Why are people here listing Nolan's DK trilogy as one movie?
The same reason I enjoy Star Wars as a great movie, but prefer Empire Strikes Back as my favorite chapter in the entire Star Wars saga.
M.
But those Star Wars movies are not one big movie and I don't understand your answer. You could call the original Lord of the Rings Trilogy one movie. They were filmed together and the end was known at the outset. You could call Kill Bill Vol 1 and 2 one movie. You could even call the Matrix 2 and 3 one movie. The Dark Knight Trilogy, while great, was not plotted together and Rises certainly wasn't conceived at the same time as Begins and therefore, to me, cannot be called one movie.
Star Wars is the name of the saga.
TDK trilogy has a beginning, middle, & end to the story. You don't have to see it as 1 story, but its how I perceive it.
M
And I like the James Bond Saga. It has a few chapters I don't think are so great, and the casting isn't consistent throughout, but the last chapter was superb :)
Why are people here listing Nolan's DK trilogy as one movie?
The same reason I enjoy Star Wars as a great movie, but prefer Empire Strikes Back as my favorite chapter in the entire Star Wars saga.
M.
But those Star Wars movies are not one big movie and I don't understand your answer. You could call the original Lord of the Rings Trilogy one movie. They were filmed together and the end was known at the outset. You could call Kill Bill Vol 1 and 2 one movie. You could even call the Matrix 2 and 3 one movie. The Dark Knight Trilogy, while great, was not plotted together and Rises certainly wasn't conceived at the same time as Begins and therefore, to me, cannot be called one movie.
Star Wars is the name of the saga.
TDK trilogy has a beginning, middle, & end to the story. You don't have to see it as 1 story, but its how I perceive it.
M
And I like the James Bond Saga. It has a few chapters I don't think are so great, and the casting isn't consistent throughout, but the last chapter was superb :)
That's interesting you see it as a saga. I've always seen it more as a series of adventures for one character, not one long story. There's never really been a beginning & end to the whole saga. In fact, there's nothing indicating its a whole story; no real continuity throughout the whole series of movies thus far.
It's just me, but I've never considered it a saga series of movies. Now the Godfather, that's a different conversation...
When people don't agree with you, they can easily nitpick.
M
I actually think the Dark Knight is my #1 so I do agree. Seems like X Men 2 gets a lot of love but I think First Class is better. The period, action, setting it within the shadow of nuclear escalation and actually mentioning "we are the children of the atom". Love that.
I think I'll agree with many of the lists in the episode (only about half way through listening), but I have a feeling many of the films are going to be from the big two--which they should be, because they're great films, but I'm going to go a little more outside the "mainstream."
(No particular order) Hellboy Hellboy II Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Daredevil (Directors Cut) Dick Tracy
So glad you mentioned Dick Tracy. Love that movie. Not sure if it was mentioned on the episode, I haven't listened yet
That said, Screen Crush ranks their top 30 Marvel superhero movies. Pretty good list and a few no one mentioned... here
I enjoy the X-Men movies, I've just never considered them a 'saga'. They never had the same feel of a contained story arc like Lord of the Rings, the first 3 Aliens (the 4th changed all that), Godfather, Star Wars, or TDK trilogy.
I've heard Twilight, Harry Potter, & Hunger Games are good examples of sagas; though I've neither read the books or seen the movies.
The list lost me somewhat along the way, but completely lost me when Punisher:War Zone is #10. I think there's a reason why some of these movies weren't mentioned on our lists.
I can't really come up with a top 5 list, but here are my basic thoughts:
Avengers is the best pure "comic book movie", but I found The Dark Knight and to some extent The Dark Knight Rises to be better, more meaningful movies. So Avengers is a better "comic book movie", but TDK is a better movie. If that makes any sense.
I know the usual line of critical thinking around fans who know a thing or two is to say that Batman Begins is actually the best Nolan Batman film. Admittedly, I've seen that first installment fewer times than I've seen TDK or TDKR, and I haven't seen BB in several years now . . . but as good as BB was, I think the later movies said more about the human condition or civilization or cities and politics or whatever. Maybe that sounds highfalutin to some, but I think that what the Joker and then Bane do in those movies actually, well, SAYS something. I think there's a philosophical profundity that runs through those later installments. It's not overdone, but it is there, and it's quite complicated and even-handed, especially when you work in how Batman and Gordon basically lie to the population regarding Dent, in order to give the city a totally false hero, because they think urban civilization needs hope, even if the hope is a lie. Those movies aren't perfect -- in particular, I think Murd is right when he points to Gordon's monologue at the end of TDK as being hammy or whatever, and I think that Bale's Batman growl always threatens to break the suspension of disbelief (though I LOVED Tom Hardy's creepy Bane voice!) -- but overall I think the positive far outweighs the negative, and those two movies reach a level of complexity, depth and meaning that no other comic book movie has been able to touch.
