*Yet another reason the I'm not fond of the Dark Knight/Man of Steel films: their protagonists are essentially loners.
...and Spider-man, The Hulk, the first Iron Man movie, The Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Superman I-IV, Superman Returns, & the first 2 Blade movies.
M
With the exception of Iron Man, none of those are particular favorites.
And Tony Stark was no loner. He had a best friend, a bodyguard, an executive assistant as well as a constant companion in JARVIS.
They might not be particular favorites, but if you're listing The Dark Knight trilogy & MoS, you should at least include a couple of those.
Alfred, Rachel, Gordon, Fox, & Blake don't count, but Pepper, Happy, & Rhodey do? Interesting. I actually thought the TDK trilogy surrounded him with more companions then the comics normally do. He needed virtually each person to help his cause in each movie.
M
And didn't the Tumbler talk? Isn't that a former of AI?
*Yet another reason the I'm not fond of the Dark Knight/Man of Steel films: their protagonists are essentially loners.
...and Spider-man, The Hulk, the first Iron Man movie, The Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Superman I-IV, Superman Returns, & the first 2 Blade movies.
M
With the exception of Iron Man, none of those are particular favorites.
And Tony Stark was no loner. He had a best friend, a bodyguard, an executive assistant as well as a constant companion in JARVIS.
They might not be particular favorites, but if you're listing The Dark Knight trilogy & MoS, you should at least include a couple of those.
And didn't the Tumbler talk? Isn't that a former of AI?
@Matt: I'm not damning the Dark Knight films, I (repeat I) just don't like them.
Of the characters listed, only Alfred could be considered an intimate, and even with him, Bruce was always holding back.
And comparing the Tumbler to JARVIS is really pushing it.
Ultimately, the difference is there's a human warmth in Stark's interactions with his supporting cast, whereas Wayne's interactions are cold and distant.
*Yet another reason the I'm not fond of the Dark Knight/Man of Steel films: their protagonists are essentially loners.
...and Spider-man, The Hulk, the first Iron Man movie, The Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Superman I-IV, Superman Returns, & the first 2 Blade movies.
M
With the exception of Iron Man, none of those are particular favorites.
And Tony Stark was no loner. He had a best friend, a bodyguard, an executive assistant as well as a constant companion in JARVIS.
They might not be particular favorites, but if you're listing The Dark Knight trilogy & MoS, you should at least include a couple of those.
And didn't the Tumbler talk? Isn't that a former of AI?
@Matt: I'm not damning the Dark Knight films, I (repeat I) just don't like them.
Of the characters listed, only Alfred could be considered an intimate, and even with him, Bruce was always holding back.
And comparing the Tumbler to JARVIS is really pushing it.
Ultimately, the difference is there's a human warmth in Stark's interactions with his supporting cast, whereas Wayne's interactions are cold and distant.
I wasn't saying that you were damning (or even have to like) TDK trilogy, just that you were using them along with MoS as examples of virtual loners, but I thought there were other movies that could be lumped in there.
When you point out Stark, I just thought Wayne's supporting cast seemed to get either overlooked or downplayed. I'll admit Stark has more of an intimate relationship with his supporting staff, but I don't think Wayne's 'distant' relationship with his supporting cast originated in TDK trilogy. He had that in Burton's films & in the comics before that. If you're holding that against the movies, then it should be held against the comic book character itself.
To me a couple of throwaway lines in one episode does not make a season. I didn't even notice the connecting dots while I was watching the episode. Besides SHIELD being over there was nothing about the show that felt like it was incorporated in the movie.
They were not throwaway lines. They explicitly tied the series to the movie and established chronology.
I contend that your not noticing the connecting dots does not constitute a failure on the part of the show. The dots were there. I've been watching for them, and finding them, ever since I first saw the Winter Soldier trailer.
It was a throwaway line because it does not mean anything. We already know the show and the movies take place in the same Universe. Saying I gotta catch a plane isn't all that meaningful to the show.
You know what would have been meaningful is if Nick had come to Colson months ago and said I think something is going on, but I can't pin point it. Can you and your team look into a few things for me? The show never connects the dots that Hydra is involved, but they start finding things are off. Colson makes some clandestine reports updating the status of the overall mission. So when Nick Fury is attacked in DC the people in the audience who watch the show can go this is the thing that Nick was talking about. Everyone else in the audience can just carry on watching the film without worrying about knowing the back plot.
