Interesting discussion. Chris and Bill's logic is pretty solid, but it saddens me to think of a comic shop without a new book wall. Just the state of the industry these days though. I place a huge amount of the blame with Diamond and their distribution monopoly. It seems inexcusable to me that the distributor of a product make significantly more money on a product than the company and creators who produce it. The greed of Diamond angers me, not too mention they are biting the hand that feeds them. Pure idiocy.
I'm wondering where you're getting your information on how much Diamond is making. Because it is my understanding that Diamond pays publishers somewhere between 35-45% of cover price, depending on various factors (and there may be exceptions to that, but as far as I know, that's the general range). Stores pay Diamond somewhere between 45-60% of cover price, depending on the comics ordered (some titles may come with incentive discounts) and the amount of material ordered. And going by those figures, Diamond does not make significantly more money on a product than the publishers or the stores. I mean, there's a reason they had to close down their Midwest distribution center.
Now that's not to say that Diamond isn't making money. Of course, they are. And it's not to say that Diamond isn't a bad distributor. They have tons of problems compared to distributors of other industries. And on certain products, they may well make more money than the creators of that particular product. But on the whole, I don't think they’re making more money than the publishers as a whole.
Now that's not to say that Diamond isn't making money. Of course, they are. And it's not to say that Diamond isn't a bad distributor. They have tons of problems compared to distributors of other industries. And on certain products, they may well make more money than the creators of that particular product. But on the whole, I don't think they’re making more money than the publishers as a whole.
I can't say how much they make, but factor in ALL of previews. Statues, figures, books, manga, clothing . . . Especially with big ticket items. It adds up to a lot. For the service we get from them, to me it's not acceptable. But, another talk for another thread!
Now that's not to say that Diamond isn't making money. Of course, they are. And it's not to say that Diamond isn't a bad distributor. They have tons of problems compared to distributors of other industries. And on certain products, they may well make more money than the creators of that particular product. But on the whole, I don't think they’re making more money than the publishers as a whole.
I can't say how much they make, but factor in ALL of previews. Statues, figures, books, manga, clothing . . . Especially with big ticket items. It adds up to a lot. For the service we get from them, to me it's not acceptable. But, another talk for another thread!
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think they're moving a ton of those big-ticket items. There are a lot of comic stores that don't carry statues or T-shirts or even manga. I know it doesn't take too many sales for that stuff to start adding up, and that they don't buy that stuff on a non-returnable basis—which is why they don't offer discounts on that stuff as deep as they do on the comics—but that wasn't what was being discussed. We were talking about how much Diamond makes on a product versus the how much the publisher and/or creator of that product makes on that product and how much the stores make on that product.
I don't think it's fair to say that Diamond takes an overly large percentage of the pie. They're pretty much in line with distributors in other industries as far as I know. That said, I think it’s quite right to question whether or not they are performing the duties a good distributor should to a satisfactory level. I think most retailers would agree that they are not, but as you say, that is another discussion.
Agreed, I am not saying they are taking an overly large percentage - just that the percentage they take spread over the amount of products they offer adds up to a large number for them ($500 mill annually) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Comic_Distributors
From my understanding, especially with the independent books, printing takes the largest piece of the pie.
Great points, I am sure that Diamond is making a profit, otherwise they wouldn't be able to survive. Several people brought up the fact that sales are up for comics, but aren't the sales figures based on the books that comic shops ordered? It would be great to have something based on actual sales at stores to determine how many of the comics ordered by shops are actually sold, and how many remain unsold and then are sold off at heavily discounted prices.
I had a friend just the other day complain to me that they wanted to get into comics, bought a floppy issue of one of the Secret Wars tie ins and finished the whole issue in a few minutes.....which left him feeling that he had spent way too much money for so little entertainment.
I am sure it will be years before the floppy will be phased out, certainly it is still profitable and allows for the investment to print out TPBs and Hardcovers at later dates. I totally understand that prices have to increase as artists/writers should get more money than they currently earn, but there comes a point when the product just doesn't warrant the money they are charging. So, what is the point when sales will fall off dramatically.....$4.99 books? $5.99 books? $6.99? If a reader has to choose between a $5.99 book and a paperback novel......which do you suppose they would choose? I don't think that the days of mass market appeal for comics the way we saw when we were kids will come back. When I was a kid and went into a comic store, there were tons of people of all ages........Now, when I go into a store, I am hard pressed to find any kids, and mostly see my peers who grew up with comics like I did.
