I wonder if one of the reasons for the increased emphasis on Batman the fighter over Batman the investigator is that it's a lot more work to write a good mystery than it is to tell your artist to draw a good fight.
Yes, but to be fair, it's easier for most artists to draw a good fight than to draw an interesting investigation, and I think more readers would rather see a good fight than read an investigative procedural.
I wonder if one of the reasons for the increased emphasis on Batman the fighter over Batman the investigator is that it's a lot more work to write a good mystery than it is to tell your artist to draw a good fight.
I think there is something to that.
Even in the couple of, very good, Batman video games I have played in the Arkham series of games, I feel like they are much better at making situations for the player to be a fighter, or be stealthy. But the detective parts of the game are good, but not as good. And, I would gues, harder for them to write for.
I wonder if one of the reasons for the increased emphasis on Batman the fighter over Batman the investigator is that it's a lot more work to write a good mystery than it is to tell your artist to draw a good fight.
Yes, but to be fair, it's easier for most artists to draw a good fight than to draw an interesting investigation, and I think more readers would rather see a good fight than read an investigative procedural.
I guess I'm in the minority in that I'm far more interested in character and story than I am in the art.
I'll tolerate mediocre art on a well-written book far easier than mediocre writing on a well-drawn book.
This may also explain why my to-read comic book stack continues to get taller, while I spend more time reading novels.
I also don't know that the Batman presented in Dark Knight was meant to be Miller's statement on how Batman always was, or always should be. That Batman was the one that fit a story about a dystopian future where Wayne retired Batman for 10 years, and then finally comes back. The Dark Knight that returns is the one that goes along with that sort of dystopian world. And, like most dystopian fiction going back to before we had comics, I think Dark Knight Returns is meant to be more allegory than continuity. Like a lot of explorations of a dystopian future, I feel like DKR is more about what Miller is saying about the future then it is his definitive statement on Batman. Because I don't think it is a Batman we are supposed to ever actually get to. (And, yes, I know there have been time editors or whoever at DC have claimed that DKR is "in continuity", and I think that is ridiculous. And I doubt Miller had such things on his mind when he made it.) I think DKR is more like a story of 'here is the future we are afraid of getting to, as reported from a 1986 point of view, and through the lens of the Batman myth.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Exactly.
I agree, so I gave it my obligatory "Insightful," yours too.
I hope it's good. I loved the first one and enjoyed the second installment (if you haven't read it since it came out, give it another shot. It's a fun book). New stories do not diminish old ones. Each one is
I won't be purchasing this 3rd installment from Miller. I bought the original graphic novel miniseries when it came out and never really cared for it. I know it's an important piece of comic book/Batman history but It just never struck me as the masterpiece most claim it to be. Furthermore, I thought its impact on superheroes has been overly negative in the long-run as too many creators came to believe "gritty and grim" were other words for profound.
Miller's Dark Knight sequel was unreadable and I can't see this as being any better. Miller has lost whatever "creative genius" he had along ago in my estimation. I hope those who do pick up the new story like it. I'll be rereading Darwyn Cooke's New Frontier instead.
I enjoyed the first collection. I do find it a bit overrated; especially since it's constantly being scavenged more then the Giving Tree. It'd be in the latter portion of my Top Ten Batman stories.
Although this fits Batman, the fad of giving non-grim characters the DKR treatment is normally a miss then a hit with other characters.
I wonder if one of the reasons for the increased emphasis on Batman the fighter over Batman the investigator is that it's a lot more work to write a good mystery than it is to tell your artist to draw a good fight.
EXACTLY! I liked that Batman of the 70's because he was a Detective. Especially in the David V Reed stories (which really should get reprinted) where Batman methodically figured out the crime. I think a lot of that was Julie Schwartz's editorial influence, since he loved "puzzle" stories. The Batman of the 80's was the more human, almost Marvelized super-hero style and while it's not my favorite now, it is the one that got me into the character.
Dark Knight was groundbreaking in many, many ways, and I think it shows Miller's love of crime fiction and 50's novels on his way to Sin City, which is pure love for Mickey Spillane and his fellow travelers...but it as also a new art style for him.
