Real Life, Real Talk - The Community Support Thread
CageNarleigh
Posts: 729
I tend to give my life story when I post things (or at least post any and all things relevant to the topic) before getting into the actual premise/idea behind it.
I get that we come here to talk about the things that excite us and the hobby that drives our collective community. But, for many of us, this is one of the (if not THE) only forum we participate in. And oftentimes posting personal fears, worries, concerns, etc on social media can come across as someone just looking for attention or pouting publicly to get more likes and comments and pats on the back.
But here I feel like, although we are a tight knit community, most of you don't know me (or, in some cases, each other) well enough to bother putting up with self pity and instead will offer REAL advice and support (or even a REAL wake up call) to those who honestly ask for it.
That's the idea for this thread.
I know it could spiral out of control if not used right. But I feel that, every now and then, we need some emotional support from one another. Be it medical issues, relationship stuff, family drama, whatever. And I know not everyone is comfortable about opening up to one another, but hopefully this can/could become a place where we can do that.
So that's my idea. Sure, it means this thread might be a bit of a "downer" thread, but you don't have to casually read through it if you don't want to.
Premise set? Ok. Well let me gather my thoughts and get the ball rolling here in a few. (Hopefully I don't write too much, I tend to do that when I've got alot on my mind.)
I get that we come here to talk about the things that excite us and the hobby that drives our collective community. But, for many of us, this is one of the (if not THE) only forum we participate in. And oftentimes posting personal fears, worries, concerns, etc on social media can come across as someone just looking for attention or pouting publicly to get more likes and comments and pats on the back.
But here I feel like, although we are a tight knit community, most of you don't know me (or, in some cases, each other) well enough to bother putting up with self pity and instead will offer REAL advice and support (or even a REAL wake up call) to those who honestly ask for it.
That's the idea for this thread.
I know it could spiral out of control if not used right. But I feel that, every now and then, we need some emotional support from one another. Be it medical issues, relationship stuff, family drama, whatever. And I know not everyone is comfortable about opening up to one another, but hopefully this can/could become a place where we can do that.
So that's my idea. Sure, it means this thread might be a bit of a "downer" thread, but you don't have to casually read through it if you don't want to.
Premise set? Ok. Well let me gather my thoughts and get the ball rolling here in a few. (Hopefully I don't write too much, I tend to do that when I've got alot on my mind.)
Comments
Fast forward until today. I'm 27 and have had a few girlfriends. But the years being single between were often filled internally LAMENTING that I was single. Hating it and wondering what in Gods name was wrong with me. I know it's hard to accept self descriptions at face value but I consider myself to be far more respectful and gentlemanly than most guys my age. So it hurt to know so many girls loved being around me for who I am, but always stopped at the friend part.
Well, I thankfully got out of that line of thinking a year or two ago. (almost two) And although the habitual negative thinking has cropped up, I never again let myself be CONSUMED by it. And I feel like I'm doing better. I got a new car, a new phone, I'm paying bills on time, I'm doing things I want when I want and I'm just enjoying myself.
But the other day I went on a date with an INCREDIBLE girl. She was intelligent, thought the way I do, gorgeous, funny...the whole nine yards. And she was HONEST and told me she dated a 350lb man for 6 years so any insecurities I might have about how I look weight wise (because through natural "get to know you" texts and conversation we had asked about personal insecurities) wouldn't matter to her. So we met for drinks and had a great time.
Well the conversation dwindled and just stopped altogether after that. I didn't make a pass at her, I didn't treat her rudely, I didn't say anything crude...and MOST importantly...I wasn't self deprecating like I usually am. She made me feel comfortable and excited BEFORE the date and I just went in with zero reservations. But something didn't work I guess.