I still think that Wildpig made the right decision for their store.........at least paperbacks and back issues are giving them better profit margins.
Interesting discussion. Chris and Bill's logic is pretty solid, but it saddens me to think of a comic shop without a new book wall. Just the state of the industry these days though. I place a huge amount of the blame with Diamond and their distribution monopoly. It seems inexcusable to me that the distributor of a product make significantly more money on a product than the company and creators who produce it. The greed of Diamond angers me, not too mention they are biting the hand that feeds them. Pure idiocy.
I'm wondering where you're getting your information on how much Diamond is making. Because it is my understanding that Diamond pays publishers somewhere between 35-45% of cover price, depending on various factors (and there may be exceptions to that, but as far as I know, that's the general range). Stores pay Diamond somewhere between 45-60% of cover price, depending on the comics ordered (some titles may come with incentive discounts) and the amount of material ordered. And going by those figures, Diamond does not make significantly more money on a product than the publishers or the stores. I mean, there's a reason they had to close down their Midwest distribution center.
Now that's not to say that Diamond isn't making money. Of course, they are. And it's not to say that Diamond isn't a bad distributor. They have tons of problems compared to distributors of other industries. And on certain products, they may well make more money than the creators of that particular product. But on the whole, I don't think they’re making more money than the publishers as a whole.
Perhaps the numbers have changed since I last was told how much Diamond was paying publishers for the books. 35-45% is definitely higher than what I was told, but it has been several years since I had that conversation with someone in the know. If that is the case then Diamond is not as greedy as I thought, just inefficient and somewhat incompetent with their customer service.
We get about 40% of cover for our books and magazines, but those are books and magazines, not comics. Perhaps the comics get slightly less, but I think Mark Waid said it was somewhere in that range.
Kecks, my apologies for the tardy response to your post. Bill is usually at the store Wed. through Sat. I am there Wed. evening and some Friday evenings. If you know the exact day you'll be making the trek, please let me know, and I will try to be at the shop.
This is my first time posting on the forums, so in the way of a brief introduction:
Like Mr. Eberle, I am a public school teacher and comics lover/scholar. I am not, however, a comics retailer, although I am fascinated by that side of the industry. I am also an avid CGS listener/subscriber. My absolute favorite episodes are the Spotlights; the level of scholarship Chris and Murd, in particular, bring to the podcast is eminently appreciated.
In this week's Comic Talk episode, Chris and Bill discussed at length their decision to eliminate new comics from their store, which, despite their on-air disclaimer, I found riveting. I have had several conversations with my local retailer about the endurance of floppies in the market. I tend to agree with you gentlemen that they cannot last given the steep rise in prices over the last decade and a half. The publishers are producing less content for more money, and the market cannot, and frankly should not, support that business model. Trade paperbacks, in my opinion, are a less expensive option that offer a better reading experience simply by nature of the fact that one can read an entire story at once. They can be placed neatly and attractively on bookshelves, and it is a much easier pill to swallow for first-time comics readers to try something that looks and feels like and actual book rather than a stack of bagged and boarded floppies. In fact, I recently sold the bulk of my single issue collection, approximately 10,000 books, so I could reacquire many of the same stories in trade format. Now I teach with trades, I lend them to my students, colleagues, and friends, and I use them to conduct research for my doctoral studies on the effectiveness of comics in secondary education.
My retailer maintains that floppies need to exist to "test the waters" for projects from the comic book companies. For instance, Marvel may not want to invest significant money for Ryan North and Erica Henderson to write and draw, respectively, six issues of The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl for a trade paperback that may or may not strike a chord with an audience. Instead, they pay to have the single issues produced one at a time, examine the sales figures each month, and make decisions about whether to continue publishing it or cancel it. On the strength of a given book, a trade paperback or hardcover collection can be produced, and now the companies are only paying for the printing costs as they've already paid the creative talent. Ultra-successful books will see multiple printings and deluxe editions and whatnot, all while the single issues keep rolling out.
Since you, Chris and Bill, are retailers with very strong feelings about this subject, I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.