Denny O'Neil has a lot of good points, can write a good story (when he has someone to sit on him and curb his indulgences) but I found Batman under his tenure to be one-note. It's why Alan Grant did so well with it, since Grant had YEARS of writing about a one-note character and knowing to make the world and the antagonists interesting, while Judge Dredd could never change, grow or be more than a relentless robot driving toward the story's end.
The Rucka/Brubaker era was a great mix of the crime fiction that Miller drew from while still making Batman himself interesting, followed by Mo9rrison's brilliant/controversial take.
Batman of Nu52 is back to the one-note character. I know some people like him, but in the current stories, Batman is BY FAR the least interesting character.
I won't be purchasing this 3rd installment from Miller. I bought the original graphic novel miniseries when it came out and never really cared for it. I know it's an important piece of comic book/Batman history but It just never struck me as the masterpiece most claim it to be. Furthermore, I thought its impact on superheroes has been overly negative in the long-run as too many creators came to believe "gritty and grim" were other words for profound.
My main gripe with Miller and his ilk is that they turned Batman into a psychotic. I like a Batman who can smile, crack a joke, and go out in the daylight once in awhile. There is nothing honorable or heroic in Miller's Dark Knight in my mind. I've been reading the Showcase collection of Batman & the Outsiders by Barr and Aparo this week. It was nice to revisit a Batman/Bruce Wayne who wasn't completely full of angst and despair.
EDIT-- WARNING, LONG, HALF-THOUGHT OUT ESSAY TO FOLLOW..
I get that you didn't like Dark Knight, and fair enough.
But I think to hold it accountable for the grim and gritty direction that Miller imitators- including some later Batman creators- went in after it's success is not really fair to the original work.
I also don't know that the Batman presented in Dark Knight was meant to be Miller's statement on how Batman always was, or always should be. That Batman was the one that fit a story about a dystopian future where Wayne retired Batman for 10 years, and then finally comes back. The Dark Knight that returns is the one that goes along with that sort of dystopian world. And, like most dystopian fiction going back to before we had comics, I think Dark Knight Returns is meant to be more allegory than continuity.
Like a lot of explorations of a dystopian future, I feel like DKR is more about what Miller is saying about the future then it is his definitive statement on Batman. Because I don't think it is a Batman we are supposed to ever actually get to. (And, yes, I know there have been time editors or whoever at DC have claimed that DKR is "in continuity", and I think that is ridiculous. And I doubt Miller had such things on his mind when he made it.)
I think DKR is more like a story of 'here is the future we are afraid of getting to, as reported from a 1986 point of view, and through the lens of the Batman myth.
And, sure, that Batman struck a cord with people, sold like hotcakes, made a big splash, etc. So there were bound to be imitators trying to cash in on what they saw as a demand for those kinds of characters. Just like there would be those who would try to make characters like Rorschach in their comics, missing the point of Rorschach as a character that was not in Watchmen to be aspirational. In fact, the opposite. But I don't think the creators of those characters are at fault for what they inspired in those who might have missed the point. Or those who are just trying to make a quick buck with lesser works.
I think, when it comes to trying to get a sense of what sort of Batman Miller wrote when writing a regular Batman (at least, back then), then the better example is Year One.
Sure, Year One is realistic, grim and gritty. It doesn't have daylight or jokes. And it may not be for everybody. That is fine. But for all the grime and grit to the Gotham of that story, I find it to be filled with heroism, nobility, and self-sacrifice. For both Wayne and Gordon. It is actually, I think, a story that has a lot of hope in it.
Sure, the Wayne in that story is not a happy person. But I don't think he is in any way meant to be psychotic. Driven and singular? Yes. Unhappy and probably never to be happy? Yes. But, then, I don't think we were meant to believe that revenge/trauma driven heroes would ever retire happy, either. But in Year One he is a hero, not a psycho. And capable of working with a fellow hero, in Gordon.
I feel like Year One is a better place to judge Miller's take on what Batman 'should be', as that story was meant to be the definitive origin of the current character. The one that other creators would continue to tell stories about that month, and the months to follow.
