I would love to see Morrison's take on Peacemaker, Cap. Atom and the Question. I've only read the DC versions, and those comics were early Post-Crisis DC. I think Morrison could create a very interesting Earth-C(harlton).
Second -- the point of the end, to my mind, is that it's so fragile that it cannot possibly last, and things will be far, far worse very soon. Especially with Rorshach's journal just sitting there, waiting to tell the world the truth...
I have my hopes up that he can make it his own spin on those Charlton characters, rather than making it about the way Moore and Gibbons adapted those characters, and therefore, again, how he doesn't like Watchmen (as I feel he has said his piece on that). But, we'll see.
I am much more interested in what he thinks about those characters, rather than what he thinks about what other people thought.
It's going to be about Watchmen one way or another. Either in form or content. It's inescapable, the feud between No-Beard and All-Beard must continue.
At least Quitely's had pages for this done since at least 2012, so it should be on time :)
I have my hopes up that he can make it his own spin on those Charlton characters, rather than making it about the way Moore and Gibbons adapted those characters, and therefore, again, how he doesn't like Watchmen (as I feel he has said his piece on that). But, we'll see.
I am much more interested in what he thinks about those characters, rather than what he thinks about what other people thought.
It's going to be about Watchmen one way or another. Either in form or content. It's inescapable, the feud between No-Beard and All-Beard must continue.
At least Quitely's had pages for this done since at least 2012, so it should be on time :)
Ugh.
Well, I guess this reminds me why I tend to prefer reading the work and skipping the interviews. Well, here's hoping that, even if the intent in partly fueled by comment or even mockery, that the work itself still turns out to be good.
I seriously had no idea Grant Morrison had another series coming out this week - Annihilator. The first time I became aware of it was on Tuesday when I made my list of things to buy this week. It's also drawn by Frazer Irving so that's a double win. \:D/
Why are we talking about Moore? He hasn't produced a relevant comic in what, 5 years at least? At least Morrison still regularly writes. And not exclusively on esoteric projects that are only distributed in England.
Why are we talking about Moore? He hasn't produced a relevant comic in what, 5 years at least? At least Morrison still regularly writes. And not exclusively on esoteric projects that are only distributed in England.
Because the shadow of Mordru will always loom over GMo's career, much as The Beatles will always loom over The Rolling Stones. The artist that starts a movement (or a British Invasion) always seems to set a standard against which all their successors will be measured.*
*(Unless you're Matt, of course, in which case context and history are of no consequence. :P )**
**For those who might read this in a vacuum, the preceding teasing remark was made with great fondness and amusement, as indicated by the tongue-sticking-out emoticon. No hominems were being added here.***
***Apropos of nothing, there's a brilliant pun to be made involving "add homonym", but I can't come up with it right now. Hivemind engage!
Why are we talking about Moore? He hasn't produced a relevant comic in what, 5 years at least? At least Morrison still regularly writes. And not exclusively on esoteric projects that are only distributed in England.
Why are we talking about Moore in the context of a Morrison comic? Well, maybe ask Morrison. He is the one who seems to never tire of running down Moore, and his old work.
Morrison, when he was starting out and trying to make a name for himself, grabbed attention in his early years by talking down Moore-- which is fine, he has a right to discuss whatever work he wants to. But of the two of them, Morrison has done a lot more to try to keep that conflict going, for his own self-promotional agenda. (And I say that as a very devoted fan of his output-- don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is a problem I have with him that keeps me from enjoying his work, I even read and mostly enjoyed Supergods. . . but I feel like the more he goes on about Moore, the more I feel he needs to just get over it). He devoted a section of his 2011 book to trying to talk down Watchmen, and Moore. It seems an upcoming issue of Multiversity seems to be also about Watchmen and Moore.
So if Morrison himself wants to stop being compared to, and spoken of in the same breath as Moore. . . he is not doing a very good job of helping that happen.
Personally, as the reader? I've got attention and interest for them both. Hell, I wish I was reading both of them every month. I have no dog in whatever fight might be between them, and these days I tend to skip most interviews with either of them. Though I am always game for their work.
And, to fact check for a moment, Moore has produced comics in the last five years, that are not esoteric (unless you define that to mean "not superheroes" or "not Big 2"), and almost all from American publishers (Avatar and Top Shelf).
Those LOEG Century books and the ongoing Nemo trilogy, all with Kevin O'Neill (also someone I wish I could read every month) have been excellent, top quality books. I wish they were longer, but I'll take them.