P.S. I am planning a trip from Long Island to Wild Pig Comics sometime in the next few months with a friend or two. Are there specific days/times you are there?
No, not trolling. But I'm curious about the stores in your area. Do they actually require you to preorder?
This discussion is happening because Golden Eagle is going to stop carrying new comics. They are doing so for legitimate reasons (to them) so you have to think the rest of the industry will start going in this direction to.
To answer you directly, the store closest to me will sell out of Batman and other popular titles within a couple of hours of opening on Wednesday.
But I think you are missing the point by having such a large focus on the store's perspective. You are completely missing the customer's perspective which is that buying comic books is very hard. That's all that really matters. The reasons are irrelevant; if you want to stay in business you have to make it easy for customers to buy your products.
For stores, maybe that's impossible. But for publishers it is not, especially the big ones. They don't have to stay with the preorder model but they continue to do so, to their detriment.
Corey Strode ( @SolitaireRose on the forums) just discussed this on his latest podcast and they concluded that once the shops no longer carry new comics, the customers no longer feel compelled to come by regularly. And as for surviving on back-issues, "once you've filled that run of Micronauts..." you aren't coming into the shop regularly and the shop will have to adapt/diversify or close it's doors. Maybe turn into a vintage novelties shop.
I have to admit, after I began using DCBService, I now only darken the door of my LCS when I need bags, backs, or a longbox. I may occasionally drop by if I missed something when it was solicited and I try to attend the annual FCBD. When I am out of town, I try to visit one or two local shops there. That's probably 5-6 visits a year to my LCS. As for back-issues, I have a few searches I follow on eBay for some holes I am still trying to fill, and I occasionally attend a comic convention. Back in the 80's and 90's, it was every week. And back when I dropped out of comics in 'the aughts', I might stop in a comic shop about once every two years just to pass the time and see what they had that was cool.
I agree that the rising prices of serial funny books is about to get ridiculous, and I cannot see myself ever paying retail prices again for comics $4+ only to get 1/6th of the story. Not interested. Even if every comic was a one-and-done, $4 is too much for 20 minutes of entertainment. And as for DCBService, once the discounted prices exceed my acceptable threshold (which is flexible), I guess it's hardcovers and trades and digital for me.
I do have an iPad, and I sometimes read comics on it - usually on a road trip. I input my digital codes when I get them into my Comixology account, and download some books I plan to read in case there is no wi-fi. But this device has not replaced floppies for me, yet. Like books, or even CDs, once you've acquired a lawfully-made CD or book or DVD, you can lend, sell, or give it away without having to get permission from the copyright owner. In simpler terms, "you bought it, you own it" (and because first sale also applies to gifts, "they gave it to you, you own it" is also true). Not so with DRM comics from Comixology or Marvel Unlimited.
I expect to lend these books out, sell them, trade them, or give them away one day. As of this writing, I don't see how that's as easy to do, if at all, with the current model. If you buy a digital album from an online service such as the iTunes store, Amazon MP3, etc, you have no legal right to lend that album to a friend, as you could if you had purchased a CD. If you decide after a few listens that you hate the album, you can't resell it. You can't even legally give it away. Exactly the same as an electronic comic book.
It would appear that, for now, paper books and digital are co-existing together. Paper books even started to increase in sales in 2014. A good sign. I don't see the floppy as ever going away, like horse rides, compound bows, and LPs were all eventually replaced by better technology delivery systems, they are still readily available and still being used, but they are more of a niche. How long publishers will continue to print them is another story. Maybe they will go back to pulp paper?
For anyone else interested in this topic, I recommend this excellent work "(Re)examining the attitudes of comic book store patrons in the digital era"
No, not trolling. But I'm curious about the stores in your area. Do they actually require you to preorder?
This discussion is happening because Golden Eagle is going to stop carrying new comics. They are doing so for legitimate reasons (to them) so you have to think the rest of the industry will start going in this direction to.
Wild Pig actually, not Golden Eagle. And I don't think that will be the case, at least not for the majority of shops. Actually one of my local shops has done the opposite. They have a wall for new comics, but no back issues. Whatever they have left over at the end of the month gets donated to the children's ward of the local hospital (when appropriate) or gets trashed. They thrive mostly on trades, a very nice kids' section, and a small toy section (Pop figures, Adventure Time stuff, Dr. Who stuff, etc.). It's also the cleanest, best looking shop in the area.