That said, Avengers is just so perfect for what it is that I'd almost certainly have to rank it higher than TDKR and it would challenge TDK as well. For me it's TDK's dark flawed profundity vs Avengers' somewhat superficial optimistic perfection. Avengers was the most fun I've ever had going to the movies, and there isn't a single thing I can say about that movie that wasn't well-executed. For what it was trying to do, it succeeded on all levels.
The only other comic movies that I would even think to mention would be some of the X-Men movies. I just saw DOFP and loved it. But First Class was probably more fun and I enjoyed its wit a bit more. Not that DOFP wasn't clever in its own right. And the old stalwart, X2, still holds up as the best *straight-forward* X-Men movie. So... I can't choose between them. I think I probably like DOFP and First Class more than X2, but that's probably because I haven't seen X2 in a few years now.
Oh, one last thing about the X-Men movies: I didn't think X-Men 3 was that bad! Certainly the worst of the first three movies, but I still had a good time with it! Was it underwhelming based on some of the source material? Yes. Was I a bit letdown? YES. But I was never terribly upset by it the way other people were. It's always struck me as funny the same way the reaction to Spider-Man 3 did, because I don't think these were HORRIBLE movies. Definitely the worst of their respective trilogies, but not BAD.
I can't really say much else that hasn't already been mentioned. Off-beat stuff like GhostWorld and History of Violence would get honorable mentions from me. Personally, I wouldn't call Incredibles or Dr. Strangelove comic book movies, because they're not literally based on comics. I like Unbreakable; maybe I'd be inclined to include that as a comic book movie because it is literally ABOUT comics.
I haven't seen either Cap movie, but will probably see them in the near future. For whatever reason I just have very little interest in them, but I've now seen that image of the poster with the Black Widow's curvy body on it about ten thousand times, and that has planted a seed in me to watch the movie eventually.
I've never seen ANY of the Reeves Superman movies all the way through. Never. Ever! I've seen a ton of clips over the years and have probably seen almost all the footage at one point or another, but I've never sat down to watch any of them all the way through. They've always looked "okay" to me, especially the first two, but I have just never been into them enough. I'm sure the first two are quite good, but I know there's not a chance they'd crack my top five.
So, I guess maybe I can make a top 5, and my top spot between TDK and Avengers would have to go to...
No, screw it. The "Crumb" documentary is the best comic book movie. It counts.
The list lost me somewhat along the way, but completely lost me when Punisher:War Zone is #10. I think there's a reason why some of these movies weren't mentioned on our lists.
M
Whaa?! No love for Punisher War Zone? j/k
Sidebar: Before there was Raimi's Spider-Man and Singer's X-Men, I was a fanboy for the Crow and thought it ranked pretty high on the comic book movie list.
The list lost me somewhat along the way, but completely lost me when Punisher:War Zone is #10. I think there's a reason why some of these movies weren't mentioned on our lists.
M
Whaa?! No love for Punisher War Zone? j/k
Sidebar: Before there was Raimi's Spider-Man and Singer's X-Men, I was a fanboy for the Crow and thought it ranked pretty high on the comic book movie list.
I like both of these. However, I don't think The Crow has aged as well as other movies.