Also, if Batman being grittier and more realistic is not for you (and, again, that's fine. What's great about Batman is he works a lot of different ways) I would also suggest that is less on MIller and more on editor Denny O'Neill. Who as a writer and editor had been pushing for that since the 1970s. (By the way, he was not the editor of Batman and the Outsiders, which is why the character there might have had a tone that was a lot different than even the Batman and Detective issues that were contemporary to Batman & The Outsiders.)
So, again, not saying you are wrong to not like what you didn't like. But I feel like there is this lasting idea that the DKR Batman (which, arguably, is a pretty extreme) is Miller's entire idea of who and what Batman should always be. And I think feel like the in-continuity one he presented just a year later in the Batman series contradicts that.
And I don't think it is fair to blame DKR for what some imitators did after it.
Batman: Year One continues to be my favorite Batman story. I like the trimmed, basic elements; no extensive equipment, mistakes made, origin of why 2 characters need each other to save Gotham.
I disagree the DKR version doesn't represent Miller's view of what the character is. I would've agreed with you up until All-Star Batman & Robin. It felt more like the version in DKSA. You can definitely see why Grayson hated Batman.
I won't be purchasing this 3rd installment from Miller. I bought the original graphic novel miniseries when it came out and never really cared for it. I know it's an important piece of comic book/Batman history but It just never struck me as the masterpiece most claim it to be. Furthermore, I thought its impact on superheroes has been overly negative in the long-run as too many creators came to believe "gritty and grim" were other words for profound.
My main gripe with Miller and his ilk is that they turned Batman into a psychotic. I like a Batman who can smile, crack a joke, and go out in the daylight once in awhile. There is nothing honorable or heroic in Miller's Dark Knight in my mind. I've been reading the Showcase collection of Batman & the Outsiders by Barr and Aparo this week. It was nice to revisit a Batman/Bruce Wayne who wasn't completely full of angst and despair.
EDIT-- WARNING, LONG, HALF-THOUGHT OUT ESSAY TO FOLLOW..
I get that you didn't like Dark Knight, and fair enough.
But I think to hold it accountable for the grim and gritty direction that Miller imitators- including some later Batman creators- went in after it's success is not really fair to the original work.
I also don't know that the Batman presented in Dark Knight was meant to be Miller's statement on how Batman always was, or always should be. That Batman was the one that fit a story about a dystopian future where Wayne retired Batman for 10 years, and then finally comes back. The Dark Knight that returns is the one that goes along with that sort of dystopian world. And, like most dystopian fiction going back to before we had comics, I think Dark Knight Returns is meant to be more allegory than continuity.
Like a lot of explorations of a dystopian future, I feel like DKR is more about what Miller is saying about the future then it is his definitive statement on Batman. Because I don't think it is a Batman we are supposed to ever actually get to. (And, yes, I know there have been time editors or whoever at DC have claimed that DKR is "in continuity", and I think that is ridiculous. And I doubt Miller had such things on his mind when he made it.)
I think DKR is more like a story of 'here is the future we are afraid of getting to, as reported from a 1986 point of view, and through the lens of the Batman myth.
And, sure, that Batman struck a cord with people, sold like hotcakes, made a big splash, etc. So there were bound to be imitators trying to cash in on what they saw as a demand for those kinds of characters. Just like there would be those who would try to make characters like Rorschach in their comics, missing the point of Rorschach as a character that was not in Watchmen to be aspirational. In fact, the opposite. But I don't think the creators of those characters are at fault for what they inspired in those who might have missed the point. Or those who are just trying to make a quick buck with lesser works.
I think, when it comes to trying to get a sense of what sort of Batman Miller wrote when writing a regular Batman (at least, back then), then the better example is Year One.
Sure, Year One is realistic, grim and gritty. It doesn't have daylight or jokes. And it may not be for everybody. That is fine. But for all the grime and grit to the Gotham of that story, I find it to be filled with heroism, nobility, and self-sacrifice. For both Wayne and Gordon. It is actually, I think, a story that has a lot of hope in it.