Necronomicon with Burrows was a lesser work, but still creepy and memorable. Not to mention that- thanks to the clearing up of legal troubles- Moore's work on Miracleman is finally back in print, and expensive reprints of those singles are outselling a lot of the new work on the shelves (not to mention the collected edition sales) for work that is 30 years old.
And even if he stopped making comics 10 or 15 years ago, his body of work- and therefore he as the living author of those works- would be relevant to discuss. Most authors would probably be happy to have something with the exposure (and sales) of a Watchmen, V for Vendetta or The Killing Joke. Not to mention all three and other great works like From Hell, Swamp Thing, and LOEG besides.
The Guy Fawkes mask designed by David Lloyd for the V for Vendetta comic he did with Moore almost 30 years ago is a go-to bit of activist and protester wear. *That* is why we still talk about Moore no matter how much he has produced lately. Because he has co-authored some comics classics. And I use that word without apology or hesitation.
Opinions may vary and what you enjoy, or who you enjoy still hearing from. But the relevance of Alan Moore to comics is actually not a matter of opinion. At this point it is settled history.
And, let’s face it, the ending of Watchmen is pretty bad. ^_^
:-O
Huh?
How so?
Do elaborate.
The entire section lifted from an old episode of "The Outer Limits" At the time it seemed like a cheat, and now it seems MORE like a cheat. It doesn't fit the complexity of the story, presumes that all of the tension that is building through the story can be disarmed and world peace achieved by one city being destroyed by a random act of unknown stuff (or so the world thinks) and has never worked for me (and many others).
It was too much hand waving to fit the complex story we were given.
It's an unpopular opinion to voice, to be sure, but I agree with you 100%. I think a lot of other Watchmen fans do, too, but won't admit it for fear of being critical of a "masterpiece". I actually much preferred the ending of the movie.
I remember reading it for the first time, and when I turned that page and saw the (spoilers) squid thing, my reaction was "Huh?"... I had the same expression that Ralphie did when his decoded message from Little Orphan Annie was to "drink more ovaltine". :-O
WIth the caveat that it might have partly been how young I was when first read Watchemn (11 or so) but I never questioned the ending when I first read it. And re-reading it when I was older, and maybe more cynical, I find I still like the ending FOR how preposterous it is. I like that, after consuming and studying all that media and culture, what Ozymandius believes will unite people is an unexpected, somewhat ridiculous and isolated surprise. To me, that mix of fear mongering and spectacle to radicalize people and change opinions rings true. And, as the years have gone on, has only rung MORE true to me.
And, remember, I don't think we are meant to believe that Ozymandius, smart as he is, has won the day forever. Remember that last panel. Conspiracies work until the don't work.
I respect that the ending didn't work for some, or even many. But it works for me.
Enjoyed Society of Superheroes a lot. A pulp take on JSA that doesn't really do anything you've not seen before, both in its text and subtext, but does it very efficiently.
Though having quite so many concepts that modern readers will associate with Geoff Johns does make you wonder if its subtext is more pinpoint than broad.
Still waiting on his Wonder Woman: The Trial of Diana Prince bondage-infused graphic novel.
I may look at Multiversity when it hits the trades, but I've personally found a lot of GM's work I've sampled to be confused or strangely convoluted. He seems much better at building things up than reaching satisfying conclusions. I've also begun to consider him a bit of a kook after his infamous Invisibles wank-a-thon stunt to magically increase comic sales*.
I have a confession to make. You know I am generally the first in line to bash Morrison for a)being weird for the sake of weird and b) for breaking out high concept ideas and having no follow-through to wrap things up. I like Morrison and Waid working together becasue I feel like Waid can dot the I's and cross the T's while Morrison moves on the the next big thing.
So, I've picked up the first 2 issues of Multiversity. My confession is...I enjoyed the hell out of them both.
Still waiting on his Wonder Woman: The Trial of Diana Prince bondage-infused graphic novel.
I may look at Multiversity when it hits the trades, but I've personally found a lot of GM's work I've sampled to be confused or strangely convoluted. He seems much better at building things up than reaching satisfying conclusions. I've also begun to consider him a bit of a kook after his infamous Invisibles wank-a-thon stunt to magically increase comic sales*.
(* sales did increase)
It was a bit more complex than that, and he was using a form of modern "magick" called Chaos Magick...which was, in many ways, at the heart of a lot of his work in the late 90's and early 2000's. It's a bunch of interesting ideas and philosophy that I read up and knew about, but in the end, I don't believe in anything supernatural, so...
But it also has a lot to do with his way of telling a story in the beginning, then telling it again over a series, and then echoing those themes and ideas throughout.