Well, just finished listening. I have don't have love for the "saga" idea either, but since there were no rules spelled out, of course people can do what they want. To me, if LOTR was a comic movie, filmed continuously, as one long story from a comic instead of a series of novels, I just might accept that, but not the new Batman movies. Well, perhaps if there really were rules to ranking our top 5 comic movies, if you liked all the Batman movies you could just put all of them in your top 5. Likewise , applying the rules in MY head, I just can't justify putting The Incredibles, Doctor Strangelove, or something like Hancock on my list. One reason in particular for the Incredibles is that I don't equal the them to the Fantastic Four. I'd equate them more to the First Family in the Astro City Comics and even then, it's not an exact comparison. The Fantastic Four is a super-hero group that operates like a family, but in the Lee/Kirby era, there weren't any "kids" in the group. So, to me, it wasn't a Fantastic Four movie. I'd say it was a movie perhaps inspired by the Fantastic Four. They just switched a few of the power sets around, added three kids (got rid of the old friend and bratty little brother who lived with them) and "alakazam!": The Incredibles. Still, it was a great movie. Anyway, here's my Top 5 Comic Movies! (I like my movies to be fun! Not so serious! Heh-heh...) 1. Marvel's Avengers (just a wonderful enactment of my childhood fantasies wondering what it would like for Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Cap, and the others to REALLY form a team and kick some butt!) 2. X-2 (I like calling it that, though I know Murd disagrees). Just that opening scene in the Oval Office took comic book film making to new heights. 3. Mystery Men: I forgot who it was that listed this, but I totally agree with them! This is one of those movies that I watch when I'm bored and/or in need of an escape or a laugh. 4. Batman Begins (I liked this one mostly because it started off the franchise and it seemed more "realistic" than the Michael Keaton one, though for me, on this list they are almost interchangeable). 5. Superman 1 (Christopher Reeve): I re-watch this on occasion and am just amazed at how much I still like it, even the cheesy (Can You Read My Mind and make the earth spin backwards) parts. I liked how each actor played the roles pretty much how I envisioned in the comics plus added their own little nuances. I also loved Otis and Miss Tessmacher (sic?). Oh, that Valerie Perrine! I remember getting a Playboy mag with her in it around that time also....
Oh, I forgot alternates: Kick Ass 1 (especially for Hit Girl), Blade 1, and Catwoman! (Nah, just kidding, but my mom (82 years old) watched it today and liked it.
I can understand why some prefer Batman Begins to the other 2. It is much less emotionally involved and a lot easier to just turn on and watch. It is a more "fun" movie than the Dark Knight. Dark Knight is like an investment (time and emotionally).
I'm only an hour and twenty five minutes in and while I split my listening up over the past two days I've got an honorable mention I don't think I've heard anyone say in the podcast or on the forums.
While probably somewhere in my top 25 my guilty pleasure would be Constatine. Yes Constatine. There is something about that movie that I just like. I will play it for background noise.
I'm only an hour and twenty five minutes in and while I split my listening up over the past two days I've got an honorable mention I don't think I've heard anyone say in the podcast or on the forums.
While probably somewhere in my top 25 my guilty pleasure would be Constatine. Yes Constatine. There is something about that movie that I just like. I will play it for background noise.
I'm only an hour and twenty five minutes in and while I split my listening up over the past two days I've got an honorable mention I don't think I've heard anyone say in the podcast or on the forums.
While probably somewhere in my top 25 my guilty pleasure would be Constatine. Yes Constatine. There is something about that movie that I just like. I will play it for background noise.
I'm only an hour and twenty five minutes in and while I split my listening up over the past two days I've got an honorable mention I don't think I've heard anyone say in the podcast or on the forums.
While probably somewhere in my top 25 my guilty pleasure would be Constatine. Yes Constatine. There is something about that movie that I just like. I will play it for background noise.
Its Shia LaBouf, isn't it?!
M
Is he the sidekick kid? I haven't seen that movie in years and the worst I can say about it is that it is just forgettable. I didn't hate it and I didn't love it. I can't really even remember it all. I do think that Rachel Weisz is stunning though.
I'm only an hour and twenty five minutes in and while I split my listening up over the past two days I've got an honorable mention I don't think I've heard anyone say in the podcast or on the forums.
While probably somewhere in my top 25 my guilty pleasure would be Constatine. Yes Constatine. There is something about that movie that I just like. I will play it for background noise.
Its Shia LaBouf, isn't it?!
M
Is he the sidekick kid? I haven't seen that movie in years and the worst I can say about it is that it is just forgettable. I didn't hate it and I didn't love it. I can't really even remember it all. I do think that Rachel Weisz is stunning though.
Oh yes! Forgot he was Chaz and Weisz doesn't hurt either. I loved the British lady who played the angel.
While probably somewhere in my top 25 my guilty pleasure would be Constatine. Yes Constatine. There is something about that movie that I just like. I will play it for background noise.