Now we could just call this one date and move on. I get that. No reason to get attached and take it personally over ONE date. I know. Logically guys, I KNOW. But this other girl I was talking to (and I do mean just talking to) also dwindled away and stopped talking to me. Again guys, I PROMISE. I'm 100% respectful and a gentlemen. I'm not a PRUDE but I don't make clumsy passes or inappropriate jokes. If they want to go there, fine, that's a cue and you follow suit. But it wasn't a factor here. These were just pleasant and fun conversations.
So now we have two amazing girls just DISAPPEAR. Yesterday I set up time to spend with a girl I've known for years. She recently build Legos with her son, and loved it and hadn't spent time with me in awhile and wanted to catch up and knew I'd be down for something fun and quirky like that. So she wanted to make a day of it. We went to a movie, we watched the sunset while eating ice cream, we came back to my place and built Legos and watched the second half of the Super Bowl, we talked and laughed and drank wine. She went home.
Sounds like a date? It wasn't. I've asked. She doesn't want THAT from me. Just friends. But combine all of these recent things and....I'm starting to drift down the rabbit hole of negative self perception thinking again. I'm not asking you what's wrong with me. Most of you don't know me well enough to tell me.
But I really don't want to go back to that place of self hatred and negative perception and being so bitter at the way women perceive me again. I really was good being past that and just waiting for the right thing to happen when it would. But reality is a bitch and these three IN YOUR FACE PHYSICAL EXAMPLES are hard to ignore.
I know alot of you are happily married and intelligent people...and realists like me. I just need some advice...some help...or maybe just some encouragement. Because I don't want to let myself go back down that stupid infantile cycle again. I really don't. It's a waste of time and I want so badly to stay above that and be better than what I used to be.
So I'm on Plenty of Fish (because it has an app and because it's free) but I'm on there daily staying visible. I get out and I do things with friends but I figure, "I'll go over here and hang with my friends and have fun, if I meet someone, I meet someone." So I guess my only proactive thing is POF.
I suppose my range needs to widen. But girls don't really like being pestered at the library and comic book store you know? lol
Note, I am not doing any of this to meet women. If I do, great, but if not, I am going to have a good time. Going out with friends is a way most people meeting their significant other, and it doesn’t have to be a drunken hookup, when you are with friends, you are talking about the things you find interesting…so if people come over and join in, so much the better.
I know Austin is considered kind of an artsy place, so go to film festivals, special screenings of cool movies and the like. Small bars with bands that you enjoy are a good place to have good conversations, simply because you have That In Common with the person.
And, if you are serious about wanting a relationship, do the dating apps and services. That way you can weed out the women who just are looking for a nice night and steer more toward women who are looking for the same things you are. But you will have to leave your comfort zone: Do new things and do them in new places.
It sucks. I’ve been there. I was a single dad at 26, and didn’t have a serious relationship for almost ten years simply because I was either working or taking care of my son, and anyone who says being a single dad is like a chick magnet hasn’t been a single dad.
And simply complimenting her is NOT flirting. It is actually kind of emasculating and then you become good friends and a handy a shoulder to cry on. In essence, you wind up becoming thought of as a reliable and dependable guy that she never thinks of in a sexual way. The dreaded "friend zone." Doing everything a woman wants without her ever feeling compelled to give you anything back is not flirting. Both people will be making an effort when you're flirting. Otherwise, you're wasting your time. So being super nice doesn't work. Being a jerk might seem to work at first, but it's loathsome and shallow and the results may get you in the sack, but it will never become a fulfilling relationship. I think your best @CageNarleigh bet is simply to begin flirting more. And flirting with every girl you meet - because what women seem to find most attractive is confidence. Be confident, cool, and behave like a gentleman. The more you've been flirting, the more confident you will become with women.