To me that is the difference between working toward a true payoff and not just another info dump moment that fakes it without earning it.
It sounds like you're wanting Captain America: The series, and not a show that has been coming close to the movies and then moving back to do their own thing and then coming back in small waves. Some of which you don't even realize were waves until weeks or even months later.
I don't think we're going to get the Captain American series anytime soon though
Sorry
The show is about SHIELD and the whole movie revolves around SHIELD. In this case it has little to do with wanting more Cap in the television show. The desire is to synch up the main plots of both entertainment vehicles so they have a greater impact for the viewer.
It is like including Howard Stark in the first Captain America. That character could have been anyone since he does not appear in the comic. The reason they made him Howard Stark is to bring more cohesion to the greater story. When Cap and Tony Stark meet in the Avengers they already have a history that the audience knows about if they payed attention.
When you point out Stark, I just thought Wayne's supporting cast seemed to get either overlooked or downplayed. I'll admit Stark has more of an intimate relationship with his supporting staff, but I don't think Wayne's 'distant' relationship with his supporting cast originated in TDK trilogy. He had that in Burton's films & in the comics before that. If you're holding that against the movies, then it should be held against the comic book character itself.
Well, the post-Frank Miller version of the comic book character at least.
It is like including Howard Stark in the first Captain America. That character could have been anyone since he does not appear in the comic. The reason they made him Howard Stark is to bring more cohesion to the greater story. When Cap and Tony Stark meet in the Avengers they already have a history that the audience knows about if they payed attention.
Kind of like how Agent Sitwell, who we've seen in MAoS and at least one DVD extra, showing up in Winter Soldier in a small but pivotal role provides more cohesion to the greater story?
The show is about SHIELD and the whole movie revolves around SHIELD. In this case it has little to do with wanting more Cap in the television show. The desire is to synch up the main plots of both entertainment vehicles so they have a greater impact for the viewer.
They do synch up!
Completely!
Plus, having spent most of a year following around SHIELD agents and "humanizing" the agency, it makes the schism that erupts in the movie that much more dramatic than it would have been were it just another semi-secret agency.
Sitwell name dropping on the roof: Yeah, he said Stephen Strange and I lost my effing mind. But he also said "A high school valedictorian in Iowa" (at least I think it was Iowa). That struck me as too specific to be random, and immediately I started wondering who that would be.
Amadeus Cho, maybe?
My first instinct was Reed Richards (movie rights be damned!). But further thought leads me to believe this might be some reference to the upcoming Ant-Man movie. Maybe Scott Lang? I believe Hank Pym is old man Michael Douglas by the time Ant-man hits the big screen.
I forgot to mention this in my giant post but in Sitwell's blurb at the rooftop he also mentions a "TV anchor in Cairo" in addition to the Valedictorian in Iowa City and Stephen Strange
When you point out Stark, I just thought Wayne's supporting cast seemed to get either overlooked or downplayed. I'll admit Stark has more of an intimate relationship with his supporting staff, but I don't think Wayne's 'distant' relationship with his supporting cast originated in TDK trilogy. He had that in Burton's films & in the comics before that. If you're holding that against the movies, then it should be held against the comic book character itself.
Well, the post-Frank Miller version of the comic book character at least.
Which is exactly what the TDK trilogy was based upon. SO, your issue isn't so much the trilogy as much as the source material.
And didn't Rhodey get pissed at Stark after it was revealed Tony didn't really die? Wasn't that years after Stark became a hobo? I believe Pepper & Happy were out of the picture then also. That sounds pretty distancing...just a thought.
When you point out Stark, I just thought Wayne's supporting cast seemed to get either overlooked or downplayed. I'll admit Stark has more of an intimate relationship with his supporting staff, but I don't think Wayne's 'distant' relationship with his supporting cast originated in TDK trilogy. He had that in Burton's films & in the comics before that. If you're holding that against the movies, then it should be held against the comic book character itself.
Well, the post-Frank Miller version of the comic book character at least.
Which is exactly what the TDK trilogy was based upon. SO, your issue isn't so much the trilogy as much as the source material.
And didn't Rhodey get pissed at Stark after it was revealed Tony didn't really die? Wasn't that years after Stark became a hobo? I believe Pepper & Happy were out of the picture then also. That sounds pretty distancing...just a thought.
;)
M
Thou art a most accomplished picker of nits, good sir!
(One might say one could not pick nits if the given examples were not lousy, eh?)