Sure, the Wayne in that story is not a happy person. But I don't think he is in any way meant to be psychotic. Driven and singular? Yes. Unhappy and probably never to be happy? Yes. But, then, I don't think we were meant to believe that revenge/trauma driven heroes would ever retire happy, either. But in Year One he is a hero, not a psycho. And capable of working with a fellow hero, in Gordon.
I feel like Year One is a better place to judge Miller's take on what Batman 'should be', as that story was meant to be the definitive origin of the current character. The one that other creators would continue to tell stories about that month, and the months to follow.
Also, if Batman being grittier and more realistic is not for you (and, again, that's fine. What's great about Batman is he works a lot of different ways) I would also suggest that is less on MIller and more on editor Denny O'Neill. Who as a writer and editor had been pushing for that since the 1970s. (By the way, he was not the editor of Batman and the Outsiders, which is why the character there might have had a tone that was a lot different than even the Batman and Detective issues that were contemporary to Batman & The Outsiders.)
So, again, not saying you are wrong to not like what you didn't like. But I feel like there is this lasting idea that the DKR Batman (which, arguably, is a pretty extreme) is Miller's entire idea of who and what Batman should always be. And I think feel like the in-continuity one he presented just a year later in the Batman series contradicts that.
And I don't think it is fair to blame DKR for what some imitators did after it.
Batman: Year One continues to be my favorite Batman story. I like the trimmed, basic elements; no extensive equipment, mistakes made, origin of why 2 characters need each other to save Gotham.
I disagree the DKR version doesn't represent Miller's view of what the character is. I would've agreed with you up until All-Star Batman & Robin. It felt more like the version in DKSA. You can definitely see why Grayson hated Batman.
M
Maybe. Personally, since DKR and Year One came out almost side by side, I feel like Miller-- at least Miller as who he was in the 1980s-- wrote the Year One Batman as the beginning of Batman as he should be, starting out and heading to the present. I think his DKR Batman is who he thinks Batman would be if we let the world get to the point it is at in the dystopian future he presents. I do think that is his view of who the character would be *in that world*. But I don't think Miller, at least Miller at that time, felt like Batman had to be that extreme and militarized all the time
But I think some people at the time, in their excitement, or perhaps in their own, perhaps reactionary, feelings about crime and society in 1986 saw the Dark Knight Batman as 'Batman done right'. You know what I mean? But I think Miller was first and foremost creating a dysopian world he hoped to never have to live in. And then made Batman the one that fit that world.
Grant had YEARS of writing about a one-note character and knowing to make the world and the antagonists interesting, while Judge Dredd could never change, grow or be more than a relentless robot driving toward the story's end.
Holy cats.
That's it.
Somewhere along the way, post-Dark Knight, Batman turned into Judge Dredd.
But I think some people at the time, in their excitement, or perhaps in their own, perhaps reactionary, feelings about crime and society in 1986 saw the Dark Knight Batman as 'Batman done right'. You know what I mean? But I think Miller was first and foremost creating a dysopian world he hoped to never have to live in. And then made Batman the one that fit that world.
Miller's Dark Knight is as much a part of the 1980s culture that helped spawn it as is the Adam West series is of its own time.
I would agree. And, with that in mind, while it is impossible to argue a hypothetical, I think we may have ended up with grim and gritty superheroes in that lay 80s and early 90s even without DKR and Watchmen.
Those works often get cited (or blamed) for being influences that sent superheroes in that direction. But other cultural forces in that time outside of comics were sending heroes towards being anti-heroes.
Even without those influential works, the demand for what we got in the early 90s might have happened anyway.
Impossible to know, of course. But I am wary of ever giving DKR and Watchmen too much credit, or too much blame, for what followed them.
DC COMICS PRESENTS DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE DC Comics is proud to present the debut issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE, one of the most ambitious projects ever from a major American comics publisher. Here are the details...
Each issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE will include: • A 32-page standard format comic book that will measure 6.625” x 10.1875” • A 16-page minicomic with no interior ads that will measure 5.5” x 8.375” The minicomic will be tipped on to an insert and bound into the main comic. After the release of each issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE, DC Entertainment will release a volume of the DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE COLLECTOR’S EDITION that will collect the both the main story and mini-comic from latest issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE as a single 7.0625” x 10.875” title, with both stories presented at the same trim size.