My shop is right across the street from a large university, and students make up a large percentage of its customers. Without new comics on the wall to draw in new walk-ins to replace graduating customers, my shop would likely be out of business within a year.
Really, it's going to vary wildly from store to store depending on the area in which they operate and their customer base.
But I think you are missing the point by having such a large focus on the store's perspective. You are completely missing the customer's perspective which is that buying comic books is very hard. That's all that really matters. The reasons are irrelevant; if you want to stay in business you have to make it easy for customers to buy your products.
I've been buying comics for 35+ years, and it has never been easier for me to buy a comic book than it is now. If I can't find what I'm looking for locally—a rarity—I can certainly find it online. And if for some reason I can't find a hard copy of what I'm looking for, or if the price for it is too high, I can buy a digital version.
In your case, your shop simply doesn't order enough copies of certain books, but that's on your shop, not on Diamond, not on the publishers. Have you ever asked your shop to reorder a book for you? Because they can, and in most cases, Diamond has the ability to fill those reorders (if those reorders are placed within a reasonable time frame) because publishers do print an overage as a rule. There was a time when Diamond wouldn't fill a reorder unless there was a certain number of books being ordered, but I think they've done away with that.
For stores, maybe that's impossible. But for publishers it is not, especially the big ones. They don't have to stay with the preorder model but they continue to do so, to their detriment.
From your other posts, I think when you say “preorder model” you are referring to stores requiring customers to preorder books, which as I've said before, is not the case at the vast majority of stores. Which is why I asked if your store actually requires you to preorder books. Again, if you have to preorder your books in order to make sure you get Batman every month, you are shopping at a poorly managed store, and there's nothing a publisher can do that will change that.
I have to second what @nweathington is saying. I can't speak to the experience of being a retailer, but as a consumer, and avid buyer of comics for more than 30 years, comics have never felt more available, and in more formats, than they do now.
I would say the only factor that factor that has not improved is price. That can be a barrier to entry. But, actually, apropos to the conversation, the option to pre-order books via DCBS and get that discount has helped to mitigate cover price for me in the last 8 years or so in ways I didn't have before that.
But if the model of having to preorder months in advance for a copy that you are then going to pay full cover price for at your shop, or else miss out on even a big, mainstream book like Batman? I have to agree that, if we are understanding you right, that sounds like a really poorly run shop.
When I started collecting in the mid 80's, I had to go to a local grocery store and get books. The selection was always inconsistent (except somehow for G.I. Joe).
Years later, I had to go to a local store. As I moved from place to place in the military, the quality and availability of the stores varied from place to place. Unless I maintained a monthly pull list, I paid full price which limited the amount of stuff I got. For three years, the closest American store was a 7 hr plane ride away.
Today (and for the last 4 years) I lay on my couch and look at a online catalog which has everything that can be ordered in it. I fill out an excel spreadsheet once a month. I get nearly everything at 50% off cover price which means I have been ordering more stuff than ever before (although rising prices, even with discounts, have started to cause me to drop some stuff). A box arrives at my mailbox once a month. There has never been any shipping issues.
It may not be good for my local shops but it has never been easier for me to purchase comic books.
To answer you directly, the store closest to me will sell out of Batman and other popular titles within a couple of hours of opening on Wednesday.
Again, if you have to preorder your books in order to make sure you get Batman every month, you are shopping at a poorly managed store, and there's nothing a publisher can do that will change that.
I will agree and disagree with the response to this. I will agree that if you can't get Batman after a couple of hours of opening - that is terrible inventory management. However, the easiest way to make sure you have your book monthly (speaking as a retailer) is to just preorder it on a pull list. You remove almost all chance of not getting it. Also, as a retailer, we don't want to order excess (Batman, of course is a title that has legs after it hits the back issue shelf) so we try to keep our margins close. We don't make money on books sitting on a recent release shelf. On top of that, ALWAYS ask your retailer to special order a book if you missed it. If they refuse to do it, without giving you the explanation that Diamond does not have it available, walk out, and never return. A good store, will do everything they can to get the books you are looking for.