When you point out Stark, I just thought Wayne's supporting cast seemed to get either overlooked or downplayed. I'll admit Stark has more of an intimate relationship with his supporting staff, but I don't think Wayne's 'distant' relationship with his supporting cast originated in TDK trilogy. He had that in Burton's films & in the comics before that. If you're holding that against the movies, then it should be held against the comic book character itself.
Well, the post-Frank Miller version of the comic book character at least.
Which is exactly what the TDK trilogy was based upon. SO, your issue isn't so much the trilogy as much as the source material.
And didn't Rhodey get pissed at Stark after it was revealed Tony didn't really die? Wasn't that years after Stark became a hobo? I believe Pepper & Happy were out of the picture then also. That sounds pretty distancing...just a thought.
;)
M
Thou art a most accomplished picker of nits, good sir!
(One might say one could not pick nits if the given examples were not lousy, eh?)
Haha...aren't you glad you're not my wife? After all these years with me, she's become a saint; and just wait until my daughter learns the skill!
Yeah, that was a pretty rad movie, like a Bond film with powers, which is pretty much exactly what a post-WW2 Cap movie should be like (and a WW2 Cap movie should be like The Dirty Dozen or When Eagles Dare but with powers, which is also what we got, thankfully!).
I saw it Sunday and really enjoyed it. Even though I prefer the red, white and blue, I thought the "Super Soldier" uniform looked better than the other two. As for the shield, I do not think he has two. It is just his regular shield with a new paint scheme. While the shield is bulletproof, the paint is not, though it is probably a lot more durable than regular paint. I do like how he appears to use a magnet to attach it to his back instead of the hand straps like in the comics. I admit when Evans was first announced to play Cap, I had my doubts but I think he is perfect for the role. I loved seeing Cap as a badass with more hand-to-hand fight scenes than the first film.
Really liked the take on Sam Wilson and, yes, I wish his suit had been red and white. Not necessarily spandex, but the color scheme on a more tactical suit. I thought Scarlett Johansson looked much better in this film than she did Avengers. I disliked her hairstyle in that one and her uniform made her look chunky. While I prefer her curly locks from IM2 to the straight hair in this film, she was smoking hot in her new uniform. The chick who played Agent 13 was also very cute. I thought the way they used Zola was ... interesting.
To be honest, I think subtitling this movie "The Winter Soldier" is a little off. Yes, he makes an appearance and has some nice action scenes, but he really isn't the central focus of the movie. I found it ironic that Natasha tells Steve that the Winter Soldier is a "ghost" when he seems to be very public. I mean, nobody is gonna notice a guy with a mask and a metal arm shooting guns in the middle of the street? Still, I think Sebastian Stan did a good job and definitely looked the part. Speaking of Stan, his cameo at the end is one of my favorites. I can't say either of the end tags impressed me much and I agree that the "gifted," as they a called on MAOS, and "Miracles," as they are called in this movie, should be called "Marvels" instead,
This movie is probably tied with Avengers as my favorite Marvel movie. About the only bad thing about my experience was having a kid behind me who talked almost through the entire thing, asking his parents questions. I almost turned around and said, "Really?" when the kid said, "It's Thor," when we saw Bucky without the mask.
The show is about SHIELD and the whole movie revolves around SHIELD. In this case it has little to do with wanting more Cap in the television show. The desire is to synch up the main plots of both entertainment vehicles so they have a greater impact for the viewer.
They do synch up!
Completely!
Plus, having spent most of a year following around SHIELD agents and "humanizing" the agency, it makes the schism that erupts in the movie that much more dramatic than it would have been were it just another semi-secret agency.
MAoS makes Winter Soldier a better movie.
Winter Soldier makes MAoS a better show.
Yay team Marvel!
We will have to agree to disagree because we are not seeing the same show. Agent of SHIELD is good, but for me this movie and the show feel like two different things with the only connection being surface stuff only. Same name, some of the same characters, but sharing very little of the emotional resonance. If you are OK with the connections being surface only that is fine, but I was hoping for something different especially after watching the movie.
The show is about SHIELD and the whole movie revolves around SHIELD. In this case it has little to do with wanting more Cap in the television show. The desire is to synch up the main plots of both entertainment vehicles so they have a greater impact for the viewer.
They do synch up!
Completely!
Plus, having spent most of a year following around SHIELD agents and "humanizing" the agency, it makes the schism that erupts in the movie that much more dramatic than it would have been were it just another semi-secret agency.