After the first seven DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE COLLECTOR’S EDITION have been published, DC Entertainment will ship a special slipcase designed to hold the entire set with the eighth COLLECTOR’S EDITION.
DKIII also will feature a dazzling array of variant covers by some of the biggest names in comics today. And, for the first time ever, DC will offer custom store variant editions to qualifying retailers. Watch for more information coming soon!
DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE #1 Written by FRANK MILLER and BRIAN AZZARELLO Art by ANDY KUBERT and KLAUS JANSON Mini comic art by TBA Cover by ANDY KUBERT and KLAUS JANSON 1:10 variant cover by KLAUS JANSON 1:25 variant cover by ANDY KUBERT and KLAUS JANSON 1:50 variant cover by TBA 1:100 variant cover by FRANK MILLER 1:500 variant cover by JIM LEE 1:5000 original sketch variant by JIM LEE Blank variant cover On sale NOVEMBER 25 32 pg comic: 6.375” x 10.1875” 16 page minicomic: 5.5” x 8.5” FC, 1 of 8, $5.99 US • RATED T+
I guess on this one, like the Hitch Justice League of America #1, they are holding the line at $5.99, eh? Maybe not too surprising considering how well that Hitch issue sold. And, of course, the visibility of this as a project.
I don't know. There is part of me that knows I should just wait until the dust clears and read the collected edition a year later. But then another part of me, despite the price point, sees the crazy format they are doing, and the people involved, and can't help but at least give the first issue a try while it is all happening.
DC COMICS PRESENTS DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE DC Comics is proud to present the debut issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE, one of the most ambitious projects ever from a major American comics publisher. Here are the details...
Each issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE will include: • A 32-page standard format comic book that will measure 6.625” x 10.1875” • A 16-page minicomic with no interior ads that will measure 5.5” x 8.375” The minicomic will be tipped on to an insert and bound into the main comic. After the release of each issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE, DC Entertainment will release a volume of the DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE COLLECTOR’S EDITION that will collect the both the main story and mini-comic from latest issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE as a single 7.0625” x 10.875” title, with both stories presented at the same trim size.
After the first seven DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE COLLECTOR’S EDITION have been published, DC Entertainment will ship a special slipcase designed to hold the entire set with the eighth COLLECTOR’S EDITION.
DKIII also will feature a dazzling array of variant covers by some of the biggest names in comics today. And, for the first time ever, DC will offer custom store variant editions to qualifying retailers. Watch for more information coming soon!
DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE #1 Written by FRANK MILLER and BRIAN AZZARELLO Art by ANDY KUBERT and KLAUS JANSON Mini comic art by TBA Cover by ANDY KUBERT and KLAUS JANSON 1:10 variant cover by KLAUS JANSON 1:25 variant cover by ANDY KUBERT and KLAUS JANSON 1:50 variant cover by TBA 1:100 variant cover by FRANK MILLER 1:500 variant cover by JIM LEE 1:5000 original sketch variant by JIM LEE Blank variant cover On sale NOVEMBER 25 32 pg comic: 6.375” x 10.1875” 16 page minicomic: 5.5” x 8.5” FC, 1 of 8, $5.99 US • RATED T+
I guess on this one, like the Hitch Justice League of America #1, they are holding the line at $5.99, eh? Maybe not too surprising considering how well that Hitch issue sold. And, of course, the visibility of this as a project.
I don't know. There is part of me that knows I should just wait until the dust clears and read the collected edition a year later. But then another part of me, despite the price point, sees the crazy format they are doing, and the people involved, and can't help but at least give the first issue a try while it is all happening.
Also, I am surprised it is only rated T+.
I'd listen to the part of you that remembers Dark Knight Strikes Again.
DC COMICS PRESENTS DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE DC Comics is proud to present the debut issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE, one of the most ambitious projects ever from a major American comics publisher. Here are the details...
