almost like using "Batman R.I.P." to complain about the current state of the Bat-books. It doesn't really have that much of a bearing.
The only offensively out-of-character stuff I've noticed at Marvel Now was the Young Avengers run, in which (I agree with Jamie, and will expand upon it) several of the best young characters in comics suddenly became snarky narcissistic snot-heads. I read about three issues and was horrified. It didn't read like true-to-life young people; it read like what a 40-year-old hipster obsessed with trendiness would THINK young people must sound like. Noh-Varr, a "Zen fascist"-cum-Protector, becoming fixated on bad pop music? Kate Bishop having sex with someone without even knowing what the person's NAME is? Incredibly poor taste. Not something cool to aspire to. And out of character on almost every front.
I am really not caring for Uncanny Avengers at all. I know a lot of people who are enjoying it, but I totally agree with the caller. The voices of the characters don't sound like them at all. Rogue sounds like a whiny brat and Cap got too altruistic on Wolverine about him being a killer (as if Cap didn't know that about Wolverine already). The Apocalypse Twins storyline just dragged on and on and on, and they were two villains I lost interest in very fast. There have been a few characters that I have enjoyed reading like Havok, but overall I feel like the voice is off on the characters a lot, and yes, the title seems to be isolated from everything else. I am a few issues behind (because I have not been enjoying it), so I will read those, but if they don't bring me back in, this will be a title I'll be dropping....too much good stuff in Avengers, New Avengers, and Avengers World (and now Secret Avengers) to waste time reading a title I am not enjoying, even if it has some of my favorite characters in it. But that is just my perspective. It's awesome if someone else is enjoying it.
14-Jun-13 Man of Steel
25-Mar-16 Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice
5-Aug-16 Suicide Squad
23-Jun-17 Wonder Woman
17-Nov-17 Justice League
23-Mar-18 The Flash
27-Jul-18 Aquaman
5-Apr-19 Shazam
14-Jun-19 Justice League 2
3-Apr-20 Cyborg
19-Jun-20 Green Lantern
On another, similarly related, note, I am amazed at the just three months shy of three years of a separation between Man of Steel, the first movie in this new DC Cinematic Universe (DCCU), and BvS: Dawn of Justice. Another comparison, Iron Man and Incredible Hulk came out in May and June (just over a month apart), 2008, and then a two year wait until Iron Man 2 in May of 2010.
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