MAoS makes Winter Soldier a better movie.
Winter Soldier makes MAoS a better show.
Yay team Marvel!
We will have to agree to disagree because we are not seeing the same show. Agent of SHIELD is good, but for me this movie and the show feel like two different things with the only connection being surface stuff only. Same name, some of the same characters, but sharing very little of the emotional resonance. If you are OK with the connections being surface only that is fine, but I was hoping for something different especially after watching the movie.
Having watched the show it still does not address my previous issue which is I wanted the show to be more connected before the movie came out. It is nice they are using the movie as a jumping off point afterward, but then again it is not like the movie gives the show much of a choice.
Went to see it again tonight. About half the audience left when the credits started and then nearly all the rest left after the mid credits scene. There were only two other people left to watch the last one.
Our ticket taker even told everyone going through to "wait for the two after credit scenes". Of course half the theatre still left and of course ended up clogging the isles and exits standing around to watch. :-S
Went to see it again tonight. About half the audience left when the credits started and then nearly all the rest left after the mid credits scene. There were only two other people left to watch the last one.
Comments
Of the characters listed, only Alfred could be considered an intimate, and even with him, Bruce was always holding back.
And comparing the Tumbler to JARVIS is really pushing it.
Ultimately, the difference is there's a human warmth in Stark's interactions with his supporting cast, whereas Wayne's interactions are cold and distant.
When you point out Stark, I just thought Wayne's supporting cast seemed to get either overlooked or downplayed. I'll admit Stark has more of an intimate relationship with his supporting staff, but I don't think Wayne's 'distant' relationship with his supporting cast originated in TDK trilogy. He had that in Burton's films & in the comics before that. If you're holding that against the movies, then it should be held against the comic book character itself.
The Tumbler/JARVIS bit was just for a chuckle.
M
It is like including Howard Stark in the first Captain America. That character could have been anyone since he does not appear in the comic. The reason they made him Howard Stark is to bring more cohesion to the greater story. When Cap and Tony Stark meet in the Avengers they already have a history that the audience knows about if they payed attention.
Completely!
Plus, having spent most of a year following around SHIELD agents and "humanizing" the agency, it makes the schism that erupts in the movie that much more dramatic than it would have been were it just another semi-secret agency.
MAoS makes Winter Soldier a better movie.
Winter Soldier makes MAoS a better show.
Yay team Marvel!
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/news/?a=97626
Or could be that the movies get Stephen Strange and Coulson and crew get to go to Iowa. That probably doesn't sitwell with some people though.
I didn't realize I did it till after I did it.
And didn't Rhodey get pissed at Stark after it was revealed Tony didn't really die? Wasn't that years after Stark became a hobo? I believe Pepper & Happy were out of the picture then also. That sounds pretty distancing...just a thought.
;)
M
Thou art a most accomplished picker of nits, good sir!
(One might say one could not pick nits if the given examples were not lousy, eh?)
M
Can't wait to see it again.
Proper performer prominence!
Really liked the take on Sam Wilson and, yes, I wish his suit had been red and white. Not necessarily spandex, but the color scheme on a more tactical suit. I thought Scarlett Johansson looked much better in this film than she did Avengers. I disliked her hairstyle in that one and her uniform made her look chunky. While I prefer her curly locks from IM2 to the straight hair in this film, she was smoking hot in her new uniform. The chick who played Agent 13 was also very cute. I thought the way they used Zola was ... interesting.
To be honest, I think subtitling this movie "The Winter Soldier" is a little off. Yes, he makes an appearance and has some nice action scenes, but he really isn't the central focus of the movie. I found it ironic that Natasha tells Steve that the Winter Soldier is a "ghost" when he seems to be very public. I mean, nobody is gonna notice a guy with a mask and a metal arm shooting guns in the middle of the street? Still, I think Sebastian Stan did a good job and definitely looked the part. Speaking of Stan, his cameo at the end is one of my favorites. I can't say either of the end tags impressed me much and I agree that the "gifted," as they a called on MAOS, and "Miracles," as they are called in this movie, should be called "Marvels" instead,
This movie is probably tied with Avengers as my favorite Marvel movie. About the only bad thing about my experience was having a kid behind me who talked almost through the entire thing, asking his parents questions. I almost turned around and said, "Really?" when the kid said, "It's Thor," when we saw Bucky without the mask.
A ton left right before the first scene!