You can be nice to these women, but make them earn it. Cut up with them. Break their 'balls' a bit, but not too much. Suggest she has a nice smile, she will smile, you'll smile back, then say "hmmm... on second thought" then just laugh and say "I'm kidding, it's terrific" She may appear to get annoyed if it wasn't clear you were joking so practice. If she can tell you're joking then she'll act disgruntled and maybe hit you in the arm, but she'll still be smiling. You causally insulted her, but she's smiling = flirting. Essentially, you're teasing each other. And for every two steps forward you take one step back. Always maintain good eye contact or at least look at her lips when you talk to her. Relationships are kind of a dance or a chase, if you will. If she does something really cool then say you think so. To balance this, go easy on complimenting her appearance (anyone could have gotten that hair style, but not anyone can tell the funny anecdote she just did). Your entire vibe throughout this experience should be fun, lightly sarcastic, and occasionally silly. Don't be planning in your head a sequence of a hundred things to say, just go with the flow and enjoy yourself. Flirting is fun, so don't make it into a chore.
And always remain slightly out of reach, physically and emotionally. Remember, you want her to chase you. Initially, it shouldn't even seem like you're talking to her for any other reason than it seemed like it might be fun. If her friends are with her then flirt with them too, even if you're not interested. Flirt with them more than her and she'll feel compelled to work harder for your attention. Your side of the conversation should steer clear of any unpleasant subjects, and sport. Pop culture, tv shows, travels are always good subjects. And keep your swearing to a BARE minimum. Gentlemen rarely swear.
Give a piece of string to a cat and it will ignore it, but if you dangle that string over it's head, just out of reach but close enough to try to grab, the cat goes crazy for it. You need to be that dancing string. You need to start thinking of yourself as "the prize" not these women. Place value on your company. I'd also add that you ought to be doing some soul searching and just working on yourself in the meantime, while you're not out flirting :) This is a fabulous way to improve your confidence and your peace of mind. You're a fantastic guy and one of a kind because you are YOU. Don't let a lack of ladies get you down. Everyone goes through dry spells, and eventually you meet the right one and all becomes right with the world. While your life is placing you in a season without the commitments that come with a long-term relationship, enjoy yourself and do all the things you wish you had done and always wanted to do. Once you get married, a lot of that free time instantly disappears.
As long as your definition of a pass doesn't involve immediate groping or something gross, it's OK, and in fact, generally expected. By going on a date, you have established potential interest, the "pass" is confirmation.
Gentlemen do make passes. What makes one a gentleman is the ability to be respectful if the pass is declined.
If you take no initiative, you either come across as uninterested or unconfident.
Though it wouldn't kill me to be a little more assertive.
If you want to kiss someone, and you're not sure if you should, you can at least tell them you want to. If you want to, and don't indicate such, you are essentially being dishonest. Dishonesty is no basis for a good relationship.
Plus, if you ask, and the request is declined, you know the interest is not mutual, and can move on.
Before you even get to the kissing question, you can learn a whole lot through simple hand-to-hand contact. Touch her hand when you talk to her (and look in her eyes, for goodness sake!). If she withdraws from the contact, you've learned something. If she accepts the contact, you've learned something else. And if she reciprocates the contact, you've learned a lot. If the fingers entwine, odds are the limbs will do so as well.
@Bralinator's advice has definite merit, but he's dealing with more advanced tactics. Right now, I recommend simply being straightforward--particularly if you're already on a date. As I said above, the acceptance of a date (and be sure it is clear that it is a date!) carries with it the acceptance that romance is at least something to be considered by both parties.
She will touch herself.
No, not in that way, but while you're making conversation with her, watch her hands. Are they messing with a stray hair? Is she maybe straightening her shirt or putting her hand on the back of her neck? Scratching an itch maybe?
She's interested. And she's probably not even aware she's doing it. So keep an eye out for it.
As far as my own personal advice:
1) Be interesting. Nice guys do finish last, because there's absolutely nothing interesting about them. You're no challenge. This doesn't mean you should be a prick. It just means you need to bring something to the table. I look like a bridge troll, but I know my way around a kitchen. I love playing music, and can play any number of instruments. I have hobbies and interests way outside her own, but that still makes me someone interesting to the opposite gender.