Each issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE will include: • A 32-page standard format comic book that will measure 6.625” x 10.1875” • A 16-page minicomic with no interior ads that will measure 5.5” x 8.375” The minicomic will be tipped on to an insert and bound into the main comic. After the release of each issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE, DC Entertainment will release a volume of the DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE COLLECTOR’S EDITION that will collect the both the main story and mini-comic from latest issue of DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE as a single 7.0625” x 10.875” title, with both stories presented at the same trim size.
After the first seven DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE COLLECTOR’S EDITION have been published, DC Entertainment will ship a special slipcase designed to hold the entire set with the eighth COLLECTOR’S EDITION.
DKIII also will feature a dazzling array of variant covers by some of the biggest names in comics today. And, for the first time ever, DC will offer custom store variant editions to qualifying retailers. Watch for more information coming soon!
DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE #1 Written by FRANK MILLER and BRIAN AZZARELLO Art by ANDY KUBERT and KLAUS JANSON Mini comic art by TBA Cover by ANDY KUBERT and KLAUS JANSON 1:10 variant cover by KLAUS JANSON 1:25 variant cover by ANDY KUBERT and KLAUS JANSON 1:50 variant cover by TBA 1:100 variant cover by FRANK MILLER 1:500 variant cover by JIM LEE 1:5000 original sketch variant by JIM LEE Blank variant cover On sale NOVEMBER 25 32 pg comic: 6.375” x 10.1875” 16 page minicomic: 5.5” x 8.5” FC, 1 of 8, $5.99 US • RATED T+
I guess on this one, like the Hitch Justice League of America #1, they are holding the line at $5.99, eh? Maybe not too surprising considering how well that Hitch issue sold. And, of course, the visibility of this as a project.
I don't know. There is part of me that knows I should just wait until the dust clears and read the collected edition a year later. But then another part of me, despite the price point, sees the crazy format they are doing, and the people involved, and can't help but at least give the first issue a try while it is all happening.
Also, I am surprised it is only rated T+.
I'd listen to the part of you that remembers Dark Knight Strikes Again.
M
I know, I know. But I actually enjoyed DK2 more than many. And I can't help but expect (hope?) that it will all get more bonkers as it goes along.
I loved the Dark Knight Returns and still own it in the leather bound edition. As for the sequel, when I first read it, I was all but repulsed by DK2. I'm a fan of Miller's work in general, but this particular solicit sounds very much like a bloated cash grab. I think I'll wait to check it out in tpb format through the secondary market in a year or so (i.e. eBay) - if the reviews are fair.
Normally I pass on the singles, but the format seems really interesting. I think I'm going to pick it up. dc is is getting all my monies for next months dcbs order.
It's been nearly 9 years since I've bought a current issue of Batman. The last & only current issue I've read (Detective Comics #1) was nearly 4 years ago. I don't see a reason to alter that at this point.
IF I get & read this story, it'd only be the collected version, following a nice 50% Wild Pig sale.
As someone who generally waits for the trade I'm not sure if I should get the Hardcover Master Race Ultimate edition with the mini-comics left out or the two-volume Hardcover Master Race Twin-Pak edition with the comics separated out or the Absolute Master Race Compendium with everything included or the Master Race trade paperback...
Sheesh, DC... :)
Also, for the record, I've loved all aspects of the Miller Bat-Verse - including DK2 and ASB&R.
The format seems really weird to me. I can see them charging a ton for it and having bajillions of variant covers, but the inserted mini-comic just seems damn strange.
And I have heard Frank isn't doing well, medially, so I like the idea that he's working with a VERY good team for this series. For all the crap he gets on the internet, when he's on, there are very few people better and I look forward to his work whenever it comes out.
Besides, it's not like he ever put out anything as gawdawful as Crossed +100...
As someone who generally waits for the trade I'm not sure if I should get the Hardcover Master Race Ultimate edition with the mini-comics left out or the two-volume Hardcover Master Race Twin-Pak edition with the comics separated out or the Absolute Master Race Compendium with everything included or the Master Race trade paperback...