As for me, I feel like the only person int he world who doesn't feel his work is confusing. But a lot of people do, so it must just be me.
This issue was much more straightforward than Multiversity #1. I wonder if, like Seven Soldiers, the framing issues (perhaps the first and last) will be the trippiest, and the rest will be just really strong dives into Elseworlds (for example, this one was a sort of 'What if the DCU were a pulp?). We'll see. But I could happily read DC books as strong as this every month if that were possible.
The Multiversity prologue issue was great, but I was particularly pumped for the Society of Super Heroes issue, given they were promoting it as a pulp style book. Morrison said these one-shots could possibly be him just getting the ball rolling on these particular Earths, and others may feel free to continue telling stories there. I would buy a Earth-20 book in a heartbeat.
I went over my thoughts about whether or not the book delivered on the pulp, on my podcast/videoblog, but I really think they did a good job here.
I would have liked to have seen more pulp archetypes (or characters more easily transitioned into the pulp mold) included, such as The Crimson Avenger, Golden Age Sandman, Midnight, and even Catman. I thought they did a good job though given the limitations they were under from a perspective of symmetry. Each good guy had to have a bad guy who was similar to them.
The Just was my least favorite so far. I feel like this one, as it feels like it was written to be a satire of the worst excesses of 90s comics combined with the worst excesses of current navel gazing social media and celebrity culture. Unlike the first two issues, which felt like they were created with the excitement of "this is stuff I LOVE!" this was written to slosh around in things that were to be judged and hated. And I agree with @Brack that the results are depressing. The first two issues gave me characters and Earths (in combination with creative teams) I wished I could read every month. This one i was glad to finish and get away from.
I hope more of the issues ahead are explorations of the places that Morrison and the different artists WANT to be, rather than as commentary on how comics and superheroes shouldn't be.
The Just reminds me of when I watch an actor (usually a younger or less experienced one) play a character that you know they themselves judge and hate. Their performance becomes their commentary on a kind of person, rather than an embodied, fully formed, and honest performance of an individual. That is what this issue reminded me of. That kind of judgmental, outside of it, at-arms-length performance.
This issue makes me even more wary of what he is going to do with the Charlton heroes Earth, as I am guessing that will be written more like this issue than the Society issue. But, we'll see.
I don't think it's a satire of the excesses of 90s comics. If anything it felt like a tribute to all the 90s and 00s legacy characters who were swept away with the New 52 relaunch. That's why it was depressing, their inability to fulfil their potential as superheroes due to Superman's robots is a metaphor for their potential as characters being cut short by the New 52 relaunch.
And that's not even getting into the idea that superhero comics are parasites that corrupt all other superhero comics they come into contact with.
As depressing as it was, I liked the comic. It felt like Morrison doing a riff on Kingdom Come and even more its sequel, The Kingdom. Which I now realise had the same release format as Multiversity, a two part story bookending a series of one shots.
Comments
Before that he said "what if Watchmen had been conceived now, in the contemporary political landscape and with the Charlton characters themselves, rather than analogues"
It's going to be about Watchmen one way or another. Either in form or content. It's inescapable, the feud between No-Beard and All-Beard must continue.
At least Quitely's had pages for this done since at least 2012, so it should be on time :)
Well, I guess this reminds me why I tend to prefer reading the work and skipping the interviews. Well, here's hoping that, even if the intent in partly fueled by comment or even mockery, that the work itself still turns out to be good.
*(Unless you're Matt, of course, in which case context and history are of no consequence. :P )**
**For those who might read this in a vacuum, the preceding teasing remark was made with great fondness and amusement, as indicated by the tongue-sticking-out emoticon. No hominems were being added here.***
***Apropos of nothing, there's a brilliant pun to be made involving "add homonym", but I can't come up with it right now. Hivemind engage!
Morrison, when he was starting out and trying to make a name for himself, grabbed attention in his early years by talking down Moore-- which is fine, he has a right to discuss whatever work he wants to. But of the two of them, Morrison has done a lot more to try to keep that conflict going, for his own self-promotional agenda. (And I say that as a very devoted fan of his output-- don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is a problem I have with him that keeps me from enjoying his work, I even read and mostly enjoyed Supergods. . . but I feel like the more he goes on about Moore, the more I feel he needs to just get over it). He devoted a section of his 2011 book to trying to talk down Watchmen, and Moore. It seems an upcoming issue of Multiversity seems to be also about Watchmen and Moore.
So if Morrison himself wants to stop being compared to, and spoken of in the same breath as Moore. . . he is not doing a very good job of helping that happen.