To answer you directly, the store closest to me will sell out of Batman and other popular titles within a couple of hours of opening on Wednesday.
Again, if you have to preorder your books in order to make sure you get Batman every month, you are shopping at a poorly managed store, and there's nothing a publisher can do that will change that.
I will agree and disagree with the response to this. I will agree that if you can't get Batman after a couple of hours of opening - that is terrible inventory management. However, the easiest way to make sure you have your book monthly (speaking as a retailer) is to just preorder it on a pull list. You remove almost all chance of not getting it. Also, as a retailer, we don't want to order excess (Batman, of course is a title that has legs after it hits the back issue shelf) so we try to keep our margins close. We don't make money on books sitting on a recent release shelf. On top of that, ALWAYS ask your retailer to special order a book if you missed it. If they refuse to do it, without giving you the explanation that Diamond does not have it available, walk out, and never return. A good store, will do everything they can to get the books you are looking for.
Everything you say is absolutely correct, but I think mphil’s point was that potential customers should be able to walk into a store and buy whatever comic they're looking for, particularly the big sellers, without having to preorder. And I agree with that to a point. For Top 50 books like Batman or X-Men, stores should not be so afraid of over-ordering that they sell out the first week, much less the first two hours. For titles like that, my shop doesn't mind having two or three copies to put in the back issue bins when the next issue comes out, because they know they'll be able to sell those issues eventually. And quite frankly, it's just as easy to track a regular monthly off-the-rack sale of a title as it is a monthly subscriber sale of that title. It may not be as reliable a sale over the course of a year, and it may cost you a couple of issues’ worth of over-buying now and then, but that's the price of following good business practices when running a small business.
By the same token, I think it is unreasonable for a customer to walk into any store and expect to find a low-selling item in stock at all times, no matter the business. If there is a special part I need to replace on my lawnmower, I expect there's a good chance I'm going to have to place a special order to get that part. And the same goes if I walk into a store wanting to buy the latest issue of a small press indie book—I know that I'm probably going to need to special order that book.
comics have never felt more available, and in more formats, than they do now.
Sure, if you already know where to look. I'm reasonably sure there isn't a single store in my town that is selling comics. Twenty-five years ago that wasn't the case. They were in nearly every gas station, pharmacy, and grocery store. My kids are an anomaly in their school because they read comics. They tell me most kids they show them to had never even seen one before. As a long time comic reader I have no trouble finding the issues I want but I think the average consumer has a wall between them and comics(unless they know about comixology, DCBS, conventions, etc). To most people comics are anything but available.
I'm reasonably sure there isn't a single store in my town that is selling comics. Twenty-five years ago that wasn't the case. They were in nearly every gas station, pharmacy, and grocery store. My kids are an anomaly in their school because they read comics. They tell me most kids they show them to had never even seen one before. As a long time comic reader I have no trouble finding the issues I want but I think the average consumer has a wall between them and comics(unless they know about comixology, DCBS, conventions, etc). To most people comics are anything but available.
I know you're referring to impulse buyers not seeing comics in convenient locations, but if they aren't looking for them, they won't find them. However, today's internet savvy consumer can find comic shops if they really want to buy a comic.
comics have never felt more available, and in more formats, than they do now.
Sure, if you already know where to look. I'm reasonably sure there isn't a single store in my town that is selling comics. Twenty-five years ago that wasn't the case. They were in nearly every gas station, pharmacy, and grocery store. My kids are an anomaly in their school because they read comics. They tell me most kids they show them to had never even seen one before. As a long time comic reader I have no trouble finding the issues I want but I think the average consumer has a wall between them and comics(unless they know about comixology, DCBS, conventions, etc). To most people comics are anything but available.
If we are talking paper comics? Sure. That is fair. They are very available to me to buy as I know where to look. Of course, for all the 7-11s and grocery stores that don't have floppies, there are now actual graphic novel sections in libraries and school libraries. They didn't have that when I was a kid. I don't know how many times I took out the same, dog-earred copy of Bring on the Bad Guys from my local library as a kid, and I can actually remember fantasizing about comics- lots of comics- being something you could just borrow from the library. So I don't know that the availability of floppies for sale is the whole story when it comes to finding paper comics in the wild these days. Especially for young people.