I saw that for the first time like a year ago. I had always heard horrible things about it and was prepared for the worst... but it wasn't really bad at all. If I were more of a fan of the character -- I *like* John Constantine quite a bit, but I don't have personal attachment to him -- then I could see where the very idea of Keanu Reeves playing him would be an affront. But I think he did an okay job and it was a very decent movie. I've heard that it kind of has a cult following (mostly amongst people who were NOT already fans of the comics, I would assume), and I can sort of see why. Still wouldn't say it was a "very good movie" or anything like that, but I don't think it deserves much hate. The worst I can say about it is that it COULD have been better if they followed the early Delano comics more. But it was still fun enough and very watchable, I thought.
It'd be all too easy to fill a top 5 with Marvel Studios films - because they get it. So I'm deliberately limiting it to two.
It'd also be easy to fill this with animated movies, so I'm treating that as a whole 'nother list.
1. Avengers 2. Winter Soldier 3. X-Men DoFP 4. The Dark Knight 5. The Incredibles
Honourable mentions: Dredd, X2, Man of Steel, The Wolverine, The Specials, Hellboy, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Sin City. Plus every Marvel Studios film except Iron Man 2.
The Constantine film's actually not bad, if you don't think of it as a Constantine film.
While probably somewhere in my top 25 my guilty pleasure would be Constatine. Yes Constatine. There is something about that movie that I just like. I will play it for background noise.
I'm with you Corwin. I'd also like to add a Speed Racer to honrable mentions and not just for Jamie D. Speed Racer is just a fun film that I enjoy popping on in the background.
Comments
Nope, I call each by their chapters & the whole story Star Wars.
M
It's just me, but I've never considered it a saga series of movies. Now the Godfather, that's a different conversation...
M
I have not yet seen this years offerings
I love entire Dark Knight triology but if I had to pick one it would be:
1. The Dark Knight-It actually transcends being a comic book film and is more of a crime thriller in the vein of Heat.
2. The Incredibles-The best Fantastic Four movie ever. And a smart look at the domestic lives of supeheroes.
3. The Avengers-The best pure comic book movie loads of fun.
4. X-2- Just watched last week still holds up. Has the best characterzation of all the X-Men
5. V for Vendetta-Never read the graphic novel. But I think this is a smart film. I think the editing is terrific.
Would making this "Top 5 Comic Book Movies and/or Sagas (Redux)" have changed your yet unposted list?
M
M
Seems like X Men 2 gets a lot of love but I think First Class is better. The period, action, setting it within the shadow of nuclear escalation and actually mentioning "we are the children of the atom". Love that.
That said, Screen Crush ranks their top 30 Marvel superhero movies. Pretty good list and a few no one mentioned... here
I've heard Twilight, Harry Potter, & Hunger Games are good examples of sagas; though I've neither read the books or seen the movies.
The list lost me somewhat along the way, but completely lost me when Punisher:War Zone is #10. I think there's a reason why some of these movies weren't mentioned on our lists.
M
Avengers is the best pure "comic book movie", but I found The Dark Knight and to some extent The Dark Knight Rises to be better, more meaningful movies. So Avengers is a better "comic book movie", but TDK is a better movie. If that makes any sense.
I know the usual line of critical thinking around fans who know a thing or two is to say that Batman Begins is actually the best Nolan Batman film. Admittedly, I've seen that first installment fewer times than I've seen TDK or TDKR, and I haven't seen BB in several years now . . . but as good as BB was, I think the later movies said more about the human condition or civilization or cities and politics or whatever. Maybe that sounds highfalutin to some, but I think that what the Joker and then Bane do in those movies actually, well, SAYS something. I think there's a philosophical profundity that runs through those later installments. It's not overdone, but it is there, and it's quite complicated and even-handed, especially when you work in how Batman and Gordon basically lie to the population regarding Dent, in order to give the city a totally false hero, because they think urban civilization needs hope, even if the hope is a lie. Those movies aren't perfect -- in particular, I think Murd is right when he points to Gordon's monologue at the end of TDK as being hammy or whatever, and I think that Bale's Batman growl always threatens to break the suspension of disbelief (though I LOVED Tom Hardy's creepy Bane voice!) -- but overall I think the positive far outweighs the negative, and those two movies reach a level of complexity, depth and meaning that no other comic book movie has been able to touch.
That said, Avengers is just so perfect for what it is that I'd almost certainly have to rank it higher than TDKR and it would challenge TDK as well. For me it's TDK's dark flawed profundity vs Avengers' somewhat superficial optimistic perfection. Avengers was the most fun I've ever had going to the movies, and there isn't a single thing I can say about that movie that wasn't well-executed. For what it was trying to do, it succeeded on all levels.