Sheesh, DC... :)
Also, for the record, I've loved all aspects of the Miller Bat-Verse - including DK2 and ASB&R.
I preordered the one that comes airbrushed on a van.
Am I the only one utterly creeped-out by the title?
It's an odd choice, but something tells me that it is meant to be provocative or evocative rather than indicative. Kryptonian invasion? Mutant uprising? Nazi zombies?
More speculation and history on the original, unused, title here
Comments
Even in the couple of, very good, Batman video games I have played in the Arkham series of games, I feel like they are much better at making situations for the player to be a fighter, or be stealthy. But the detective parts of the game are good, but not as good. And, I would gues, harder for them to write for.
I'll tolerate mediocre art on a well-written book far easier than mediocre writing on a well-drawn book.
This may also explain why my to-read comic book stack continues to get taller, while I spend more time reading novels.
Yes that includes ASB&R and DK2.
Dark Knight was groundbreaking in many, many ways, and I think it shows Miller's love of crime fiction and 50's novels on his way to Sin City, which is pure love for Mickey Spillane and his fellow travelers...but it as also a new art style for him.
Denny O'Neil has a lot of good points, can write a good story (when he has someone to sit on him and curb his indulgences) but I found Batman under his tenure to be one-note. It's why Alan Grant did so well with it, since Grant had YEARS of writing about a one-note character and knowing to make the world and the antagonists interesting, while Judge Dredd could never change, grow or be more than a relentless robot driving toward the story's end.
The Rucka/Brubaker era was a great mix of the crime fiction that Miller drew from while still making Batman himself interesting, followed by Mo9rrison's brilliant/controversial take.
Batman of Nu52 is back to the one-note character. I know some people like him, but in the current stories, Batman is BY FAR the least interesting character.
I disagree the DKR version doesn't represent Miller's view of what the character is. I would've agreed with you up until All-Star Batman & Robin. It felt more like the version in DKSA. You can definitely see why Grayson hated Batman.
M
But I think some people at the time, in their excitement, or perhaps in their own, perhaps reactionary, feelings about crime and society in 1986 saw the Dark Knight Batman as 'Batman done right'. You know what I mean? But I think Miller was first and foremost creating a dysopian world he hoped to never have to live in. And then made Batman the one that fit that world.
That's it.
Somewhere along the way, post-Dark Knight, Batman turned into Judge Dredd.
Judge Batt.
All this.
Those works often get cited (or blamed) for being influences that sent superheroes in that direction. But other cultural forces in that time outside of comics were sending heroes towards being anti-heroes.
Even without those influential works, the demand for what we got in the early 90s might have happened anyway.
Impossible to know, of course. But I am wary of ever giving DKR and Watchmen too much credit, or too much blame, for what followed them.
I don't know. There is part of me that knows I should just wait until the dust clears and read the collected edition a year later. But then another part of me, despite the price point, sees the crazy format they are doing, and the people involved, and can't help but at least give the first issue a try while it is all happening.
Also, I am surprised it is only rated T+.
I don't know. There is part of me that knows I should just wait until the dust clears and read the collected edition a year later. But then another part of me, despite the price point, sees the crazy format they are doing, and the people involved, and can't help but at least give the first issue a try while it is all happening.
Also, I am surprised it is only rated T+.
I'd listen to the part of you that remembers Dark Knight Strikes Again.
M
M
I know, I know. But I actually enjoyed DK2 more than many. And I can't help but expect (hope?) that it will all get more bonkers as it goes along.
@Matt, @bralinator and me all in agreement.
Enjoy the cold snap, damned souls!
IF I get & read this story, it'd only be the collected version, following a nice 50% Wild Pig sale.
M
Sheesh, DC... :)
Also, for the record, I've loved all aspects of the Miller Bat-Verse - including DK2 and ASB&R.
And I have heard Frank isn't doing well, medially, so I like the idea that he's working with a VERY good team for this series. For all the crap he gets on the internet, when he's on, there are very few people better and I look forward to his work whenever it comes out.
Besides, it's not like he ever put out anything as gawdawful as Crossed +100...
More speculation and history on the original, unused, title here
M.