And, if we aren't talking about paper comics, then I will stand by my point that comics- as a storytelling language- is much more present, available, and within reach then when I was young. Especially if we go past the idea of buying (even digitally) single issues from Marvel, DC, and Image, and get into how many more people probably read webcomics then were even buying Batman off spin racks when we were kids.
I totally take your point that single-issue, periodical comics are no longer a casual thing to find and buy, as when we were young. But I think comics, in general, if we are talking medium and not format, are much more present than when I was young.
And, for the invested person willing to put in a little time searching, even the kinds of comics I buy and read are much more widely available to me then when I used to ride my bike to the downtown newsstand and hope something new was there.
Yeah, I'll pass on a $6.80 96-page Robin book too, but I just paid $6.99 (after my discount) for the new 52-page Cursed Pirate Girl Annual, and it was worth every penny.
This book is priced at $3.99 at the comic shops, but at Barnes & Noble, it's $4.99
Could this be the new price point for DC in 2016?
I'd be surprised. DC has been doing that since at least earlier this year for their limited line of returnable comics distributed to bookstores (though not via Diamond). The Beat had some reporting on it a few months ago. I suppose it is possible that they will use those issues as a way to test the price point. But I would guess it has more to do with those bookstores justifying even having those periodicals in the store taking up shelf space-- that they either need to have a price point close enough in line with other magazines, or else they are not worth the display space.
This book is priced at $3.99 at the comic shops, but at Barnes & Noble, it's $4.99
Could this be the new price point for DC in 2016?
I'd be surprised. DC has been doing that since at least earlier this year for their limited line of returnable comics distributed to bookstores (though not via Diamond). The Beat had some reporting on it a few months ago. I suppose it is possible that they will use those issues as a way to test the price point. But I would guess it has more to do with those bookstores justifying even having those periodicals in the store taking up shelf space-- that they either need to have a price point close enough in line with other magazines, or else they are not worth the display space.
Insightful @David_D - I agree that it looks more like offsetting the cost of returnability than testing a higher price-point, but if they've been doing this for a while, it must be worth it. Surely the big two know that readers like many on these forums who have been reading for 20+ years aren't going to pay $4.99 for 20 pages in the digital age.
That article features a quote from Dan DiDio from 2011 that rings very true:
“The truth is people are leaving (comics) anyway, they’re just doing it quietly, and we have been papering it over with increased prices,” DiDio said. “We didn’t want to wake up one day and find we had a bunch of $20 books that 10,000 people are buying.”
Seems like several publishers are still “papering over” the reality of their shrinking audience with higher prices. Even a regular paperback novels now sells for $16-$18. Comics and other small-item entertainment products require an abundance of units sold in order to make a profit. So when I see Image putting out a tpb collecting 5 issues for the same price as 2 Batman comics, I'm changing my reading/buying habits. I'd prefer to pay a premium price for a valuable product like Omnibuses or Artist Editions. Maybe the way to move more floppies is if publishers revert to newsprint again and drop the prices accordingly.
Trade paperback, which almost 15 years ago when I was a bookseller was $10-$14, now being that almost makes sense, due to inflation, but also the state of the declining market. It would be ridiculous if you were talking about a mass market paperback, which used to be $5-$7. I haven't bought a brand new novel for a few years.
Comments
Now that's not to say that Diamond isn't making money. Of course, they are. And it's not to say that Diamond isn't a bad distributor. They have tons of problems compared to distributors of other industries. And on certain products, they may well make more money than the creators of that particular product. But on the whole, I don't think they’re making more money than the publishers as a whole.
I don't think it's fair to say that Diamond takes an overly large percentage of the pie. They're pretty much in line with distributors in other industries as far as I know. That said, I think it’s quite right to question whether or not they are performing the duties a good distributor should to a satisfactory level. I think most retailers would agree that they are not, but as you say, that is another discussion.
From my understanding, especially with the independent books, printing takes the largest piece of the pie.
I had a friend just the other day complain to me that they wanted to get into comics, bought a floppy issue of one of the Secret Wars tie ins and finished the whole issue in a few minutes.....which left him feeling that he had spent way too much money for so little entertainment.