The only other comic movies that I would even think to mention would be some of the X-Men movies. I just saw DOFP and loved it. But First Class was probably more fun and I enjoyed its wit a bit more. Not that DOFP wasn't clever in its own right. And the old stalwart, X2, still holds up as the best *straight-forward* X-Men movie. So... I can't choose between them. I think I probably like DOFP and First Class more than X2, but that's probably because I haven't seen X2 in a few years now.
Oh, one last thing about the X-Men movies: I didn't think X-Men 3 was that bad! Certainly the worst of the first three movies, but I still had a good time with it! Was it underwhelming based on some of the source material? Yes. Was I a bit letdown? YES. But I was never terribly upset by it the way other people were. It's always struck me as funny the same way the reaction to Spider-Man 3 did, because I don't think these were HORRIBLE movies. Definitely the worst of their respective trilogies, but not BAD.
I can't really say much else that hasn't already been mentioned. Off-beat stuff like GhostWorld and History of Violence would get honorable mentions from me. Personally, I wouldn't call Incredibles or Dr. Strangelove comic book movies, because they're not literally based on comics. I like Unbreakable; maybe I'd be inclined to include that as a comic book movie because it is literally ABOUT comics.
I haven't seen either Cap movie, but will probably see them in the near future. For whatever reason I just have very little interest in them, but I've now seen that image of the poster with the Black Widow's curvy body on it about ten thousand times, and that has planted a seed in me to watch the movie eventually.
I've never seen ANY of the Reeves Superman movies all the way through. Never. Ever! I've seen a ton of clips over the years and have probably seen almost all the footage at one point or another, but I've never sat down to watch any of them all the way through. They've always looked "okay" to me, especially the first two, but I have just never been into them enough. I'm sure the first two are quite good, but I know there's not a chance they'd crack my top five.
So, I guess maybe I can make a top 5, and my top spot between TDK and Avengers would have to go to...
No, screw it. The "Crumb" documentary is the best comic book movie. It counts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crumb_(film)
Sidebar: Before there was Raimi's Spider-Man and Singer's X-Men, I was a fanboy for the Crow and thought it ranked pretty high on the comic book movie list.
I like both of these. However, I don't think The Crow has aged as well as other movies.
1. Marvel's Avengers (just a wonderful enactment of my childhood fantasies wondering what it would like for Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Cap, and the others to REALLY form a team and kick some butt!)
2. X-2 (I like calling it that, though I know Murd disagrees). Just that opening scene in the Oval Office took comic book film making to new heights.
3. Mystery Men: I forgot who it was that listed this, but I totally agree with them! This is one of those movies that I watch when I'm bored and/or in need of an escape or a laugh.
4. Batman Begins (I liked this one mostly because it started off the franchise and it seemed more "realistic" than the Michael Keaton one, though for me, on this list they are almost interchangeable).
5. Superman 1 (Christopher Reeve): I re-watch this on occasion and am just amazed at how much I still like it, even the cheesy (Can You Read My Mind and make the earth spin backwards) parts. I liked how each actor played the roles pretty much how I envisioned in the comics plus added their own little nuances. I also loved Otis and Miss Tessmacher (sic?). Oh, that Valerie Perrine! I remember getting a Playboy mag with her in it around that time also....
Oh, I forgot alternates: Kick Ass 1 (especially for Hit Girl), Blade 1, and Catwoman! (Nah, just kidding, but my mom (82 years old) watched it today and liked it.
The Phantom
Justice League: The New Frontier
The Avengers
Batman: Under The Red Hood
300
Some alternates would have to be: Blade, Captain America 1 & 2, Iron Man, & Man of Steel(I don't care want anyone says I enjoyed it!)
Top 5 worst comic book movies!
Catwoman
The Spirit
Punisher (Dolph Lungren)
Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
Jonah Hex
While probably somewhere in my top 25 my guilty pleasure would be Constatine. Yes Constatine. There is something about that movie that I just like. I will play it for background noise.
M
It'd also be easy to fill this with animated movies, so I'm treating that as a whole 'nother list.
1. Avengers
2. Winter Soldier
3. X-Men DoFP
4. The Dark Knight
5. The Incredibles
Honourable mentions: Dredd, X2, Man of Steel, The Wolverine, The Specials, Hellboy, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Sin City. Plus every Marvel Studios film except Iron Man 2.
The Constantine film's actually not bad, if you don't think of it as a Constantine film.