Personally, as the reader? I've got attention and interest for them both. Hell, I wish I was reading both of them every month. I have no dog in whatever fight might be between them, and these days I tend to skip most interviews with either of them. Though I am always game for their work.
And, to fact check for a moment, Moore has produced comics in the last five years, that are not esoteric (unless you define that to mean "not superheroes" or "not Big 2"), and almost all from American publishers (Avatar and Top Shelf).
Those LOEG Century books and the ongoing Nemo trilogy, all with Kevin O'Neill (also someone I wish I could read every month) have been excellent, top quality books. I wish they were longer, but I'll take them.
Necronomicon with Burrows was a lesser work, but still creepy and memorable. Not to mention that- thanks to the clearing up of legal troubles- Moore's work on Miracleman is finally back in print, and expensive reprints of those singles are outselling a lot of the new work on the shelves (not to mention the collected edition sales) for work that is 30 years old.
And even if he stopped making comics 10 or 15 years ago, his body of work- and therefore he as the living author of those works- would be relevant to discuss. Most authors would probably be happy to have something with the exposure (and sales) of a Watchmen, V for Vendetta or The Killing Joke. Not to mention all three and other great works like From Hell, Swamp Thing, and LOEG besides.
The Guy Fawkes mask designed by David Lloyd for the V for Vendetta comic he did with Moore almost 30 years ago is a go-to bit of activist and protester wear. *That* is why we still talk about Moore no matter how much he has produced lately. Because he has co-authored some comics classics. And I use that word without apology or hesitation.
Opinions may vary and what you enjoy, or who you enjoy still hearing from. But the relevance of Alan Moore to comics is actually not a matter of opinion. At this point it is settled history.
I remember reading it for the first time, and when I turned that page and saw the (spoilers) squid thing, my reaction was "Huh?"... I had the same expression that Ralphie did when his decoded message from Little Orphan Annie was to "drink more ovaltine".
:-O
And, remember, I don't think we are meant to believe that Ozymandius, smart as he is, has won the day forever. Remember that last panel. Conspiracies work until the don't work.
I respect that the ending didn't work for some, or even many. But it works for me.
Though having quite so many concepts that modern readers will associate with Geoff Johns does make you wonder if its subtext is more pinpoint than broad.
I may look at Multiversity when it hits the trades, but I've personally found a lot of GM's work I've sampled to be confused or strangely convoluted. He seems much better at building things up than reaching satisfying conclusions. I've also begun to consider him a bit of a kook after his infamous Invisibles wank-a-thon stunt to magically increase comic sales*.
(* sales did increase)
So, I've picked up the first 2 issues of Multiversity. My confession is...I enjoyed the hell out of them both.
But it also has a lot to do with his way of telling a story in the beginning, then telling it again over a series, and then echoing those themes and ideas throughout.
As for me, I feel like the only person int he world who doesn't feel his work is confusing. But a lot of people do, so it must just be me.
Wow! That was some good comics.
This issue was much more straightforward than Multiversity #1. I wonder if, like Seven Soldiers, the framing issues (perhaps the first and last) will be the trippiest, and the rest will be just really strong dives into Elseworlds (for example, this one was a sort of 'What if the DCU were a pulp?). We'll see. But I could happily read DC books as strong as this every month if that were possible.
I went over my thoughts about whether or not the book delivered on the pulp, on my podcast/videoblog, but I really think they did a good job here.
I would have liked to have seen more pulp archetypes (or characters more easily transitioned into the pulp mold) included, such as The Crimson Avenger, Golden Age Sandman, Midnight, and even Catman. I thought they did a good job though given the limitations they were under from a perspective of symmetry. Each good guy had to have a bad guy who was similar to them.
I hope more of the issues ahead are explorations of the places that Morrison and the different artists WANT to be, rather than as commentary on how comics and superheroes shouldn't be.
The Just reminds me of when I watch an actor (usually a younger or less experienced one) play a character that you know they themselves judge and hate. Their performance becomes their commentary on a kind of person, rather than an embodied, fully formed, and honest performance of an individual. That is what this issue reminded me of. That kind of judgmental, outside of it, at-arms-length performance.
This issue makes me even more wary of what he is going to do with the Charlton heroes Earth, as I am guessing that will be written more like this issue than the Society issue. But, we'll see.
And that's not even getting into the idea that superhero comics are parasites that corrupt all other superhero comics they come into contact with.
As depressing as it was, I liked the comic. It felt like Morrison doing a riff on Kingdom Come and even more its sequel, The Kingdom. Which I now realise had the same release format as Multiversity, a two part story bookending a series of one shots.