I am sure it will be years before the floppy will be phased out, certainly it is still profitable and allows for the investment to print out TPBs and Hardcovers at later dates. I totally understand that prices have to increase as artists/writers should get more money than they currently earn, but there comes a point when the product just doesn't warrant the money they are charging. So, what is the point when sales will fall off dramatically.....$4.99 books? $5.99 books? $6.99? If a reader has to choose between a $5.99 book and a paperback novel......which do you suppose they would choose? I don't think that the days of mass market appeal for comics the way we saw when we were kids will come back. When I was a kid and went into a comic store, there were tons of people of all ages........Now, when I go into a store, I am hard pressed to find any kids, and mostly see my peers who grew up with comics like I did.
I still think that Wildpig made the right decision for their store.........at least paperbacks and back issues are giving them better profit margins.
Thanks for the post!
Best,
Chris, WP
To answer you directly, the store closest to me will sell out of Batman and other popular titles within a couple of hours of opening on Wednesday.
But I think you are missing the point by having such a large focus on the store's perspective. You are completely missing the customer's perspective which is that buying comic books is very hard. That's all that really matters. The reasons are irrelevant; if you want to stay in business you have to make it easy for customers to buy your products.
For stores, maybe that's impossible. But for publishers it is not, especially the big ones. They don't have to stay with the preorder model but they continue to do so, to their detriment.
I have to admit, after I began using DCBService, I now only darken the door of my LCS when I need bags, backs, or a longbox. I may occasionally drop by if I missed something when it was solicited and I try to attend the annual FCBD. When I am out of town, I try to visit one or two local shops there. That's probably 5-6 visits a year to my LCS. As for back-issues, I have a few searches I follow on eBay for some holes I am still trying to fill, and I occasionally attend a comic convention. Back in the 80's and 90's, it was every week. And back when I dropped out of comics in 'the aughts', I might stop in a comic shop about once every two years just to pass the time and see what they had that was cool.
I agree that the rising prices of serial funny books is about to get ridiculous, and I cannot see myself ever paying retail prices again for comics $4+ only to get 1/6th of the story. Not interested. Even if every comic was a one-and-done, $4 is too much for 20 minutes of entertainment. And as for DCBService, once the discounted prices exceed my acceptable threshold (which is flexible), I guess it's hardcovers and trades and digital for me.
I do have an iPad, and I sometimes read comics on it - usually on a road trip. I input my digital codes when I get them into my Comixology account, and download some books I plan to read in case there is no wi-fi. But this device has not replaced floppies for me, yet. Like books, or even CDs, once you've acquired a lawfully-made CD or book or DVD, you can lend, sell, or give it away without having to get permission from the copyright owner. In simpler terms, "you bought it, you own it" (and because first sale also applies to gifts, "they gave it to you, you own it" is also true). Not so with DRM comics from Comixology or Marvel Unlimited.
I expect to lend these books out, sell them, trade them, or give them away one day. As of this writing, I don't see how that's as easy to do, if at all, with the current model. If you buy a digital album from an online service such as the iTunes store, Amazon MP3, etc, you have no legal right to lend that album to a friend, as you could if you had purchased a CD. If you decide after a few listens that you hate the album, you can't resell it. You can't even legally give it away. Exactly the same as an electronic comic book.
It would appear that, for now, paper books and digital are co-existing together. Paper books even started to increase in sales in 2014. A good sign. I don't see the floppy as ever going away, like horse rides, compound bows, and LPs were all eventually replaced by better technology delivery systems, they are still readily available and still being used, but they are more of a niche. How long publishers will continue to print them is another story. Maybe they will go back to pulp paper?
For anyone else interested in this topic, I recommend this excellent work "(Re)examining the attitudes of comic book store patrons in the digital era"
My shop is right across the street from a large university, and students make up a large percentage of its customers. Without new comics on the wall to draw in new walk-ins to replace graduating customers, my shop would likely be out of business within a year.
Really, it's going to vary wildly from store to store depending on the area in which they operate and their customer base. Then you have a poorly run shop. You have my sympathies. I've been buying comics for 35+ years, and it has never been easier for me to buy a comic book than it is now. If I can't find what I'm looking for locally—a rarity—I can certainly find it online. And if for some reason I can't find a hard copy of what I'm looking for, or if the price for it is too high, I can buy a digital version.