2) Don't be interested. Yes, women love that you'll fawn over them. No, they're not interested in you if that's ALL you do (see #1 above). Almost every relationship I've had (admittedly few) came about when I wasn't looking. All this comes about as a process of making yourself interesting. The old saying "Be your own best friend" isn't just hooey. If you consider yourself a hot property (and you should), the rest falls into play. Obviously you've got something going on...and people respond to that kind of thing.
3) You're gonna change, but not 100%. It's a fun comical idea that all a woman wants is to change a guy once she nabs him. And then once she's changed him into what she wants he's no longer interesting and she dumps him. This is part of the fun game of love...at least for me...let her change you, but never completely. Let her gain ground in one area while you move your other forces elsewhere. :) Keep the game fun, but keep it interesting as well (again...see #1)
4) During the woo-ing/courtship process (and pretty much after that): Yes, it's important to remember anniversaries and birthdays and made-up holidays like Valentine's Day. You really want to slam-dunk her? Give her a present for no reason beyond "It's Thursday and I saw this and thought you'd like it. No other reason." She will chuck the valentine's cards in the trash. She will forget what you got her for her birthday five years ago. Chances are she'll always have that little thing you picked her up "just because".
Disclaimer: What worked for me may not work for you...any of you. Only testimony I can give you is I just celebrated year 10 of marital bliss with the wife. And she still hasn't changed me completely. ;) But man she's having fun trying. :)
I'm so frustrated with a couple of the women in my life right now that I wonder if Homosexuality isn't a viable alternative.
I am a month away from being laid off from the job I landed a year ago. I'm trying to find something else at the company, but they are moving their HR Call Center operations to Costa Rica, and since I am a contractor, they really don't seem to much care if I land something. The temp agency I am with is promising they will find em something (and they should, they get a LOT of money when I work) and they claim they have never heard feedback as good as what I get.
And I will get unemployment due to it being a layoff.
But damn, I haven't been able to keep a business position for more than 2 years in the last 7...if not for the group home job, where I've been for 6 years now, I'd have a terrible work history simply because they keep moving my job overseas or getting rid of the department.
I'm much older than I'd like to be for constant job hunting...but it sure feels like it's the New Normal.
Have you ever considered going back to school or enrolling in a training course or a certificate program to help prepare for a new career? It might be a challenge to pursue an education while working a full-time job. You'd need to find one that fits your personal learning style and your lifestyle needs. The good news is that the amount of educational resources available online nowadays is mind-boggling. You might focus on learning new concepts while creating something you can add to a portfolio to show off to potential employers.
Also, the concept of finding and working with a mentor in a new field could prove beneficial and connect you with the real-world skills you'll need to excel in a different work environment. While you'd likely have some new skills to learn, a different career may actually allow you to use some of your existing talents and resources in different, unexpected ways.
It can also be very hard to sort through available job opportunities and identify where you can make a contribution as well as grow at the same time, but you may consider an entry-level position where you can work your way up. Success going this route will be mostly determined by how well you can stomach humble pie as well as a serious cut in pay.
I don't know how well a temp agency is going to work out long-term, and it may be your only option right now, unless you and Joe are finally ready to open that dream comicbook store you guys frequently mention on your podcast. I wish you all the best @SolitaireRose
My 2 cents.
Sorry no advice. Misery loves company.
It just means I have to go through the whole "find a job, interview, lather, rinse, repeat" again. It's annoying and I'm pretty damn tired of it.
I've always found the best friends are the ones calling you on your shit. Always keeping it real with you. And although we're a tight knit community, I don't think any of us are of the type to just give empty platitudes.
And as far as employment. I'm in Austin, TX. One of the best job markets in the best employer state in the United States. And even I feel like I'm just paying the bills and constantly in jeopardy of losing a job simply "cause". So, no advice I suppose, but you're definitely not alone. Not even in the "good part of the country" for jobs.