In your case, your shop simply doesn't order enough copies of certain books, but that's on your shop, not on Diamond, not on the publishers. Have you ever asked your shop to reorder a book for you? Because they can, and in most cases, Diamond has the ability to fill those reorders (if those reorders are placed within a reasonable time frame) because publishers do print an overage as a rule. There was a time when Diamond wouldn't fill a reorder unless there was a certain number of books being ordered, but I think they've done away with that. From your other posts, I think when you say “preorder model” you are referring to stores requiring customers to preorder books, which as I've said before, is not the case at the vast majority of stores. Which is why I asked if your store actually requires you to preorder books. Again, if you have to preorder your books in order to make sure you get Batman every month, you are shopping at a poorly managed store, and there's nothing a publisher can do that will change that.
I would say the only factor that factor that has not improved is price. That can be a barrier to entry. But, actually, apropos to the conversation, the option to pre-order books via DCBS and get that discount has helped to mitigate cover price for me in the last 8 years or so in ways I didn't have before that.
But if the model of having to preorder months in advance for a copy that you are then going to pay full cover price for at your shop, or else miss out on even a big, mainstream book like Batman? I have to agree that, if we are understanding you right, that sounds like a really poorly run shop.
Years later, I had to go to a local store. As I moved from place to place in the military, the quality and availability of the stores varied from place to place. Unless I maintained a monthly pull list, I paid full price which limited the amount of stuff I got. For three years, the closest American store was a 7 hr plane ride away.
Today (and for the last 4 years) I lay on my couch and look at a online catalog which has everything that can be ordered in it. I fill out an excel spreadsheet once a month. I get nearly everything at 50% off cover price which means I have been ordering more stuff than ever before (although rising prices, even with discounts, have started to cause me to drop some stuff). A box arrives at my mailbox once a month. There has never been any shipping issues.
It may not be good for my local shops but it has never been easier for me to purchase comic books.
By the same token, I think it is unreasonable for a customer to walk into any store and expect to find a low-selling item in stock at all times, no matter the business. If there is a special part I need to replace on my lawnmower, I expect there's a good chance I'm going to have to place a special order to get that part. And the same goes if I walk into a store wanting to buy the latest issue of a small press indie book—I know that I'm probably going to need to special order that book.
Just enter your zip code:
http://comicbookrealm.com/lcs
http://www.comicshoplocator.com/Home/1/1/57/575
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=csl
Comics are super easy to find now. There are very few books you cannot find with a single click.
And, if we aren't talking about paper comics, then I will stand by my point that comics- as a storytelling language- is much more present, available, and within reach then when I was young. Especially if we go past the idea of buying (even digitally) single issues from Marvel, DC, and Image, and get into how many more people probably read webcomics then were even buying Batman off spin racks when we were kids.
I totally take your point that single-issue, periodical comics are no longer a casual thing to find and buy, as when we were young. But I think comics, in general, if we are talking medium and not format, are much more present than when I was young.
And, for the invested person willing to put in a little time searching, even the kinds of comics I buy and read are much more widely available to me then when I used to ride my bike to the downtown newsstand and hope something new was there.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/09/26/there-are-3-6-more-comic-book-stores-in-2015-than-in-2014/
DC COMICS PRESENTS: ROBIN WAR 100-PAGE SUPER SPECTACULAR #1 96 pg, $7.99
DC COMICS PRESENTS: DARKSEID WAR 100-PAGE SUPER SPECTACULAR #1 96 pg, $7.99
Even with a 50% discount, these are a full $4. Do they even have a free digital code or anything? No thanks, DC.
Pass.
Could this be the new price point for DC in 2016?
That article features a quote from Dan DiDio from 2011 that rings very true: Seems like several publishers are still “papering over” the reality of their shrinking audience with higher prices. Even a regular paperback novels now sells for $16-$18. Comics and other small-item entertainment products require an abundance of units sold in order to make a profit. So when I see Image putting out a tpb collecting 5 issues for the same price as 2 Batman comics, I'm changing my reading/buying habits. I'd prefer to pay a premium price for a valuable product like Omnibuses or Artist Editions. Maybe the way to move more floppies is if publishers revert to newsprint again and drop the prices accordingly.
I haven't bought a brand new novel for a few years.