I got an e-mail in December from a person who had been contacted by my agency. At that point, I had been told my position would be in place until May…so I sent a very polite letter stating that I was committed to my current assignment until then. Then, when I was given the new, much closer date, I told my temp agency and got an e-mail from the job contact within an hour.
Good sign, right?
We have the interview. I have my experience stories set, hit all of the points I make in interviews, and o a good job with it. Three days later, “You aren’t quite the right fit for this job, and I don’t have a job you would fit.”
A solid decision on her part, she knows what she is looking for, and since it’s a position with a lot of holding people accountable and not a lot of coach/counsel, I agree with her. But the whole PROCESS is one I am tired of. Finding the position, applying to the position, hoping you get interviewed, working on the interview and then waiting to hear….
I don’t want to come off as flippant…and reading my previous message makes me feel like I did. I do work on getting more education, the internet is filled with wonderful free classes from MIT and other schools. I have transferred my skillsets five major times in my adult career and know I will probably need to do so again. I have no problem starting at the bottom. My LinkedIn profile is active and filled with information and articles in my fields.
But damn. I am so tired of going through job postings. I just want a job I can go to, do and get a decent salary so I can start putting money toward a retirement.
Things have worked out for me but seeing money just rise to the top while established workers are basically replaced with younger, newer, and cheaper people is frustrating.
The truth is that there is no mystical secret to finding that person who is right for you. The best thing that you can do is try to be comfortable with yourself, and then project that confidence to the world around you (not just with women but wholistically in all aspects of life).
Focus on experiences that make you happy, because that's where you'll likely find someone with similar interests. Don't try to troll through bars and clubs if that's not your thing.
I completely agree that online resources are a great way to find interesting people too.
Lastly, make sure to spend time interacting with the friends and family who make you happy (that includes all of us, your CGS forum pals!). Confidence and content are the most powerful cologne you can wear when looking to make yourself attractive. Hang in there, and be sure to check back from time to time on how things are going. Looking forward to hearing from you again soon!
You are losing your position through no fault of your own. In fact, by all accounts your performance has been strong. This should help you generate great recommendations.
Plus, on unemployment you will get some time to focus on other aspects of life. You can join a gym, perhaps cultivate a new occupational skill, and best of all READ MORE COMICS! :)
Anyhow, I don't envy you but at least take solace in knowing that you'll always have friends at the CGS forums to talk to when times are tough. All the best!
All I can say is best of luck, SR. I hope it goes much better for you than it did for me.
But yeah, being unemployed before, I had to spend 5 - 7 hours a day looking, applying, calling, writing, etc...
And I was a lucky one...only out for three months before landing another gig. The strangest part was meeting someone at the new job who'd also been on the dole for a bit and he asked how long I'd been out. I told him and he responded "Best three months of your life, wasn't it?"
And you know, in a strange way...it kinda was. Yes, I had the stress of finding work, and the ongoing quest for a stable job always looming over my head, and watching my meager savings start ticking down to oblivion, but I'd put in about 10-15 years of non-stop working and never put on the brakes. There was something to be said for getting up at the crack of 11:00 a.m. to make pancakes and watch M*A*S*H, then go back to bed or draw if I felt like it. Or stay up until 1 a.m. watching Adult Swim because I didn't have to get up in the morning.
I was out of full-time work for quite a long while, and that time was why I always have a part-time job of some kind.
And thanks for your words @Spydes
I had been working as an accountant for 5 years, but I was also trying to finish my degree and we got married in the middle of 2007 when everything was starting its downward spiral. It was a hardway to start a marriage. My wife was in gradschool for history so that compounded everything even more. It was tough emotionally.
We made it through though and I was humbled more than any point in my life. Looking back 8 years it was one of the most important things that ever happened to me. It made me reavaluate myself and define what was important. I would not trade the shame and crushing blow to myself for anything because of the I learned at the time.
And by God I clean a toliet and mop a floor with pride now.